McCain on Immigration

[mykevermin]

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm

Key points:

He supports building a border, combining "physical and virtual barriers."

He supports border patrols.

He supports prosecuting those who hire illegals.

He also supports amnesty. Read the section under the header "address the undocumented."

Specifically, this: "The program will also ensure that all undocumented aliens either leave or follow the path to legal residence. America cannot permit a permanent category of individuals that do not have recognized status – a permanent second class."

So, while he's appeasing the "close the border" folks, he's not going to make them very happy by trying to solve the problem of illegals in the country by permitting them to stay or become residents.

Which, of course, is the only reasonable course of events - you want to try to identify and deport 12-20 million people, AND find the money to pay for all of it? Do tell, because if you have a sound plan, you'll get a cabinet position.

That said, he doesn't seem to be towing the party line here. It's an interesting change, in finding the middleground on an issue that so many on the right seemed to be unwaveringly positioned on. They HATE Bush for his lack of work on the immigration problem, and McCain doesn't seem to be suggesting much here that is any different from Bush's stance.

Your thoughts?

 

[lilboo]

I really dont quite understand the politics concerning immigration as no one in my immediate family is. (Of course we came here, but it was no one recent :lol..but I don't see why people are against putting up a border or securing them?

I just don't think it should be ok for people to just.. roll up in the country. Any country for that matter.
I am not sure what the process of being a citizen is, but I've heard it's difficult and/or just long? Is this true?

Why can't we do both?
Let's make a secure border, but let's also make it easier for peoples to live here

 

[nasum]

The actual construction of a border wall would be ridiculous, border patrols (done by professionals and not rednecks that have "volunteered") make sense but given today's economy not much makes sense at all in terms of spending, going after those that employ illegals makes the most sense of all

 

[fatherofcaitlyn]

You can't become a citizen if you're a drug dealing violent felon.

...

A secure border might force employers to use legal workers and pay them a legal wage.

Could you imagine the problems with legal workers?

Workers would have PAID breaks. They would be PAID to do nothing.

Workers would be PAID overtime. After 40 hours, they would have to be paid time and a half unless they became salaried.

If I hire an illegal, I can get 12 hours out of him or her before exhaustion. And I save a ton of money on soap. Yep, I save oodles of money when an illegal takes a shit in the field and continues handling my vegetables for another 8 hours. Granted, the vegetables are covered in E Coli, but everybody boils carrots and spinach for 8 minutes.

 

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Big wall is to supply side economics as No Employer risking the hire of an illegal is to demand side economics.

 

[lilboo]

 

[Ikohn4ever]

well he was for his own immigration bill before he was against it. Just shows how complicated it is even with something you created using your own words.

 

[thrustbucket]

[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm

Key points:

He supports building a border, combining "physical and virtual barriers."[/quote]
Woah. We have a border again? When did this happen?!

Which, of course, is the only reasonable course of events - you want to try to identify and deport 12-20 million people, AND find the money to pay for all of it? Do tell, because if you have a sound plan, you'll get a cabinet position.

No, you can't legislate a witch hunt. But we certainly can actually enforce our already existing laws, and create a few new ones, that makes illegals not want to come here, and make the ones here, prefer to go home.

That said, he doesn't seem to be towing the party line here. It's an interesting change, in finding the middleground on an issue that so many on the right seemed to be unwaveringly positioned on. They HATE Bush for his lack of work on the immigration problem, and McCain doesn't seem to be suggesting much here that is any different from Bush's stance.

Your thoughts?

I'm one of those people that hates Bush for those things, and I hate McCain for it too. Totally impotent plan. In fact, most of his stances/plans are contradictory, imo.

 

[mykevermin]

[quote name='thrustbucket']No, you can't legislate a witch hunt.[/quote]

I'll agree with that in this context only, as our destruction of habeas corpus and willingness to indefinitely detain folks suspected of being "enemy combatants" walks and talks like a witch hunt to me.

But I digress.

But we certainly can actually enforce our already existing laws, and create a few new ones, that makes illegals not want to come here, and make the ones here, prefer to go home.

Bingo. This is a situation that calls for an "environmental criminology" solution.

(short story on EC: changing a given situation to make criminal activity less likely or impossible - like replacing old phonebooth coin boxes, which were made of aluminum, with steel - so without changing anything about a person, thefts/breakins dropped like in' somethin' that drops fast)

So, yes, making the environment/economy unwelcome to illegal immigrants would pretty much render everything else moot, including a border.

But it requires a great deal of monitoring and enforcement, unfortunately. That's a lotta bread.

 

[elprincipe]

Given that the immigration issue has kind of slipped a little under the radar compared to the economy and foreign relations, I don't think it'll hurt him too much among conservatives. Yes, this is a similar position to Bush's on the issue, and one which conservatives loathe.

Personally, I think you use a combination of fencing/border patrol/interior enforcement to stop illegal immigration, increase legal immigration, and problem solved. Of course, that's harder than it sounds, but surely it's a common-sense approach for those of us who won't agree with the far-left open borders people any more than we agree with the far-right stop-all-immigration-now-and-forever people.

 

[RAMSTORIA]

one simple step that i think would help a lot would be to take away birth right citizenship. meaning you can only be a citizen if one of your parents are, not if your parent jumps the border when theyre 8 months pregnant and now you are.