MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) Thread: UFC/Strikeforce

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[quote name='bigpimpin24']Speaking of stacked divisions, don't forget about the Heavyweights. Who thinks Dos Santos vs Velasquez is a possibility? That'd be pretty sweet =p[/QUOTE]

Velasquez has already been promised a title shot at the winner of Carwin-Lesnar, if I remember right. As long as Dos Santos doesn't suffer another loss, or if he just waits it out, he will probably be next in line for that shot.

If the Carwin-Lesnar fight ends up being a close bout, I could see them giving the next title shot to Velasquez and in the meantime the loser of Carwin-Lesnar could fight Dos Santos for the next shot.
 
[quote name='Pavel6969'] GSP by lay and pray for all 5 rounds.
[/QUOTE]

More and more people keep saying this now and I still don't get it. Have I been watching the wrong fights but why are so many people now putting GSP into the lay and pray category? There's a difference between lay and pray and domination on the ground. GSP dominates fighters on the ground. Just looking back to the fight with Hardy he was constantly improving his position and tried multiple submissions. He came very close to ending the fight a couple times.
 
[quote name='bg88']More and more people keep saying this now and I still don't get it. Have I been watching the wrong fights but why are so many people now putting GSP into the lay and pray category? There's a difference between lay and pray and domination on the ground. GSP dominates fighters on the ground. Just looking back to the fight with Hardy he was constantly improving his position and tried multiple submissions. He came very close to ending the fight a couple times.[/QUOTE]

I've been saying the same thing, but nobody gets it. Getting 10+ takedowns in a fight is also pretty tough to do for a lay & pray fighter. Why? Because by definition, lay & pray is stalling the fight and wasting a round. In a title fight, averaging 3 takedowns per round is extremely active. That doesn't account for striking on the feet, submission attempts, etc...all of which GSP has had in his last several decisions.

A common thread with lay & pray wrestlers (especially all these Division I All Americans we always hear about) is that they're so conscious of losing the "dominant position" that they don't try risky maneuvers which could allow their opponent to get up. That's why we saw Koscheck dry humping Daley all over the octagon. And it's the same thing Shields does as well. GSP wouldn't get 10+ takedowns in a fight if he wasn't trying things and giving his opponents opportunities to get up.

Doubt many people will be able to grasp that concept, but hell, I tried.
 
I still say that unless Machida changes up his style, he won't get near the title again. The reason he was dominating is because no one could figure out how to attack him. Now that Rua showed the world how it is done, the rest will follow. Machida is still effective, but against other elite fighters I don't see him winning.

GSP isn't a bad lay and pray fighter, but two sub attempts in a five round fight isn't the most exciting fight either. He clearly isn't as bad as most wrestlers who do absolutely nothing once they get the takedown, but his style still bores me. Ever since Serra knocked him out, he is flat out afraid to stand with anyone and just goes for takedown after takedown. I guess I just find him boring more than anything.
 
Shogun basically just got pretty lucky as Machida's block didn't intercept enough of the blow to stop him from getting rocked. Then he super-unfortunately fell under mount instead of guard, as he was awake when the mount began. When two light heavyweights stand in front of each other and bang, its anyone's game for the most part.

Props to Shogun on the win, but I wasn't really very impressed with his gameplan/performance up to that punch.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']Shogun basically just got pretty lucky as Machida's block didn't intercept enough of the blow to stop him from getting rocked. [/QUOTE]

as unbelieveable as the existence of an intelligent thread on sherdog is, there is actually one analyzing that exchange after the knee. it shows machida attempting a parry with his right on shoguns left and throwing the straight left, it shows several instances in previous fights were he does the exact movements. in the exchange, shogun very slightly feints a jab before he throws that over hand. machida goes for that same reaction to parry and throw the straight. shogun throws the overhand and slips the straight.

i dont think thats luck at all.
 
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[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']Shogun basically just got pretty lucky as Machida's block didn't intercept enough of the blow to stop him from getting rocked. Then he super-unfortunately fell under mount instead of guard, as he was awake when the mount began. When two light heavyweights stand in front of each other and bang, its anyone's game for the most part.

Props to Shogun on the win, but I wasn't really very impressed with his gameplan/performance up to that punch.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you've never seen any of Shogun's fights from his PRIDE days, but what you saw Saturday night was the Shogun of old. That had nothing to do with luck. When Shogun is on, Shogun is a fucking beast. He came in with the intent of destroying Machida, and he did exactly that.
 
[quote name='BoSoxFan900']Maybe you've never seen any of Shogun's fights from his PRIDE days, but what you saw Saturday night was the Shogun of old. That had nothing to do with luck. When Shogun is on, Shogun is a fucking beast. He came in with the intent of destroying Machida, and he did exactly that.[/QUOTE]

I've seen every Pride fight. I've been watching MMA for a very long time. The fact is Machida was doing very well and the knee right before the punch was brutal. A glancing hit off the temple was assuredly not Shogun's intent but it turned into the first punch in history to actually drop Machida. Then he conveniently wound up in mount instead of the usual guard due to their positioning. A very happy set of circumstances precipitated the end of the fight. I don't know if luck is the right word, but I certainly don't attribute it to some sort of insane skill on Shogun's part. Griffin/Silva is a display of skill that can't be argued.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I've seen every Pride fight. I've been watching MMA for a very long time. The fact is Machida was doing very well and the knee right before the punch was brutal. A glancing hit off the temple was assuredly not Shogun's intent but it turned into the first punch in history to actually drop Machida. Then he conveniently wound up in mount instead of the usual guard due to their positioning. A very happy set of circumstances precipitated the end of the fight. I don't know if luck is the right word, but I certainly don't attribute it to some sort of insane skill on Shogun's part. Griffin/Silva is a display of skill that can't be argued.[/QUOTE]

Well, how about "karma" then? Since Shogun got completely robbed in their first fight. Either way, the belt is where it should have been 7 months ago.
 
I don't think Shogun got robbed. I think both fighters put on very cautious/poor performances. Most exchanges went like this:

Shogun throws leg kick.
Machida lands counter punch.
Repeat x 500

There was no clear winner for the first 3 rounds at least, so its their own fault if they don't like the decision. I'm with Dana on this one, don't leave it to the judges and you'll never have regrets.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I don't think Shogun got robbed. I think both fighters put on very cautious/poor performances. Most exchanges went like this:

Shogun throws leg kick.
Machida lands counter punch.
Repeat x 500

There was no clear winner for the first 3 rounds at least, so its their own fault if they don't like the decision. I'm with Dana on this one, don't leave it to the judges and you'll never have regrets.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your last statement, which is why Shogun actively tried to destroy Machida in this last fight (and didn't just "get lucky"). But to say he didn't win the first fight is ridiculous. He pretty much controlled the entire fight and was striking at will. The only argument I could see is that the judges don't like to make the title change hands in a close fight...but then Frankie Edgar wouldn't have the LW belt right now. If you're going to call the fight a draw, call it a draw. But Machida sure as hell didn't win it.
 
i think it could have really gone either way. machida landed plenty of face punch counters. i should mention i watched this entire fight with no sound so whatever pro-shogun agenda rogan was spouting (which he always does) wasn't influencing my perception of the screen. frankly i just found the fight a huge letdown.
 
What a shitty show (Strikeforce). Arlovski and Rogers are done. Rogers looked like hot trash out there. For someone who claims he's ready and so hungry for a title, he was hesitant from the start, landed one strike, then proceeded to get smashed.

The rest of the card was ridiculously underwhelming. Strikeforce is such a bush league company.
 
[quote name='SEH']What a shitty show (Strikeforce). Arlovski and Rogers are done. Rogers looked like hot trash out there. For someone who claims he's ready and so hungry for a title, he was hesitant from the start, landed one strike, then proceeded to get smashed.

The rest of the card was ridiculously underwhelming. Strikeforce is such a bush league company.[/QUOTE]

i like roger gracie. he is a fucking amazing grappler, so good its unreal.
arlovski looked very off. bigfoot looked good though, it is what it is. its hard to judge since bigfoot is so big but arlovski looked like he lost some muscle mass too. no idea whats going on with him. the prefight stuff seemed like he had a wild camp but who knows.

as for rogers, i think he was scared of overeem. overeem is a monster. i couldnt stand him for a while and started to warm up to him before the crocop nut attacks pissed me off again. ive paid more attention to his videos and like the guy. i also dont think hes going to be failing the test.
he looked very good. rogers is a solid guy, any bullshit talk should be referred to his fight with fedor, nobody who sucks gives fedor that much trouble. though everyone fedor fights has a drop off after.

outside of those thoughts my only other opinion is that strikeforce has by far the worst broadcast teamive ever heard. theyre so fucking stupid it kills me. i especially loved their commentary when villasenor was on his back at the end of the fight and theyre talkign like hes pulling away with the fight, complete morons.
there needs to be a seperate feed cutting the commentary.
 
I enjoyed it. I was actually there in person, which makes any event fun. And like most Strikeforces, the undercard was awesome. I also met Anderson at the weigh ins if anyone cares..... I thought it was pretty cool...
 
[quote name='paz9x']
as for rogers, i think he was scared of overeem. overeem is a monster. i couldnt stand him for a while and started to warm up to him before the crocop nut attacks pissed me off again. ive paid more attention to his videos and like the guy. i also dont think hes going to be failing the test.
he looked very good. rogers is a solid guy, any bullshit talk should be referred to his fight with fedor, nobody who sucks gives fedor that much trouble. though everyone fedor fights has a drop off after.
Agreed. Rogers was very tentative, didn't want to commit to throwing any combinations and made a real half assed attempt at shooting in. I guess he was afraid of that guillotine Overeem is known for.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='CONMAN999']I enjoyed it. I was actually there in person, which makes any event fun. And like most Strikeforces, the undercard was awesome. I also met Anderson at the weigh ins if anyone cares..... I thought it was pretty cool...[/QUOTE]

does he speak english like sonnen says?
 
Well tonight we get to find out whether or not Tim Sylvia resurrects his career or totally destroys it. He should be destroying Pudz but he really doesn't look like he's in any better shape than he was in the Mercer fight, judging by the weigh-ins.
 
Resurrects his career? That's a bit generous don't ya' think? Not like all the major organizations are going to be beating down his door if he wins.
 
[quote name='SEH']Resurrects his career? That's a bit generous don't ya' think? Not like all the major organizations are going to be beating down his door if he wins.[/QUOTE]


Lol. Yeah it probably was too generous. He won the fight but Pudzianowski looked so bad that he probably wouldn't have even beaten Bob Sapp. Silly how Tim was all celebrating after it, too. :drool:
 
Tim hasn't show too much heart since his losses to Nog, Fedor and Ray Mercer. Yes, he has won his last two matches, but against tomato can talent.

I'll be honest; if he comes back up into top heavyweight significance at this point, I'll be a bit surprised.
 
Picks for tonight:

Rashad - decision
Bisping - ko
Duffee - ko
Lil Nog - submission (choke)
Sanchez - submission (choke)

Anyone catch Dream 14? I have it dvred but haven't had a chance to watch it. Looking forward to seeing Nick Diaz fight again.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']Picks for tonight:

Rashad - decision
Bisping - ko
Duffee - ko
Lil Nog - submission (choke)
Sanchez - submission (choke)

Anyone catch Dream 14? I have it dvred but haven't had a chance to watch it. Looking forward to seeing Nick Diaz fight again.[/QUOTE]

it was a solid event a few good fights some good finishes.
 
Rampage by KO (I pity da foo Evans!)
Miller by Split
Duffe by TKO
Lil Nog by TKO
Dirty Sanchez by UD

Dong Kim
Eazy E by KO
Mel G by GNP
Kane
Riley by D
Jensen
 
Only interested in the Rashad/Rampage fight tonight, I can see Rashad winning by decision if he can get Rampage down, but I don't think he can last all 3 rounds without getting hit.

Rampage by KO, late 2nd early 3rd
 
[quote name='icp_00_111']I think Rampage should win this fight. The main thing that has me worried is ring rust/conditioning.[/QUOTE]

Ditto. I'm more hyped for this fight than Liddel/Rampage. I Wanna see Evan's KNOCKED THE fuck OUT!
 
[quote name='icp_00_111']I think Rampage should win this fight. The main thing that has me worried is ring rust/conditioning.[/QUOTE]


Yeah thats why I picked Evans to win. I'm worried that Rampage will have a bit of rust and might not be taking his training seriously if he has any more movies in the works. Plus, Evans might do what he did to Thiago and just grind Rampage against the fence the whole fight. Although you have to assume Rampage is completely prepared for the grinding / takedown attempts.
 
[quote name='5of9']Ditto. I'm more hyped for this fight than Liddel/Rampage. I Wanna see Evan's KNOCKED THE fuck OUT![/QUOTE]

Yes, Sir.
I've been waiting for this fight for the longest. I sure hope Rampage beats the living shit out of Rashad.
 
[quote name='GUNNM']I hope overeem fails his piss test[/QUOTE]

Shock of shocks... he pissed clean. I know you're sad [rolls eyes]

Sadly, when/if Quinton loses to Rashad, there's a ready made excuse of ring rust. Yippee.
 
I just hope the ref will be able to keep Rampage from killing Rashad. I could see Rampage knocking Rashad out then throwing an extra 30 punches to the face until they finally manage to pull him off of Rashad
 
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