MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce

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If anyone is interested in watching Strikeforce: Challengers 7 and you don't have Showtime, you're in luck because Showtime is having a free weekend starting tomorrow until Midnight Sunday. The show starts at 2345 EST (I believe) the fight card is listed below.

Lavar Johnson vs. Lolohea Mahe
Andre Galvao vs. Luke Stewart
Ron Humphrey vs. George Bush
Miesha Tate vs. Zoila Frausto
Shamar Bailey vs. Justin Wilcox
Daniel Cormier vs. John Devine
Ben Holscher vs. Alexander Trevino
 
[quote name='CSKit']Do you know what ducking someone is? Getting a hand injury isn't ducking someone, he got into a bar fight and messed up his hand. Stupid yes, ducking no. He was previously signed to fight in K-1, if he felt he was ready to participate in the GP, that's fine, remember K-1 gloves are 12oz bigger than MMA gloves.[/QUOTE]

I guess it depends on whether you buy the hand injury excuse or not. You do. Josh doesn't. I don't think it matters either way. What we've seen in his handling of Overeem and now Fedor, is that Scott Coker is a pushover, and lets his star fighters do pretty much whatever they want. I blame him way more than I do Overeem.

[quote name='CSKit']Overeem stated he was taking the fights in DREAM to "stay active" while competing in the GP and that 2010 would be the year for his return to Strikeforce.

Prior to 2009 name one quality HW that was worth defending the title against. That's right, you can't. Until EliteXC folded Strikeforce had nothing for a roster, should Alistair fought "The Headhunter" again?[/QUOTE]

My problem with this is that as the Heavyweight Champion, he should have been made to fight. "Quality Competition" or not, it's what you're selling. I think we're all in agreement this was Coker's fault though. Allowing the Heavyweight belt in his promotion to go undefended for 2 years is like admitting how irrelevant that division is. Even if you just put Overeem in there to destroy people, it still gets his name out there, and it adds to his legacy. Coker should have forced the issue, and if Overeem was unwilling to defend, then strip him of the title.

[quote name='CSKit']I'm not sure if you remember this but Overeem used to cut from 230lbs to make MW (Pride's 205 class) that's why he would gas after looking great for three minutes. On NYE he weighed in at 259.6, that's roughly 30lbs in 4 years. How much has Frank Mir gained in the last year, trying to bulk up for Brock Lesnar? Is Mir on steroids? He blew up faster than Overeem did.[/QUOTE]

Mir has had weight problems in the past though. After his accident, he blew up to 260+ lbs, and just looked like a fat slob. Putting on weight has never been an issue for him. It's been doing it the right way. I'm not convinced that the added bulk will do him any favors, because I still think he looks too beefy. But he at least seems to have done it the right way this time. Not sure how it will affect his speed and agility though.
 
Thompson had 4 losses leading up to the Overeem bout and that was his fifth defeat. I'll be more specific next time; I wasn't concerned about Thompson's record post-Overeem.

As far as the HW options for Strikeforce, what about Yvel, Monson, Choi, or Barnett? Were they under exclusive contracts too? Could Strikeforce just not afford them?

Mir gained but he's still pretty soft around the mid-section. His gain was believable because as n8rockerasu stated he has done it before and if you look at him, he didn't drop too much body fat percentage. If he bulked to 265 and looked like Cheik Kongo (in terms of muscle mass) I'd be concerned.

Glad we can agree on at least one thing, that the belt should have been stripped. :lol:

How will this next fight with Rogers prove anything about steroid use? If Overeem loses convincingly (unlikely) are we supposed to believe he's squeaky clean? It will take time and multiple consistent title defense bouts to prove if he's on anything or not.
 
anyone who has any time in the gym, and bodybuilding knows "the look" someone has when they are "on". Some of these idiots are better than others at getting away with it even when drug testing exist. Either Steroids or GH, you pick but when they are off, you will see them shrink, their aggresion will go in the shitter, and they become a total different fighter
 
[quote name='Bmac1775']anyone who has any time in the gym, and bodybuilding knows "the look" someone has when they are "on". Some of these idiots are better than others at getting away with it even when drug testing exist. Either Steroids or GH, you pick but when they are off, you will see them shrink, their aggresion will go in the shitter, and they become a total different fighter[/QUOTE]

This guy is 100% dead on. Played football with a dude in high school who took em. Too bad he could not translate all that unearned muscle to football, the dude sucked. I don't really know anything about overeem and I am not one to judge, you still got to work hard, but him not defending his title makes you think.
 
[quote name='JoshTX']As far as the HW options for Strikeforce, what about Yvel, Monson, Choi, or Barnett? Were they under exclusive contracts too? Could Strikeforce just not afford them?[/QUOTE]

Not entirely sure why Strikeforce didn't pick any of those guys up. Monson's a LHW now, Hong Man-Choi (do you mean Hong Man, or Mu Bae?) can't make 265, Yvel is with the UFC and Barnett kills promotions and a 3x juicer. :p

[quote name='JoshTX']Glad we can agree on at least one thing, that the belt should have been stripped. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Yep, always a bright side.

[quote name='JoshTX']How will this next fight with Rogers prove anything about steroid use? If Overeem loses convincingly (unlikely) are we supposed to believe he's squeaky clean? It will take time and multiple consistent title defense bouts to prove if he's on anything or not.[/QUOTE]

The outcome of the fight won't prove anything, but the pre-fight drug test will tell if he's juicing or not(or at least cycling properly).
 
There are only 3 heavyweights not in the UFC as far as I'm concerned.

Barnett, Fedor, Overeem.

These 3 must fight each other or all is a waste.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']There are only 3 heavyweights not in the UFC as far as I'm concerned.

Barnett, Fedor, Overeem.

These 3 must fight each other or all is a waste.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, although I would put Rogers in that group as well and possibly take Barnett out. Barnett hasn't fought anyone decent in years, and the cans he has been facing he hasn't exactly murdered either.

Overeem got really big really quick, so that always leads to talk of steroids. I remember reading somewhere that he eats a lot of horse meat and credits that for his grouth. Sounds wild, but you never know, I am not an expect in horse meat :lol:
 
[quote name='Pavel6969']Agreed, although I would put Rogers in that group as well and possibly take Barnett out. Barnett hasn't fought anyone decent in years, and the cans he has been facing he hasn't exactly murdered either.[/QUOTE]

I'd extend the list to five and I'll add their SB Nation ranking:

#1 Fedor Emelianenko
#8 Brett Rogers
#9 Alistair Overeem
#10 Andrei Arlovski
#11 Josh Barnett

I would agree that the UFC has the deepest HW division, but to Strikeforce's credit they have the second best, including the consensus best HW in the world. In Josh's defense, he tried to face both #19 Tim Sylvia and #17 Antonio Silva at DREAM.13 but neither accepted, so he fought the only man to accept NR "Mighty Mo".

I also wouldn't consider all of Barnett's opponents since Pride FC's demise cans, they're all ranked in the top 25, the exception being Hidehiko Yoshida. His other opponents where #21 Jeff Monson, #16 Pedro Rizzo and current UFC HW #25 Gilbert Yvel none of these being "cans". For an article on what qualifies on a can Deo Wade wrote a good one at Bloody Elbow you can read it here.
[quote name='Pavel6969']Overeem got really big really quick, so that always leads to talk of steroids. I remember reading somewhere that he eats a lot of horse meat and credits that for his grouth. Sounds wild, but you never know, I am not an expect in horse meat :lol:[/QUOTE]

Here's the video of Alistair explaining his diet.
 
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Fights this Weekend:
March 26, 2010

Strikeforce Challengers VII
Save Mart Center at Fresno State,
Fresno, California, United States
Channel: Showtime 11:00 PM EST

Lavar Johnson vs. Lolohea Mahe
Andre Galvao vs. Luke Stewart
Ron Humphrey vs. George Bush
Miesha Tate vs. Zoila Frausto
Shamar Bailey vs. Justin Wilcox
Daniel Cormier vs. John Devine
Ben Holscher vs. Alexander Trevino

King of the Cage: Legacy
Silver Legacy Casino,
Reno, Nevada, United States
Channel: HD Net 10:00 PM EST

Mike Kyle vs.Jon Murphy
Tony Lopez vs. Tony Johnson
Quinn Mulhern  vs. Koffi Adzitso
Jaime Jara  vs. Tim Means 
Nick Gaston vs. Mike Guidry 

March 27, 2010

UFC 111 St. Pierre vs. Hardy
Prudential Center,
Newark, New Jersey, United States
Watch: PPV

Georges St. Pierre vs. Dan Hardy
Frank Mir vs. Shane Carwin
Jon Fitch vs. Ben Saunders
Jim Miller vs. Mark Bocek
Kurt Pellegrino vs. Fabricio Camoes
Ricardo Almeida vs. Matt Brown
Nate Diaz vs. Rory Markham
Rodney Wallace vs. Jared Hamman
Rousimar Palhares vs. Tomasz Drwal
Matt Riddle vs. Greg Soto
 
[quote name='CSKit']I'd extend the list to five and I'll add their SB Nation ranking:

#1 Fedor Emelianenko
#8 Brett Rogers
#9 Alistair Overeem
#10 Andrei Arlovski
#11 Josh Barnett

I would agree that the UFC has the deepest HW division, but to Strikeforce's credit they have the second best, including the consensus best HW in the world. In Josh's defense, he tried to face both #19 Tim Sylvia and #17 Antonio Silva at DREAM.13 but neither accepted, so he fought the only man to accept NR "Mighty Mo".

I also wouldn't consider all of Barnett's opponents since Pride FC's demise cans, they're all ranked in the top 25, the exception being Hidehiko Yoshida. His other opponents where #21 Jeff Monson, #16 Pedro Rizzo and current UFC HW #25 Gilbert Yvel none of these being "cans". For an article on what qualifies on a can Deo Wade wrote a good one at Bloody Elbow you can read it here.
[/QUOTE]

Can was definitely the wrong word, but Barnett still hasn't fought anyone impressive in years. I am sorry, but there isn't anyone inside the top ten, and all those guys you listed that he has beaten are all on the downside of their careers. There is a steep dropoff from the guys in the top ten and those outside. I don't see anyone outside the top ten (top nine really since Arlovski will never been top tier again) who will ever move up the rankings.

I'm not saying Barnett sucks by any stretch, but I for one don't get why everyone wants to see him face Fedor. Just another easy fight for Fedor. I honestly don't think Overeem would have much chance against Fedor either.
 
[quote name='Pavel6969']I'm not saying Barnett sucks by any stretch, but I for one don't get why everyone wants to see him face Fedor. Just another easy fight for Fedor. I honestly don't think Overeem would have much chance against Fedor either.[/QUOTE]

The current plan is to have Fedor face the winner of Barnett vs. Overeem at Dynamite!! 2010, given both Fedor and Overeem win their upcoming fights.
 
[quote name='CSKit']The current plan is to have Fedor face the winner of Barnett vs. Overeem at Dynamite!! 2010, given both Fedor and Overeem win their upcoming fights.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if they'll have to paste images of the M-1 Global logo all over the place in order for this to happen. :roll:
 
[quote name='JoshTX']I wonder if they'll have to paste images of the M-1 Global logo all over the place in order for this to happen. :roll:[/QUOTE]

That'd be lame, if it happened hopefully K-1 ignores M-1 like CBS did at Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers, lol! I think I should start overusing a smiley too, I choose :whee:
 
People that unavenged wins over Josh Barnett:

CroCop (in his prime)

THAT'S IT. The guy is pretty damn good to say the least.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']People that unavenged wins over Josh Barnett:

CroCop (in his prime)

THAT'S IT. The guy is pretty damn good to say the least.[/QUOTE]

The issue with Barnett is that nobody believes his shit anymore. He's tested positive what 2 or 3 times now? Alot of people probably either don't take him seriously or don't want to fight him if they think he's on something.
 
[quote name='WrexManor']Going to watch UFC in theaters. Waste of money?[/QUOTE]

Yes, unless they allow you to drink beers in the theatre.
 
[quote name='WrexManor']Going to watch UFC in theaters. Waste of money?[/QUOTE]


My prediction with the theater thing is that there will probably be a ton of teenagers in there since they can't go to a sports bar to watch it. And when you get alot of teens in a movie theater together they tend to get pretty disruptive. It probably wouldn't make for the best experience, even though some of the drunks in the sports bars aren't much better when they are completely wasted by the time the main event rolls around.
 
I think if you want to see it at the movies, just drop another 25 and order it at home and split the costs. You can also go to Hooters or Buffalo wild wings, BWW always show the fights.
 
My predictions for tonight:

GSP beats Hardy (choke)
Mir beats Carwin (leg lock)
Pellegrino beats Camoes (ko)
Fitch beats Saunders (decision)

Diaz beats Markham (triangle)
Almeda beats Brown (decision)
 
Wow, I'm becoming a big fan of Kurt Pellegrino. He's looked great his last two times out. And he showed some really good, active wrestling tonight. That's the kind of wrestling I can appreciate.
 
Yeah, wow. My ONLY disappointment with GSP is that he didn't teach Dan Hardy a lesson in how to not miss 2 months of training. If the guy isn't willing to tap, break his fucking arm and then let him think about how he's going to spend his time while he's on the shelf. It's like GSP was applying the pressure like "Ok...I'm pressing down. Do you feel that? Hello?" And then he lets him escape. I know Georges is a nice guy, but dammit, sometimes you have to send a message.
 
No love for Carwin? I was so happy to see him knock Mir the fuck out. GSP showed his dominance as usual, and I wondered for half a second if he was going to rip Hardy's arm off and beat him with it.
 
[quote name='JoshTX']The issue with Barnett is that nobody believes his shit anymore. He's tested positive what 2 or 3 times now? Alot of people probably either don't take him seriously or don't want to fight him if they think he's on something.[/QUOTE]

lol @ thinking that the vast majority of fighters outside and some inside the US aren't on something of some kind. the stuff's everywhere and it's very effective. if your livelihood is on the line, most would at least consider it.

i've heard enough from mma insiders to cement in my mind barnett is just amazingly bad at getting caught/sworn enemy of the NSAC(CSAC?).

in other news i was 100% in my UFC picks tonight. i'm not sure how carwin matches up vs. lesnar but i can't wait to find out.

the gulf between gsp and his competitors is massive. they often can't even win 5 seconds of an entire fight. gsp vs. silva dana, make it happen!
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, wow. My ONLY disappointment with GSP is that he didn't teach Dan Hardy a lesson in how to not miss 2 months of training. If the guy isn't willing to tap, break his fucking arm and then let him think about how he's going to spend his time while he's on the shelf. It's like GSP was applying the pressure like "Ok...I'm pressing down. Do you feel that? Hello?" And then he lets him escape. I know Georges is a nice guy, but dammit, sometimes you have to send a message.[/QUOTE]

I gotta say, I have respect for GSP, he doesn't have to win by any means necessary. He just went on and dominated him on the ground.:)
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']No love for Carwin? I was so happy to see him knock Mir the fuck out. GSP showed his dominance as usual, and I wondered for half a second if he was going to rip Hardy's arm off and beat him with it.[/QUOTE]

I was impressed. Even the smallest jabs from Carwin were doing serious damage. That small flurry of punches from the inside had Mir crumpling. It's going to be interesting to see if Lesnar's face can withstand somethig like that.
 
That final prelim match they showed was like the greatest thing in the world after watching that GSP-dominated main event. Accountant-lookin' white guy gets the shit knocked out of him by totally stacked black guy...yet still manages to win, while both guys look ridiculously sloppy. Fun stuff.

Expected Carwin to pull it off and he did. The fight with Brock should be fun.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Yeah, wow. My ONLY disappointment with GSP is that he didn't teach Dan Hardy a lesson in how to not miss 2 months of training. If the guy isn't willing to tap, break his fucking arm and then let him think about how he's going to spend his time while he's on the shelf. It's like GSP was applying the pressure like "Ok...I'm pressing down. Do you feel that? Hello?" And then he lets him escape. I know Georges is a nice guy, but dammit, sometimes you have to send a message.[/QUOTE]

Yeah GSP is a classy guy. I think he let go on purpose because he didn't want to rip his arm off. There was a couple of time he looked up at the ref to see if he's going to stop it. But I'm pretty sure most guys, including myself, would rip Hardy's arm off and beat him with it if we are in GSP situation.
 
What about Nate Diaz? I was impressed there as well...moving up a weight class, Rory Markham was still about 6 or 7 pounds heavier, and Nate just completely dismantled him.
 
I've pretty excited for Florian/Gomi. I see Florian submitting him, but who knows? Gomi hits really fucking hard for a LW and has a tremendous chin. Should be fun.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']I've pretty excited for Florian/Gomi. I see Florian submitting him, but who knows? Gomi hits really fucking hard for a LW and has a tremendous chin. Should be fun.[/QUOTE]

my feelings exactly. I REALLY want to see a game gomi ko florian.
i dont see it happening but id LOVE it. lw needs a shake up its so stale.

edit -

id like to hear opinions on nick diaz against gsp.

the more gsp fights ufc guys the more i want that match-up.
At this point hes the only WW i see with an actual chance at beating gsp.
 
[quote name='paz9x']my feelings exactly. I REALLY want to see a game gomi ko florian.
i dont see it happening but id LOVE it. lw needs a shake up its so stale.

edit -

id like to hear opinions on nick diaz against gsp.

the more gsp fights ufc guys the more i want that match-up.
At this point hes the only WW i see with an actual chance at beating gsp.[/QUOTE]

Interesting match-up. Haven't seen Diaz on his back much or even take on anyone that has the kind of takedown skill that GSP has though. He trains with Cesar Gracie but how much better would he fare on the mat than Hardy?
 
[quote name='JoshTX']Interesting match-up. Haven't seen Diaz on his back much or even take on anyone that has the kind of takedown skill that GSP has though. He trains with Cesar Gracie but how much better would he fare on the mat than Hardy?[/QUOTE]

seriously? their ground games arent even comparable. diaz is VERY good on the ground, i think hes more dangerous off his back than anyone gsp has fought.
Thats the only fight I want to see gsp in at 170.
 
I went 100% on predictions (although I though GSP would sub Hardy and Pelligrino would win by D). I really don't like Nate Diaz but I have to say I was impressed with his showing Saturday night. Carwin did what I thought he would do but I was still surprising how quickly he dispatched Mir (even though none of Carwin's fights have went to a second round). Carwin vs Brock should be a great match-up. GSP continues to dominate the WW division and I really don't see that changing in the near future(shields could if the UFC signs him). Nick Diaz might be able to give GSP a challenge but GSP has proven he can control BJJ guys on the ground.
 
[quote name='evildeadjedi']GSP continues to dominate the WW division and I really don't see that changing in the near future(shields could if the UFC signs him). Nick Diaz might be able to give GSP a challenge but GSP has proven he can control BJJ guys on the ground.[/QUOTE]

you think shields has a better shot than diaz? I dont see a single area shields is better than nick.
theres a difference in styles of bjj, from the bottom I dont think bj is very dangerous to elite grapplers like gsp, neither is serra IMO. outside of those two he hasnt fought anybody with top level bjj.
 
The only person who can defeat GSP will be someone who has tremendous take-down defense and great striking. Unfortunately no one at this time has the skill to stuff GSP's take-downs. Nick Diaz would murder GSP on the feet, and we be a threat from his back, but GSP will just lay on him for five rounds like he does everyone else.
 
[quote name='Pavel6969']Nick Diaz would murder GSP on the feet, and we be a threat from his back[/QUOTE]

Someone's drinking the Stockon Kool-Aid pretty hard.
This is a guy who beat a lackluster Gomi and who else? Zaromskis?

The win over Z is great and all but MURDER GSP ON THE FEET?!?
Sure Diaz used his big reach/height advantage to hold off Marius, but GSP is taller and has a better reach. I don't know if the jab, jab, jab approach would work out well for him, especially when Diaz doesn't really kick enough.

It could wind up being a great fight, or Diaz's night even...still MURDER. Doesn't seem likely since it took Serra a huge forearm to the back of the head and repeated full force punches to put GSP away.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']Someone's drinking the Stockon Kool-Aid pretty hard.
This is a guy who beat a lackluster Gomi and who else? Zaromskis?

The win over Z is great and all but MURDER GSP ON THE FEET?!?
Sure Diaz used his big reach/height advantage to hold off Marius, but GSP is taller and has a better reach. I don't know if the jab, jab, jab approach would work out well for him, especially when Diaz doesn't really kick enough.

It could wind up being a great fight, or Diaz's night even...still MURDER. Doesn't seem likely since it took Serra a huge forearm to the back of the head and repeated full force punches to put GSP away.[/QUOTE]

haha yeah i dunno about murdering gsp on the feet. i dont think a striker not named anderson silva has a chance of beating him (short of a punchers chance). the reason is nobody commits to their strikes because of gsp's ability to transition to takedowns. no striker wants any part of being under gsp so theyre extremely tentative.

If anybody beats gsp its a guy with very good submissions and an aggressive bottom game.

obviously thats my opinion but weve seen numerous strikers get taken down again and again and again and offer nothing for gsp from their backs.

diaz is a couple inches taller than gsp without seeing measurements im fairly sure his reach is longer or atleast very similar, though i think you were comparing gsp to zaromskis.
 
[quote name='paz9x']though i think you were comparing gsp to zaromskis.[/QUOTE]

agreed. z is 5'9" and gsp is 5'11" vs 6'1" diaz. according to some sources GSP actually has the longer reach, but i don't think i believe that.
 
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