Men Over 30

I do think it's something you can't explain to people who don't have kids. But I also think it's important to realize that not everyone is the same.

Not everyone who doesn't have kids will change their mind. Not everyone who doesn't have kids will end up loving having them if they do have them some day for whatever reason--plenty of people have kids and don't enjoy them and end up as terrible parents.

For some people kids are great and end up improving their life, even if they didn't want them when they were younger. Others are like me and just flat out can't fucking stand kids and get in a bad mood nearly every time we have to be around them. It's not just that I want to focus on career, enjoying my own life etc. I just don't like people much in general, and kids are at the bottom of the barrel in that regard for me. :D
 
I agree but I hate everyone else's kids and I certainly hated most kids before having them myself (but I always knew I wanted kids eventually). Don't knock it until you've tried it! Maybe have one or two and then see if it feels right? Hahaha.

You have the benefit of being a dude so it is never too late. My sister is 35 and childless (married 10 years) and basically doesn't want them because she doesn't want to give up her free time and wants to be able to do what she wants. I hope when it soon becomes impossible she doesn't regret it. She would make a great mom too - she's an elementary school teacher and loves kids! I don't get it.
 
Yeah, that just the type of attitude that leads to child abuse and neglect as people who really have no interest in kids end up having them from societal pressure, or having a g/f or wife who really wants them etc....

And it's pretty damn annoying how many parents like you basically look down your noses at people who don't want kids and think there's something wrong with people who don't want kids etc.

There's nothing to "not get" about your sister. She doesn't enjoy kids enough to want her own, and prefers to live her life for herself. Not everyone feels having kids would make their lives better.

I'll just never understand why US society puts so much pressure on people to have kids. The world is over crowded, there are shortages of jobs etc., people should be happy that not everyone wants to have kids so we don't end up like China with the government regulating how many kids people can have etc.
 
It's because having kids is so awesome in just about every conceivable way I can't comprehend why anyone would feel they were better off without them.

If you don't want them then don't have them but it doesn't mean I can't think you might regret it or have some part of your life go unfulfilled or something. I'm probably wrong (but I could be right) and I mean it's certainly better than bringing an unwanted kid into the world and good for you to know beforehand but from a parent's perspective it's hard to understand why someone wouldn't want the greatest thing (by far - nothing else is remotely close) that has even happened in my life to NOT happen to them.
 
It's just a matter of being able to accept that everyone is different. That's all it takes to comprehend why some people (including some who unfortunately had kids) don't feel kids make them better off.

Everyone is different. Not everyone wants the same things. Not everyone enjoys the same things. Having kids is no different than anything else in that regard. Nothing is for everyone.
 
Obviously. I'd feel the same way if someone told me they didn't like chocolate ice cream though. Fine, you don't like it but I can't comprehend why not. It's so delicious!

So to sum it up, kids are like chocolate ice cream. You keep them in the freezer until you are ready to eat them with chocolate syrup and whipped cream. Mmmmm....
 
My point is more along the lines of "why bother caring about other's preferences and choices?"

I don't bother trying to comprehend why some people want kids, or like or don't like certain ice cream flavors etc.

The world would be a damned boring place if everyone enjoyed the same things. But unfortunately many people think their "way" is right and wish everyone was just a clone of themselves, with the way many try to push their views, values, beliefs etc. on others and look down on people who don't conform to their moral system or their view of what people should strive for in life.
 
I sort of understand both sides of the argument. For me, parenthood is about feeling confident that we can raise good children, and instill values in them that are important to us, and they can contribute to society. At least for me, there is definitely some sort of legacy effect. My last name is going to get passed down with these guys, hopefully for generations, and I take pride in that.

The things like the baby falling asleep in your arms is indiscribable. Their first smile. The first time they call you dada. So many milestones that bring joy to your life. Even bad parents get joy from their children. That much is universal. There's an almost tribal feeling to having your own pod. Wanting to protect them, defend them, provide for them.

It's easier for current parents to compare pre-child and post child life, and that's why we can be so arrogant towards non-parents and tell them that life will not be as fulfilling without kids, because we've experienced both sides. So do I think you will miss out on some joy and happiness? Absolutely, without a doubt. Would the lack of joy and happiness be worse than the frustrations and dislike you have for kids? Dunno. That's the part that I think depends on the individual.

Already a long rant, but I'll wrap up with two times my kids saved me.

Our son was about 4 months old, and I was in a pretty dark place with respect to career, feeling depressed, feeling like a letdown to him and my wife, I was still among the bottom rung of Bay Area stand up comedians, and saw people far less funny get accolades that baffled me. My job was a dead end, crushing, horrible place to work. I was on the verge of a true mental breakdown. The one thing that kept me from losing it was coming home and seeing my new son. He literally saved me from temporary insanity. Got a new job, moved out of the area, and haven't been close to losing it since.

Number 2, I was in a long, stressful application process for a career that I wanted more than any other I'd ever considered. Trained and prepared literally for 2 years. Got through several stages, deep into the process, then did an interview that I know I nailed. I'm quick to admit to my faults, this interview was world class. A heavy bias from 2/3 panelists was apparent at the beginning, but I thought I did well enough where this thing was in the bag. I find out I didn't get it. I couldn't eat for a couple of days. Barely talked. A couple of guys I knew that worked for the same org, were literally cursing their organization because they couldn't believe I didn't get in. For a distraction I agreed to take my 4yr old to the local pool. We're driving and he asks about the "job" thinking it was a race. He says, "Dad, did you win your race." Heck, I hadn't wanted to talk about it even with my wife, beyond telling her I didn't get it. Fighting back tears, I tell him, no, I didn't. He counters with "Did you try your hardest?" I tell him I did. Silence. Then he says, "Well if you tried your hardest, I'm proud of you." I've cried two times in the last ten years. That was one of them.

My kids are the center of my life, and I feel like a better person for having them in it.
 
I might get married and have kids just for the benefits. The country has already shifted away from single people's rights. Everything is geared towards the breeders.
 
[quote name='berzirk']So do I think you will miss out on some joy and happiness? Absolutely, without a doubt. Would the lack of joy and happiness be worse than the frustrations and dislike you have for kids? Dunno. That's the part that I think depends on the individual.[/QUOTE]

That's it in a nutshell. That's what really varies by the person, and I'm pretty confident that the frustrations and dislikes I'd have would outweigh the joys for me.

And thankfully I've never had a dark period in my life, and don't feel any empty spots in my life that potentially need filled by children. I have great friends and family, have never had issues with dating etc. I've been relatively successful in my career thus far and really enjoy what I do.

I don't really care much about leaving a legacy etc. And even if I did, my job allows for that as I'm publishing research that gets cited by others. And hopefully I do some work during my career that has an impact on my field and carries my name and research agenda on beyond my time. As well as mentoring students who can carry it on in their careers etc.
 
I actually have much respect for dmaul and anyone who makes the conscious decision that they do not want children. I have uncles (and the women they married) who made this choice and frankly, I think they were right to do so. It's not that they are bad or even selfish people. It's just that they are not the kind of folks equipped to share their lives with children and make the sacrifices necessary. There are too damn many people in this world who have children for the wrong reasons and really screw them up because of it. I've seen it first hand. I think it takes guts to do a self-assessment and say, "You know, I don't necessarily want this thing that society and the biological imperative tells me I'm supposed to want." Some people may see that as selfish and closed-minded, but I actually think it's selfless in a way.

I had to think about this kind of stuff a lot when I very much wanted to be a father but found out it very well might not happen for me. There was jealously directed toward people who were capable of having children and chose not to. So I thought about what fatherhood is, how I would feel raising a child that was not genetically mine, etc. And the conclusion I came to is that anyone can father a child, but being a DAD is a conscious choice every day, and whether the child came from my body or not, I would love him and treat him as if he were a part of me...because he would be.
 
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[quote name='Tybee']I actually have much respect for dmaul and anyone who makes the conscious decision that they do not want children. I have uncles (and the women they married) who made this choice and frankly, I think they were right to do so. It's not that they are bad or even selfish people. It's just that they are not the kind of folks equipped to share their lives with children and make the sacrifices necessary. There are too damn many people in this world who have children for the wrong reasons and really screw them up because of it. I've seen it first hand. I think it takes guts to do a self-assessment and say, "You know, I don't necessarily want this thing that society and the biological imperative tells me I'm supposed to want." Some people may see that as selfish and closed-minded, but I actually think it's selfless in a way.

I had to think about this kind of stuff a lot when I very much wanted to be a father but found out it very well might not happen for me. There was jealously directed toward people who were capable of having children and chose not to. So I thought about what fatherhood is, how I would feel raising a child that was not genetically mine, etc. And the conclusion I came to is that anyone can father a child, but being a DAD is a conscious choice every day, and whether the child came from my body or not, I would love him and treat him as if he were a part of me...because he would be.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the whole thing and if I wasn't able to sire kids myself, there are plenty of kids out there that need a stable home and some tlc that I could hopefully provide.

If someone doesn't want to have kids, more power to them, but I would never try to persuade anyone either way or judge them.
 
I think those best suited for having families are eternal optimists, sort of like Christians. There's a ton of things that can go wrong with children; they can have genetic diseases, grow up to be drug dealers. Your wife can stab you in the back and lock you up as a pedophile as part of a spiteful divorce proceeding. Even if you don't actively dislike children there's a lot to be said about other people taking all the ugly risks, of being able to go home at the end of the day without having to clean poop, or hearing some brats whine about how they don't like pizza and ice cream.

I couldn't imagine having to discipline children or having that "arbitrary power while getting annoyed with them" thing; when I see some parents do it, it's like their brain shrinks down to thimble-size to play all the petty games and reprisals. Better to be the teacher or the always-cool uncle, that gets you the most positive with the least amount of negative.
 
[quote name='berzirk']...Then he says, "Well if you tried your hardest, I'm proud of you." I've cried two times in the last ten years. That was one of them.[/QUOTE]

Is there a sincere/non-ironic version of the "Cool Story, Bro" thing? If so, I would use it here.
 
i don't really feel much different. I'm 32. I recommend regular exercise and maybe changing your eating habits a bit and that should help.
 
[quote name='monash65']Is there a sincere/non-ironic version of the "Cool Story, Bro" thing? If so, I would use it here.[/QUOTE]

Haa haa. It was like an after-school special! I almost thought Winger was going to pop out of the trunk and start playing :p
 
Do any of you guys have anxiety attacks?

These things are a bitch. I used to have them once or twice a month. Sometimes, I'd get them during an intense movie. I quit going to the theater for a long time because of it. It was getting pretty ridiculous. Still, I feel lucky because some people have them so bad it really impacts their daily lives. For me, it's just like some seemingly random well, attack. I usually get them late, late at night. Say 1am and after which of course, impacts my sleep.

I largely quit soda and that really reduced their frequency. No soda at home anymore. Sometimes though, I'll bring home a 2 liter for the weekend. Hey, everyone has a vice!

Trying not to dwell on things like bills and whatnot - and being really close to paying them off - has helped. Gradually changing my mental attitude has helped - living more "present tense" for lack of a better explanation.

I have some audio self therapy stuff I listen to when I have a bad one. It provides some relief but mostly I just try to "get zen" and wait them out. I've also found that if I have one while my brother is awake, I can "talk them out" to reduce their intensity.

Anyways, what prompted me to post this is last night I had a bad one, first one in maybe 4 months - and it came back with a vengeance. Lasted from 3:30am to 6am. Sheesh. I still feel a little shaky and weak this morning. Tempted to call in today but probably won't

One thing I really need to improve is my "calling in" skills.
 
[quote name='Broseph']Do any of you guys have anxiety attacks?

These things are a bitch. I used to have them once or twice a month. Sometimes, I'd get them during an intense movie. I quit going to the theater for a long time because of it. It was getting pretty ridiculous. Still, I feel lucky because some people have them so bad it really impacts their daily lives. For me, it's just like some seemingly random well, attack. I usually get them late, late at night. Say 1am and after which of course, impacts my sleep.

I largely quit soda and that really reduced their frequency. No soda at home anymore. Sometimes though, I'll bring home a 2 liter for the weekend. Hey, everyone has a vice!

Trying not to dwell on things like bills and whatnot - and being really close to paying them off - has helped. Gradually changing my mental attitude has helped - living more "present tense" for lack of a better explanation.

I have some audio self therapy stuff I listen to when I have a bad one. It provides some relief but mostly I just try to "get zen" and wait them out. I've also found that if I have one while my brother is awake, I can "talk them out" to reduce their intensity.

Anyways, what prompted me to post this is last night I had a bad one, first one in maybe 4 months - and it came back with a vengeance. Lasted from 3:30am to 6am. Sheesh. I still feel a little shaky and weak this morning. Tempted to call in today but probably won't

One thing I really need to improve is my "calling in" skills.[/QUOTE]

Have you tried seeing a therapist? This doesn't strike me as something you should just hope goes away. I think it warrants a formal diagnosis.
 
[quote name='Broseph']Do any of you guys have anxiety attacks?

These things are a bitch. I used to have them once or twice a month. Sometimes, I'd get them during an intense movie. I quit going to the theater for a long time because of it. It was getting pretty ridiculous. Still, I feel lucky because some people have them so bad it really impacts their daily lives. For me, it's just like some seemingly random well, attack. I usually get them late, late at night. Say 1am and after which of course, impacts my sleep.

I largely quit soda and that really reduced their frequency. No soda at home anymore. Sometimes though, I'll bring home a 2 liter for the weekend. Hey, everyone has a vice!

Trying not to dwell on things like bills and whatnot - and being really close to paying them off - has helped. Gradually changing my mental attitude has helped - living more "present tense" for lack of a better explanation.

I have some audio self therapy stuff I listen to when I have a bad one. It provides some relief but mostly I just try to "get zen" and wait them out. I've also found that if I have one while my brother is awake, I can "talk them out" to reduce their intensity.

Anyways, what prompted me to post this is last night I had a bad one, first one in maybe 4 months - and it came back with a vengeance. Lasted from 3:30am to 6am. Sheesh. I still feel a little shaky and weak this morning. Tempted to call in today but probably won't

One thing I really need to improve is my "calling in" skills.[/QUOTE]
Wow...holy shit man, you need to see a doctor. What's your diet like and overall physical health?
 
[quote name='Javery']What are you anxious about? What happens? Shortness of breath or something?[/QUOTE]
It's a racing heartbeat, shortness of breath and waves of nausea mostly. The sudden and unexpected adrenalin infusion is the culprit.

As for therapy I don't really know if that's necessary. I mean, It's just typical worries like bills and job stuff. it's just that these worries, occasionally trigger this physical response. It's really a really common condition. Pretty interesting (and inconvenient) stuff.

The first one I had sent me to the ER, they explained a bit about it. Also my dad has them on occasion. Something I found out after the trip to the ER. So it's not a faulty ticker or anything. It's more about over thinking things and the eventual knee jerk reaction from your fight or flight instinct.
 
Broseph, you may be used to your symptoms and think they are no big deal. What your describing is not a normal reaction you should be having. Please see a therapist to help you control/reduce these anxiety attacks.
 
[quote name='jbuck138']Broseph, you may be used to your symptoms and think they are no big deal. What your describing is not a normal reaction you should be having. Please see a therapist to help you control/reduce these anxiety attacks.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. And don't feel like seeing a therapist is somehow a sign of weakness (or, conversely, an overreaction). While you may have learned to rationalize these attacks as "no big deal," clearly a part of you knows that they are. A therapist at the very least will equip you with better coping tactics, or may decide (with your permission) to help you pursue the underlying issues causing the attacks.

I cannot emphasize enough: this is not something to shrug off. You owe it to yourself to get some outside help.
 
[quote name='Tybee']Totally agree. And don't feel like seeing a therapist is somehow a sign of weakness (or, conversely, an overreaction). While you may have learned to rationalize these attacks as "no big deal," clearly a part of you knows that they are. A therapist at the very least will equip you with better coping tactics, or may decide (with your permission) to help you pursue the underlying issues causing the attacks.

I cannot emphasize enough: this is not something to shrug off. You owe it to yourself to get some outside help.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your concern guys.

I'll link the wiki if you want to read up on the basics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_attack
 
[quote name='Tybee']
I cannot emphasize enough: this is not something to shrug off. You owe it to yourself to get some outside help.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth.

I never had what I would consider a panic attack, but I do sometimes get a really bad pain in my stomach when I'm really worried or anxious about something that's going to happen soon e.g. a big job interview. I guess some people call it knots in the stomach. Yeah, I'm a worrier.
 
when I get them I feel like my body temperature drops about 10F and my whole body starts shivering. Take a bath in ice water if you want to recreate the body sensation. Then again, I've had maybe 3 in the 5 or so years since the divorce whereas I had them twice a month when it was still on.

The only thing that really ever helped was xanax but it's incredibly habit forming. given my chemical history, there's apparently a note in my file to not give me that shit anymore.
 
I had panic attacks like that when I was younger, but probably not quite as severe. My heart would start beating faster, my hands would shake some, I'd start to perspire. It felt more like extreme nervousness. I just learned to deal with by taking deep breathes and trying my best to relax.
 
what a difference a couple of months make....


So get this. I grew up 8 houses away from the coolest girl in the universe. We used to go skateboarding together and such when we were kids. We fooled around a couple of times in our late teens but her family moved away and we lost touch over the years.
A few weeks back I sent a mail to a girl on OKCupid. Turns out the years have been very kind as not only did I not recognize this girl, but she's now absolutely stunning instead of really pretty.

I can honestly say I've never been this happy in my whole life. The animalistic lust of our youth remains, but in addition to that we've got enough life under our belts to really enjoy each other's company and we have a similar warped sense of humour that basically makes our time together a string of running gags and jokes.

Maybe my marriage prediction for this year wasn't so far off?

The only potential issue is that she's got two female pups and my female pup does not under any circumstances like other female pups. Oh well, mine is going to Dog Aggression classes next month so that might calm it all down.
 
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