[quote name='Liquid 2']Tell me, what do you think people like bmulligan, thrustbucket, and myself define as socialism? And tell me, where did you get the 98%+ number from?
Extra credit: do it without
any insults.[/QUOTE]
Why don't YOU tell us what you think it is?
Also, not needing the extra credit, you're doing yourself a bit too proud, and also selling yourself short, by putting yourself in league with those cats.
As for what you think socialism is, I'll go w/ bmulligan. Simply put, he defines a fully, 100%, laissez-faire free market to be the only philosophy free of "socialism." Socialism is, to him, allowing a government to determine the degree of freedom in the market (which is redundant, to be sure).
But to him, socialism also comes packaged with a wealthy-justifying ideology that insists that government involvement in the free market that penalizes business = socialism. He often seems to suggest that tax increases = socialism/wealth redistribution, but it's logically necessary that tax cuts are also socialism/wealth redistribution. It's, simply, the government defining the terms of the contract required to do business in the US, high or low.
Think about how the pro-free-market-anti-socialism crowd would have treated the "Bailout package" if it came in the form of $700B in tax cuts instead of a $700B welfare check. Same terms, same conditions, mildly different distribution. And surely they would cheer for assisting the "free market" here, when the "handout" version of the bill gained the ire of those same folks. Which is, more or less, my point.
But the problem with this notion of socialism is that it's premised on a "deserving/undeserving" dichotomy which is false, overestimates the degree of autonomy in individuals (and, hahaha, despises that autonomy when it's empowered to unionize workers!), and justifies all wealth and monies acquired by all involved parties. That simply acting in the market, to you all, is approval of the way the market operates, for better for worse.
So the $25B severance for the CEOs of Fannie and Freddie are deserved in the market. Bob Nardelli's $242B for
in' up The Home Depot and getting shitcanned by shareholders is money that is deserved. Bob Nardelli and Joe the Plumber have equal say in their conditions, their remunerations, and their dividends in the market. To you all.
To interfere with the market as it works is socialism.
But, more to the point, socialism is a word used by you three to shut people up when you don't want to have a real conversation. It distracts from an exchange of ideas and philosophies - those given the label stop the discussion at hand to defend themselves against this claim, and the conversation gets dropped. But it's also just a cheap shot - going for the negative gut reaction to "OH NO RED MENACE!" instead of explaining why an idea is good or bad. If an issue isn't worth acknowledging, don't acknowledge it. If it is worth debating, debate it. Crying socialism is cheap, boring, and should be beneath anyone that considers themselves intellectually worthy.
BTW, there's no need to point how that it's narcissistic of me to say something like "intellectually worthy," because I'm aware of that. I'm also aware of being a narcissist. So we don't need to go there, ok? You might as well accuse me of having two ears. That, my friend, is also the truth.
Fable crashed on me twice today.
, and I was just getting into it, too. I'm not messing around with it now - maybe I'll break out th' ol' Xbox 1.
