Lost Season 4 Discussion - Because You Left

Spoiler for those who haven't seen "Ji Yeon" yet:
I really have to wonder what happened to Walt and how he and his father apparently got separated again. Did Walt willfully leave? Did he 'displace' himself back onto the island? He's most likely still alive, because the preview for next week's episode seems to indicate that Ben still has Michael wrapped around his finger, playing his paternal instincts and desperation against him. I'm also afraid that this will be the episode where 'future Ben's' reminder to Sayid about "Remember what happened the last time you thought with your heart and not your gun?" will be made clear.

I also found the fishing conversation very telling, as I think it's pretty clear now that Locke and Ben are squarely in the "dark" camp, even if everyone in Locke's camp is not necessarily so. Bernard labeling those who stayed with Jack the "good guys" seems a lot 'truer' than Ben's perversion of the phrase.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']
Jack
Kate
Sayid
Hurley
Aaron
Sun

that is six people
[/QUOTE]

Your fifth one doesn't count since he would not be considered part of the flight. There is one more person that survives.
 
[quote name='fart_bubble']I hope in the morning someone puts up a shot of what Sun was watching before she started to go into labour[/quote]

Click here for a screenshot. It's a
character from the past
.

Also, for anyone who's curious: screenshots of
Jin's headstone
are here.
 
[quote name='munch']
Your fifth one doesn't count since he would not be considered part of the flight. There is one more person that survives.
[/quote]

how do you know?
 
[quote name='slidecage']got to wonder now if Jack said is true


6 people lived and 2 people died in the crash. and now we know who was in the coffin[/quote]


your timeline is wrong.
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']
Who says he's dead, if the thing says 9-22-04 then he could still be trapped on the island, and had to stay behind.
[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Sun and Hurley never actually acknowledge that Jin is dead- they just talk to a headstone. There are obviously people from the flight being held captive somewhere, as hinted at in almost every flash forward, and I believe that Jin is one of those people. Talking to the headstone could just be some kind of comfort mechanism that Sun uses to ease the pain of being away from him.
 
[quote name='becuzimbrown']ok thanks, but what did the Captain tell Sayid and Desmond about Ben and the plane crash/black box? i missed that part.[/quote]

can someone please answer this question?
 
[quote name='becuzimbrown']can someone please answer this question?[/quote]

Yes.

He acknowledged that the 815 crash that was recovered was in fact an elaborately staged hoax to throw off the public. He also questioned who would be sinister enough, or capable enough, to scrounge up 245 bodies to fill the seats of on the plane. He says, "That's why we're going after Benjamin Linus." Apparently, Ben (or the people he works for) have deep pockets and will stop at nothing to get what they want.
 
[quote name='jaso']Yes.

He acknowledged that the 815 crash that was recovered was in fact an elaborately staged hoax to throw off the public. He also questioned who would be sinister enough, or capable enough, to scrounge up 245 bodies to fill the seats of on the plane. He says, "That's why we're going after Benjamin Linus." Apparently, Ben (or the people he works for) have deep pockets and will stop at nothing to get what they want.
[/quote]

wow, thanks!
 
[quote name='becuzimbrown']can someone please answer this question?[/quote]

I didn't watch the whole thing but he said something about ben
covering up the death of 324 people on the plane. They want to know how he came up with the dead bodies or something...
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']I didn't watch the whole thing but he said something about ben
covering up the death of 324 people on the plane. They want to know how he came up with the dead bodies or something...
[/quote]


do we really need to spoiler mark everything that already happened on the show? I mean, if it's something that you heard somewhere about what will happen next then that's a spoiler, but you shouldn't be reading a discussion thread if you aren't up to date!

just my .02
 
[quote name='Vertigo']do we really need to spoiler mark everything that already happened on the show? I mean, if it's something that you heard somewhere about what will happen next then that's a spoiler, but you shouldn't be reading a discussion thread if you aren't up to date!

just my .02[/quote]


:whistle2:$
 
[quote name='Vertigo']do we really need to spoiler mark everything that already happened on the show? I mean, if it's something that you heard somewhere about what will happen next then that's a spoiler, but you shouldn't be reading a discussion thread if you aren't up to date!

just my .02[/quote]

I do it as a courtesy to fellow CAGs. It only takes a second to add spoiler tags to your post and the same goes for clicking/reading a spoiler tag.
 
pretty good episode...I like the more direct approach to the story arc of this season, rather then a ton of filler episodes
 
I'm not convinced Jin is dead. I have a feeling he had to sacrifice his place in the boat/helicopter or whatever it is that rescues the Oceanic Six. He's probably on the island yet. Why would the tombstone have a date of 9/22/04 when if he died it clearly would've been 12/25/04 at the earliest. That date was probably symbolic of the plane crash to convince others that the survivors are indeed dead .. which is keeping in line with Jack's story in the court room.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']
Jack
Kate
Sayid
Hurley
Aaron
Sun

that is six people
[/quote]

I'm not sure Aaron is considered one of the six. He wasnt alive when the plane crashed. Unless there was another baby on board and he was given that other baby's identity.


[quote name='Vertigo']do we really need to spoiler mark everything that already happened on the show? I mean, if it's something that you heard somewhere about what will happen next then that's a spoiler, but you shouldn't be reading a discussion thread if you aren't up to date!

just my .02[/quote]

You are absolutley correct. As I said before, anyone that comes into a discussion thread before seeing the latest episode has no right to complain if their shit gets spoiled.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']I'm not convinced Jin is dead. I have a feeling he had to sacrifice his place in the boat/helicopter or whatever it is that rescues the Oceanic Six. He's probably on the island yet. Why would the tombstone have a date of 9/22/04 when if he died it clearly would've been 12/25/04 at the earliest. That date was probably symbolic of the plane crash to convince others that the survivors are indeed dead .. which is keeping in line with Jack's story in the court room.[/quote]

My only thoughts is that Sun seemed WAY too emotional for it to just be that he was left on the island. I'm hopeful he's not dead, but I can't help but think that things aren't looking good for Jin.
 
Yesterday's episode was the only time I've noticed that Sun uses her Chinese accent to sound nicer...when she was looking for the prenatals in Juliet's tent, and Juliet caught her she tried to play it off by using her accent and then she just dropped it and said "give me the pills!" it was pretty funny/cool, but I think that was the first time I noticed that she switches accents to change the tone/mood of her voice.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']your timeline is wrong.[/QUOTE]

some have said that a large magnetic force can rip holes in time and space. So who really knows if we keep leaping forward and back. The island could be making time skip like this

so it could just be a basic flow of time
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Yesterday's episode was the only time I've noticed that Sun uses her Chinese accent to sound nicer...when she was looking for the prenatals in Juliet's tent, and Juliet caught her she tried to play it off by using her accent and then she just dropped it and said "give me the pills!" it was pretty funny/cool, but I think that was the first time I noticed that she switches accents to change the tone/mood of her voice.[/quote]


she isn't chinese...she is korean...so it would be a korean accent

other tibids..jin is also korean, but he didn't speak any asian language..he had to learn it for the show.


In regards to who the father of Sun's baby. If the time on the island is really that messed up compared to life off of the island...isn't it possible that she lived on the island for what they believe was 10 or so months..and that sun had what she believe was a 8 month old baby. So she would think she conceived the baby on the island. But if you use the helicopter returning to the ship as a point of referene. For every 1 day of life off the island, the islanders lived what they thought was 3 days. So in theory the baby could potentially not be fathered by jin
 
[quote name='ryanbph']she isn't chinese...she is korean...so it would be a korean accent

other tibids..jin is also korean, but he didn't speak any asian language..he had to learn it for the show.


In regards to who the father of Sun's baby. If the time on the island is really that messed up compared to life off of the island...isn't it possible that she lived on the island for what they believe was 10 or so months..and that sun had what she believe was a 8 month old baby. So she would think she conceived the baby on the island. But if you use the helicopter returning to the ship as a point of referene. For every 1 day of life off the island, the islanders lived what they thought was 3 days. So in theory the baby could potentially not be fathered by jin[/quote]

Aren't they Chinese in the show though?

That's an interesting theory.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']

other tibids..jin is also korean, but he didn't speak any asian language..he had to learn it for the show.
[/quote]

I wish he learned an English accent too, he speaks like a caveman in English
 
[quote name='humidore']I wish he learned an English accent too, he speaks like a caveman in English[/quote]

He's speaks very good fluent English with no sign of an accent....he used to be on Angel...I was shocked once I heard him speak on Lost...it was weird.
 
He was a doctor on Seinfeld too. He was in that episode where Kramer and Mickey take acting jobs as sick people for a training program at a hospital.
 
he was also on 24 for a season...he was agent tom bake...day 2 he did a couple of episodes as a guy on the swat like force...day three he was the head of the strike force thing that would back jack up..he died IIRC in a car explosion...he also did voice over for the 24 video game...I had to look up on imdb about the video game...but I remeber watching 24 the season he was on it around the time lost was out and saying holy shit that is jin.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']he was also on 24 for a season...he was the head of the strike force or something liked that as agent tom baker...he also did voice over for the 24 video game...I had to look up on imdb about the video game...but I remeber watching 24 the season he was on it around the time lost was out and saying holy shit that is jin.[/quote]

That's right...I remember seeing him in 24. I have the game but haven't played it yet.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']He's speaks very good fluent English with no sign of an accent....he used to be on Angel...I was shocked once I heard him speak on Lost...it was weird.[/quote]

Sorry, I meant I wish his English as a second language accent was more convincing.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']That's right...I remember seeing him in 24. I have the game but haven't played it yet.[/quote]


qft
 
i dont think jin is dead, he must be on the island with everyone else. the date on his tombstone was the date of the crash.

despite the captain saying that ben is behind the hoax of flight 815, im leaning towards that being a lie and the people that widmore are involved with are behind the hoax. after all, we saw a flash forward of sayid working for ben, why would sayid work for ben if ben actually did at that? or if hes really that "sinister"?
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']
i dont think jin is dead, he must be on the island with everyone else. the date on his tombstone was the date of the crash.

despite the captain saying that ben is behind the hoax of flight 815, im leaning towards that being a lie and the people that widmore are involved with are behind the hoax. after all, we saw a flash forward of sayid working for ben, why would sayid work for ben if ben actually did at that? or if hes really that "sinister"?
[/quote]

No way i'm going to spoiler speculation

Maybe Ben faked the crash to protect the islands identity because nobody would then search for the real crash because they found the fake one. Bens just trying to cover his ass. I don't think Charles would fake the crash because he has nothing to gain from it.
 
They said Ben was responsible for the bodies. Not the hoax. I'm not convinced Ben has that much money (only Widmore does, with his insanely expensive whiskey and yachts) or manpower. Those bodies could have just been a longterm collection of Ben's spies that Widmore caught. They showed one being captured and another was spotted filming the capture. It was probably Widmore's people that "found" the plane too.
 
[quote name='karsh']My only thoughts is that Sun seemed WAY too emotional for it to just be that he was left on the island. I'm hopeful he's not dead, but I can't help but think that things aren't looking good for Jin.[/QUOTE]

I'll say it again. I'm almost positive that she's just using the headstone to talk to as a comfort device. The show's all about deception, and they never actually showed/explained/even claimed his death. They only implied it- and we've seen where that has gotten us in the past.

Sun was really emotional, but then how would you feel if you were separated from your husband during the birth of your first child and not knowing if you'd ever see him again (assuming he's being held hostage). She may as well have a dead husband if that truly is the situation.
 
You are absolutley correct. As I said before, anyone that comes into a discussion thread before seeing the latest episode has no right to complain if their shit gets spoiled.

The rules were established upfront, and on top of that, people have these things called "lives" and "DVRs". Maybe it can be modified after the hiatus or for the Season Five thread. Maybe just make it a 48-hour post-airing spoiler tag.
Is it really that difficult to click on one of these?

P.S. I do think people should preface each spoiler with a designation about whether it contains current episode information, speculation derived from the teaser for the next episode, or actual information gathered from elsewhere about what actually happens in an upcoming episode. When one's post is just the "Spoiler" button and nothing to qualify it, I'm afraid to click on it, given the carelessness or devious nature of so many in the Internet realm.

EDIT: They said Ben was responsible for the bodies.

From "Ji Yeon":
"DON'T TRUST THE CAPTAIN." I really think the survivors are caught in a war between two very rotten men, one being very manipulative and kind of tragic, the other being very powerful and remorseless.
 
jollydwarf, you're probably right. Anything the captain said should be disregarded. But going with my theory, perhaps Ben is responsible for the death of the people on the mock-up plane (if they were his captured spies) but the captain's lie is probably in implying Ben actually killed those people. Sorta a half-truth.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']
i dont think jin is dead, he must be on the island with everyone else. the date on his tombstone was the date of the crash.

despite the captain saying that ben is behind the hoax of flight 815, im leaning towards that being a lie and the people that widmore are involved with are behind the hoax. after all, we saw a flash forward of sayid working for ben, why would sayid work for ben if ben actually did at that? or if hes really that "sinister"?
[/quote]

it is very possible jin is alive...but to play devils advocate...maybe in an upcoming battle between locke and the ship people, jin dies...if the oceanic 6 were living this huge elaborate lie, why wouldn't they coverup jin death and have the death date as the date the plane crashed to keep up there lie...another possiblity, maybe everyone that was left behind was killed...ben is no longer on the island, and it isn't like he hasn't done mass killing before.
 
About Jin
Only thing is in the final scene Hurley isn't sad. You'd think after Charlie, Hurley would tear up at another dead friend. Sun is simply crying because the father of her child wasn't there for its birth. Jin's alive. Remember Jack lied outright in court that all of them besides the Oceanic Six died. Because of some unexplained reason they can't make it known there's still crash survivors on that island.
 
ryan & crunch

you both have good points. its entirely possible that jin did die and the tombstone is just part of the overall cover up.

and its also possible that jin is alive and why hurley didnt seem nearly as upset as sun did.

the bottom line is, this is why we watch the show.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']You are absolutley correct. As I said before, anyone that comes into a discussion thread before seeing the latest episode has no right to complain if their shit gets spoiled.

The rules were established upfront, and on top of that, people have these things called "lives" and "DVRs". Maybe it can be modified after the hiatus or for the Season Five thread. Maybe just make it a 48-hour post-airing spoiler tag.
Is it really that difficult to click on one of these?
[/quote]

Exactly. I dont get to watch Lost until Friday night at the earliest. Do you think I come in to this thread on Friday morning to read the newest posts hoping nothing gets spoiled for me. And what if everyone would use a spoiler tag .. there'd be nothing for me to read anyway cause I'd think "uh oh .. dont want to click on that until I see the new show" and I wouldnt read anything anyway. And it's not about the energy it takes to click a spoiler button .. it's the principle of using them. It's retarded for a discussion thread with episodic content like this.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']About Jin only thing is in the final scene Hurley isn't sad. You'd think after Charlie, Hurley would tear up at another dead friend. Sun is simply crying because the father of her child wasn't there for its birth. Jin's alive. Remember Jack lied outright in court that all of them besides the Oceanic Six died. Because of some unexplained reason they can't make it known there's still crash survivors on that island.[/quote]

That is a good point. I wonder though, why did Hurley go all the way to where Sun lives (Hawaii?) to visit his grave. And why was he happy when she said nobody else came?
 
[quote name='Maklershed']That is a good point. I wonder though, why did Hurley go all the way to where Sun lives (Hawaii?) to visit his grave. And why was he happy when she said nobody else came?[/QUOTE]

I think he's happy because he's really uncomfortable with the way all of the shit went down. His conversation with Jack on the basketball court left me with that impression.

I kind of think Jin is dead. Hopefully we'll find out this season.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']That is a good point. I wonder though, why did Hurley go all the way to where Sun lives (Hawaii?) to visit his grave. And why was he happy when she said nobody else came?[/QUOTE]

just because youre a little priss about spoiler tags doesnt mean you have to go out of your way to remove other peoples spoiler tags when you quote them.
 
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