Madden 12 Official CAG League - On official hiatus until Madden 13.

[quote name='Tanabeo']You would have just put up another 5 min drive and won. It was in OT so I went for it if I didnt get it you win if I would have punted it you would have won.[/QUOTE]

thats bullshit...punt the ball and play defense. you didnt convert your third down, live with it and punt the ball. it says it right on the main page play fair and play like an nfl coach would. no nfl coach would go for it in that situation, 7 yards is out of the question. there really is no debate here in my opinion.
 
Just had a fun snow game with Deuce. We were tied or within one score of each other for the whole game. He stopped me three times at the goal line to prevent a game winning TD when I was down by 3 as time ticked off the clock, forcing me to kick a field goal and tie it at 24. I then won the coin toss in OT and scored a TD a minute or so in to win it.

Green Bay Packers 30, San Francisco 49ers 24 (OT)

Good game, Deuce. Hope you're not too pissed about how it ended.
 
49ers lose to the Packers.... as usual, Aaron Rodgers can't throw an INT... my corners had so many dropped picks.... i swear if it wasn't the fuckin Packers...
 
I throw a lot of picks, usually. I attributed those drops to the weather conditions, but you should have had a couple picks. I dropped one or two myself.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Good game, Deuce. Hope you're not too pissed about how it ended.[/QUOTE]

i'm upset that the stats show i dominated the game but i lost cuz of bonehead turnovers that gave u scores. the fumbled punt was cuz i ain't have the control in my hand... not paying attention, i didn't realize u had already punted and before i could call fair catch, the ball was coming down. the int was good defense... i'm kicking myself cuz i knew u were sitting in a zone and threw it anyway. i just needed one of the many dropped ints to balance it all out and couldn't get it. GG tho
 
Pats beat the Jets 17-7 in what was a grueling ground-and-pound game for both teams.

Dinner's on the table, I'll have a write-up later. GG n8!
 
New England Patriots 17 - New York Jets 7

The Jets visited the Patriots and fought hard, playing a game which was competitive right up until the end. It was a very grind-it-out game, with the Patriots having only 4 offensive possessions (including the final one to kill the clock) and the Jets having only 3.

The Patriots took the opening kickoff and put together a long methodical drive down the field which took up most of the 1st quarter, culminating in a 6-yard pass from McCoy to Scaife.

The Jets responded on their own drive when Jahvid Best got behind the defense on a 3rd-and-short for a 46 yard TD run. The Patriots used up the rest of the half, finally settling for a 31-yard field goal as time expired to give themselves a 10-7 halftime lead.

The Jets were forced to punt on their first series of the second half, and the Patriots added some insurance when McCoy found Gronk for a 5-yard score.

The Jets drove the ball well again in the 4th quarter, moving it all the way down the field until Cornel Patrick intercepted Sanchez at the goal line just under the 2-minute warning. After gaining one first down, the Patriots were able to kneel out the clock and sealing the win.

Colt McCoy bounced back well from two straight off games by being perfect on his limited attempts - 8 of 8 for 80 yards and 2 TD.

Sanchez was 5 of 8 for 58 yards, 0 TDs and 1 INT.

Cobie Ross was solid but unspectacular, carrying 18 times for 90 yards, though he failed to find the endzone for the first time all season.

Best had similar numbers, carrying 19 times for 90 yards, but did have the long TD.

Gronk lead the Pats with 3 catches for 34 yards, and he and Scaife had the TDs.

Holmes lead the Jets with 2 catches for 23.

No sacks for either team, the lone defensive stat of note was Cornel Patrick's game-sealing INT.

---
gg n8! Games like this where both sides grind it out and there aren't too many big plays are some of my favorites, I really enjoy the strategy they require from both sides.

Pats move to 11-0 and, more importantly, have clinched their 4th straight AFC East title! Games with the Bengals and Bills the next two weeks lead into the Pats' brutal Chiefs-Texans-Falcons home stretch.
 
Still looking for someone to sub for the eagles - doesn't have to be exact 3/7 record.. but i'd like it to be somewhat close.
 
[quote name='Deuce20602']i'm upset that the stats show i dominated the game but i lost cuz of bonehead turnovers that gave u scores. the fumbled punt was cuz i ain't have the control in my hand... not paying attention, i didn't realize u had already punted and before i could call fair catch, the ball was coming down. the int was good defense... i'm kicking myself cuz i knew u were sitting in a zone and threw it anyway. i just needed one of the many dropped ints to balance it all out and couldn't get it. GG tho[/QUOTE]

the balls still in ur court for that 2nd seed
 
[quote name='Superstar']Still looking for someone to sub for the eagles - doesn't have to be exact 3/7 record.. but i'd like it to be somewhat close.[/QUOTE]

i can see if my step bro can play u tonight if u want?
 
[quote name='itlnstln']I can be the eagles tomorrow at 6:30-7pmEST. Let me know via PM.[/QUOTE]

7PM eastern sounds good tomorrow - thanks!
 
[quote name='bvharris']gg n8! Games like this where both sides grind it out and there aren't too many big plays are some of my favorites, I really enjoy the strategy they require from both sides.

Pats move to 11-0 and, more importantly, have clinched their 4th straight AFC East title! Games with the Bengals and Bills the next two weeks lead into the Pats' brutal Chiefs-Texans-Falcons home stretch.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it was a good game. If Sanchez knew how to throw to the inside when his receiver has a defender on his back, the score would have looked a lot better. Oh well.

Since it's been a few weeks since I've caused any controversy, I just want to offer up a couple ideas for Madden 13, haha. No surprise, they both relate to BV, but after all...he is the Patriots. The first is just going against the idea of honoring real life trades. I realize that some teams trade players for draft picks, and if teams didn't get those picks it would be like they "gave" the player away. But this is Madden. And the teams are the teams. It just seems odd starting a league and having one team owe another team before things even get started. At least if everybody had all their picks, it would feel like everyone had an equal chance at building their roster. A few people had problems with the trades that BV was able to make due to the resources he had that most other teams didn't. Maybe this could help with that?

The other issue is the running the LB around before the snap thing. I know BV says he does it to help his timing, but it's hard to really know how it affects the AI offensive lineman. There were times when I felt like they did ok (ie. he ran into them), and other times where I felt like he was past them before they got out of their stance. I know this has been looked into, and some people made the argument in relation to sacks. But tackles for loss would be the real area of concern. Don't get me wrong. This isn't the reason he won. He outplayed me, and I had a hard time stopping his offense. But it makes me wonder if EVERYBODY was doing it, would we all see the same results?

Just some thoughts I had. Mostly because I feel like BV hasn't gotten enough attention lately, lol ;)
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']The first is just going against the idea of honoring real life trades. I realize that some teams trade players for draft picks, and if teams didn't get those picks it would be like they "gave" the player away. But this is Madden. And the teams are the teams. It just seems odd starting a league and having one team owe another team before things even get started. At least if everybody had all their picks, it would feel like everyone had an equal chance at building their roster. A few people had problems with the trades that BV was able to make due to the resources he had that most other teams didn't. Maybe this could help with that?[/QUOTE]

Suggestion noted, but I see no reason to change that. It's worked well for us the last few seasons, and we're going to most likely continue doing it. It only typically affects the first draft we do anyway.

The only team which will be seriously behind the eight-ball as of now is the Redskins, but whoever takes them will know that going in (and will have RGIII for their trouble).

[quote name='n8rockerasu']
The other issue is the running the LB around before the snap thing. I know BV says he does it to help his timing, but it's hard to really know how it affects the AI offensive lineman. [/QUOTE]

It doesn't. The reason my linebackers get tackles for loss is that I manually blitz them, plenty of other people who have a similar style of play are also strong against the run. As you likely saw on the Best touchdown, me manually blitzing a linebacker can leave gaps in the defense which leave me susceptible to the big run, so it's not like it's an unstoppable strategy.

As I've said before, if anybody could provide anything which demonstrates an advantage gained by doing that, I'd gladly stop doing it.

Edit: It's also worth noting that all of my linebackers are fast (Wake is the slowest of my starters at 84 speed). I've specifically built my defense towards getting into the backfield against the run.
 
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[quote name='Tanabeo']Thats me:wave:[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what you think you're demonstrating by drawing attention to the fact that you did something everybody seemed to agree was not in the spirit of the league (shit, BSETI and I agreed, maybe a first). You won the game, you got your strike, just let it go.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']If Sanchez knew how to throw to the inside when his receiver has a defender on his back, the score would have looked a lot better.
[/QUOTE]

Unrelated to your other points, but if you don't already do it I'd suggest practicing aiming your passes. A lot of people don't realize that you can lead receivers by pressing the D-pad in the direction they're moving as you pass (you can also throw low or high using this method). You don't need to hammer it hard, even a subtle press can make a difference in getting the ball an extra yard or so outside. Granted, that can be pretty dicey with less accurate QBs, but looking at Sanchez's in-game ratings it looks like he probably has enough short and mid range accuracy that you could have some success with it. It definitely requires hanging in the pocket, but from what I saw you seem to do that anyway.

Just a suggestion, but I've found it can really make a difference when it comes to improving QB accuracy.
 
I think initially I was on board with honoring the real-life trades (in respects to one team owing another a draft pick), but I'm fairly strongly against it now. I agree it sucks that someone would have to take over a team without a first rounder in the next draft because of something they had no control over...especially if that person was given the team rather than him having chosen the team himself.

Let's look at the 2 most notable trades involving draft picks in recent years:
1) The recent Rams/Redskins trade for the Redskins moving up from pick 6 to pick 2.
2) The Oakland Raiders trade for Palmer giving up 2 1sts or a 1st/2nd (whatever it was).

From a Madden perspective...if we just strike out the rule about honoring those trades in our league, would the Rams and Bengals really be at that much of a disadvantage by it? Going from pick 2 to pick 6 is hardly a significant drop...whoever they get at pick 6 is gonna be a Madden stud no doubt. And Palmer is a pretty decent QB but no where near worth all those damn picks they gave up. A lot of Raiders owners would probably start Pryor over Palmer in Madden anyways, given Pryor's speed and pretty solid accuracy attributes. So by honoring these real-life trades, the Raiders/Redskins would be 10 times more disadvantaged than the Rams/Bengals would be if we didn't honor the trades. There's no perfect solution here but I'm gonna take the lesser of two evils. We need to give everyone a clean slate in Madden...give them control of their own team in every regard.

And as far as BV's whole LB shifting thing....I know we've discussed this over and over again, but personally, the major reason I dismissed that technique as being exploitative or whatever was because it was obvious BV wasn't accumulating many TFL or sacks with the LBs he was usering in the past, so it appeared that technique wasn't giving him much of an advantage. That being said...it would appear that particular argument has no merit anymore based on this season. As I remember from my game with BV...I'm pretty sure he users Carswell for the majority of the game, who this season has 44 tackles, 26 TFL, 10 sacks, 2 safeties. I know Carswell is pretty darn fast but BV has always had fast LBs so I don't think we can attribute this new-found production to just the player himself. This whole thing is just one big slippery slope though...no one is gonna be able to prove anything one way or another. From my game with BV, it was obvious he was having a ton more success stopping the run and getting pressure when he was strafing with Carswell (he didn't do it much at all in the 2nd half), but again nothing can be proven. We don't know if that's cause it's an exploit or if it really does help BV get in rhythm and make plays. That is all....I am tired so I probably wasn't very articulate.
 
[quote name='MasterAwesome']I think initially I was on board with honoring the real-life trades (in respects to one team owing another a draft pick), but I'm fairly strongly against it now. I agree it sucks that someone would have to take over a team without a first rounder in the next draft because of something they had no control over...especially if that person was given the team rather than him having chosen the team himself.

Let's look at the 2 most notable trades involving draft picks in recent years:
1) The recent Rams/Redskins trade for the Redskins moving up from pick 6 to pick 2.
2) The Oakland Raiders trade for Palmer giving up 2 1sts or a 1st/2nd (whatever it was).
[/QUOTE]

The two trades you're citing are certainly far more lopsided than any trade we've had to honor in the past (I couldn't agree more that both are ridiculous from a Madden perspective). By saying you were on board with it before and now strongly against it basically seems like saying we should stop doing it because NFL teams are getting dumber. I'm not totally unreceptive to that line of thinking, but I'm just not sure yet. The impact it has had in the past was always pretty minimal, and it will certainly have a bigger one this year - it just really hinges on whether it makes enough difference to change the policy so a couple of teams don't get hosed. I'll give it serious thought and also see what uber thinks when he's back.

It's never been a universally popular policy, but there's always been agreement that it was a good one. If everybody wants to stop doing it, we're obviously not going to continue just because we've done it in the past.

[quote name='MasterAwesome']
We don't know if that's cause it's an exploit or if it really does help BV get in rhythm and make plays.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to try not to respond to all of your post (edit: and fail, lol) because I'm honestly so tired of rehashing this all the time. I'll just respond to the above: It does help me get in rhythm and make plays. That's 100% of the reason I do it, and also 100% true. If you want to claim something like "the technique BV uses might take advantage of a hole in blocking AI that he's not aware of", fine. I don't think that's the case, but there's a way to discuss it without implying that it's possible I've spent the entirety of this season lying about the reason I do it.

As to the larger point, I've had a top 5 defense all four seasons, but never the top defense (twice best in scoring, including this season). I've never been higher than 5th in sacks (2012, I'm 10th this year). The reason my scoring defense is so good is less because of my overall defensive talent and more because I turn the ball over less than pretty much anyone. I'm good at usering linebackers the same way some people are good at ballhawking with safeties or linebackers (like yourself). That technique allows me to get more user tackles for loss and sacks (most of my sacks are user sacks) the same way the latter strategy allows people to get more user picks. I believe you yourself once said that being good at something is not reason enough to cause suspicion. The truth is, not a lot of people blitz linebackers successfully in this league (many people don't do it at all). Look at the list of guys with more than 5 sacks on the season, it's mostly populated by defensive ends (I assume most of those are coverage sacks). The linebackers who get to the QB a lot (and there's only 2 or 3 of them) all have TFL ratios around 50% or a little above. Carswell's volume is higher for sure, but wouldn't that just be because, like you said, I user him all the time (it's really more like 60% Carswell, 35% Wake, 5% everyone else) and am therefore more committed to the strategy on every play? Carswell's TFL ratio is 59%, the LB with the next most sacks, Lance Briggs (8 sacks) is at 54%, Martez Wilson (6 sacks) is at 55%. Carswell certainly fills up a stat sheet (and is taking a lot of the sacks which once went to Mayo and to a lesser extent Wake), but I see no evidence he's worlds better at getting into the backfield than other elite defensive players who their owners use in similar ways.

Anyway, we're not getting dragged into this again. As I've said in the past, if anyone can show me that I'm inadvertantly triggering a deficiency in AI blocking, I'll never do it again. It wouldn't even be that hard to prove if it was happening - just take a look at the replays and see if anything funky is going on with linebackers passing through the ethereal bodies of offensive linemen or anything like that. I've never seen that happen, but if someone showed me it was and I was missing it, I'd seal the technique away in the vault forever and find some other way to stay in rhythm at the snap.
 
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Remaining Games:

Raiders-Texans
Jags-Titans
Eagles-Cowboys (still need a sub for the Eagles!)

I see no obstacles to us advancing tonight on schedule. Can you guys let me know when these games are scheduled at your earliest convenience?
 
[quote name='bvharris']Remaining Games:

Raiders-Texans
Jags-Titans
Eagles-Cowboys (still need a sub for the Eagles!)

I see no obstacles to us advancing tonight on schedule. Can you guys let me know when these games are scheduled at your earliest convenience?[/QUOTE]

Cowboys\Eagles is scheduled for 7:30 pm est tonight
 
[quote name='Superstar']Cowboys\Eagles is scheduled for 7:30 pm est tonight[/QUOTE]

Great, thanks!

By the way, if anybody knows someone who wants to take over the Eagles, let me know. I assume by now we've recruited all the interested parties from the JV league, but I suppose it's worth another try. As I mentioned the last time the Eagles opened up, it's a pretty great roster so it shouldn't be too hard to find an owner.
 
[quote name='RamesuThe1']Raiders/Texans scheduled for 8 est.[/QUOTE]

Awesome! :D

Hopefully Titans-Jags will be on for earlier than that, in which case look for us to advance around 9PM EST.
 
[quote name='bvharris']It's never been a universally popular policy, but there's always been agreement that it was a good one. If everybody wants to stop doing it, we're obviously not going to continue just because we've done it in the past.[/QUOTE]

For me, it's what MA said about giving everyone a clean slate. When people take a team, they know what they're getting into. Players get traded, leave via free agency, retire, etc. If you're going to honor those trades, you might as well continue to enforce real life trades as the franchise goes on...or injuries for that matter. I just think it would represent the league better to start everyone out on an even field and then see what people can do with their team.

[quote name='bvharris']Anyway, we're not getting dragged into this again. As I've said in the past, if anyone can show me that I'm inadvertantly triggering a deficiency in AI blocking, I'll never do it again. It wouldn't even be that hard to prove if it was happening - just take a look at the replays and see if anything funky is going on with linebackers passing through the ethereal bodies of offensive linemen or anything like that. I've never seen that happen, but if someone showed me it was and I was missing it, I'd seal the technique away in the vault forever and find some other way to stay in rhythm at the snap.[/QUOTE]

It sounds like what you're basically asking for is somebody to record a game with you. I wish I would have known that last night, as I was already set up to do it after my CAGFC fight. I'm not saying it's exploitative, but you said yourself, nothing will be done about it until it's proven to be...but without video evidence, you can't prove it. The main reason I would call it into question would just be because you're the only one who does it. It's hard to look at it objectively when no one else feels the need to "stay in rhythm".
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']If you're going to honor those trades, you might as well continue to enforce real life trades as the franchise goes on...or injuries for that matter.[/QUOTE]


I don't really agree with that line of logic, the idea of "starting rosters" is that we essentially freeze them at the time we start the franchise (including past trades) and from that point on our paths with the real NFL diverge.

There's a logical underpinning for the policy, that's not really in doubt here. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we're obliged to do it. Your argument for not doing it is just as valid as the one for doing it. If enough people want to axe the policy, I'm fine with that.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']
The main reason I would call it into question would just be because you're the only one who does it. It's hard to look at it objectively when no one else feels the need to "stay in rhythm".[/QUOTE]

The quotes really serve no purpose to the discussion. That's the only reason I do it, suggesting otherwise is pointless, I can't prove I'm not lying obviously - but I'm not.. I've suggested in the past that other people try it and see if it works for them, I know it works for me. I'd recommend it to anyone who has trouble getting off the ball.

It's also worth pointing out that it's something I spend a great deal of time practicing. Anyone whose on my friends list has probably spotted me plenty of times mercilessly wailing on the CPU in my offline franchise. I've probably played thousands and thousands of snaps at this point using that defensive system, and I've seen a steady improvement on it over the years. Interestingly, Carswell is also my MLB in my offline franchise (albeit with a different name) - he really is the perfect player for my system, which is part of the reason I traded up to get him and also why he's had such a successful season for me. 89 speed and 95 acceleration means he's quicker off the blocks than a lot of the backs he's trying to tackle - if he wasn't causing havoc in the backfield, he wouldn't be doing his job.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']It sounds like what you're basically asking for is somebody to record a game with you. [/QUOTE]

I'm not asking anyone to do it, but I certainly won't be offended if someone wants to. I'd rather put it to bed once and for all rather than continue to see it brought up with no substantive evidence it creates an unfair advantage. I swear on a stack of Patriots jerseys that as far as I know it's not an exploit, and that I've never done it thinking it was - but if someone showed that the linebackers shoot through the O-line unrealistically, I'd be the first one in line to ban it (as I've said every time this comes up).
 
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ive never played bv so i cant really touch on wat ur saying is cheap but some people like ma are just great with linebackers even bseti... they can just run through ur offensive lineman wether they move the linebacker before the snap or not.... i cant do it but if i could i would in a heartbeat... its stuff that u cant stop that frustrates u to call someone a cheeser cus u cant stop it.....it pisses me off 2 getting hit before the handoff or having my qb get injured on a draw play.... theres always a way to beat his defense u just need to figure it out....
 
All right, and as usual, the conversation is getting way off track when people start thinking things are being said that aren't being said. None of it was accusational or mean to start some kind of witch hunt. My post was just raising the question of a couple league policies that could potentially create an uneven playing field for other members of the league, and if anything could/should be done to make the league more competitive next year.

It was only meant to be looked at objectively and analytically. If it's going to turn into "why u think he cheesin yo?" and "get betta yo", it's not worth discussing. It's especially not helpful when people aren't paying attention to the discussion and are using a person as an arguing point, when that same person was calling into question the strategy himself. On that note...nevermind.
 
So Sprice, are you gunning for 16-0 or are you going to ease up down the stretch and rest guys for the playoffs? Although injuries haven't seemed to slow you down much so far. ;)
 
[quote name='bvharris']So Sprice, are you gunning for 16-0 or are you going to ease up down the stretch and rest guys for the playoffs? Although injuries haven't seemed to slow you down much so far. ;)[/QUOTE]

No reason to wimp out. Go for perfection.
 
[quote name='staticz']No reason to wimp out. Go for perfection.[/QUOTE]

If I'm 13-0 heading into my final stretch (hardly a guarantee, I overlook no team!) I'll probably have a go at it. But I've got to play Chiefs-Texans-Falcons to close, so I'm not too optimistic about winning out. If by some miracle I've already locked up a bye (highly unlikely with the Titans and Texans both at 8 wins behind the Chiefs), I might indeed wimp out and rest my fragile guys.
 
After a great win against the Falcons the Cardinals take 2 consecutive losses to the Colts and Jaguars to fuck up my playoff hopes!
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']All right, and as usual, the conversation is getting way off track when people start thinking things are being said that aren't being said. None of it was accusational or mean to start some kind of witch hunt. My post was just raising the question of a couple league policies that could potentially create an uneven playing field for other members of the league, and if anything could/should be done to make the league more competitive next year.

It was only meant to be looked at objectively and analytically. If it's going to turn into "why u think he cheesin yo?" and "get betta yo", it's not worth discussing. It's especially not helpful when people aren't paying attention to the discussion and are using a person as an arguing point, when that same person was calling into question the strategy himself. On that note...nevermind.[/QUOTE]

if ur talking bout my words towards wat u to were dabating u have my character way off... i wasnt talking bad bout u at all i was stating there are others who play well with the linebacker that do not cheat but ive never played bv so im not taking up for him.....from what i knew of this league u can state ur opinion and thats wat i did.. .... i say go hard or go home so yea id like to go to go undefeated but im missing so many players i cant see it happening without some struggle... i am not resting players and will continue to play run first offense untill u show me i have to throw.... its been a great strategy and im sticking with it to hopefully make my 2nd superbowl appearence....
 
theres a good nfc race right now for the 6th seed..... packers rams and bucs are all tied... i think mogs got the 5th seed locked
 
[quote name='sprice8688']if ur talking bout my words towards wat u to were dabating u have my character way off... i wasnt talking bad bout u at all i was stating there are others who play well with the linebacker that do not cheat but ive never played bv so im not taking up for him.....from what i knew of this league u can state ur opinion and thats wat i did.[/QUOTE]

I hear you. I was just trying to avoid words like "cheesing" or "cheating" because that turns the conversation inflammatory so fast, it becomes pointless to talk about. It's cool though. As BV said, without a majority of opinions on the topic, nothing is going to change...nor should it. I was just brainstorming a couple ideas on a few things that have been hot button issues over the course of this franchise. The truth is, if people were willing to complain about it at one point and then back off later, they couldn't have felt too strongly about it to begin with.
 
[quote name='sprice8688']theres a good nfc race right now for the 6th seed..... packers rams and bucs are all tied... i think mogs got the 5th seed locked[/QUOTE]


I used to be in that boat :-({|=
 
[quote name='bvharris']Pats-Bengals scheduled for 9:30 tonight.[/QUOTE]

i think so far he gave me the most problams with his passing game... i struggle with stopping big plays ....
 
Yeah, the AFC wild card race is gonna be a good one. I just hope mailman and I can connect next time, because it's looking like that week 17 game will be very important, haha.
 
[quote name='sprice8688']the balls still in ur court for that 2nd seed[/QUOTE]

Nope, Atlanta has control.

*- wildcard


AFC

1. New England Patriots (11-0)
2. Kansas City Chiefs (10-1)
3. Houston Texans (8-2)
4. Baltimore Ravens (7-4)
5. *Tennessee Titans (8-2)
6. * San Diego Chargers (8-3)

In The Hunt

7. Denver Broncos (7-4)
8. Miami Dolphins (6-5)


NFC

1. Detroit Lions (11-0)
2. Atlanta Falcons (9-2)
3. San Francisco 49ers (9-2)
4. New York Giants (5-6)
5. *Chicago Bears (8-3)
6. *Green Bay Packers (6-5)

In the Hunt

7. St Louis Rams (6-5)
8. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (6-5)

On Life Support

9. Seattle Seahawks (4-6)
10. Arizona Cardinals (4-7)
 
even if i lose to the bears and packers and somehow end up tied with mog for the devision id win since he has 3 devision losses right
 
[quote name='Doomtime']We'll see in week 15. :boxing:[/QUOTE]

You mistake me, the z was to indicate I've clinched the division, not the conference. ;)
 
[quote name='bvharris']One minor correction:



Hard to believe, but true. ;)[/QUOTE]

How exactly is it hard to believe? No offense to n8, or the bills......but you're playing with 3 Scrubs. Now that uber's gone....it was already a foregone conclusion that you were winning the division. year after year after year.
 
[quote name='siradam134']How exactly is it hard to believe?[/QUOTE]

Hard to believe since it's Week 12. It was an innocuous comment, not everything I say is intended to ruffle a feather. :grouphug:

I don't view anyone in the division as a scrub, you've beaten me before, the Bills have come close several times, and n8 played me tough last night. Don't forget I won the division every time uber was in it too though. ;)
 
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