More Earthbound VC drama: It's not coming
- Thread starter Nohbdy
- Start date
It's better to link to the info site for EB VC at starmendotnet (the original source for joystiq's post):
http://starmen.net/ebvc/
Though their Mother infatuation is certainly justifiable, it's a shame the people behind starmen.net can't find some other unsung title to bring before the masses. They put together a quality site and good updates that are wasted given the various cluster
s surrounding the Mother games. Starmen.net woudl have built any other smaller, "cult" title into a resounding commercial success many times over by now.
Anyhow, no EB on VC. If only there were some way to play these older/unreleased titles...ah well.
EDIT: Just looked in the VC thread and they've already discussed this in great detail. Funny that another poster in that thread independently used the same word "cluster" to describe the Mother situation. Not that the word is particularly rare, just that the situation fits the def'n to a tee.
http://starmen.net/ebvc/
Though their Mother infatuation is certainly justifiable, it's a shame the people behind starmen.net can't find some other unsung title to bring before the masses. They put together a quality site and good updates that are wasted given the various cluster
s surrounding the Mother games. Starmen.net woudl have built any other smaller, "cult" title into a resounding commercial success many times over by now.Anyhow, no EB on VC. If only there were some way to play these older/unreleased titles...ah well.
EDIT: Just looked in the VC thread and they've already discussed this in great detail. Funny that another poster in that thread independently used the same word "cluster
" to describe the Mother situation. Not that the word is particularly rare, just that the situation fits the def'n to a tee.Cluster starts on here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209536&page=15
cochesecochese
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[quote name='dothog']Though their Mother infatuation is certainly justifiable, it's a shame the people behind starmen.net can't find some other unsung title to bring before the masses.[/quote]
Starmen.net should translate Itoi's fishing RPG's. They should also promote the hell out of the DQ 1-3 SFC remakes as well as DQ 4-6 since the DQ games were a big part of the basis of Earthbound.
Starmen.net should translate Itoi's fishing RPG's. They should also promote the hell out of the DQ 1-3 SFC remakes as well as DQ 4-6 since the DQ games were a big part of the basis of Earthbound.
Reality's Fringe
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You want proof there's no god? Here you go.
pochaccoheaven
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i never played it on a console or emulator but was hoping that it would be released for the virtual console to download and play. but it would definitely not happen because of those legal issues, especially the one in reference to music. nintendo is doing so well that the music licenses would probably ask more then what the market value is.
-Never4ever-
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I'd be sad, but then I remember that I can easily obtain all 3 games. For free.
Nintendo being a dick about the mother series is their fault. I would;ve easily payed ~$60 for all 3 EB games, but Nintendo doesn't want my money. Oh well, guess I'll just use it to buy something else. Something most likely 360 related
Nintendo being a dick about the mother series is their fault. I would;ve easily payed ~$60 for all 3 EB games, but Nintendo doesn't want my money. Oh well, guess I'll just use it to buy something else. Something most likely 360 related
You know what I don't understand? The people who care about Earthbound already have it on the SNES, and can play it anytime, so they don't need it on the VC. The people who have yet to play it probably don't care because they don't know how good it is. So, who's upset?
[quote name='FallMoon']You know what I don't understand? The people who care about Earthbound already have it on the SNES, and can play it anytime, so they don't need it on the VC. The people who have yet to play it probably don't care because they don't know how good it is. So, who's upset?[/QUOTE]
Earthbound on the VC has just been the latest focus of the Mother series fans (mostly the Starment.net folks). Getting Earthbound out on the VC was a chance to convince Nintendo that releasing Mother and Mother 3 stateside was a good idea.
Earthbound on the VC has just been the latest focus of the Mother series fans (mostly the Starment.net folks). Getting Earthbound out on the VC was a chance to convince Nintendo that releasing Mother and Mother 3 stateside was a good idea.
[quote name='FallMoon']You know what I don't understand? The people who care about Earthbound already have it on the SNES, and can play it anytime, so they don't need it on the VC. The people who have yet to play it probably don't care because they don't know how good it is. So, who's upset?[/QUOTE]
Foltzie had the right idea - it's more or less simply another battleground in the Earthbound war, where we're all losing against Nintendo's forces, which is little more than a gigantic middle finger statue.
It's mostly the blatantyouism that NoA displays toward the game. No other company in the entire industry can match Nintendo on that level - it's absolutely unheard of to see it in action quite as brutally as they deftly enact (inflict?). It would be one thing if the userbase wasn't energized, and instead was three or four doods screaming about how Totally Inaccessible Japanese Game No One Played wasn't being released. But it's not - it's cult classic material, which may or may not be convincingly big enough to warrant release. There's a built in (and extremely dedicated) audience - we'd buy it and attempt all those around us to try it. Free advertising on top of at least some guaranteed sales, the likes of which probably would place it as one of the top selling VC titles to date.
But at this point, it's just the entire failure as a whole. No VC release? Really? It's free money for them they are missing out on. Removing the demo from Brawl? That probably took more time and money than just leaving it there. Refusing to bring over Mother 3 because you're relying on sales of a game 12 years before that had little to no marketing push? Is all of this really necessary?
When you've got fervent, diehard fans, and then you absolutely dismiss or bitchslap them every chance you get, you're just making the beast angrier. This is why there's so much uproar. If it was just one thing over a long period of time, most of us would give up or move on or whatever. But it's a damned kick in the shins every possible time Nintendo can get one in, when most of us are simply asking them to either stop or attempt to appease us.
Shit, you ask Reggie about it, and he practically tells you to stfu. C'mon. There's no need for that - you can at least give us a half of a bone by saying "We're looking into it." That at least ALWAYS keeps the hope alive, instead of pissing on the ashes.
We're arguing with a brick wall here, except the brick wall is shooting bees at us, the bees are electrified AND on fire, both are super effective, and that's not even taking into account the bees the bees are shooting at us. You don't treat fans like that. You either put up or shut up, and since we can't get the straight answers we'd like to get, it's just an unbelievable amount of stupid to deal with.
I mean let's face it. The ESRB rating for Earthbound came at this UNBELIEVABLY convenient time for it to be a "mistake" on two parties' parts. I think EB had just been named the most wanted VC title again, or the M3 translation was almost out, and the ESRB rates the game immediately afterward. But it's just a mistake? Goddamn. It would be like buying someone a coat in the dead of winter after they lost their only coat, handing them the coat, telling them they can have it.....and then snatching it away while punching them in the face. Also, there's a blizzard outside.
It's all just so....cold. I think EB fans actually have legitimate frostbite from this whole ordeal.
Just google "Earthbound ESRB." Look at how many articles show up. That's a lot of damn hits for a seemingly innocuous game. And they ALL carry the same messages of excitement and enthusiastic joy. Yes, many also have the "this doesn't mean it's coming out," but every. last. damn. site. wants the game out. There's not a single "whatever" reaction - it's one of the most unifieding things in all of gamedom.
And Nintendo has to the gall to tell us all to eat shit?
Foltzie had the right idea - it's more or less simply another battleground in the Earthbound war, where we're all losing against Nintendo's forces, which is little more than a gigantic middle finger statue.
It's mostly the blatant
youism that NoA displays toward the game. No other company in the entire industry can match Nintendo on that level - it's absolutely unheard of to see it in action quite as brutally as they deftly enact (inflict?). It would be one thing if the userbase wasn't energized, and instead was three or four doods screaming about how Totally Inaccessible Japanese Game No One Played wasn't being released. But it's not - it's cult classic material, which may or may not be convincingly big enough to warrant release. There's a built in (and extremely dedicated) audience - we'd buy it and attempt all those around us to try it. Free advertising on top of at least some guaranteed sales, the likes of which probably would place it as one of the top selling VC titles to date.But at this point, it's just the entire failure as a whole. No VC release? Really? It's free money for them they are missing out on. Removing the demo from Brawl? That probably took more time and money than just leaving it there. Refusing to bring over Mother 3 because you're relying on sales of a game 12 years before that had little to no marketing push? Is all of this really necessary?
When you've got fervent, diehard fans, and then you absolutely dismiss or bitchslap them every chance you get, you're just making the beast angrier. This is why there's so much uproar. If it was just one thing over a long period of time, most of us would give up or move on or whatever. But it's a damned kick in the shins every possible time Nintendo can get one in, when most of us are simply asking them to either stop or attempt to appease us.
Shit, you ask Reggie about it, and he practically tells you to stfu. C'mon. There's no need for that - you can at least give us a half of a bone by saying "We're looking into it." That at least ALWAYS keeps the hope alive, instead of pissing on the ashes.
We're arguing with a brick wall here, except the brick wall is shooting bees at us, the bees are electrified AND on fire, both are super effective, and that's not even taking into account the bees the bees are shooting at us. You don't treat fans like that. You either put up or shut up, and since we can't get the straight answers we'd like to get, it's just an unbelievable amount of stupid to deal with.
I mean let's face it. The ESRB rating for Earthbound came at this UNBELIEVABLY convenient time for it to be a "mistake" on two parties' parts. I think EB had just been named the most wanted VC title again, or the M3 translation was almost out, and the ESRB rates the game immediately afterward. But it's just a mistake? Goddamn. It would be like buying someone a coat in the dead of winter after they lost their only coat, handing them the coat, telling them they can have it.....and then snatching it away while punching them in the face. Also, there's a blizzard outside.
It's all just so....cold. I think EB fans actually have legitimate frostbite from this whole ordeal.
Just google "Earthbound ESRB." Look at how many articles show up. That's a lot of damn hits for a seemingly innocuous game. And they ALL carry the same messages of excitement and enthusiastic joy. Yes, many also have the "this doesn't mean it's coming out," but every. last. damn. site. wants the game out. There's not a single "whatever" reaction - it's one of the most unified
ing things in all of gamedom.And Nintendo has to the gall to tell us all to eat shit?
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[quote name='FallMoon']You know what I don't understand? The people who care about Earthbound already have it on the SNES, and can play it anytime, so they don't need it on the VC. The people who have yet to play it probably don't care because they don't know how good it is. So, who's upset?[/quote]
I *had* it on the SNES when I was a kid, I don't have it now. I don't plan on paying through the nose for a used copy on eBay. that. I won't pay a premium for a game because it's rare, I'll find other means of playing it. If the people who made the game aren't getting my money, it's not my duty to buy it.
I *had* it on the SNES when I was a kid, I don't have it now. I don't plan on paying through the nose for a used copy on eBay.
that. I won't pay a premium for a game because it's rare, I'll find other means of playing it. If the people who made the game aren't getting my money, it's not my duty to buy it.
Reality's Fringe
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Wouldn't it be hilarious if this were Nintendo's plan all along? Get us all worked up, angry, hopeless and then BAM; ing go ALL out for a revival? I'm talking a full campaign just like in the 90's where we get scratch and sniff ads, a giant box, and a reprint/updating of the awesome original strategy guide.
And maybe my dick will start communicating with me via phrases in iambic pentameter.
ing go ALL out for a revival? I'm talking a full campaign just like in the 90's where we get scratch and sniff ads, a giant box, and a reprint/updating of the awesome original strategy guide. And maybe my dick will start communicating with me via phrases in iambic pentameter.
Kayden
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[quote name='MorPhiend']*Turns on Wii*
*Goes to Earthbound Channelt*
*plays for 2 hours*
*Hits Home to go back to the Wii menu*
*comes back 2 days later*
*Resumes where I left off*
Nintendon't want my money? Nintendon't get my money.
But I will play anyway...
>_>
[quote name='MorPhiend']*Turns on Wii*
*Goes to Earthbound Channelt*
*plays for 2 hours*
*Hits Home to go back to the Wii menu*
*comes back 2 days later*
*Resumes where I left off*
Nintendon't want my money? Nintendon't get my money.
But I will play anyway...
>_>
Reading that site, though, it sounds like they place the blame, at least in part, on the shoulders of the game developer, being unwilling to make changes to the game that would allow it to be released in the US, given NoA's lawyer's issues with it. NOTE: just trying to understand the situation here, not defending NoA. My question would be, what were the changes NoA wanted?
[quote name='crunchewy']Reading that site, though, it sounds like they place the blame, at least in part, on the shoulders of the game developer, being unwilling to make changes to the game that would allow it to be released in the US, given NoA's lawyer's issues with it. NOTE: just trying to understand the situation here, not defending NoA. My question would be, what were the changes NoA wanted?[/QUOTE]
Changing the music.
NoA is afraid the RIAA et al will come after them because the game samples various tracks.
Changing the music in Earthbound is sort of like removing lyrics from [your favorite song here].
The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.
The developer - Itoi - should receive no blame at all in this entire situation.
Changing the music.
NoA is afraid the RIAA et al will come after them because the game samples various tracks.
Changing the music in Earthbound is sort of like removing lyrics from [your favorite song here].
The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.
The developer - Itoi - should receive no blame at all in this entire situation.
wii skiier
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Seriously? Despite what appears to be a rabid online following for this game, it's sales figures on the VC would be dismal. After the initial fan rush, the likelihood of it selling to the bulk of the Wii-owning masses is very slim.
Yes, the same could be said for most of the rest of the "non-Super Mario Bros" VC releases, but the difference here is that if there is any amount of additional cash/legal headache required on Nintendo's part to make this available, it would create a much smaller profit margin than they are used to.
I like the game. It's fine - certainly not what it's been built up to be, but solid for what it is. I also didn't play it until well after the fact, so I don't have the nostalgia factor.
I'm not trying to defend Nintendo's approach to this, but I do understand at least part of it. There's the whole other issue of PR and fan service. There might not be all that many fans, but boy are they vocal. Might be worth a little cash/legal research to quiet them down for a few minutes.
Yes, the same could be said for most of the rest of the "non-Super Mario Bros" VC releases, but the difference here is that if there is any amount of additional cash/legal headache required on Nintendo's part to make this available, it would create a much smaller profit margin than they are used to.
I like the game. It's fine - certainly not what it's been built up to be, but solid for what it is. I also didn't play it until well after the fact, so I don't have the nostalgia factor.
I'm not trying to defend Nintendo's approach to this, but I do understand at least part of it. There's the whole other issue of PR and fan service. There might not be all that many fans, but boy are they vocal. Might be worth a little cash/legal research to quiet them down for a few minutes.
Kayden
Banned
I wonder if they can release it on any other consoles... 
s
[quote name='Strell']Changing the music.
NoA is afraid the RIAA et al will come after them because the game samples various tracks.
Changing the music in Earthbound is sort of like removing lyrics from [your favorite song here].
The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.
The developer - Itoi - should receive no blame at all in this entire situation.[/quote]
s[quote name='Strell']Changing the music.
NoA is afraid the RIAA et al will come after them because the game samples various tracks.
Changing the music in Earthbound is sort of like removing lyrics from [your favorite song here].
The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.
The developer - Itoi - should receive no blame at all in this entire situation.[/quote]
[quote name='wii skiier']Seriously? Despite what appears to be a rabid online following for this game, it's sales figures on the VC would be dismal. After the initial fan rush, the likelihood of it selling to the bulk of the Wii-owning masses is very slim.
Yes, the same could be said for most of the rest of the "non-Super Mario Bros" VC releases, but the difference here is that if there is any amount of additional cash/legal headache required on Nintendo's part to make this available, it would create a much smaller profit margin than they are used to.
I like the game. It's fine - certainly not what it's been built up to be, but solid for what it is. I also didn't play it until well after the fact, so I don't have the nostalgia factor.
I'm not trying to defend Nintendo's approach to this, but I do understand at least part of it. There's the whole other issue of PR and fan service. There might not be all that many fans, but boy are they vocal. Might be worth a little cash/legal research to quiet them down for a few minutes.[/QUOTE]
Absolute rubbish!
Like Strell said earlier: the game had next to no marketing when it was first released. Sure, they had wacky smelly/stinky stickers and a pack-in strategy guide. Sure, they wanted it to be huge. But they really didn't put anything behind it. I loved the FF and DQ and Zelda series, etc. But I was only 15 when EB came out and the little marketing I saw for it gave me the impression it was a quirky, even stupid, wannabe RPG for kids (FF: Mystic Quest?). They did a horrible job. And even so, the game had moderate success then and has built a cult following over the years. I have even had non-gaming friends and roommates who know about the phenomenon that EB has become online. And that's the other point. There wasn't teh interwebz in 1995 (not what we know it as today, anyhow). And it definitely wasn't in everyone's homes. It definitely wasn't a gamer's main source of info. Nintendo has banked the whole DS and Wii success/failure on word of mouth and little/no advertising. And it has worked. Remarkably well. Release EB and you're right. Every little EB fanboy will be running for their Wiimote and points cards, shouting Hallelujah. I will even buy it and gift it, even though I have found ways of having it without Nintendo's help. I'm sure there are more like me. And then most Wii owners who are frequenters of the internet will figure 800 points is little to risk in seeing what all of the commotion is about. EB Wii sales would be huge. Then maybe we would even end up getting 1 and 3 here. EB on VC would be far from a one day sell-a-thon.
Yes, the same could be said for most of the rest of the "non-Super Mario Bros" VC releases, but the difference here is that if there is any amount of additional cash/legal headache required on Nintendo's part to make this available, it would create a much smaller profit margin than they are used to.
I like the game. It's fine - certainly not what it's been built up to be, but solid for what it is. I also didn't play it until well after the fact, so I don't have the nostalgia factor.
I'm not trying to defend Nintendo's approach to this, but I do understand at least part of it. There's the whole other issue of PR and fan service. There might not be all that many fans, but boy are they vocal. Might be worth a little cash/legal research to quiet them down for a few minutes.[/QUOTE]
Absolute rubbish!
Like Strell said earlier: the game had next to no marketing when it was first released. Sure, they had wacky smelly/stinky stickers and a pack-in strategy guide. Sure, they wanted it to be huge. But they really didn't put anything behind it. I loved the FF and DQ and Zelda series, etc. But I was only 15 when EB came out and the little marketing I saw for it gave me the impression it was a quirky, even stupid, wannabe RPG for kids (FF: Mystic Quest?). They did a horrible job. And even so, the game had moderate success then and has built a cult following over the years. I have even had non-gaming friends and roommates who know about the phenomenon that EB has become online. And that's the other point. There wasn't teh interwebz in 1995 (not what we know it as today, anyhow). And it definitely wasn't in everyone's homes. It definitely wasn't a gamer's main source of info. Nintendo has banked the whole DS and Wii success/failure on word of mouth and little/no advertising. And it has worked. Remarkably well. Release EB and you're right. Every little EB fanboy will be running for their Wiimote and points cards, shouting Hallelujah. I will even buy it and gift it, even though I have found ways of having it without Nintendo's help. I'm sure there are more like me. And then most Wii owners who are frequenters of the internet will figure 800 points is little to risk in seeing what all of the commotion is about. EB Wii sales would be huge. Then maybe we would even end up getting 1 and 3 here. EB on VC would be far from a one day sell-a-thon.
wii skiier
CAGiversary!
[quote name='MorPhiend']Absolute rubbish!
Like Strell said earlier: the game had next to no marketing when it was first released. Sure, they had wacky smelly/stinky stickers and a pack-in strategy guide. Sure, they wanted it to be huge. But they really didn't put anything behind it. I loved the FF and DQ and Zelda series, etc. But I was only 15 when EB came out and the little marketing I saw for it gave me the impression it was a quirky, even stupid, wannabe RPG for kids (FF: Mystic Quest?). They did a horrible job. And even so, the game had moderate success then and has built a cult following over the years. I have even had non-gaming friends and roommates who know about the phenomenon that EB has become online. And that's the other point. There wasn't teh interwebz in 1995 (not what we know it as today, anyhow). And it definitely wasn't in everyone's homes. It definitely wasn't a gamer's main source of info. Nintendo has banked the whole DS and Wii success/failure on word of mouth and little/no advertising. And it has worked. Remarkably well. Release EB and you're right. Every little EB fanboy will be running for their Wiimote and points cards, shouting Hallelujah. I will even buy it and gift it, even though I have found ways of having it without Nintendo's help. I'm sure there are more like me. And then most Wii owners who are frequenters of the internet will figure 800 points is little to risk in seeing what all of the commotion is about. EB Wii sales would be huge. Then maybe we would even end up getting 1 and 3 here. EB on VC would be far from a one day sell-a-thon.[/quote]
All this means is that you are now a 29-year-old male with a long-term history of gaming and you spend some amount of time on non-corporate Internet sites. I've got little to back me up but anecdotal evidence, but I still maintain that that puts you in the vast minority of Wii owners.
Like Strell said earlier: the game had next to no marketing when it was first released. Sure, they had wacky smelly/stinky stickers and a pack-in strategy guide. Sure, they wanted it to be huge. But they really didn't put anything behind it. I loved the FF and DQ and Zelda series, etc. But I was only 15 when EB came out and the little marketing I saw for it gave me the impression it was a quirky, even stupid, wannabe RPG for kids (FF: Mystic Quest?). They did a horrible job. And even so, the game had moderate success then and has built a cult following over the years. I have even had non-gaming friends and roommates who know about the phenomenon that EB has become online. And that's the other point. There wasn't teh interwebz in 1995 (not what we know it as today, anyhow). And it definitely wasn't in everyone's homes. It definitely wasn't a gamer's main source of info. Nintendo has banked the whole DS and Wii success/failure on word of mouth and little/no advertising. And it has worked. Remarkably well. Release EB and you're right. Every little EB fanboy will be running for their Wiimote and points cards, shouting Hallelujah. I will even buy it and gift it, even though I have found ways of having it without Nintendo's help. I'm sure there are more like me. And then most Wii owners who are frequenters of the internet will figure 800 points is little to risk in seeing what all of the commotion is about. EB Wii sales would be huge. Then maybe we would even end up getting 1 and 3 here. EB on VC would be far from a one day sell-a-thon.[/quote]
All this means is that you are now a 29-year-old male with a long-term history of gaming and you spend some amount of time on non-corporate Internet sites. I've got little to back me up but anecdotal evidence, but I still maintain that that puts you in the vast minority of Wii owners.
[quote name='wii skiier']All this means is that you are now a 29-year-old male with a long-term history of gaming and you spend some amount of time on non-corporate Internet sites. I've got little to back me up but anecdotal evidence, but I still maintain that that puts you in the vast minority of Wii owners.[/QUOTE]
That's a very narrow view. If any RPG on VC can do well, this game is one that has as much chance or better of matching or beating that success. By your formula, it would be impossible for any RPG to do well on the VC though because "only uninformed non-gamers" play Wii. While you didn't state that outright, saying that a gamer who also uses the internet is an extreme minority of Wii owners is stating exactly that.
But RPGs have done well and will continue to do well on the VC. There is no reason that Earthbound shouldn't be one of those. Especially given the history of Nintendo pissing directly in the face of U.S. Earthbound fans for a decade or more. And expecting them to like it.
(In case you didn't catch it, I'm not an Earthbound fanboy. I haven't even played it until this past month. And I have only had the time to play for an hour or two. So I'm not arguing from a biased view. I just think it's ridiculous that Nintendo has tantalized and teased fans for so many years with empty promises and hints, only to apparently now be shutting down any possible future appeasement efforts.)
That's a very narrow view. If any RPG on VC can do well, this game is one that has as much chance or better of matching or beating that success. By your formula, it would be impossible for any RPG to do well on the VC though because "only uninformed non-gamers" play Wii. While you didn't state that outright, saying that a gamer who also uses the internet is an extreme minority of Wii owners is stating exactly that.
But RPGs have done well and will continue to do well on the VC. There is no reason that Earthbound shouldn't be one of those. Especially given the history of Nintendo pissing directly in the face of U.S. Earthbound fans for a decade or more. And expecting them to like it.
(In case you didn't catch it, I'm not an Earthbound fanboy. I haven't even played it until this past month. And I have only had the time to play for an hour or two. So I'm not arguing from a biased view. I just think it's ridiculous that Nintendo has tantalized and teased fans for so many years with empty promises and hints, only to apparently now be shutting down any possible future appeasement efforts.)
wii skiier
CAGiversary!
[quote name='MorPhiend']That's a very narrow view. If any RPG on VC can do well, this game is one that has as much chance or better of matching or beating that success. By your formula, it would be impossible for any RPG to do well on the VC though because "only uninformed non-gamers" play Wii. While you didn't state that outright, saying that a gamer who also uses the internet is an extreme minority of Wii owners is stating exactly that.
But RPGs have done well and will continue to do well on the VC. There is no reason that Earthbound shouldn't be one of those. Especially given the history of Nintendo pissing directly in the face of U.S. Earthbound fans for a decade or more. And expecting them to like it.
(In case you didn't catch it, I'm not an Earthbound fanboy. I haven't even played it until this past month. And I have only had the time to play for an hour or two. So I'm not arguing from a biased view. I just think it's ridiculous that Nintendo has tantalized and teased fans for so many years with empty promises and hints, only to apparently now be shutting down any possible future appeasement efforts.)[/quote]
You may be totally right. I just wasn't aware that RPGs did well on the VC. I haven't seen "sales" figures for the VC for a long time.
But RPGs have done well and will continue to do well on the VC. There is no reason that Earthbound shouldn't be one of those. Especially given the history of Nintendo pissing directly in the face of U.S. Earthbound fans for a decade or more. And expecting them to like it.
(In case you didn't catch it, I'm not an Earthbound fanboy. I haven't even played it until this past month. And I have only had the time to play for an hour or two. So I'm not arguing from a biased view. I just think it's ridiculous that Nintendo has tantalized and teased fans for so many years with empty promises and hints, only to apparently now be shutting down any possible future appeasement efforts.)[/quote]
You may be totally right. I just wasn't aware that RPGs did well on the VC. I haven't seen "sales" figures for the VC for a long time.
[quote name='wii skiier']You may be totally right. I just wasn't aware that RPGs did well on the VC. I haven't seen "sales" figures for the VC for a long time.[/QUOTE]
Nintendo doesn't share individual sales. So I judge by the general public reaction after a game comes out. If a lot of people on multiple forums say they are playing/DLing the game, I assume that is representative of gamers as a whole. Also, if a particular RPG shows up in the Most Popular downloads at all, I'd say that's pretty dang good, considering most of those games are Mario 1, 2, 3, 64, Mario Kart 64 and the like. But you are right, I guess there's no way to know for sure either way. I just get tired of Nintendo being so lazy (in some respects) when some things could probably be much simpler than they tend to make them. And in the end, the fans only get hurt.
Oh well, like I said, I have acquired EB and have enjoyed what I have played thus far. I just hope this rumor here is false. I would like to play official releases of all three titles.
Nintendo doesn't share individual sales. So I judge by the general public reaction after a game comes out. If a lot of people on multiple forums say they are playing/DLing the game, I assume that is representative of gamers as a whole. Also, if a particular RPG shows up in the Most Popular downloads at all, I'd say that's pretty dang good, considering most of those games are Mario 1, 2, 3, 64, Mario Kart 64 and the like. But you are right, I guess there's no way to know for sure either way. I just get tired of Nintendo being so lazy (in some respects) when some things could probably be much simpler than they tend to make them. And in the end, the fans only get hurt.
Oh well, like I said, I have acquired EB and have enjoyed what I have played thus far. I just hope this rumor here is false. I would like to play official releases of all three titles.
[quote name='Strell']The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, I don't think most sampling falls under parody. After reading starmen's write-up and listening to the excerpts, it's clear that the game contains actual samples of others' music--not just parodies of melodies, for instance. Granted, they're obscure samples, but it's sampling nonetheless.
The result of the big what-to-do with sampling in the 90s (famous pop tunes off the top of my head that used samples that involved settlements: "Ice Ice Baby" and "Bittersweet Symphony") was that publishers through a number of legal rulings said, "Sure, you crazy hiphop kids can sample our work, just cite us and get us paid for every sample you use." So people went from insane sampling (Beasties/Dust Bros. "Paul's Boutique" is a great example), where you'd have 10+ samples patched together for one tune, to a more conservative approach.
Hence, I don't think NoA is being unnecessarily cautious here. They're probably well aware of all the lawsuits from the late 80s, early 90s over hiphop/pop songs, and they don't want to step on toes and/or go to the lengths of getting clearances for each and every sample used as background fill in a VC title. If the game just parodied the vocal melody to "Yellow Submarine," one example from the game, that would be all fine and well as it's clearly defensible. However, in another instance, they're taking 3-5 second loops from Ric Ocasek and weaving it into the background. NoA's lawyers may be able to get a judge to see that particular use as not deriving from the "core" of Ocasek's tune and thus not in violation of any rights, but that's billable hours that NoJ probably doesn't see as a having a favorable cost-benefit ratio.
NoA may be a stick in the mud otherwise, but if there's even more obscure samples in the game, they may have avoided a number of lawsuits by taking their time.
The thing is, I don't think most sampling falls under parody. After reading starmen's write-up and listening to the excerpts, it's clear that the game contains actual samples of others' music--not just parodies of melodies, for instance. Granted, they're obscure samples, but it's sampling nonetheless.
The result of the big what-to-do with sampling in the 90s (famous pop tunes off the top of my head that used samples that involved settlements: "Ice Ice Baby" and "Bittersweet Symphony") was that publishers through a number of legal rulings said, "Sure, you crazy hiphop kids can sample our work, just cite us and get us paid for every sample you use." So people went from insane sampling (Beasties/Dust Bros. "Paul's Boutique" is a great example), where you'd have 10+ samples patched together for one tune, to a more conservative approach.
Hence, I don't think NoA is being unnecessarily cautious here. They're probably well aware of all the lawsuits from the late 80s, early 90s over hiphop/pop songs, and they don't want to step on toes and/or go to the lengths of getting clearances for each and every sample used as background fill in a VC title. If the game just parodied the vocal melody to "Yellow Submarine," one example from the game, that would be all fine and well as it's clearly defensible. However, in another instance, they're taking 3-5 second loops from Ric Ocasek and weaving it into the background. NoA's lawyers may be able to get a judge to see that particular use as not deriving from the "core" of Ocasek's tune and thus not in violation of any rights, but that's billable hours that NoJ probably doesn't see as a having a favorable cost-benefit ratio.
NoA may be a stick in the mud otherwise, but if there's even more obscure samples in the game, they may have avoided a number of lawsuits by taking their time.
wii skiier
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[quote name='dothog']The thing is, I don't think most sampling falls under parody. After reading starmen's write-up and listening to the excerpts, it's clear that the game contains actual samples of others' music--not just parodies of melodies, for instance. Granted, they're obscure samples, but it's sampling nonetheless.
[/quote]
I'd been ignoring all the "it's parody" talk until now, but you make some very good points. I can check with the lawyer wife, but from everything I've absorbed from her the music usage in Earthbound is definitely not "parody", or at least you'd have a very difficult time selling it as such to a judge/jury.
[/quote]
I'd been ignoring all the "it's parody" talk until now, but you make some very good points. I can check with the lawyer wife, but from everything I've absorbed from her the music usage in Earthbound is definitely not "parody", or at least you'd have a very difficult time selling it as such to a judge/jury.
[quote name='MorPhiend']Is sampling not allowed without permission?[/QUOTE]
IANAL, but there have been so many cases that its not exactly clear what is and what isnt allowed several circuit courts have given conflicting rulings.
Sampling is allowed under fair-use exemptions, but you may have a heck of a legal battle defending against a lawsuit.
Ironically, the very attention that Earthbound fans have brought onto the game and its cornucopia of pop-culture references may by the same attention that NoA is concerned about.
IANAL, but there have been so many cases that its not exactly clear what is and what isnt allowed several circuit courts have given conflicting rulings.
Sampling is allowed under fair-use exemptions, but you may have a heck of a legal battle defending against a lawsuit.
Ironically, the very attention that Earthbound fans have brought onto the game and its cornucopia of pop-culture references may by the same attention that NoA is concerned about.
mykevermin
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I wasn't kidding when I said the next Nintendo Console's name should be the "Ike Turner."
Because it beats you back and forth, up and down, in and out - and y'all (we all, really) continue to feed the beast by lapping up everything else they put out to the tune of them being financially opposite of the company that brought us the N64 and Gamecube.
Earthbound ain't comin'. Gigas wins. I give up. I don't care about Earthbound anymore.
Because it beats you back and forth, up and down, in and out - and y'all (we all, really) continue to feed the beast by lapping up everything else they put out to the tune of them being financially opposite of the company that brought us the N64 and Gamecube.
Earthbound ain't comin'. Gigas wins. I give up. I don't care about Earthbound anymore.
Reality's Fringe
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You know what this is like? It's like one of those girls who is a make-out whore. You know what I'm talking about. The one who always leaves you with blue balls after spending an hour stimulating you with foreplay. Yeah, you see, when Nintendo announced the Wii would have the ability to play old games, that was like it was taking us home to its room. Then, when it started releasing Super Nintendo games, that's when it had our tongues in its mouth and our hands on its tits. Then, when it rated Earthbound (ESRB), we had our fingers running around its labia with our our pinkies in its asshole, still entwined in French kisses so hot that they were too much for most pornos. But just as we were about to get its pants down, it stops us. When we want to know why, all we get is the bullshit reason "I just can't right now". Big, medium, or small; nothing will be done with that RPG boner.
That's where we are, gentlemen. We have throbbing Earthbound erections, and Nintendo has cock blocked us without good reason. Now, we have three options. We can say " it" and leave its room, thus forgetting about the game entirely and chalking up a defeat, we can wait until it drunkenly passes out and put it in her anyway by loading a ROM via teh hax, or we can wait until she's asleep, strip her naked and masturbate over her nude body by paying an expensive price on EBay for a cart of it.
Either way, the next morning, we're sure to feel shitty.
That's where we are, gentlemen. We have throbbing Earthbound erections, and Nintendo has cock blocked us without good reason. Now, we have three options. We can say "
it" and leave its room, thus forgetting about the game entirely and chalking up a defeat, we can wait until it drunkenly passes out and put it in her anyway by loading a ROM via teh hax, or we can wait until she's asleep, strip her naked and masturbate over her nude body by paying an expensive price on EBay for a cart of it. Either way, the next morning, we're sure to feel shitty.
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[quote name='mykevermin']I wasn't kidding when I said the next Nintendo Console's name should be the "Ike Turner."[/QUOTE]
ummm... I think they already thought of that. And the lawyers quashed that as well...
And I'm just going to pretend RF didn't say anything.#
ummm... I think they already thought of that. And the lawyers quashed that as well...
And I'm just going to pretend RF didn't say anything.
#
The Crotch
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Reality's Fringe;5518759]You know what this is like? It's like one of those girls who is a make-out whore. You know what I'm talking about. The one who always leaves you with blue balls after spending an hour stimulating you with foreplay. Yeah said:
Reality's Fringe
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[quote name='The Crotch']...
Damn, that's probably just a bit too big to make a signature.[/QUOTE]
I went back and added a 3rd option I forgot about.
Damn, that's probably just a bit too big to make a signature.[/QUOTE]
I went back and added a 3rd option I forgot about.
Friend of Sonic
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Reality's Fringe;5518759 said:You know what this is like? It's like one of those girls who is a make-out whore. You know what I'm talking about. The one who always leaves you with blue balls after spending an hour stimulating you with foreplay. Yeah, you see, when Nintendo announced the Wii would have the ability to play old games, that was like it was taking us home to its room. Then, when it started releasing Super Nintendo games, that's when it had our tongues in its mouth and our hands on its tits. Then, when it rated Earthbound (ESRB), we had our fingers running around its labia with our our pinkies in its asshole, still entwined in French kisses so hot that they were too much for most pornos. But just as we were about to get its pants down, it stops us. When we want to know why, all we get is the bullshit reason "I just can't right now". Big, medium, or small; nothing will be done with that RPG boner.
That's where we are, gentlemen. We have throbbing Earthbound erections, and Nintendo has cock blocked us without good reason. Now, we have three options. We can say "
Either way, the next morning, we're sure to feel shitty.
We can close the thread, anything else said after this point is just redundant.
mykevermin
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RF is a damn hero. 
MarioColbert
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[quote name='Strell']
The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.
[/quote]
Nope, they can not. You sample The Beatles for anything, fair use or not, your ass is going to court for all the bullshit to be dealt with. They have fought things that would have been easier to "parody" claim (such as the Gray Album, which is an overrated thing that is best saved for another discussion). Sampling is the grayest of gray areas. Owner of a recording can sue your ass for using -anything-, no matter how short, what quality - you will geting sued.
EDIT: There is no fair use rights for sampling. No such legal term for use of recorded materials. (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#114)
The actual issue is that all beatles recordings were under massive embargo from sampling and use anywhere. Things have changed since (hence, LOVE by Cirque du Soleil), but I've not investigated this further, since The Gray Album is a very nice recent case in point.
Sorry, but after reading the "list of violations" I'm siding with NoA. Releasing the game in the current state will lead to lawsuits, especially now that every website has done the legal research for everyone.
In other words, you guys have fun with your " YOU RIAA" bits, I'll just quietly continue taking whatever I'm "not supposed to own" via whatever means are most comfortable.
But let me ask you this: why wouldn't you pirate EarthBound right this minute? Have you an HD TV? Have you a VGA Out? Have you aing emulator? A USB controller? It's cool if not, and it's great that you actually support the games. But for once answer this: who is the ing victim in this "crime"?
I'll tell you who: Theing Beatles.
(Well, Ringo and Paul are the only two left, so it barelying counts, and all their shit is owned by Michael Jackson. Law is ing fun!)
EDIT 2: This is a good source about what's in the game, although it lists tons of references that are completely legal as being problematic. The only issues in the game are uses of recorded material, all references to works are completely legal. I certify the link to be RickRoll free.
The gamer view of this is that NoA is acting ridiculously, since they could file this all under parody, which ought to effectively shield the game from lawsuits.
[/quote]
Nope, they can not. You sample The Beatles for anything, fair use or not, your ass is going to court for all the bullshit to be dealt with. They have fought things that would have been easier to "parody" claim (such as the Gray Album, which is an overrated thing that is best saved for another discussion). Sampling is the grayest of gray areas. Owner of a recording can sue your ass for using -anything-, no matter how short, what quality - you will get
ing sued.EDIT: There is no fair use rights for sampling. No such legal term for use of recorded materials. (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#114)
The actual issue is that all beatles recordings were under massive embargo from sampling and use anywhere. Things have changed since (hence, LOVE by Cirque du Soleil), but I've not investigated this further, since The Gray Album is a very nice recent case in point.
Sorry, but after reading the "list of violations" I'm siding with NoA. Releasing the game in the current state will lead to lawsuits, especially now that every
website has done the legal research for everyone.In other words, you guys have fun with your "
YOU RIAA" bits, I'll just quietly continue taking whatever I'm "not supposed to own" via whatever means are most comfortable.But let me ask you this: why wouldn't you pirate EarthBound right this minute? Have you an HD TV? Have you a VGA Out? Have you a
ing emulator? A USB controller? It's cool if not, and it's great that you actually support the games. But for once answer this: who is the ing victim in this "crime"?I'll tell you who: The
ing Beatles.(Well, Ringo and Paul are the only two left, so it barely
ing counts, and all their shit is owned by Michael Jackson. Law is ing fun!)EDIT 2: This is a good source about what's in the game, although it lists tons of references that are completely legal as being problematic. The only issues in the game are uses of recorded material, all references to works are completely legal. I certify the link to be RickRoll free.
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Cao Cao
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Harrumph, just in case anyone doesn't read the WS thread, or if it gets lost in the shuffle, here's the link to Tomato's impromptu research and opinions:
http://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-legal-issues/
http://earthboundcentral.com/2009/02/earthbound-legal-issues/
bread's done