NAACP: Vick Shouldn't Be Banned

H.Cornerstone

H.Cornerstone

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http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/22/vick/index.html

"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said. "The way he is being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody."

Well no duh, he brutally murdered and killed countless number of dogs because they weren't good enough to fight. Had he killed countless numbers of people by hanging them and if their neck's didn't break, drown them, I am sure there would be the same uproar.

"White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable."

Forcing dogs to fight and kill and than brutally murder them is different than shooting a animal, and then putting it out of his misery. While I don't agree with hunting, it's nothing close to what Dogfighting is.

Why does CNN even post this crap?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/22/vick/index.html

"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said. "The way he is being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody."

Well no duh, he brutally murdered and killed countless number of dogs because they weren't good enough to fight. Had he killed countless numbers of people by hanging them and if their neck's didn't break, drown them, I am sure there would be the same uproar.

"White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable."

Forcing dogs to fight and kill and than brutally murder them is different than shooting a animal, and then putting it out of his misery. While I don't agree with hunting, it's nothing close to what Dogfighting is.

Why does CNN even post this crap?[/quote]

Totally agree, hunting and dog fighting aren't even close. First, the deer that are being shot, don't have to suffer through a long painful fight, unlike the dogs. Also, most people hunt to have food. Dog fighting is purely for sport. Alos, why the fcuk would he gamble on a dog fight? He's got enough money to buy a casino to gamble at, but has to do it on dog fights. What a dumbass.
 
[quote name='apokalipze2']I wonder how long it takes before someone starts pulling out the race card :D[/QUOTE]

luckily it was on the top of my deck
racecardke7.jpg
 
He killed defenseless animals with his bared hands because he deemed their performance when fighting other animals insufficient.

He deserves 10 years, at least.
 
not to detract from the severity of killing dogs....

but my two cents...

just make a rule: Any person with a felony should not be employed by the NFL.

other than that, this is getting waaaaaaay too much media attention...
 
[quote name='level1online']other than that, this is getting waaaaaaay too much media attention...[/QUOTE]

All right, another thing I agree with you on! :D I think that makes two! ;)

I don't see why people are defending him, but I do take issue with the OP, which states:

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Had he killed countless numbers of people by hanging them and if their neck's didn't break, drown them, I am sure there would be the same uproar.[/quote]

"The same uproar"? I would hope it would be a lot bigger uproar. Unless you are in the lunatic PETA fringe, dogs are not the same as people. Or maybe you consider a lot of Koreans mass-murderers?
 
Q: "Why does CNN even post this crap?"
A: Because they are the news and they report all different kinds of views, even if they are ridiculous and not the views of CNN themselves. (Actually they usually have a disclaimer that the views they show are not necessarily the views of CNN.)

Nice race card Ikohn, very funny.

As to the hunting/dogfighting analogy and referring to dogfighting as a "sport" I've never seen or heard of the PDFA (professional dogfighting association) or seen dogfighting on ESPN. I havent seen hunting on ESPN either and there can be arguments made that even that isnt really a "sport" like soccer, football, running, baseball, golf or any other sport that requires some physicality.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied'] Alos, why the fcuk would he gamble on a dog fight? He's got enough money to buy a casino to gamble at, but has to do it on dog fights. What a dumbass.[/quote]

Well, to him, dogfighting is normal. He has grown up with it. Did you see footage that ESPN ran when talking about dogfighting? There were little kids standing on tip toe to peer over the dogfighting ring trying to get a better look. Vick should recieve a proper sentence and then we should forgive him and move on. All this talk on the major news programs of what a demon Vick is is just ridiculous.

I think prosecutors should have forced him to work with PETA and other organizations to try and stop dogfighting in the U.S., rather than just send him to prison where he will do nothing. All the white feds will high five and get promoted, but they haven't fixed the main problem.
 
its funny how all the ultra-liberals in the other vick thread are suddenly super conservative in this one. pick a side people! we are at war!
 
I think it's a bit disingenuous that a player can beat the living bejebus out of someone (spouses anyone?) and the NFL murmurs something about a suspension, but dogfighting incurs the debate about a lifetime ban.

I don't think it quite adds up.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I think it's a bit disingenuous that a player can beat the living bejebus out of someone (spouses anyone?) and the NFL murmurs something about a suspension, but dogfighting incurs the debate about a lifetime ban.

I don't think it quite adds up.[/quote]

homie get out while you can, ive been saying this all week and all i got was flamed by a bunch of doggy doodoo scooping hippies
 
I think I'd like to disagree with the NAACP on this point, without blathering about how terrible or wrong the NAACP is all the time, and how all accusations of racism in this society are overwrought ne'er-do-wells who just want to bitch and moan about how they don't get everything handed to them.

Am I allowed to disagree on that level? On one specific statement at one specific point in time? 'cause all I see everywhere else is the same old bullshit discussion.
 
Ikhon... shouldn't the race card be... ... black?

RACIST!

Related, I don't think Vick should be banned from the NFL, but that's only because I don't think the crime in this particular case should ruin the man's life beyond the debt to society he must pay.

Then again, if his crime is so repugnant that the public would scorn the NFL for not giving Vick the boot, I say go for it. As inappropriate as it might be to say, I don't have a dog in this fight.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I think it's a bit disingenuous that a player can beat the living bejebus out of someone (spouses anyone?) and the NFL murmurs something about a suspension, but dogfighting incurs the debate about a lifetime ban.

I don't think it quite adds up.[/quote]

I agree, but at least it's refreshing to finally see people hold a sports star accountable for his actions.

I was beginning to wonder what you had to do to get fired...
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']Oh god... here we go. The Racism card. :roll:[/quote]

Of course.

I like the "black people" that go on the news and agrue about if they want to be equal they should act like they are equal and not the greatest race.

That said I heard he was facing 10-30 years for the dog fighting, you would get half that for killing a human.

[quote name='camoor']
I was beginning to wonder what you had to do to get fired...[/quote]

Being white.
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']That said I heard he was facing 10-30 years for the dog fighting[/QUOTE]

Stop hearing and start reading, because you're wrong on many, many, many levels here - the easy two being that he's facing a maximum sentence of 5 years, but this is for multiple charges (including conspiracy and animal cruelty/dogfighting). The maximum sentence for the latter charge is 1 year. So, you're not only very, very wrong, your entire argument here (that he's getting a harsher sentence than a murderer) falls right the hell apart in the face of that.
 
This just in...PETA is putting down the dogs taken into custody from Vick's home because no one is coming to claim/adopt them. But then again, I wouldn't want a dog trained to fight for sport either.

As for the NAACP, they don't do anything but try to get white people fired and keep blacks out of jail. Honesty, aside from their interactions with Imus and Vick, do they HONESTY do ANYTHING to improve the quality of life for blacks in this country?

All that aside, Vick should be banned, let the fucker rot in jail, waste his money, and get a job.

~HotShotX
 
I'm getting tired of the NAACP pushing it's agenda over everything else. It's not an isolated incident, it's a pattern.

I believe the state can charge him for five years for each dog, which would be 40 years in and of itself. Unless, of course, the plea takes care of that.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']All right, another thing I agree with you on! :D I think that makes two! ;)

I don't see why people are defending him, but I do take issue with the OP, which states:



"The same uproar"? I would hope it would be a lot bigger uproar. Unless you are in the lunatic PETA fringe, dogs are not the same as people. Or maybe you consider a lot of Koreans mass-murderers?[/quote]
My point was, he was comparing the organization and killing of countless number of dogs to accidentally or planning on killing one person. I am a dog person, and I like dogs, and they are lot's of peoples pets, and I don't like it when I hear or see bad things happen to them. If Korea was to kill dogs for food, that's their choice, I wouldn't eat it, but that's fine. Killing a living thing, any living thing, just because it's not "good" enough, is deplorable, especially when it's countless numbers of them. Killing a living being for food, that's nature. As the movie jungle book said "Hunting is for food, not for sport." And no, I am not some PETA lunatic.

So in my mind, killing numerous dogs like this is worse than killing one human being, but I don't want to get into that.
 
Some claim that Vick is getting the book thrown at him because he is black. This is a foolish argument and a completely untenable position.

This however, does not mean that Vick isnt getting some special attention from prosecutors. Celebrity cases are important to the judicial system for two reasons:

1. The government gets a lot of bang for their buck in these situations. The United States Supreme court has reasoned that there are four reasons for crimal laws. I apologize for the lists but it helps clairity (1. Punishment, 2. Revenge, 3. Deterrence, and 4. Incapacity (someone in jail cant go commit more crimes). Think of the deterrent factor when you get a case this high profile. Everybody in the world will hear of Vick paying the time for the crime he committed and it will have a greater deterrent effect than if some no name hick from georgea gets convicted.

2. Prosecutions such as this add legitimacy to a very dubitable legal system. This shows nobody is above the law, even the US president himself (See, e.g., US v. Nixon) Although the current Bush administration is challneging the claim that the president is not above the law but, ah, I digress. Basically when the public sees justice being done, it is good for the justice system.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']My point was, he was comparing the organization and killing of countless number of dogs to accidentally or planning on killing one person. I am a dog person, and I like dogs, and they are lot's of peoples pets, and I don't like it when I hear or see bad things happen to them. If Korea was to kill dogs for food, that's their choice, I wouldn't eat it, but that's fine. Killing a living thing, any living thing, just because it's not "good" enough, is deplorable, especially when it's countless numbers of them. Killing a living being for food, that's nature. As the movie jungle book said "Hunting is for food, not for sport." And no, I am not some PETA lunatic.

So in my mind, killing numerous dogs like this is worse than killing one human being, but I don't want to get into that.[/QUOTE]

I'm of the same opinion in the "killing for sport" arena as you. Of course it's deplorable. I'm not personally a dog person but I don't go around hurting or killing dogs for fun.

However, your last sentence I will have to disagree with in the strongest terms possible, even if you don't want to elaborate.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Some claim that Vick is getting the book thrown at him because he is black. This is a foolish argument and a completely untenable position.

This however, does not mean that Vick isnt getting some special attention from prosecutors. Celebrity cases are important to the judicial system for two reasons:

1. The government gets a lot of bang for their buck in these situations. The United States Supreme court has reasoned that there are four reasons for crimal laws. I apologize for the lists but it helps clairity (1. Punishment, 2. Revenge, 3. Deterrence, and 4. Incapacity (someone in jail cant go commit more crimes). Think of the deterrent factor when you get a case this high profile. Everybody in the world will hear of Vick paying the time for the crime he committed and it will have a greater deterrent effect than if some no name hick from georgea gets convicted.[/quote]

There is no deterrent effect. Never has been. David Farabee may think so, but he's dead wrong (and lonely amongst criminologists).

2. Prosecutions such as this add legitimacy to a very dubitable legal system. This shows nobody is above the law, even the US president himself (See, e.g., US v. Nixon) Although the current Bush administration is challneging the claim that the president is not above the law but, ah, I digress. Basically when the public sees justice being done, it is good for the justice system.
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I see it the other way around - celebrities may have the book thrown at them and still get claims of lenience. The LA Times did some pretty thorough criminal record searching of average citizens who were convicted of the same crime and in the same context as Paris Hilton - she served more time than 85% of the 1000+ people they found in the LA county records. BUT, she still was treated by the public like she got off light.

Deterrence is phony because people act and react to *presumptions* of justice and sentences, rather than the reality. Take a look at bigdaddy, who thought Vick was going to serve more time for dogfighting than murder. People don't *know* what sentences are, and notions of "justice" are just as varied. In both directions - punitiveness, and leniency.
 
I was going to edit my last post, but you guys are so deplorably racist that this needs to be taken in sum.

The Idiocy (numbered for easy referencing):

1.
[quote name='VipFREAK']Oh god... here we go. The Racism card. :roll:[/QUOTE]
I guess it was better than "first post".

2.
[quote name='mykevermin']I think I'd like to disagree with the NAACP on this point, without blathering about how terrible or wrong the NAACP is all the time, and how all accusations of racism in this society are overwrought ne'er-do-wells who just want to bitch and moan about how they don't get everything handed to them.

Am I allowed to disagree on that level? On one specific statement at one specific point in time? 'cause all I see everywhere else is the same old bullshit discussion.[/QUOTE]

Feel the hate... flowing through you.

3.
[quote name='bigdaddy']I like the "black people" that go on the news and agrue about if they want to be equal they should act like they are equal and not the greatest race.[/QUOTE]

Um, ok.

4.
[quote name='HotShotX']As for the NAACP, they don't do anything but try to get white people fired and keep blacks out of jail. Honesty, aside from their interactions with Imus and Vick, do they HONESTY do ANYTHING to improve the quality of life for blacks in this country?

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

You've gotta give it to young HotShot. At least he doesn't try to hide it.

5.
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I'm getting tired of the NAACP pushing it's agenda over everything else. It's not an isolated incident, it's a pattern.[/QUOTE]

What could possibly get these well-adjusted children all upset? The NAACP of course!! What did they say to piss off the boys and gir... oh wait, just boys?

Let's find out:

"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said. "The way he is being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody."
Click to expand...

Hmm.... nothing there to disagree with. A rational, logical statement, certainly open to debate. There must be something else right? I mean shit, look at all that spite! Next:

"whatever he's done wrongly, he needs to pay for it."
Click to expand...

See how terrible the NAACP is to our poor white brothers and sisters? Oh wait.

White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable.
Click to expand...

OMGWTFBBQ!!11! A marginally controversial statement that has a basis in logical reasoning, whether one agrees or not!!! You're right boys!! Let's get the white sheets out!!!

"We feel that whatever the courts demand as a punishment for what he has done, once he has paid his debt to society, then he should be treated like any other person in the NFL"
Click to expand...

Hmmm. That's it. No more quotes. Hmmm.

What were you all upset about again, pristine white children?

[quote name='pittpizza']Some claim that Vick is getting the book thrown at him because he is black. This is a foolish argument and a completely untenable position.[/quote]

Absolutely absurd. Can't imagine how one could even suggest it.

Welcome to the real world.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Wow. That's some amazingly ignorant shit right there. Why don't you leave your mother's basement and go visit a chapter and see for yourself?

I mean, you have AT LEAST seen a chapter in action if you're going to say something that brazenly over the top, right?

Right?

That goes for the rest of your racist douchebags too. Get a life. Go meet a black person. Go see the NAACP for yourself.



Wow, is it dense in here or what?[/quote]
Ignorant, yeah, but you honestly don't hear anything about the NAACP in the news unless they're suing someone, and I'm not interested in visiting a chapter to make sure they're doing their job or not.

As far as race goes, I don't see it. I don't care for hate crimes, because crimes are committed under reasons of hate in the first place, so I don't believe someone should be tried different just because of their race. I believe people should be judged by their character, and their abilities, not for what they look like or what they hate.

Ignorant? Sure, but you can't achieve equality in this country by attacking racism, we've been doing that since the Civil War and it simply doesn't work the way we want it. The simple truth is that some people will always look down on others different than them because they want to hope that they are the best. Whites aren't the only ones guilty of this self-serving thought. The answer is to rise above it, be better than the person you were yesterday, consistently improve as a person, and while you may not ever achieve the equality and respect from everyone that you deserve, you will have it amongst those who have risen above racism with you.

So get it right, I'm not a racist, just an asshole. :)

EDIT: After reading your latest rant, my guess is the one having issues with race is you. Calling others idiots for being "so deplorably racist that this needs to be taken in sum" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? We're not racists just because we have negative views on the NAACP or Vick, it's called criticism.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='speedracer']I was going to edit my last post, but you guys are so deplorably racist that this needs to be taken in sum.[/quote]

Deplorably racist? For denouncing an animal torturer and the organizations that rationalize and trivialize his psycopathic behavior?

You really need to leave your PC ivory tower every once in a while, you've had too much of the kool-aid.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']How big a ladder do you need for that horse?[/QUOTE]
Don't be a chickenshit. Reconcile your comment with the words that actually came out of the man's mouth.

[quote name='camoor']Deplorably racist? For denouncing an animal torturer and the organizations that rationalize and trivialize his psycopathic behavior?[/quote]
You *could* have noted that I did not make any claim whatsoever against those that made no mention of race. I didn't say anything about those that made the point from an animal/humanitarian perspective. You could have noted that, but then you wouldn't have gotten any attention because you wouldn't have had anything to work yourself up over. Good form.

You really need to leave your PC ivory tower every once in a while, you've had too much of the kool-aid.
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I am wounded, sir. Wounded to the core. Now be quiet and let me lecture these 'chilluns.

[quote name='HotShotX']Ignorant, yeah, but you honestly don't hear anything about the NAACP in the news unless they're suing someone, and I'm not interested in visiting a chapter to make sure they're doing their job or not.[/quote]
You mean, except this case, this case that you opened your fat mouth about and made a bunch of claims, right?

As far as race goes, I don't see it. I don't care for hate crimes, because crimes are committed under reasons of hate in the first place, so I don't believe someone should be tried different just because of their race. I believe people should be judged by their character, and their abilities, not for what they look like or what they hate.
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Then why do you keep qualifying your statements by bringing up types of racism that you're not ok with? Why haven't you directly spoken to what you said before? The quote I'm actually dogging you for?

After reading your latest rant, my guess is the one having issues with race is you. Calling others idiots for being "so deplorably racist that this needs to be taken in sum" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? We're not racists just because we have negative views on the NAACP or Vick, it's called criticism.

~HotShotX
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No race card was pulled (except by white kids.. right?). No blacks were on TV... what was it... ? "agrue [sic] about if they want to be equal they should act like they are equal and not the greatest race", and where was the "try[ing] to get white people fired and keep blacks out of jail"? It'd be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

Every example is an excuse to talk shit about the NAACP, and to a lesser extent it can be argued reasonably that blacks in general will be regarded scornfully. The evidence is there. Posters didn't just rip the NAACP, but some imaginary black that irritates them.

Why? For existing, right?
 
Oh shut the fuck up already. God forbid we criticize the NAACP for being wrong. Oh God, now I said it, I'm racist. Because that MUST be why I don't agree with the NAACP or Michael Vick.

Go be racist somewhere else.
 
Seriously, this racism stuff has been done to death. I am so sick of hearing about how race supposedly affects everything. I'm sure the dogs cared about their torturer's skin color.

I don't care if the rationalization came from the ACLU or Fox News - it's a dopey claim and the organization that voiced it deserves to get called on it.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Oh shut the fuck up already. God forbid we criticize the NAACP for being wrong. Oh God, now I said it, I'm racist. Because that MUST be why I don't agree with the NAACP or Michael Vick.

Go be racist somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
Don't be a chickenshit. Explain where the NAACP got this wrong.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Don't be a chickenshit. Explain where the NAACP got this wrong.[/quote]

"We feel that whatever the courts demand as a punishment for what he has done, once he has paid his debt to society, then he should be treated like any other person in the NFL,"
- NAACP Spokesman
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I don't know what kind of job you have SR, but if anyone was found guilty of torturing animals (not to mention over a prolongated time period) where I work then he/she would not be welcome back.

Vick is no longer "any other person in the NFL". The NFL should treat Vick as they would treat any other convicted animal torturer. It's up to the NFL to define the parameters of that relationship.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Don't be a chickenshit. Explain where the NAACP got this wrong.[/QUOTE]

They are pleading for a guy to get his job back before the punishment has even been handed down. They are so anxious to reconcile his image - the great black hope at QB* - that they'll ignore the tiny little fact that he hasn't lost his job yet. The man comitted at least one federal felony, and will most likely face at least eight felony counts from the state of Virginia. Vick will be lucky if he doesn't have arthritis when he leaves prison.

The NAACP had a great opportunity to use Vick as an example, to tell people how not do things, a way to stay out of jail and out of trouble with the law. Instead, they are using it as an avenue to say what he did wasn't that bad, and he shouldn't lose his job over it.

Imus calls a basketball team nappy-headed hoes and he should lose his job, but Vick tortures and kills dogs, comitting felonies(and violates RICO), yet should automatically get his job back when time is served? If you can't see the amount of wrong in that, then you're really not on any level to hold an arguement with any of us.

BTW, you use chickenshit a lot. Have a tight relationship by experience?

*-direct quote from Terrance Moore (AJC), someone else who is supremely quick to pull the race card whenever he feels.
 
the naacp got a lot of crap for not coming to vick's aid right away. now they are catching a lot of crap b/c they are coming to vick's aid. lol guys give it a rest and wait till monday. according to espn he wont admit to killing anything, which im sure will ruffle a LOT of panties
 
[quote name='monkeydeew'] according to espn he wont admit to killing anything, which im sure will ruffle a LOT of panties[/QUOTE]

That's crap, they have no idea what he is going to plea to. Know why? Because it isn't even finalized yet.
-And I read that piece on ESPN, yet there's a link below that states the plea might be in jeopardy. They don't know what the fuck is going to happen on Monday.

And, as I have stated numerous times, unless the plea gets him a get-out-of-jail-free card from Virginia, he still faces charges there.
 
Imus calls a basketball team nappy-headed hoes and he should lose his job, but Vick tortures and kills dogs, comitting felonies(and violates RICO), yet should automatically get his job back when time is served? If you can't see the amount of wrong in that, then you're really not on any level to hold an arguement with any of us.
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Well played, Cochese. I think I heard "Fatality" in the background.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA'] Imus calls a basketball team nappy-headed hoes and he should lose his job, but Vick tortures and kills dogs, comitting felonies(and violates RICO), yet should automatically get his job back when time is served? If you can't see the amount of wrong in that, then you're really not on any level to hold an arguement with any of us.[/quote]
Great point, never thought of that.

And my whole point with the last sentence is, what's worse, Accidentally killing someone in a car accident, or organizing and maliciously killing 50 dogs?
 
why does race... always... always... have to be involved in stuff like this.
he is guilty of what was stated by the op. race has absouloutly nothing to do with the issue.
 
:rofl:

The one time I disagree with the NAACP's standpoint, and make it known by pointing out that, unlike most people who react to the position based on who said it (and y'all are no exceptions), I typically agree with the NAACP; in the Vick case, I find their point deplorable and irrelevant.

The one time I disagree, and some schmuck with poor reading comprehension tries to call me racist. :lol: You clearly don't spend much time in the vs forums, speedracer, or else you'd know I'm the grand poo-bah of all things liberal and ultra-PC. I'm not denying anything, except supporting the NAACP in this case.

To be fair, speed does have some valid points, particularly with regard to the dialogue that pervades any discussion about the NAACP. He aptly points out the seething hatred, latent racism, and unfounded claims in HotShot's post. This, we know, is true because of (1) the content of HSX's posts, but, once called out on it, he says the following: "Ignorant, yeah, but you honestly don't hear anything about the NAACP in the news unless they're suing someone, and I'm not interested in visiting a chapter to make sure they're doing their job or not."

So, when someone has to take a standpoint where they (1) have deeply held convictions about something and (2) admit they can't back up those claims, nor do they care to, well...then you have a pretty substantial problem, then, don't you?

speed's not 100% incorrect, but this conversation is so far beyond salvageable, due to speed's poorly debated and more insistent upon incitement style of debate, and everyone else's "I have to mention how much I hate everything about the NAACP everytime they're brought up, or else someone may mistake me for some sort of racetraitor" framing of this aspect of the Vick issue.

:lol: Man, I don't even recommend locking level1online's David Icke lizard-people conspiracy threads in the vs forums, but this one's done for. I'd lock the fuck out of this if I had the power.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The one time I disagree with the NAACP's standpoint, and make it known by pointing out that, unlike most people who react to the position based on who said it (and y'all are no exceptions), I typically agree with the NAACP; in the Vick case, I find their point deplorable and irrelevant.[/quote]

You're right. I did misunderstand your point, and I genuinely apologize.

speed's not 100% incorrect, but this conversation is so far beyond salvageable, due to speed's poorly debated and more insistent upon incitement style of debate
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;D

How else to deal with it? I was never much for kit gloves with this.

and everyone else's "I have to mention how much I hate everything about the NAACP everytime they're brought up, or else someone may mistake me for some sort of race traitor"
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Where I come from, we call that racism.

:lol: Man, I don't even recommend locking level1online's David Icke lizard-people conspiracy threads in the vs forums, but this one's done for. I'd lock the fuck out of this if I had the power.
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If I can bait you into another debate, what is it about racism that makes people think they're allowed to be tacit racists and everything' cool? Is it because other *ahem* "people" won't call them on it unless they drop the n-bomb (in this case)? Is it because the racist "wink and a smile" is tacitly accepted on TV and radio? Or is it becoming pervasive in middle class white America and driving opinion that way?

I mean really. Why did no one even suggest what I yelled before I did?
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']They are pleading for a guy to get his job back before the punishment has even been handed down. They are so anxious to reconcile his image - the great black hope at QB*[/quote]

Wow. So let me get this straight. Someone's who renown for being a A-list douche makes an A-list douche comment, and you run with it? Do I fault you for being the lowest common denominator, or for reading the AJC?

The man comitted at least one federal felony, and will most likely face at least eight felony counts from the state of Virginia. Vick will be lucky if he doesn't have arthritis when he leaves prison.
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If we're going to be fair, we need to mention that this will be in no way unusual, special, or different concerning those possessing fame (of any color) to get out of, when/if he does. This is also not special within sports, or his sport.

The NAACP had a great opportunity to use Vick as an example, to tell people how not do things, a way to stay out of jail and out of trouble with the law.
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Why? Sounds like all you cool cucumbers got that covered.

Imus calls a basketball team nappy-headed hoes and he should lose his job, but Vick tortures and kills dogs, comitting felonies(and violates RICO), yet should automatically get his job back when time is served? If you can't see the amount of wrong in that, then you're really not on any level to hold an arguement with any of us.
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THIS MUST BE BROUGHT UP EVERY SINGLE TIME ANYTHING POTENTIALLY NEGATIVE HAPPENS TO A BLACK PERSON AND/OR THE NAACP'S NAME IS BROUGHT UP. ALSO, BRAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSS.

BTW, you use chickenshit a lot. Have a tight relationship by experience?
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Tighter with every post of yours I see.

[quote name='HotShotX']Well played, Cochese. I think I heard "Fatality" in the background.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
See? Even the real racists are cheering you on now.
 
[quote name='speedracer']If I can bait you into another debate, what is it about racism that makes people think they're allowed to be tacit racists and everything' cool?[/QUOTE]

http://www.amazon.com/Racism-withou...1083665?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187959725&sr=8-1

That's a phenomenal book by a phenomenal researcher who shows how "race talk" changed during the Reagan era. Basically, while we still talk about race and racism, it's far more covert - and we deny that this is, in fact, racism. What we think is "racism" is the Archie Bunker-style of talk - damn japs/kikes/spooks/etc. Very overt and identifiable. When we see that research shows that blacks have a substantially harder time finding rental housing, jobs, loans, etc, that is where we see active racism in this era.

We find racism when we see research (by Devah Pager, "The Mark of a Criminal Record") that shows white males with felon criminal histories are offered more jobs than black males (of equal qualifications, as this was an "audit study") with NO criminal background whatsoever, that's where we see racism. In its results rather than in action. That makes it harder to identify. Technologically, racial attributions can be made in the absence of seeing someone - a job/rental application by someone named "Antwan" is going to be presumed black, or "Thuy Nguyen" as Vietnamese. A voice on a telephone can identify a black person, an Asian Indian person, with damned good predictive accuracy. But, this technology allows people to deny racism ("how can it be racism if I never saw them!??!?").

The short story - it's covert now, and we keep looking for overt - we lambast Imus, and pat ourselves on the back as if we have rid American society of racism yet again. Of course, it's the greatest fallacy of our era.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Wow. So let me get this straight. Someone's who renown for being a A-list douche makes an A-list douche comment, and you run with it? Do I fault you for being the lowest common denominator, or for reading the AJC?



If we're going to be fair, we need to mention that this will be in no way unusual, special, or different concerning those possessing fame (of any color) to get out of, when/if he does. This is also not special within sports, or his sport.


Why? Sounds like all you cool cucumbers got that covered.



THIS MUST BE BROUGHT UP EVERY SINGLE TIME ANYTHING POTENTIALLY NEGATIVE HAPPENS TO A BLACK PERSON AND/OR THE NAACP'S NAME IS BROUGHT UP. ALSO, BRAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSS.


Tighter with every post of yours I see.


See? Even the real racists are cheering you on now.[/QUOTE]

A: He reminds me of you. The need, or want, to feel slighted because of someone's color. I don't know whether the two of you have honestly been the victims of so much racism that you automatically put your shields up whenever something negative is expressed, or that you're so much of a racist yourself that you can't see when it doesn't exist to that level in someone else.

B: If it's no different, why do we need to mention it? It's the race handicap again.

C: It's relevant. The NAACP has taken a diametric approach to two different things involving someone's job. It just happens to be that the person in question is white. I'd try to find something about someone black, but you'll excuse me if the search efforts come up short. If some people can complain about how the 'rap answer' is automatically decried, we can surely do the same for the 'rap answer is automatically decried' answer too. Give me a reason why it shouldn't be brought up. It's the last thing the NAACP took a stand on that garnered national attention. You'll excuse me if I'm not in constant contact with their PR director to know everything else that goes on. If the two people were in opposite roles, my judgement of them would not change, does not change.

Please, if you could, point out anything I've said in this thread that's the slightest bit racist.
 
Speedracer, people dont get prosecuted for dogfighting because they are black or because they are football players; its because they were dogfighting.

Mykevermin, you're not going to be able to convince me you know more about the judicial system than the US Supreme Court. Sorry, and no offense or anything, but your just not going to be able to do it because you dont.

And deterrence does work. We know this empircally because we see it everyday in civilized society. That criminal punishment has no deterrent effect is a fallacy and could only be beleived by someone who is blind, deaf, and dumb. There is all kinds of shit that I would LOVE to do but dont because, guess what, I dont want to go to jail/get a ticket/get sued or whatever!

And seeing a millionaire like Vick and Hilton and others do the time for the crimes they commit do lend legitimacy to the justice system, regardless of what your incorrect opinions may tell you. Concomitantly, seeing OJ/Micheal Jackson and others get off detracts from the legitmacy of the justice system.

I agree with your statement that notions of justice are varied; this is inevitably true due to people's dispositions and personal feelings of moral terpitude for criminal acts. In theory, however, in a democracy the majority's views on how crimes should be punished will be accurately reflected by the sentences their elected legislatures provide for in statutes. There will always be outliers in any crop of people, however I do not think its fair to use BigDaddy as a litmus test for popular opinion/knowledge (no offense Bigdaddy). Again I should point out that punishing celebrities (regardless of race) openly and harshly occurs because of the two reasons mentioned before, (1) bang for the gov's buck, and (2) demonstrating that nobdoy is above the law, not even the wealthy and famous.
 
To be fair, speed does have some valid points, particularly with regard to the dialogue that pervades any discussion about the NAACP. He aptly points out the seething hatred, latent racism, and unfounded claims in HotShot's post. This, we know, is true because of (1) the content of HSX's posts, but, once called out on it, he says the following: "Ignorant, yeah, but you honestly don't hear anything about the NAACP in the news unless they're suing someone, and I'm not interested in visiting a chapter to make sure they're doing their job or not."

So, when someone has to take a standpoint where they (1) have deeply held convictions about something and (2) admit they can't back up those claims, nor do they care to, well...then you have a pretty substantial problem, then, don't you?
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That's a lot of talk coming out of your ass. To assume through text that I have a seething hatred and blatent racism towards blacks. Unfounded claims I believe we agreed on, but to call me a racist because I didn't care to do my homework is a large assumption on your part that I'm not going to let slide.

Now, let's straighten this out. I can't have "deeply held convictions" about a topic I know very little about, I think we've brought that to light. As stated before, the NAACP's actions between Imus and Vick were what I based my previous comments on, and honestly, I don't agree with either of them. Vick obviously shouldn't be allowed to play for the inhumane treatment and killing of numerous dogs, but for Imus to lose his job because people in our country can't handle words is pretty childish to me. Some people are living like shit in our country, New Orleans is still a wasteland, soldiers are dying for an unjust war, thousands of Americans are murdered each year, and we have the audacity to get our panties wadded up over a fucking word. That's the kind of thing that pisses me off about Americans. We hate to solve real problems, but we love winning those little day to day battles that do nothing for our country.

I hope you see where I'm coming from, just because I give the race issue in this country a low priority doesn't make me a racist. It means that I believe that there are more important issues in this country that supercedes it. It honestly doesn't deserve the amount of attention it gets in this country.

~HotShotX
 
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