My new congressman: now that the election is over, higher taxes!

Um...you're telling me you didn't look into his past about his positions on such things? Clearly it's your own fault. Of course, I expect a lot of this from this election.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Um...you're telling me you didn't look into his past about his positions on such things? Clearly it's your own fault. Of course, I expect a lot of this from this election.[/QUOTE]

No, I know all about him. I didn't vote for him and hoped he'd lose. He was formerly the head of the Fairfax County Board and did a terrible job there, so no surprise really.
 
Our roads and bridges are in horrible shape, spending is our of wack, and our debt is beyond massive. Something is going to have to give.

Raising taxes sucks, but we as a nation let shit get out of hand and things have got to change.
 
WOW!

A tax that hasn't gone up in nearly a dozen year is going to be raised!!! To help build and fix roads and bridges. How crazy is that. And its on gas something that needs to be conserved both to lower our dependence on foreign oil and stop the ruining of our environment...what a total jerk.
 
[quote name='gareman']WOW!

A tax that hasn't gone up in nearly a dozen year is going to be raised!!! To help build and fix roads and bridges. How crazy is that. And its on gas something that needs to be conserved both to lower our dependence on foreign oil and stop the ruining of our environment...what a total jerk.[/QUOTE]

Do you even realize that revenues increase over time with greater consumption without raising the rate?

Do you realize that raising the gas tax would disproportionately hurt the poor and middle class?

Do you realize that raising the gas tax would hurt our economy when we're already in a difficult economy?

Do you realize that raising the gas tax won't "stop the ruining of our environment" whatever that means?
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Do you even realize that revenues increase over time with greater consumption without raising the rate?
[/QUOTE]

Problem with this point is that inflation, so costs are going up along with increases in tax revenue so it's not like it's extra money in the government's pocket. Couple it with infrastructure getting worse over time (things degrade with age) and it just takes more money to repair roads, bridges etc. Not much way to deal with it other than some higher taxes since so many states already have big deficits.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Problem with this point is that inflation, so costs are going up along with increases in tax revenue so it's not like it's extra money in the government's pocket. Couple it with infrastructure getting worse over time (things degrade with age) and it just takes more money to repair roads, bridges etc. Not much way to deal with it other than some higher taxes since so many states already have big deficits.[/QUOTE]

A laughable response. If inflation is making things more expensive, tax revenue also increases.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']A laughable response. If inflation is making things more expensive, tax revenue also increases.[/QUOTE]

Of course, but it kind of balances out doesn't it? Government brings in X% more in taxes due to inflation, but government expenses (infrastructure repair) are also up by X% due to inflation in supplies and wages of laborers increasing etc. So again, there's not really more money left over.

Factor in that there are many more roads and bridges in need of repair than in the past, and all of a sudden the highway budget has a shortfall.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']No, I know all about him. I didn't vote for him and hoped he'd lose. He was formerly the head of the Fairfax County Board and did a terrible job there, so no surprise really.[/quote]

You could've campaigned against him. Made some false claims about him abusing you or something like that. Shit like that, even if false, ruins politicians.
 
Good. They should raise the taxes on gas. It will get more people to get off their ass and demand a cleaner renewable fuel.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Of course, but it kind of balances out doesn't it? Government brings in X% more in taxes due to inflation, but government expenses (infrastructure repair) are also up by X% due to inflation in supplies and wages of laborers increasing etc. So again, there's not really more money left over.

Factor in that there are many more roads and bridges in need of repair than in the past, and all of a sudden the highway budget has a shortfall.[/QUOTE]

Higher population means more people using the infrastructure means more wear and tear.

Someone tell prince this is not magic here.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']You could've campaigned against him. Made some false claims about him abusing you or something like that. Shit like that, even if false, ruins politicians.[/QUOTE]

I guess general doucheiness isn't enough these days.
 
I don't know why people really oppose gas taxes...

To me, gas/alcohol/cigarettes should all be taxed like mad. Make gas $7/gal, alcohol $5/beer, cigs $15/pack... use all that money to lower income and general sales taxes. Tax undesirable behavior and use the revenue to lower the tax burden of the general public. Win/win/win... unless you love doing things you shouldn't, like wasting gas, being an alcoholic or covering your lungs with tar.
 
Not many people question why the government got into the business of subsidizing the automobile industry by building roads, etc in the first place.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Good. They should raise the taxes on gas. It will get more people to get off their ass and demand a cleaner renewable fuel.[/QUOTE]

Sounds good, let me know when you'll be sending me the money to buy a brand new electric car.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Our roads and bridges are in horrible shape, spending is our of wack, and our debt is beyond massive. Something is going to have to give.

Raising taxes sucks, but we as a nation let shit get out of hand and things have got to change.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. At what point do we, as a nation, want to start paying for the debt we began accumulating, in bulk, over a quarter century ago?

We're going to suffer from a "have our cake and eat it too" mentality. Cincinnati's just revealed that they had to cut 500+ jobs, including many law enforcement jobs outside of the city's municipality. So, naturally, folks are shitting themselves because they think it means crime's going to increase. Sad thing? It probably will hop up a little bit, but that will be due to economic pressures more than a lack of police (people won't actively change their perceived presence of police authority all that much).

So we can't have it both ways. We cut services we can't afford, and people say "BUT WE NEEEEEED THAT!!!," or we increase taxes and people say "BUT WE CAN'T AFFOOOOOOORRRD THAT!" It's lose lose on the government end. The government can't afford it either.

I blame supply-side economics. We've spent almost 30 years taking out more and more money from overseas, overspending out budget. Our nation is the sad sack guy at the roulette wheel, who has borrowed against everything he owns, swearing the whole time (even now) that he's gonna hit any minute. The hot streak is coming, he just needs something to keep him afloat until then. But then he discovers that the brutes are standing right behind him, it's time to pay for the money he borrowed against his mother's car, and there's no time for negotiation. And he's beggin' for forgiveness, trying to save his kneecaps, trying to save his life, and even trying to argue that it's not fair that they're coming after him for the money. It just ain't fair.

It just ain't fair.
 
[quote name='Zing']Not many people question why the government got into the business of subsidizing the automobile industry by building roads, etc in the first place.[/quote]

:applause:

Don't worry. Your valid point will be ignored.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Do you even realize that revenues increase over time with greater consumption without raising the rate?

Do you realize that raising the gas tax would disproportionately hurt the poor and middle class?

Do you realize that raising the gas tax would hurt our economy when we're already in a difficult economy?

Do you realize that raising the gas tax won't "stop the ruining of our environment" whatever that means?[/quote]

How are we consuming more gas - if anything with record gas prices cars are getting more fuel efficient and we're cutting back.

As far as hurting the poor/middle class - what's new? As if you really care. You're not fooling anyone ElP - we all know the only things you really care about at the voting poll is the money in your wallet and zygotes.
 
[quote name='Sc4rfac3']So how would you address our failing roads?[/quote]

Don't use them. Or drastically cut back on their use.

A light rail system such as St. Louis' Metrolink could replace hundreds of miles of roads with dozens of miles of track.
 
[quote name='Koggit']I don't know why people really oppose gas taxes...

To me, gas/alcohol/cigarettes should all be taxed like mad. Make gas $7/gal, alcohol $5/beer, cigs $15/pack... use all that money to lower income and general sales taxes. Tax undesirable behavior and use the revenue to lower the tax burden of the general public. Win/win/win... unless you love doing things you shouldn't, like wasting gas, being an alcoholic or covering your lungs with tar.[/QUOTE]
That gas tax sounds a little extreme. I travel nearly 30 miles one way to work. This is because jobs where I live don't nearly pay as much, and I enjoy the work I do. I don't think I should bedefinitely, to the tune of 7 dollars a gallon. I think the days of the poor and middle class (I dunno, maybe the rich do this still) of taking a Sunday cruise in their Hummer with the windows down are long gone. I don't think people are wasting gas, but maybe I'm wrong on that.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']That gas tax sounds a little extreme. I travel nearly 30 miles one way to work. This is because jobs where I live don't nearly pay as much, and I enjoy the work I do. I don't think I should bedefinitely, to the tune of 7 dollars a gallon. I think the days of the poor and middle class (I dunno, maybe the rich do this still) of taking a Sunday cruise in their Hummer with the windows down are long gone. I don't think people are wasting gas, but maybe I'm wrong on that.[/QUOTE]

$7/gal isn't doable? I don't think it's that bad.. I mean, are you being as efficient as you could? I'm sure you could be more efficient -- pretty much we all could, but we aren't because there isn't any huge incentive. Gas is cheap, easy to waste, so there's no reason to change.

If gas were more expensive, people would find ways to use less. Car pool, get more efficient cars, bus more, bike more, whatever.

Keep in mind my little scenario isn't just you paying an extra $4/gal: it's you paying an extra $4/gal and paying less income/sales tax. Net taxation would remain the same. Since your commute is about twice the national average you'd only end up paying about an extra $2/gal, in net taxes... between getting efficient vehicles and car pooling that's quite reasonable.

It could also vary by city/state, to make more sense. Like, Seattle has awesome buses. There's no reason for us not to have $10/gal gas or something, driving is a complete luxury within the Seattle city limits, there's never a need for it. Tax people who abuse that luxury and pass the city's savings on to those who are commuting responsibly. By contrast, my dad in rural Louisiana shouldn't be held to the same standards since there aren't any buses there and everything's so spread out, driving's a necessity. Maybe his city's tax could be $1 and Seattle's could be $10.
 
[quote name='Koggit']$7/gal isn't doable? I don't think it's that bad.. I mean, are you being as efficient as you could? I'm sure you could be more efficient -- pretty much we all could, but we aren't because there isn't any huge incentive. Gas is cheap, easy to waste, so there's no reason to change.
[/quote]
This would spark an all out revolt!

If gas were more expensive, people would find ways to use less. Car pool, get more efficient cars, bus more, bike more, whatever.
Click to expand...
...take more days off from work, etc. Try to take a bike anywhere in LA and you'll get run over. Good luck finding a bus stop or route that is close to your house. I don't care how efficient your car is, but $7/gallon will still be insane... when I was a kid, we had $0.89/gallon gas on a good day!

Keep in mind my little scenario isn't just you paying an extra $4/gal: it's you paying an extra $4/gal and paying less income/sales tax. Net taxation would remain the same. Since your commute is about twice the national average you'd only end up paying about an extra $2/gal, in net taxes... between getting efficient vehicles and car pooling that's quite reasonable.
Click to expand...
What's the guarantee that income taxes and sales taxes would go down. I guess your plan would work if these were decrease sufficiently, but then if people adjusted their lifestyle, gov't income would go down and income taxes would go back up and likely overshoot.


It could also vary by city/state, to make more sense. Like, Seattle has awesome buses. There's no reason for us not to have $10/gal gas or something, driving is a complete luxury within the Seattle city limits, there's never a need for it. Tax people who abuse that luxury and pass the city's savings on to those who are commuting responsibly. By contrast, my dad in rural Louisiana shouldn't be held to the same standards since there aren't any buses there and everything's so spread out, driving's a necessity. Maybe his city's tax could be $1 and Seattle's could be $10.
Click to expand...
Interesting, but each city would probably fight to get this as high as possible. Take LA, Villaraigosa would jump at the chance to charge $10/gallon in taxes.
 
[quote name='BigT']Try to take a bike anywhere in LA and you'll get run over. Good luck finding a bus stop or route that is close to your house. I don't care how efficient your car is, but $7/gallon will still be insane... when I was a kid, we had $0.89/gallon gas on a good day!
[/quote]

Oh please - I commute from Orange County to Pasadena on a daily basis with 100% public transportation.

Some cities have it worse than for available public transportation, but if I can figure out an 80 mile one way commute on public transportation, you can do the same for damn near any route in LA.
 
[quote name='nathansu']Oh please - I commute from Orange County to Pasadena on a daily basis with 100% public transportation.

Some cities have it worse than for available public transportation, but if I can figure out an 80 mile one way commute on public transportation, you can do the same for damn near any route in LA.[/quote]

He doesn't want to sit on a bus with your kind.
 
Fact: Since the dollars inception by the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, it has devalued by 96%.

Clearly, the need to eternally raise taxes is built into the system and is unavoidable as long as we maintain the current monetary system.

Carry on.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']He doesn't want to sit on a bus with your kind.[/quote]
I thought buses were for illegal aliens?!!?
 
[quote name='Zing']Not many people question why the government got into the business of subsidizing the automobile industry by building roads, etc in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Interesting point, I'll bite. I'd say the most important reason the government got involved in building roads is that the people demanded it so they could have freedom to travel via automobiles. Also for commerce (this is why we have things like the interstate system).
 
[quote name='Sc4rfac3']So how would you address our failing roads?[/QUOTE]

Why does "addressing" our "failing roads" always mean tax rate increases? The government is getting more than 50% of my money already and they need more to fix the roads? Where I live, they put bricks in the street and tons of speed bumps/extended curbs, not to mention quite a few unnecessary stoplights ($100,000+ each). Why don't they stop wasting money on shit like that if they don't have enough for the basics? But oh no, for someone like you, what we give government is never enough and they always deserve more, no matter how ludicrous that is.
 
[quote name='Zing']Not many people question why the government got into the business of subsidizing the automobile industry by building roads, etc in the first place.[/quote]

This would be a wonderful point, if not for the pesky issue of roads existing and being maintained by governments thousands of years before the automobile was invented.


The whole 'roads being used, and legally allowed to be used, for things other than automobiles' thing kinda hurts too.

Why does "addressing" our "failing roads" always mean tax rate increases?
Click to expand...

What would you propose as an alternative? Obviously where you live, the roads aren't failing. In places where they are, though, there's little alternative. The infrastructure all across this country is failing; gas, water, electricity, roads, bridges. Any sort of conduit you can think of; and most of our administration too (see hospitals). It's gotten so bad that we don't really need a new Manhattan project; we need a new industrial revolution in terms of renovating repairing and replacing all of our aging liabilities.

I saw a documentary recently-- NYC is served by only two main water lines. They're practically ancient. The engineers aren't able to determine their status, because they're afraid if they shut one down to inspect it, they won't be able to start it up again. The only solution to this is to build a THIRD main line-- which won't be completed until quite a ways into the future, despite having been started sometime in the 70s or 80s. If either of the two existing ones fail, let alone both, half of the city would be without water. This would be a huge crisis, not only on a humanitarian level, but also on an economic scale.

The government has plenty of wasteful spending, yes, and that needs to be taken care of. We can agree on that. However, the largest part of government expense is keeping the necessities running. That, combined with debt, has put us in a very bad place. Raising taxes can hurt individuals, not raising them can hurt society. When a bridge fails, you're not only looking at loss of life, you're looking at the cost of a new bridge, the cost to society in extra time (MONEY!), fuel (MONEY!) and air quality (emissions) from having to take longer routes.
 
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[quote name='Koggit']$7/gal isn't doable? I don't think it's that bad.. I mean, are you being as efficient as you could? I'm sure you could be more efficient -- pretty much we all could, but we aren't because there isn't any huge incentive. Gas is cheap, easy to waste, so there's no reason to change.

If gas were more expensive, people would find ways to use less. Car pool, get more efficient cars, bus more, bike more, whatever.

Keep in mind my little scenario isn't just you paying an extra $4/gal: it's you paying an extra $4/gal and paying less income/sales tax. Net taxation would remain the same. Since your commute is about twice the national average you'd only end up paying about an extra $2/gal, in net taxes... between getting efficient vehicles and car pooling that's quite reasonable.

It could also vary by city/state, to make more sense. Like, Seattle has awesome buses. There's no reason for us not to have $10/gal gas or something, driving is a complete luxury within the Seattle city limits, there's never a need for it. Tax people who abuse that luxury and pass the city's savings on to those who are commuting responsibly. By contrast, my dad in rural Louisiana shouldn't be held to the same standards since there aren't any buses there and everything's so spread out, driving's a necessity. Maybe his city's tax could be $1 and Seattle's could be $10.[/QUOTE]
Well, I can't take the bus. The nearest bus system starts ten miles away from me. Also, I'm doing what I can to conserve. I took the issue of gas consumption to my boss and she granted me four ten hour shifts a week instead of a normal five day work week. So, that helps. But I don't see how I'm supposed to be more efficent-- no one at work travels from the east side like me, unfortunately.
I understand the point of forcing people to cut back on gas by raising the tax, but applying that kind of fix for the situation seems akin to a flask of whiskey to a crackhead jonesing for his next fix. He's going to get what he wants eventually. We need alternative means to power our cars, which most likely won't happen too quickly.
 
[quote name='Koggit']I don't know why people really oppose gas taxes...

To me, gas/alcohol/cigarettes should all be taxed like mad. Make gas $7/gal, alcohol $5/beer, cigs $15/pack... use all that money to lower income and general sales taxes. Tax undesirable behavior and use the revenue to lower the tax burden of the general public. Win/win/win... unless you love doing things you shouldn't, like wasting gas, being an alcoholic or covering your lungs with tar.[/QUOTE]

Who the fuck are you or anyone else to choose what behavior is "desirable"? Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean other people should be punished for enjoying it--so long as they're not hurting anyone else.
 
And there are plenty of arguments for those things hurting others. They werent picked out randomly.

Who chooses what is desirable or not? We do. Our representatives do. When a vote for an additional tax on this or that comes up, its up to you to go bitch at your representative. Majority rules.
 
[quote name='gaxur']This would be a wonderful point, if not for the pesky issue of roads existing and being maintained by governments thousands of years before the automobile was invented.


The whole 'roads being used, and legally allowed to be used, for things other than automobiles' thing kinda hurts too.[/quote]


All roads leading to Rome were eight lanes wide.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']
1.Do you even realize that revenues increase over time with greater consumption without raising the rate?

2.Do you realize that raising the gas tax would disproportionately hurt the poor and middle class?

3.Do you realize that raising the gas tax would hurt our economy when we're already in a difficult economy?

4.Do you realize that raising the gas tax won't "stop the ruining of our environment" whatever that means?[/quote]

1. Not completely sure what you are getting at here. But the difference between revenue and a gas tax is very different. One goes to the oil company, the other goes to government that (should) use it to repair/build roads and bridges that are damaged by the use of gas (cars, semis, etc.).

2. Every tax "hurts" the poor and middle class. It might cause them to walk more, ride the bus and their bike. What also hurts the poor and middle class is potholes, and cracks that damage there car, thus costing them a couple hundred bucks to fix, or in the case of the extreme poor causes them to lose their transportation to work. I am a member of "working poor/student" and let me tell you nothing would suck worse for school, savings, and my job if my car even so much as incurred 100 dollars or more in repairs.

3. If anything, I think, during a bad economic time would be the best to raise gas prices. People will become more more aware of how they use their car. Stop with the multiple trips a day to Wal-Mart, if something is only a couple blocks away they opt to walk rather than drive, and the aforementioned riding the bus more often.

4. As I stated in my previous point, people will be more aware of how much they drive. Less gas use=less driving=less cars on the road=less use of natural resources. And on top of that less driving=less use of roads and bridges which then means less likely tax hike 5 or 10 years from not to repair roads and bridges.
 
^Here in massachusets I spend about $400 min in tires a year due to the shitty roads. One of the ballot questions this year was to abolish state income tax but I voted no because I can't imagine the roads getting worse. It would cost me more than the taxes.
 
[quote name='gareman']1. Not completely sure what you are getting at here. But the difference between revenue and a gas tax is very different. One goes to the oil company, the other goes to government that (should) use it to repair/build roads and bridges that are damaged by the use of gas (cars, semis, etc.).[/quote]

You're completely missing the point. Revenues to the GOVERNMENT also rise. 15% of $1 gas is 15 cents. 15% of $4 gas is 60 cents. See what I mean?

[quote name='gareman']2. Every tax "hurts" the poor and middle class. It might cause them to walk more, ride the bus and their bike. What also hurts the poor and middle class is potholes, and cracks that damage there car, thus costing them a couple hundred bucks to fix, or in the case of the extreme poor causes them to lose their transportation to work. I am a member of "working poor/student" and let me tell you nothing would suck worse for school, savings, and my job if my car even so much as incurred 100 dollars or more in repairs.[/quote]

You act as if I do not want road maintenance because I don't want higher gas taxes. Several others have made similar claims on this thread. This is nonsense. The federal government already is spending $78 billion this year on highways. States/localities spent a combined $114.4 billion in 2004 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/2006cpr/chap6.htm#highway) - I can't find the 2008 totals, maybe not available yet, but considering the federal government was only at $33 billion then you can imagine that is probably a lot more now. You don't think that's enough to fix potholes and cracks?

[quote name='gareman']3. If anything, I think, during a bad economic time would be the best to raise gas prices. People will become more more aware of how they use their car. Stop with the multiple trips a day to Wal-Mart, if something is only a couple blocks away they opt to walk rather than drive, and the aforementioned riding the bus more often.[/quote]

I can't do anything but vehemently disagree. People are already hurting and having trouble making ends meet, and you want to pile on the pain for the poor guy making $8 an hour who has to drive to work, or the parents who have to drive their kids to soccer practice. Gee, that sounds like a great and fair idea.

[quote name='gareman']4. As I stated in my previous point, people will be more aware of how much they drive. Less gas use=less driving=less cars on the road=less use of natural resources. And on top of that less driving=less use of roads and bridges which then means less likely tax hike 5 or 10 years from not to repair roads and bridges.[/QUOTE]

We already are driving less, if you didn't notice. People who are having trouble paying for things will continue to drive less. But at least we see the true reason come out in your replies that you want to raise the gas tax: to control other people's behavior and freedom to travel. How distinctly repugnant.
 
Once upon a time, driving around was a luxury. Due to depleting resources, horrible oil companies, and the questionable nations that we can it from, we can no longer just see it as a human right.

I am poor. Sometimes I don't get to drive to the shows I would like to see, or go back home for dinner at my grandparents, but that is the price that must be paid for generations and generations oil addiction and abuse, and also people's fear of higher taxes to pay for repairs to crumbling roads. I'll admit I do not personally like paying higher gas prices, but in the grand scheme of things I think that a high amount of driving is not necessary. Whether it be driving just a few blocks away, refusing to use public transportation, not car pooling, or not having a car with a decent mpg. If people want to do these things...fine by me, but if one is going to use more resources, clog up traffic more, and wear down roads and bridges more than one needs to pay more...whether it be a toll booth or higher gas taxes.

I am not saying that I want to control people's behavior by taking money out of their pocket, I am saying that if people cannot be more responsible themselves with our society (the one with the roads we all drive on, the oil we all need, and air we all breathe), then one must ante up for their indulgences.
 
Funny how people get bent when we talk about the price of oil being high, but the fact that over 10% of Americans can't afford health insurance is just an unfortunate reality that we don't want to violate in order to protect the sanctity of the free market.

Speaking of free markets, when's the funeral?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Funny how people get bent when we talk about the price of oil being high, but the fact that over 10% of Americans can't afford health insurance is just an unfortunate reality that we don't want to violate in order to protect the sanctity of the free market.

Speaking of free markets, when's the funeral?[/QUOTE]

Well, I want to make it so poor people can't drive to the doctor that they can't afford to see, and ultimately their family will not be able to drive to their funeral. Damn, if only gas had stayed at 3.75 rather than 4.15.....
 
[quote name='Koggit']I don't know why people really oppose gas taxes...

To me, gas/alcohol/cigarettes should all be taxed like mad. Make gas $7/gal, alcohol $5/beer, cigs $15/pack... use all that money to lower income and general sales taxes. Tax undesirable behavior and use the revenue to lower the tax burden of the general public. Win/win/win... unless you love doing things you shouldn't, like wasting gas, being an alcoholic or covering your lungs with tar.[/QUOTE]

Who the hell are you to decide what is bad and what shouldn't be done? No one has that right. Maybe we should also tax all food and drink except for water, rice and low-grade meat, as anything else isn't necessary, just desirable.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']Who the hell are you to decide what is bad and what shouldn't be done? No one has that right. Maybe we should also tax all food and drink except for water, rice and low-grade meat, as anything else isn't necessary, just desirable.[/QUOTE]

Where I live, in Iowa, we already kind of do that. If one buys food that needs to be prepared its tax free, but if one stops at Mickey Ds for dinner, then they pay a higher than normal tax on it.
 
[quote name='Zing']Not many people question why the government got into the business of subsidizing the automobile industry by building roads, etc in the first place.[/QUOTE]
I've never thought of it that way before. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Imma chew on that for a bit.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']
You act as if I do not want road maintenance because I don't want higher gas taxes. Several others have made similar claims on this thread. This is nonsense. The federal government already is spending $78 billion this year on highways. States/localities spent a combined $114.4 billion in 2004 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/2006cpr/chap6.htm#highway) - I can't find the 2008 totals, maybe not available yet, but considering the federal government was only at $33 billion then you can imagine that is probably a lot more now. You don't think that's enough to fix potholes and cracks?
[/quote]

Here's an example of who's really ripping you off.

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/npftf/pr/press_releases/2008/nov/11-03-08_false-claim-act-viol.pdf

It's not the Gov't. It's the asphalt companies.

Shit's expensive as it is. Nevermind when the companies are crooked.

As for the guy who has to drive to work for his $8 an hour job. Maybe this will wake him up and get him asking questions like "hey, where is that electric car?" And if enough people ask, there will have to be answers. Because we're talking about the price of a limited resource. Plain and Simple.
 
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