New Documentary: I.O.U.S.A.

Too bad the debt isn't a real important election issue. Bush's fiscal conservatism saw to the end of that.
 
[quote name='Mike23']Bush's fiscal conservatism saw to the end of that.[/QUOTE]


He didn't help things at all, but if you really want to know who's behind all this, blame the baby boom generation. They're the ones who grew up having everything given and marketed directly to them and when times got tough in the late 70s/ early 80s, they wanted an immediate solution to make them comfortable in the here and now. They're the ones who set about mortgaging our future for their own personal gains.


On another note, I'd be curious at what the current amount (adjusted for inflation) is owed to the U.S. by all the European countries boosted by the Marshall Plan. Or the amount of money that we sunk into Asia in the 40s and 50s. That'd be interesting.
 
dont confuse bush with a fiscal conservative, he isnt.

bushs spending & the baby boom are two small pieces to the puzzle, theres a lot more to it, way more then we could ever tackle sensibly in this forum.
 
[quote name='Mike23']Too bad the debt isn't a real important election issue. Bush's fiscal conservatism saw to the end of that.[/QUOTE]

Bush is less conservative than you are.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Bush is less conservative than you are.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't make him "liberal," now does it?

Aside from Ron Paul, point me to a true blue, genuine "fiscal conservative" in this day and age.

I'm of the opinion I'm more likely to see the wendigo dining at Applebee's with the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot than I am to find a fiscal conservative who's existed since Goldwater.

And I don't go to Applebee's.

EDIT: Mount your defense mechanisms!

greenberg21gw9.jpg
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That doesn't make him "liberal," now does it?

Aside from Ron Paul, point me to a true blue, genuine "fiscal conservative" in this day and age.

[/QUOTE]

cant do it, because there just arent any. republicans like to say they are, but cmon, we all know they arent.


[quote name='Msut77']Oh lookie, the calvinball conservatives have come out to play.[/QUOTE]

Another excellent post.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That doesn't make him "liberal," now does it?

Aside from Ron Paul, point me to a true blue, genuine "fiscal conservative" in this day and age.

I'm of the opinion I'm more likely to see the wendigo dining at Applebee's with the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot than I am to find a fiscal conservative who's existed since Goldwater.

And I don't go to Applebee's.

EDIT: Mount your defense mechanisms!
[/QUOTE]

You're absolutely right. They don't exist anymore. I have no argument. That's why the Republican party is a total failure and is basically now the Democratic party of the late 70's and 80's when it comes to fiscal philosophy.

My only issue is that people still get the words Republican and Conservative confused with each other as if they are still as similar as Democrat and Liberal is.

Republicans deserve to lose, and continue to lose, on this issue alone, for abandoning the people that got them where they are now.
 
The thing is, they *aren't* the Democratic party. We had a a budget surplus under the last Democratic president.

This who "tax and spend" label is a mythological creature you need to understand doesn't exist.

Spending is out of control irrespective of party. Democrats have, at the very least, tried to account for what they are spending - instead of trying to fool American over and over again like a cheap game of Monte Carlo.
 
First, because I'm bored, I'll slip on my "I believe in Party differences and love talk radio" shirt in order to entertain your post by throwing out common rebutles to this surplus claim you love.

1) The president/executive branch can't technically spend or save money, congress does. All money bills originate in the house. The years prior to 1999 Clinton ran a deficit. It wasn't until the "contract with america" by a Republican congress in 1994/1995 that the deficit started to decrease and lead to a surplus in 1999/2000. Clinton did very little, but he also changed the way Roth IRA's work to give an immediate tax revenue that would otherwise be generated over 20-40 years - essentially stealing taxes from future administrations.

2) The dot.com bubble of the 90's poured huge amounts of money into the treasury. About the time it burst, Clinton's biggest concern was which intern his cock was in. Economic lag caused most of it's effects years later.

3) During and because of the economic surplus you dance about, Congress increased it's average spending about 600% in seven years, spending extraordinary amounts of money. When the surplus ended (see above), the spending continued to increase. Meanwhile, everyone in both parties point at every person they can think of to blame. Welcome to today.

4) Clinton helped pass the largest tax increase in our countries history to that point, which would help any treasury, wouldn't it? (didn't he even retroactively raise taxes on the dead?)

5) Bush inherited a spending problem and a handbrake on the economy commonly called 9-11. Not to mention (arguably justifiably) refunding the military which had been dramatically defunded in the previous 10 years. That's how Bush "squandered" the so-called surplus.

6) In reality, it was a projected surplus, not an actual surplus. Mostly by projecting a continual cut in each years defense budget. But even pretending it was a real surplus, having a massive surplus is nearly as bad, if not as bad, as a deficit because you are keeping all that money out of the economy. Most economists would agree that a national budget should ideally be kept break even, if not slightly in deficit (to help bonds).

7) It's important to remember the national debt never went down in the 90's. If you start saving up your paychecks and ignoring your bills, you aren't exactly doing better than the guy with no money trying to pay off his bills, are you? The national debt under Clinton was 6-7 trillion dollars. How is that a surplus? (Of course, Bush is no better, if not worse).

8) Early in the Clinton term, the Treasury reshuffled the government’s bond portfolio from longer term to shorter term bonds. This accounting "trick", invisible to the public, lowered the overall federal outlay scheduling and won the White House some propaganda points for “lowering” the deficit. Points still being thrown out today.

- Now I remove that shirt and replace it with my "Reality" shirt:

Ultimately - Until the Federal Reserve is abolished, none of this really matters either way. The problems they cause is far worse than the national budget.

Actually believing that the two different parties A) Really has control over, influence, and and does effect the economy much differently than each other and B) Have truly different attainable goals, makes it nearly impossible to discuss this much.

At the risk ofl being accused of being level1online's boyfriend/bumbuddy/clone/second account -

Playing "Republican bad, Democrat good" games like you tend to, will only have one certain effect: fulfilling the goals of those really in control by staying distracted and buying the illusion of party difference, which in turn makes us both ultimately about as effective in real change as hamsters on hamster wheels.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']

Ultimately - Until the Federal Reserve is abolished, none of this really matters either way. The problems they cause is far worse than the national budget.

Actually believing that the two different parties A) Really has control over, influence, and and does effect the economy much differently than each other and B) Have truly different attainable goals, makes it nearly impossible to discuss this much.

At the risk ofl being accused of being level1online's boyfriend/bumbuddy/clone/second account -

Playing "Republican bad, Democrat good" games like you tend to, will only have one certain effect: fulfilling the goals of those really in control by staying distracted and buying the illusion of party difference, which in turn makes us both ultimately about as effective in real change as hamsters on hamster wheels.[/QUOTE]


Without knowing much about this movie (but reading a brief synopsis) I would have to say that a good portion of the movie must deal with the fed and their raping of our economy & dollar for the benefit of a very very select few (regardless of what party controls the white house and/or congress).

What the fed is doing is not a nut-case conspiracy theory like 9-11 being an inside job or a reptilian hierarchy in government, its happening and has been for about 3 decades now...
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Without knowing much about this movie (but reading a brief synopsis) I would have to say that a good portion of the movie must deal with the fed and their raping of our economy & dollar for the benefit of a very very select few (regardless of what party controls the white house and/or congress).

What the fed is doing is not a nut-case conspiracy theory like 9-11 being an inside job or a reptilian hierarchy in government, its happening and has been for about 3 decades now...[/QUOTE]

There is a very good politically impartial film that's been out since the mid-90's that details in very fine detail how the Fed came to be, where it's origins came from, and why it's bad.

It's called Money Masters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3VUsNPTAV0

It's 3 1/2 hours long so it took me over a week to watch it, but it was extremely informative and eye opening. It's sad and pathetic that not even most people in congress know exactly what's going on with the Fed.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
Not to mention (arguably justifiably) refunding the military which had been dramatically defunded in the previous 10 years. That's how Bush "squandered" the so-called surplus. [/quote]


I love how conservatives pretend that the military was in disrepair from lack of funding when in fact it was Clinton's funded army that entered Afghanistan, being that Bush's military funding did not take place till after we were already in Afghanistan. Lets also not forget that Predator drones and GPS guided Munitions were also developed during the Clinton Administration.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I love how conservatives pretend that the military was in disrepair from lack of funding when in fact it was Clinton's funded army that entered Afghanistan, being that Bush's military funding did not take place till after we were already in Afghanistan. Lets also not forget that Predator drones and GPS guided Munitions were also developed during the Clinton Administration.[/QUOTE]

It made sense to cut back some on the military since "the cold war was over". I don't fault Clinton for that. It was a handy turn of events for his "surplus" propaganda when the Soviet Union died. He lucked out in no longer needing to fund the military cold war style.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I wish I could say likewise.[/QUOTE]

you are a

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I probably should have made it clear I was being sarcastic.

And I actively volunteer to defeat the Conservative party of Canada. Calling me a Conservative would be an enormous stretch at the best of times.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you are a...[/QUOTE]

I happen to know and talk to plenty of British expats so that word does not have the effect on me you think it would have.

It is literally painful to read your posts, and yet there is no doubt that you are actually putting an effort into your half literate ramblings.

P.s. Is anyone else finding the ridiculously fake internet independent act really tiresome?
 
[quote name='Msut77']
P.s. Is anyone else finding the ridiculously fake internet independent act really tiresome?[/QUOTE]

As opposed to the holier than thou leftist wont listen because im right youre wrong even though my best arguements are attacking and insulting the opposition and offer no real substance or thoughtfulness attitude?

from what i understand youre the one people have blocked.
 
It always puts a grin on my face when another poster finally realizes the delightful usefulness, harrowing maturity, and actual intellectual depth of Msut77 for the first time.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']As opposed to the holier than thou leftist wont listen because im right youre wrong even though my best arguements are attacking and insulting the opposition and offer no real substance or thoughtfulness attitude?

from what i understand youre the one people have blocked.[/QUOTE]

Oh I have plenty of substance, there are any numbers of threads where I argue or offer facts.

The people who put me on ignore are those who do not wish to be distracted with their ongoing war against the Hippie-Commie-Libs that are mostly figments of their imagination.

P.s. I really should have screen capped your little whiny ass tirade.
 
[quote name='Msut77']

P.s. I really should have screen capped your little whiny ass tirade.[/QUOTE]

dont worry, im sure it wont be the last time i call you a cunt.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']dont worry, im sure it wont be the last time i call you a cunt.[/QUOTE]

I dunno, you deleted it the last time after all. Perhaps whiny titty babies such as yourself are not ready for big boy curses.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I dunno, you deleted it the last time after all. Perhaps whiny titty babies such as yourself are not ready for big boy curses.[/QUOTE]

Mod deleted it, if it were up to me it would still be up there.
 
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