Need Help!! Very Odd Problem w/ eBay Buyer! o_0

nekobi

nekobi

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Okay, I sold a copy of Lumines I got at Toys R Us on eBay. It was factory sealed, was the folded shrinkwrap type, not the loose kind, so I am 100% sure it was factory sealed. I had two copies I bought from there and I sold the other with no problems. Anyway, this message shows up in my inbox just now:

Q: I waited paitently all week to get this game for my dad and I just recieved my copy of Lumines and it is EMPTY!!! I got Just the case so you can imagine how i'm feeling right now. Let me know how we are going fix this otherwise there will be a problem.
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This was the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270161259602

What do you guys think, 0 feedback, is this person trying to screw me over?? There's no way I can take this back to Toys R Us even if I DID get it back, since it's not slealed. Gyah, what do I do? I haven't replied yet. I have over 200 positives and 0 negatives and I really want to keep it that way, but I also don't want to be out $. *sigh*
What do you guys think? Has anyone had this problem before??
-nekobi
 
Eh most likely giving you a hard time. You have a few options I would try

1: You buy your way out of the negative feedback and refund the idiots money. If going this route force him to leave the feedback before giving him a refund.

2: Request contact information and see if he can stick to that story when talking on the phone.

3: Play hardball. Threaten your own negative feedback and explain you purchased the game brand new from toys r us. A -1 rating on his account is alot worse then one negative against your 200 positive. He won't win a paypal dispute
 
I agree with Gara, one negative for you won't hurt as much as one for them.

As long as you can prove that you delivered the item (hope you have DC), then Paypal will side with you.

I don't know if I would bother with the call, just stick to your guns and refuse to refund the money. The game was sealed and you know it was complete... don't let someone sucker you out of your money.

TBW
 
sounds fishy.. thats what sucks about selling used games. this does happen although the chances of it happening is about 10k to 20k to 1..

you should check out when this person joined ebay. your best bet is to find other people who had similar situations as you. look through ebay's help and community forums. also contact ebay about the problem.
 
Thats why i try my hardest not to sell to people with 0 feedback.
but thats beside the point.

if this were me i really do believe that he is tryin to pull a fast one.
no way in hell i would accept a return or refund him any amount.
hes a scammer pure and simple.

a -1 wont mean much if he can just create another account and start over.

i would go with option 2 and 3 from GARA.
stand your ground he is only threating you because he thinks you'll do anything to keep your 100%.

doesnt ebay have power to revoke neg feedback if it has no ground of proof?
maybe someone else can shead some light on this.
 
[quote name='supraazn']
doesnt ebay have power to revoke neg feedback if it has no ground of proof?
maybe someone else can shead some light on this.[/quote]

been on ebay on and off over the years and the last i checked was they mentioned something about having a judge is the only possible way to remove feedback. maybe times have changed and they know how to deal with removing feedbacks.
 
[quote name='supraazn']

doesnt ebay have power to revoke neg feedback if it has no ground of proof?
maybe someone else can shead some light on this.[/quote]
Sadly they won't remove feedback without a court order. The only exception to this is that they will remove a comment if it contains a link, html, java, extreme cussing, or x-rated material
 
Tell him to smooch your heiny...you sold him a sealed copy of the game...period. Play hardball, tell him to bite your sack, etc. etc.

Or, tell him to send you back the empty case, the instructions, and you will refund him half of the cost less shipping, then say that you never got the empty case or that the instructions were missing, and what sort of person is he, etc, etc.

I always try and put "All sales final. Absolutely no refunds" Let your feedback speak for itself...good sellers with a good reputation are very attractive to buyers, even if they don't allow refunds...
 
Thanks for all the help guys. I just replied pretty much saying that I bought the game at a Toys R Us, it was factory sealed, and my other buyer (I had 2 copies I sold) had no problems with his game. I didn't mention anything about what I intend to do about it, so I'll see where it goes from there.

I really think they probably are trying to screw me over. I mean I guess it COULD happen, but it's so unlikley. I guess 1 negative feedback isn't that bad. It has to happen sooner or later that you get an asshole or idiot buyer. -_-;; I just hope if they take it up with Paypal, I don't get screwed. I shipped it Priority with Paypal's shipping tool, so it's on record it was delivered. I hope that's enough. =\
 
[quote name='loserboy']Tell him to smooch your heiny...you sold him a sealed copy of the game...period. Play hardball, tell him to bite your sack, etc. etc.[/quote]

I agree, play hardball. But dont use offensive language or smack talk.
it just makes you look like a fool on record.
Calmly and professionally tell him that it was a sealed game and you dont do returns especially since you are confident you done nothing wrong.


[quote name='loserboy'] Or, tell him to send you back the empty case, the instructions, and you will refund him half of the cost less shipping, then say that you never got the empty case or that the instructions were missing, and what sort of person is he, etc, etc.[/quote]

Dont counter Fraud with more Fraud :cold: he could have also gotten delievery confirmation.
 
Another option if you want to call his bluff is to use the weight of the item in shipping as knowledge that there indeed was a game in the package. I've never weighed PSP games with and without the UMD disc inside but hopefully the difference is enough to claim you know the game was included with the instruction manual and the case. I would recommend that you disallow people with just a couple or fewer feedback replies from bidding on your auctions. You might lose some potential "winners" on bidding on your items but it should cut down on situations like this.
 
[quote name='nekobi']Thanks for all the help guys. I just replied pretty much saying that I bought the game at a Toys R Us, it was factory sealed, and my other buyer (I had 2 copies I sold) had no problems with his game. I didn't mention anything about what I intend to do about it, so I'll see where it goes from there.

I really think they probably are trying to screw me over. I mean I guess it COULD happen, but it's so unlikley. I guess 1 negative feedback isn't that bad. It has to happen sooner or later that you get an asshole or idiot buyer. -_-;; I just hope if they take it up with Paypal, I don't get screwed. I shipped it Priority with Paypal's shipping tool, so it's on record it was delivered. I hope that's enough. =\[/quote]

You're covered on paypal. It tacks on delivery confirmation automatically. As long as you have that number he will lose the dispute and he won't get a dime.
 
[quote name='joserjerr']Another option if you want to call his bluff is to use the weight of the item in shipping as knowledge that there indeed was a game in the package. I've never weighed PSP games with and without the UMD disc inside but hopefully the difference is enough to claim you know the game was included with the instruction manual and the case. I would recommend that you disallow people with just a couple or fewer feedback replies from bidding on your auctions. You might lose some potential "winners" on bidding on your items but it should cut down on situations like this.[/quote] Well since it went priority and I used paypal's multiorder shipping, the options for weight are like 1oz-1lb, 1lb1oz-2lb, etc, so it wasn't set to an exact weight. I do have my buyer requirements set to not allow anyone with -1 or lower, but I do end up getting quite a few 0 feedback bidders who are just fine. I've had quite a few people sign up just to buy a hat from me, so I'd rather keep that open. Not all of the 0 feedback bidders are bad. :)
 
[quote name='Gara']As long as you have that number he will lose the dispute and he won't get a dime.[/quote]
That's true unless he files a "significantly not as described" dispute. Then it's a whole different ballgame.
 
[quote name='elmyra']That's true unless he files a "significantly not as described" dispute. Then it's a whole different ballgame.[/quote]
Even then he would probably lose because of opening the game in question. There is a similer thread about opened games from the buyers end here
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151060&highlight=dispute
Opening disputes like that also take alot of time. The guy has balls if he goes that route for 40 bucks
 
Perhaps it would be best to call the store and tell them what happened. I'd get conformation that they would do an exchange if you were to bring in the item in question. Hope this helps spur an idea. Best of luck.
 
[quote name='Gara']
Opening disputes like that also take alot of time. The guy has balls if he goes that route for 40 bucks[/QUOTE]

Not really, it doesn't take much and PayPal nearly always sides with the buyer. I've been scammed before and it was very little work for the buyer to do so. Yeah, it takes some time, but what does that matter to them?

Anyway, a note for the future - you can see the UMD through the side of a PSP game case. I always check on anything semi-valuable (like, for example, Lumines). You can see the white edge of the UMD through the side (maybe use a flashlight just to be sure). It is certainly possible for a sealed game to be sliced and have the game removed with little change to the seal (and, very rarely, they come empty from the factory and are thus fully-sealed). With regular games you can usually hear the "rattle" of the disc to know there's one there. With PSP games though you can actually see the damn things ;)! (Only on DS games can you really not tell via either weight or appearance).

It won't necessarily make any difference if the guy is trying to scam you but at least you'd be 100% sure you are in the right for fighting him.
 
Wasn't there another guy who posted a couple days ago with a "sealed game" problem? Once he opened it , paypal wouldnt refund his money since it was no longer sealed. Maybe you can win it that way.
Once he sends it back opened, it's no longer what you sold and I would think paypal would side with you.\
Good luck either way, the guy sounds like a total scammer.
 
Recieved a reply:
[FONT=Arial, Verdana]Did you check it before you sent it off? The case is sealed with the plastic all the way around it, except that where the case opens someone cut the plastic and slipped the game out, without disrupting the plastic or the case. I'm not sure how much a game weighs but the package that was sent by mail says 8oz (case + instructions). I'm gonna buy a scale tomorrow . Then I will weigh what I got and then I will weigh that plus a game and see the difference. If the package and the game is more than 8oz that should be proof enough 4 you right. The package was sealed when it arrived to me so the game must have been missing b4 it was shipped in the mail. I am surprised that someone with such great feedback would allow this to happen. I do want whats fair. The fact still remains that I don't have the game and you have my money..You said you had 2 copies and the other guy had no problem. You don't have any more? Will I have to get it somewhere else? Hows this work?
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I didn't notice any cuts, tears, or damage to the shrinkwrap whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I would have noticed if there was a cut in the side of the shrinkwrap. =\ Man, I don't know what to do, I'm pretty sure this guy is scamming me, but I'm very guillable and half of me wonders if maybe he is right? Could that somehow have happened? I REALLY think I would have noticed though. I always make sure everything is in good condition and not damaged before I ship it.
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Like you said before the package does not have the proper weight printed on it. The cheapest priority option on the paypal shipping tool is 1-8 oz. So I imagine 8 was printed on that package. A PSP UMD cart weighs like half an ounce anyway.

Kinda odd he didn't mention how he discovered the sliced shrinkwrap in his first email. Sounded more like he opened it and found it empty. It would have been a pretty big oversight on your part if you picked up the game and didn't notice the slight weight difference, the absence of the UMD rattle, and a sliced open plastic wrap.

I still call bullcrap.

Edit: You could let him conduct that little experiment though. A sealed PSP game and a standard bubblemail are typically under 6 oz


[quote name='nekobi']Recieved a reply:


I didn't notice any cuts, tears, or damage to the shrinkwrap whatsoever. I'm pretty sure I would have noticed if there was a cut in the side of the shrinkwrap. =\ Man, I don't know what to do, I'm pretty sure this guy is scamming me, but I'm very guillable and half of me wonders if maybe he is right? Could that somehow have happened? I REALLY think I would have noticed though. I always make sure everything is in good condition and not damaged before I ship it.
[/size][/font][/quote]
 
A psp game with case weighs 3.7 ozs. in a padded mailer. You can argue that point or just try to screw the buyer back. Offer a refund and have them send it back. Most likely they will not send it with delivery confirmation and you will win the dispute since the buyer could not prove that they shipped the item back.



[quote name='nekobi']Well since it went priority and I used paypal's multiorder shipping, the options for weight are like 1oz-1lb, 1lb1oz-2lb, etc, so it wasn't set to an exact weight. I do have my buyer requirements set to not allow anyone with -1 or lower, but I do end up getting quite a few 0 feedback bidders who are just fine. I've had quite a few people sign up just to buy a hat from me, so I'd rather keep that open. Not all of the 0 feedback bidders are bad. :)[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='RandyTsai']A psp game with case weighs 3.7 ozs. in a padded mailer. You can argue that point or just try to screw the buyer back. Offer a refund and have them send it back. Most likely they will not send it with delivery confirmation and you will win the dispute since the buyer could not prove that they shipped the item back.[/quote]

Hah! That is a good point if it does come to a refund. If it came to that make sure he sends it back in the exact same condition he is describing. Sealed in shrinkwrap with the side cut. If he does not use delivery confirmation then it's his funeral
 
Why would the buyer notice the shrink wrap sliced open and the game gone??? You would have noticed that...

The buyer is lying.... He would have recieved the game and opened it and then found out if there wasn't a game...

Now I do believe that maybe he recieved the game and then sliced it out and then emailed you. Also very fishy that he didn't mention the shrinkwrap at first. I have all ready added him to my blocked buyer list. Stick to your guns and one Neg won't hurt you......
 
Do what I do whenever I sell... take three or four pictures (cell phone or camera): 1 of the sealed (or opened item), 2 - (if opened) of the case opened with the game or disc being shown, 3 - You inserting the disc/game into the envelope, 4 - the envelope. Paypal likes picture proof and as a seller I've won that way before (got me a negative with the dope saying they were bootlegs but there was no way he could deny the pictures proving otherwise)
 
[quote name='P dad'] I have all ready added him to my blocked buyer list.[/QUOTE]

Ditto! As soon as I read this thread.

Yeah, the guy telling you about the shrinkwrap afterwards is VERY fishy. If he noticed that he could have looked through the side himself and seen the UMD was gone. Then he could have kept it semi-sealed and sent it back that way. Sure, he still could have taken the game out that way himself, but at least that way you have a chance of returning it to TRU.

I know if I was a buyer and noticed that ahead of time I would not have opened it and contacted the seller right away with that little key bit of info.

Something else I wanted to say earlier that points to a scam. It isn't necessarily the case, but the fact that he mentions he bought it for someone else (his dad) and now he's so upset he can't give it to him, blah, blah, blah, sounds like the hallmark of a scammer to me. He's trying to add an element of guilt in there to make you act in his favor. The one time I was scammed they made a point of telling me the game they never got was for Christmas and what was I going to do about it, etc, etc... They wanted me to express mail another one (yeah, right, given that your mail ate the first one ;)).
 
[quote name='io']
Something else I wanted to say earlier that points to a scam. It isn't necessarily the case, but the fact that he mentions he bought it for someone else (his dad) and now he's so upset he can't give it to him, blah, blah, blah, sounds like the hallmark of a scammer to me. He's trying to add an element of guilt in there to make you act in his favor. The one time I was scammed they made a point of telling me the game they never got was for Christmas and what was I going to do about it, etc, etc... They wanted me to express mail another one (yeah, right, given that your mail ate the first one ;)).[/quote]

yeah that raises an eyebrow when he mentioned its for his dad. hes scamming you. and the fact that hes allowing himself to buy a scale just to see the weight is another indication..

i say you should do the experiment. get a game comparable to lumines and use the same padded/bubble mailer. were you able to save your reciept from the post office? or did you use paypal to ship? it would really help if you saved the receipt because it has the actual weight of the package. you dont have to buy a scale either. just go to the post office, they have their automated tellers and there should be a scale infront of it. take a picture of the weight with the package (comparable to the one you sent) ontop of the scale. you should also compare it with or without the game to see the difference in weight.
 
I'd reply one last time telling him that his situation is unfortunate if true, but since you sent him a sealed game you held up your end of the bargin. Ask him to take it up with the manufacturer if the game was missing.

Then I'd stop. From his language it sounds like he is trying to trap you into saying something that would give him leverage in a dispute. He is going to buy a scale? I call BS on him buying something like that for this issue.
 
UGH, update:

[FONT=Arial, Verdana]Ok I bought a scale and weighted the case without the mail envalope and it was 3.4 g then with the envalope it came in it was 3.8 g and with a game it was 4.2 g so that should be proof enough if you don't trust what i'm saying , but I have no reason to lie. Now that being said you haven't responed to me yet anout this situation if I do not hear from you by tomorrow night i will start going to the processes of reporting you and negative feed back, and what ever needs to be done to get this issue resolved.
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My Reply:
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana]I sold this game factory-sealed, directly from Toys R Us. It was in a security case at the store, so there is no way someone could have taken the game from its case. I check every item I sell thoroughly before shipping it for flaws or damage. If you feel this is a factory error, you'll have to take it up with the manufactorer of the game. Unfortunately there is nothing else I can do for you. I sold you a sealed game, and I cannot take returns, especially since the game is now opened.
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Now he left a negative (my first...grrr!) and sent this to customer service (I guess):
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana]Message send to Customer Service...I recived the case and the instruction booklet but no game . I told who ever sold it to me that there was no game in the case but he says there was and there is nothing he's gonna do about it. On the envalope that that it came in theres a place that says 0 lb 8 ozs , the case it self is 3.1 ozs but with the envalope its 3.8 oz and with a game its 4.2 oz so I'm not sure how thats gonna help any but thats what i've got. The package arrived I was very excited and opened it and took the case out of the envalope and it still had the plastic around it and it looked brand new and awesome. Then I looked at the spot where you open the case and the plastic had been cut , slit perfectly in the middle , then i opened the case in the middle and there was no game inside the case. THERE WAS NO GAME , NO UMD DISC , that is what I purchsed not the case and the instructions. I tried explaing this to kawaiihats but he's not believing me or not wanting to beleive me .
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*giant sigh* Just thought I would update anyone interested. He also left me a negative feedback which I did the same for him after of course, so now he's -1. http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=kawaiihats&ftab=AllFeedback
-nekobi
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Yea that sucks i understand that 100% just sounds and looks great... but in true reality if i look at your feedback now (225 99.6%) as a buyer i wouldnt be worried at all and still would buy from you .
this is not gonna affect your sales or trust at all.
You made the right choice.

Plus when buyers go to your feedback to read that one negative they will see that the person who left it was a -1. It wont even be an issue.
 
Sorry to hear you were almost scammed. Don't worry about the feedback, yours is still impressive and if buyers shy away from it, you probably didn't want their business anyway. Block the person and then go to the eBay's Answer Center and post about what happened. This will help a lot of folks who read the post and the person will end up on a shite load of blocked bidder lists.
 
[quote name='nekobi']
  • Reply by kawaiihats (Sep-10-07 21:56):

    Game was BRAND NEW & Factory Sealed! Obviously not true. Beware of scam sellers!
[/size][/font][/quote]

Did you mean beware of scam buyers? Almost sounds like you are calling yourself a scam seller, unless I am reading that wrong. Haha

Sad it had to come to that. Did he open a paypal dispute?
 
[quote name='Gara']Did you mean beware of scam buyers? Almost sounds like you are calling yourself a scam seller, unless I am reading that wrong. Haha

Sad it had to come to that. Did he open a paypal dispute?[/quote]
ugh, yeah I wanted to add a comma to that but it's hard to say what you want with eBay's limited space they give you. Plus I was annoyed and sleepy at the time. =\ Guess it does kinda sound wrong.
No paypal dispute so far...
 
This is a common scam. Tell him it was sealed/new and he has no recourse. Also tell him that if he mentions it again, you will promptly report him to Ebay and have them investigate. If he gives you a negative or a hard time, I would still notify Ebay of it. They may or may not do anything, but usually they handle it. If you offered shipping insurance and he did not buy it, this is another point on your side, regardless if it would have helped. If you do get a negative feedback, write one back for him that says he's scamming you. Most sellers will not sell to him seeing that, and eventually he will delete/abandon/ban his account. Then the negative will no longer count against you.

Want an example? Check out my feedback (ryanflucas) on Ebay. There are some old feedback entries that say "no longer a registered user". They leave the feedback there, but it won't count against you.
 
Also, put a clause similar to the following in your auctions in the future if you are concerned: "Item is sealed/new but sold as-is no warranty".
 
*sigh*
Buyer just opened a 'New Significantly Not as Described Dispute' with Paypal. I'm probably screwed now, right? Is there anything I can do or show to Paypal, or will they just side with the buyer no matter what in these cases? =|
 
If he does leave negative feedback, you can always leave a comment underneat it disputing it. I had a similar scammer screw me over. He said he was going to pay, never did, and then left neg feedback saying I never mailed the game! Filed and won a non paying dispute and everything and Ebay still left the feedback.

Don't give in to this guy. Pure scam is what it is. I bought that same game at TRU on sale with no problems.



 
[quote name='nekobi']*sigh*
Buyer just opened a 'New Significantly Not as Described Dispute' with Paypal. I'm probably screwed now, right? Is there anything I can do or show to Paypal, or will they just side with the buyer no matter what in these cases? =|[/quote]

unfortunately you're pooched. He already won when he filed a not as described. You could try and fight it by saying when he returns it that it was not returned in the same condition you mailed it in. Who knows might work. It does specifically states he has to return it in the condition he recieved it.
 
[quote name='magiic']unfortunately you're pooched. He already won when he filed a not as described. You could try and fight it by saying when he returns it that it was not returned in the same condition you mailed it in. Who knows might work. It does specifically states he has to return it in the condition he recieved it.[/quote]

If it has to be returned in the condition it was received in, doesn't that screw this buyer since he opened it already? Don't give up yet OP, cause that little bit right there might help you out.
 
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