MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce

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Yeah, Mir looked really good. But Cheick Kongo is terrible. I'm sorry, but he's going nowhere in the UFC. Dana might as well cut him because he's been getting his ass kicked lately and is not even a top 5 heavyweight. The fact that Mir was able to drop him with one punch just adds to insult to injury. If Kongo can't stand with guys, he's got nothing. They should put him up against Roy Nelson next. And if he loses that, get rid of him.
 
[quote name='Ronzilla']Yeah Fitch is the person who gave GSP the hardest fight to date per GSP. It'll happen.:D[/QUOTE]


That's exactly why I want to see fight two. Fitch is one heck of a fighter who deserves a second opportunity against St-Pierre. :)

Also: 'Fat Mur' is no more. Frank Mir is determined to finish Brock Lesnar in the inevitable third fight. The hype around that fight will be huge--if things go accordingly. :hot:
 
[quote name='jaykhub53']Mir really impressed me, and he looks huge.[/QUOTE]


Yep, Mir is doing his homework, he really is looking forward to facing again Lesnar!Let's hope he gets well soon,and back to the gym!And Mir destroyed Congo in a couple of minutes,where does that leaves Cain Velazquez decision victory over Congo?
 
Here comes the crazy. Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, Mir looked really good. But Cheick Kongo is terrible. I'm sorry, but he's going nowhere in the UFC. Dana might as well cut him because he's been getting his ass kicked lately and is not even a top 5 heavyweight. The fact that Mir was able to drop him with one punch just adds to insult to injury. If Kongo can't stand with guys, he's got nothing. They should put him up against Roy Nelson next. And if he loses that, get rid of him.[/QUOTE]
Cheick isn't that bad and there's no way the UFC cuts him.
 
[quote name='jaykhub53']Cheick isn't that bad and there's no way the UFC cuts him.[/QUOTE]

I guess I just don't have patience for a guy who has no ground game and is now even being dominated in the stand up. At this point, I feel like Kimbo Slice could beat him. Considering the fact that Buentello fought tonight, you're right. There's no way the UFC cuts Kongo. But I don't know who he's capable of beating. He's not even a gatekeeper for the title. He's like a gatekeeper for the top 5-6 in the division. If the UFC had a stronger heavyweight division, he'd be completely expendable.

Also, I hope BJ knocked some of the arrogance out of Diego tonight. I was actually rooting for Diego, but I can't stand any fighter who spends more time working on his shit talking than on his strategy for the fight. Maybe that knockdown in the opening minute completely took him out of his game, but Sanchez looked like he had no clue how to even begin to fight BJ Penn. He also looked considerably slow when he shot in on BJ...but I guess running face first into punches will do that to you.

Either way, I thought Florian gave a much better effort against Penn than Sanchez did. Gotta wonder who they're going to throw at BJ next. Frankie Edgar? There's no way Florian gets a title shot again so soon. I wouldn't be surprised if they put him against Sanchez next. Then, if he wins that, give him BJ again (because Edgar sure as hell wouldn't beat Penn). Too many belts in the UFC are freaking unattainable, lol.
 
Yeah, I guess Gray Maynard or Frankie Edgar is going to be next for Penn. Neither of those guys are going to beat him, period. An in shape, 155 lb BJ is unbelievably good. No one is taking that belt off of him for a very long time.
 
I want someone to come down to fight BJ, personally. The GSP/BJ fight was such a fluke, largely due to the fact that there was probably a 20+ lb weight difference there.


BJ totally outclassed Diego Tonight.


Was it just me, or did Diego Sanchez have the look of a man that was going to go home and beat his wife tonight, before he got his ass kicked? All of those stupid faces he was making were totally laughable.
 
No one at 155 is in the same class as BJ, and Diego was never a threat. Lightweight is just another division with a dominate champion, much like Welterweight and Middleweight.
 
[quote name='redshadow']I want someone to come down to fight BJ, personally. The GSP/BJ fight was such a fluke, largely due to the fact that there was probably a 20+ lb weight difference there.


BJ totally outclassed Diego Tonight.


Was it just me, or did Diego Sanchez have the look of a man that was going to go home and beat his wife tonight, before he got his ass kicked? All of those stupid faces he was making were totally laughable.[/QUOTE]

That fight wasn't a fluke, GSP is a better fighter at 170 than BJ Penn.
 
[quote name='blueweltall']That fight wasn't a fluke, GSP is a better fighter at 170 than BJ Penn.[/QUOTE]

bj is one of my favorite fighters ever. he is a lightweight and not a big lightweight.
in the old days before everyone cut tons he was a top5 ww. hes just too small to compete at the highest level at ww. hes 160 fighting highly skilled guys who are often at 190 its just too big a weight difference.

at his weight I dont think anybody beats him.
people talking about bringing aoki to give him some competition are crazy, bj would absolutely smash aoki, and i LOVE aoki.
 
I think he's just saying that it wasn't a fair fight for BJ because of what a big 170 GSP is. The problem is, it apparently takes a guy that big to be able to take BJ down, as NOBODY at 155 seems to have a chance. This leaves BJ in a really odd predicament because if he ever wants a challenge again, he's going to have to go back up in weight. But the flip side of that coin is just dominating at 155 without breaking a sweat for the next 4-5 years (until his age allows someone to catch up), and cementing his place as one of the best MMA fighters ever. It's just going to be boring as hell for him, lol.
 
[quote name='billyrox']Dude, GSP fight was not a fluke, GSP still will destroy BJ today[/QUOTE]


Yeah, the post above me got the point of what I said.


a 35lb Weight Cut is no small feat, and if fighters do do it, they definitely feel it the next day.
 
So, seriously, who is going to challenge BJ at 155? Looking at other organizations, I don't see anyone who poises a true threat to his title. Aoki has no stand up, and BJ is just as skilled on the ground. Alvarez has weak grappling and tends to brawl, and I think BJ would just pick him apart. Joachim Hansen isn't a threat, and I think BJ would tap him out quickly. I'm not a huge BJ fan or anything, but I honestly don't see any true competition for him at 155. They could bring KJ Noons in at some point, and he might at least give BJ a challenge on the feet since he's a professional boxer, but after seeing him get knocked out against Krazy Horse, I really doubt it. So what do you guys want to see? Would you rather see BJ stay at 155 or try 170 again?
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']So, seriously, who is going to challenge BJ at 155? Looking at other organizations, I don't see anyone who poises a true threat to his title. Aoki has no stand up, and BJ is just as skilled on the ground. Alvarez has weak grappling and tends to brawl, and I think BJ would just pick him apart. Joachim Hansen isn't a threat, and I think BJ would tap him out quickly. I'm not a huge BJ fan or anything, but I honestly don't see any true competition for him at 155. They could bring KJ Noons in at some point, and he might at least give BJ a challenge on the feet since he's a professional boxer, but after seeing him get knocked out against Krazy Horse, I really doubt it. So what do you guys want to see? Would you rather see BJ stay at 155 or try 170 again?[/QUOTE]

The only other thing I could see is someone from WEC coming up to fight BJ, since he isn't a big 155 to begin with. If Jose Aldo could bulk up, that might be an interesting fight. I wouldn't really expect him to win, but at this point, it's probably as good as anything else you're going to throw at BJ.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']The only other thing I could see is someone from WEC coming up to fight BJ, since he isn't a big 155 to begin with. If Jose Aldo could bulk up, that might be an interesting fight. I wouldn't really expect him to win, but at this point, it's probably as good as anything else you're going to throw at BJ.[/QUOTE]
That would be at least be an interesting fight. Aldo has really nice, unorthodox striking, so he could at least pose a new threat for BJ in the striking department. I'd be more excited to see that than BJ vs Frankie Edgar, to be honest.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']That would be at least be an interesting fight. Aldo has really nice, unorthodox striking, so he could at least pose a new threat for BJ in the striking department. I'd be more excited to see that than BJ vs Frankie Edgar, to be honest.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was my conclusion as well. Aside from bringing in someone new, giving Edgar/Griffin a title shot would only be for the purpose of spacing out Penn vs Florian 2...which is really the only other viable fight at this point.

It just makes me wonder if BJ was going up against Aldo, would he just take it easy in his training, knowing he's going to naturally be the bigger fighter. Or would he bulk up as though he were fighting GSP, and then cut to make weight, and end up outweighing Aldo by 25lbs, which would be the exact same thing GSP did to him, lol.
 
Anyone else absolutely love seeing Guida get completely dismantled and dominated? He's one fighter that just annoys the hell out of me... when it comes to BJ, the Aoki talk is stupid to me, I think BJ would smash Aoki and I love banana pants too. I actually think Joachim Hansen is more of a threat to BJ than Aoki is.
 
i dont want to see bj at 170. i want to see him destroy every challenger they throw at him.
its not like they dont have good fighters at 155, they have absolutely fantastic guys but theyre just not up to par. its not like anderson silva where outside of 2 guys the talent level drops significantly.

outside the ufc id like to see bj fight jz i think kawajiri would be a fun fight too.

I think they should give bj fighters that have good styles to make the fights exciting.
i wouldnt mind seeing him fight uno again.
 
I think Aoki has a good chance of winning a decision against BJ. Aoki's style is ridiculously hard to train for. Anyway I'm annoyed at Diego's coaching staff. He had all the tools to win, but absolutely no correct gameplan.

Anyway without further ado, this is HOW TO BEAT BJ PENN.

1. BJ Penn's chin is invincible. All head-hunting punches are useless. Discard them.
2. BJ Penn loses the "long-fight" often. If punches must be thrown, go to the body. Occasionally throw in hooks and what not to keep his hands up, but the intention should be to damage the body.
3. BJ Penn is no kickboxer. Leg kicks are effective against him, and reduce his resistance to takedowns and help win in the later rounds. Throw often but watching counter punches. See Jardine vs. Chuck for examples.
4. Body kicks. Your leg kicks and body kicks will bring his hands down along with your body punches. Occasionally throw head kicks to keep his hands up.
5. Explosive Double-Leg Takedowns. BJ is nearly immune to the single-leg. He has shown to be susceptible to a very fast double leg that is set up correctly with striking.

Follow these steps and you can win.
Where was Diego's corner with this strat?!?!?!!?!?

Diego needs Greg Jackson I guess.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I think Aoki has a good chance of winning a decision against BJ. Aoki's style is ridiculously hard to train for. Anyway I'm annoyed at Diego's coaching staff. He had all the tools to win, but absolutely no correct gameplan.

Anyway without further ado, this is HOW TO BEAT BJ PENN.

1. BJ Penn's chin is invincible. All head-hunting punches are useless. Discard them.
2. BJ Penn loses the "long-fight" often. If punches must be thrown, go to the body. Occasionally throw in hooks and what not to keep his hands up, but the intention should be to damage the body.
3. BJ Penn is no kickboxer. Leg kicks are effective against him, and reduce his resistance to takedowns and help win in the later rounds. Throw often but watching counter punches. See Jardine vs. Chuck for examples.
4. Body kicks. Your leg kicks and body kicks will bring his hands down along with your body punches. Occasionally throw head kicks to keep his hands up.
5. Explosive Double-Leg Takedowns. BJ is nearly immune to the single-leg. He has shown to be susceptible to a very fast double leg that is set up correctly with striking.

Follow these steps and you can win.
Where was Diego's corner with this strat?!?!?!!?!?

Diego needs Greg Jackson I guess.[/QUOTE]

These are all good points. Specifically, I most agree with point #3. Now, many people would worry about throwing kicks and getting taken down by BJ. But obviously, this wasn't a concern for Diego, as he kept throwing that slow head kick (thinking he was going to drop him like Guida, I guess?) If you're brave enough to throw multiple head kicks, you can damn well throw some leg kicks. Besides, BJ hasn't really looked for the takedown in either of his last two fights.

I also agree that Diego had a horrible strategy and at times looked like he had no strategy at all...like he just thought his talent alone would beat BJ. Now, how much of that was arrogance, and how much of it was almost getting KO'd in the first minute, I don't know. But his corner didn't seem to help much.
 
You guys seem to forget that BJ is one of the UFCs best strikers and he's got extremely heavy hands. All those points are good, but if you expect someone to beat him at 155 like that, good luck. They'll be eating shots to the face while they take the body, and an eventual knee with the takedown.
 
takedown is a late round idea and only if the above is not running smoothly.

staying at range and throwing body/leg kicks is designed to avoid his stupidly heavy hands. i swear he's cheating somehow to drop diego in a single punch considering how nothing even at 170 put him down.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I think Aoki has a good chance of winning a decision against BJ. Aoki's style is ridiculously hard to train for. Anyway I'm annoyed at Diego's coaching staff. He had all the tools to win, but absolutely no correct gameplan.

Anyway without further ado, this is HOW TO BEAT BJ PENN.

1. BJ Penn's chin is invincible. All head-hunting punches are useless. Discard them.
2. BJ Penn loses the "long-fight" often. If punches must be thrown, go to the body. Occasionally throw in hooks and what not to keep his hands up, but the intention should be to damage the body.
3. BJ Penn is no kickboxer. Leg kicks are effective against him, and reduce his resistance to takedowns and help win in the later rounds. Throw often but watching counter punches. See Jardine vs. Chuck for examples.
4. Body kicks. Your leg kicks and body kicks will bring his hands down along with your body punches. Occasionally throw head kicks to keep his hands up.
5. Explosive Double-Leg Takedowns. BJ is nearly immune to the single-leg. He has shown to be susceptible to a very fast double leg that is set up correctly with striking.

Follow these steps and you can win.
Where was Diego's corner with this strat?!?!?!!?!?

Diego needs Greg Jackson I guess.[/QUOTE]


GREAT ANALYSIS!:applause: I don't think any contender can rely on BJ being outta shape again. Explosive leg kicks will definitely wear him down.
Is there someone as strong as GSP in the double leg takedown? Probably not in the LW class but hopefully the next fighter for BJ will
implement a better strategy and work on the points you made. You speak Japanese? Aoki could use a good strategist :D.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I think Aoki has a good chance of winning a decision against BJ. Aoki's style is ridiculously hard to train for.[/QUOTE]

there is no way aoki lasts 5 rounds to win a dec.
dream has those long first rounds which weigh heavily. hes able to get a hold of someone and hang all over them looking for subs. his stand up defense is not 10 years from being able to handle bj. having to close the distance every round isnt going to happen.

id LOVE to see that fight on the ground, itd be beautiful.

sherk has the best double leg at 155
you have to be an outstanding wrestler and be stronger than bj.
obviously gsp. someone like hendo i think is perfect stylistically but theres nobody like that at 155.
 
[quote name='redshadow']You guys seem to forget that BJ is one of the UFCs best strikers and he's got extremely heavy hands. All those points are good, but if you expect someone to beat him at 155 like that, good luck. They'll be eating shots to the face while they take the body, and an eventual knee with the takedown.[/QUOTE]

Well, I think the bigger issue is employing the best strategy possible, which those points would do. Whether it would win you the fight or not is debatable. But it sure as hell would get you a lot further than what Diego did in there. That's why I thought Florian's fight against BJ was better. He just tried for the takedown too early.

Kenny also has far better leg kicks than Diego, not to mention, he's a smarter fighter (and doesn't waste his time coming up with "scary faces"). With his new trainer and a similar strategy to the one Kuroi mentioned, I think Kenny could beat him.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Well, I think the bigger issue is employing the best strategy possible, which those points would do. Whether it would win you the fight or not is debatable. But it sure as hell would get you a lot further than what Diego did in there. That's why I thought Florian's fight against BJ was better. He just tried for the takedown too early.

Kenny also has far better leg kicks than Diego, not to mention, he's a smarter fighter (and doesn't waste his time coming up with "scary faces"). With his new trainer and a similar strategy to the one Kuroi mentioned, I think Kenny could beat him.[/QUOTE]

florian doesnt have the takedowns required and even if he did hes not capable of holding bj down. the only hope in that plan is to try and simply score points with takedowns.
i think bj would maul florian on the ground and doubt florian wants to tailor a gameplan to get him there.
 
There is no one on 155 who can take BJ down and keep him there. Maynard probably has the best chance to get BJ down, but all Gray does is lay and pray and that won't work on BJ unless you outweigh him, much like GSP.

Simply put, there is no one at 155 that can beat BJ. And that's not just the UFC 155 division, I am talking no one in the world.
 
Sherk/Griffin/etc have good takedowns but I think it's important to not be really short vs. BJ to reduce his ability to counter you.

Aoki is extremely tall and strong at 160. If he punishes BJ with kicks/teeps over and over again BJ will wear down. I didn't say Aoki would dominate or tap him but he can win.

Sukoshi nihongo wakarimasu.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']Sherk/Griffin/etc have good takedowns but I think it's important to not be really short vs. BJ to reduce his ability to counter you.

Aoki is extremely tall and strong at 160. If he punishes BJ with kicks/teeps over and over again BJ will wear down. I didn't say Aoki would dominate or tap him but he can win.

Sukoshi nihongo wakarimasu.[/QUOTE]

thats sorta what he did to shaolin
 
No one is going to beat BJ on the ground. The guy is no joke on the mat.

Hell, he had Matt Hughes in a triangle for at least a minute last time they fought.
 
[quote name='redshadow']No one is going to beat BJ on the ground. The guy is no joke on the mat.

Hell, he had Matt Hughes in a triangle for at least a minute last time they fought.[/QUOTE]

matts good but hes not the same as someone like aoki.
 
Lots of decisions in this one I called all the winners but thought BJ would sub Sanchez. Mir really surprised me and was in great shape(he looks like he's on a mission definitely). BJ didn't really surprise me looked even better than when he faced Florian(due to being more used to his training regiment). He will be champion for awhile no one at LW can touch him. Hell Couture, GSP and Sherk have all said that it's next to impossible to take down Penn when he is fresh. GSP took him down but he had to really work for the take downs. Just think if BJ had been serious from the start and not just skating by on talent alone.....

See around 1:15 in the vid some SICK take down defense!

[youtube] [/youtube]
 
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[quote name='seen']I was bored and found this Cagepotato interview with Ring girls Natasha and Logan after UFC 106; I'm not saying they're experts but interesting comments nonetheless.

http://www.rawvegas.tv/watch/ufc-oc...ury-at-ufc-106/fb52fc060c8a49412b1418c47f5a17
[/QUOTE]

Looks like that clip I posted previously might have gotten Logan and Natasha fired; oh well I personally appreciated their honesty. I suspect replacements are on the way!
 
[quote name='seen']Looks like that clip I posted previously might have gotten Logan and Natasha fired; oh well I personally appreciated their honesty. I suspect replacements are on the way![/QUOTE]

That's freaking lame. Logan was my favorite. She's hot as hell, man. I doubt it was because of that clip though. They didn't say anything that Joe Rogan didn't say, and they didn't show on replay over and over again. It was obvious Koscheck didn't get poked in the eye, and he's a hugely vindictive prick.

As for Logan and Natasha, other theories I've read were that Arianny was jealous and worked into her contract negotiation that the two not be brought back. Also, they're only hiring one new Octagon Girl. Her name is Chandella Powell. She was in Playboy (which I probably have somewhere...but I don't feel like looking for it). Oddly, this is the only picture of her I can find online. I'm not really impressed.

ringgirl-300x267.jpg


If Scott Coker is paying any attention at all, he'd offer Logan and Natasha jobs at Strikeforce.
 
Just watched the Garcia / Gamburyan WEC fight. Very entertaining. By the end it was starting to look like an actual fight fight. I think Garcia was getting pissed and started trash talking and then Gamburyan started getting pissed at that.
 
[quote name='seen']Looks like that clip I posted previously might have gotten Logan and Natasha fired; oh well I personally appreciated their honesty. I suspect replacements are on the way![/QUOTE]


Koscheck faked the eye injury?


Here, bitch. Let me knee you with your elbow up against your face, and see if it doesn't hurt. Lolol.
 
[quote name='redshadow']Koscheck faked the eye injury?


Here, bitch. Let me knee you with your elbow up against your face, and see if it doesn't hurt. Lolol.[/QUOTE]

If your talking about the fight against Johnson, he did fake the eye injury.
 
@redshadow - It was faked. Johnson's knee glanced off the right side of Koschecks face .. it may have even missed his face entirely but when Koscheck stood up he was squinting his left eye.
 
complete ridiculousness. the knee didnt cause the eye issue, a finger did.
the guy fights whoever, whenever, off short notice, it doesnt matter. but hes going to fake an eye poke for a minutes rest? he wasnt getting worked over at any point in that fight but he needed to cheat his way to a breather? get the fuck outta here.
 
I'll have to watch the fight again, but I remember the knee connecting solidly to his elbow, and his elbow right on his face.

There was no knee-face contact, but fuck if it's not still an illegal blow that hurts.
 
I too thought Kos was faking the eye poke, but why would he do so and then continue to fight? No way he was gassed and needed a breather. I'm not a fan of his whatsoever, but you do have to give the guy credit for getting in the cage so often, and usually on short notice.
 
^What? Until that knee from Johnson it looked like he was going to put Kos away; after Kos got his "breather" he was able to refocus to his gameplan. Weak move Kos for "MMA whiner of the Year!"
 
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