New, surprise Obamacare fee...say it isn't so.
- Thread starter egofed
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Indigo_Streetlight
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So the government would effectively cover any guaranteed losses that the insurance companies would see on the roulette wheel. What happens though if costs still don't go down?
Trancendental
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[quote name='RealDeals']LOL nice flamebait bro 5 bucks a month per capita :lol: Yeah I'd much rather keep that fortune and get an extra footlong a month at Subway than, you know, keep people with pre-existing conditions from being turned down. 
[/QUOTE]
That's 5 scratchers bro, the govt is taking away my right to be a millionaire!
[/QUOTE]That's 5 scratchers bro, the govt is taking away my right to be a millionaire!
BigT
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Regardless of this particular fee, this whole thing is either going to cost quite a bit or (hopefully) there will come about some logical way in which we use our limited resources to intelligently provide healthcare (unlikely, since most people will cry about rationing and death panels).
* Providing and promoting palliative care for various end stage conditions is cheaper and more humane than sticking someone in the ICU and coding them every few days... and having residents practice sticking A-lines and various central lines on them.
* Rewarding certain specialists in medicine (no names) for performing procedures with fuzzy indications that have never been proven superior to sham procedures is also a bad idea.
* Most people think that they need medical care more than they actually do. If you're young (unless you are very unlucky)... you are usually more likely than not to have some psychological basis of your symptoms. If you are old, then you probably have something going on, but most often, the best answer is to conservatively manage things... medications and their interactions are dangerous. Hospitals are even more dangerous... and the emergency department is the most dangerous place of all (seriously, I would only go to an ED if I had some serious trauma, bleeding that I couldn't hold pressure over and stop, or airway issue...)
Nihilistic rant over...
* Providing and promoting palliative care for various end stage conditions is cheaper and more humane than sticking someone in the ICU and coding them every few days... and having residents practice sticking A-lines and various central lines on them.
* Rewarding certain specialists in medicine (no names) for performing procedures with fuzzy indications that have never been proven superior to sham procedures is also a bad idea.
* Most people think that they need medical care more than they actually do. If you're young (unless you are very unlucky)... you are usually more likely than not to have some psychological basis of your symptoms. If you are old, then you probably have something going on, but most often, the best answer is to conservatively manage things... medications and their interactions are dangerous. Hospitals are even more dangerous... and the emergency department is the most dangerous place of all (seriously, I would only go to an ED if I had some serious trauma, bleeding that I couldn't hold pressure over and stop, or airway issue...)
Nihilistic rant over...
mykevermin
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[quote name='BigT']* Most people think that they need medical care more than they actually do.[/QUOTE]
Would it be fair to say, then, that the US suffers from the problem of *too much* preventative care?
Would it be fair to say, then, that the US suffers from the problem of *too much* preventative care?
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Healthcare is the single greatest reason why I've seriously contemplated moving to Canada. I'd gladly pay higher federal taxes if it meant I could walk into any clinic/hospital and be seen/treated. The only downside is the 
ing weather up there...[/QUOTE]
Toronto is south of Detroit/Green Bay/Minneapolis/Seattle/etc...
I mean, it's not like you're moving to Yellow Knife or Flin Flan or Churchill.
Also, you'll have a hard time becoming a citizen since there are some pretty severe immigration laws.
ing weather up there...[/QUOTE]Toronto is south of Detroit/Green Bay/Minneapolis/Seattle/etc...
I mean, it's not like you're moving to Yellow Knife or Flin Flan or Churchill.
Also, you'll have a hard time becoming a citizen since there are some pretty severe immigration laws.
If the insurance companies think it's great, then it's got to be awful. I put insurance company execs and repeat child murderers in the same ring of hell.
The insurance companies just got handed a ton of customers, with absolutely nothing to prevent them from price gouging the ever-living shit out of their new captive consumers. Insurance companies find out they have to make 1.3B instead of 1.3799B? Oh, pass it on to the consumer!
To me, Obamacare fails in the sense that it does absolutely nothing to medical costs. If the cost of setting a broken arm were $200 instead of $1500, then insurance could be availble for major medical only (which is already offered). But Obamacare does nothing to reduce the costs of medical services (which they artificially inflate because the government says docs can't charge less than they bill to Medicare/caid, despite Medicare being an immense pain in the ass to deal with, longer and lower payouts; it's so bad, a friend of mine who is an exec at a local clinic said they're no longer taking on anymore Medicare clients because of all the issues, and he's a card carrying Democrat who campaigned for Obama twice).
The government also does nothing to limit premium increases. Not for profit insurance companies (HA! Can't believe how common those are) start to see people using the health insurance? Ruh roh. Raise the premiums, they're using our services which they pay for!
To me, Obamacare introduced some long overdue improvements, pre-existing conditions, free (?) preventative healthcare, ability for parents to chose to carry their kids on their insurance even longer, but there are a handful of issues that it also raises, which I feel are negatives. But fundamentally, it does nothing to even impact the root cause-the healthcare is too damn high.
The insurance companies just got handed a ton of customers, with absolutely nothing to prevent them from price gouging the ever-living shit out of their new captive consumers. Insurance companies find out they have to make 1.3B instead of 1.3799B? Oh, pass it on to the consumer!
To me, Obamacare fails in the sense that it does absolutely nothing to medical costs. If the cost of setting a broken arm were $200 instead of $1500, then insurance could be availble for major medical only (which is already offered). But Obamacare does nothing to reduce the costs of medical services (which they artificially inflate because the government says docs can't charge less than they bill to Medicare/caid, despite Medicare being an immense pain in the ass to deal with, longer and lower payouts; it's so bad, a friend of mine who is an exec at a local clinic said they're no longer taking on anymore Medicare clients because of all the issues, and he's a card carrying Democrat who campaigned for Obama twice).
The government also does nothing to limit premium increases. Not for profit insurance companies (HA! Can't believe how common those are) start to see people using the health insurance? Ruh roh. Raise the premiums, they're using our services which they pay for!
To me, Obamacare introduced some long overdue improvements, pre-existing conditions, free (?) preventative healthcare, ability for parents to chose to carry their kids on their insurance even longer, but there are a handful of issues that it also raises, which I feel are negatives. But fundamentally, it does nothing to even impact the root cause-the healthcare is too damn high.
[quote name='berzirk']To me, Obamacare fails in the sense that it does absolutely nothing to medical costs.[...] But fundamentally, it does nothing to even impact the root cause-the healthcare is too damn high. [/QUOTE]
That's because, in spite of how it was sold, at its heart, the "Affordable Health Care Act" was never about health care reform, but health insurance reform.
That's because, in spite of how it was sold, at its heart, the "Affordable Health Care Act" was never about health care reform, but health insurance reform.
[quote name='UncleBob']That's because, in spite of how it was sold, at its heart, the "Affordable Health Care Act" was never about health care reform, but health insurance reform.[/QUOTE]
Damn. December 11th, 2012 UB knocks one out of the park.
I kid.
On the front it isn't very consumer friendly, on the tailend however it does some things that will lower costs. Most of the preventitive care will reduce future use and costs. In theory larger insurance pool will give providers a reason to lower costs as they won't be "stiffed" by the uninsured as often. The administrative costs provisions for insurance companies that result in refunds to consumers will also be a nice touch.
Sadly its a very conservative plan that isn't much different than the original Heritage Foundation plan which means it exists in the same world where tax cuts lead to massive employment increases.
Damn. December 11th, 2012 UB knocks one out of the park.
I kid.
On the front it isn't very consumer friendly, on the tailend however it does some things that will lower costs. Most of the preventitive care will reduce future use and costs. In theory larger insurance pool will give providers a reason to lower costs as they won't be "stiffed" by the uninsured as often. The administrative costs provisions for insurance companies that result in refunds to consumers will also be a nice touch.
Sadly its a very conservative plan that isn't much different than the original Heritage Foundation plan which means it exists in the same world where tax cuts lead to massive employment increases.
The Crotch
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']Healthcare is the single greatest reason why I've seriously contemplated moving to Canada. I'd gladly pay higher federal taxes if it meant I could walk into any clinic/hospital and be seen/treated. The only downside is the ing weather up there...[/QUOTE]
I'd recommend the BC coast if you don't mind rain and the proximity to a fault line.[quote name='nasum']Toronto is south of Detroit/Green Bay/Minneapolis/Seattle/etc...
I mean, it's not like you're moving to Yellow Knife or Flin Flan or Churchill.
Also, you'll have a hard time becoming a citizen since there are some pretty severe immigration laws.[/QUOTE]
Flin Flon.
Ahem.
ing weather up there...[/QUOTE]I'd recommend the BC coast if you don't mind rain and the proximity to a fault line.[quote name='nasum']Toronto is south of Detroit/Green Bay/Minneapolis/Seattle/etc...
I mean, it's not like you're moving to Yellow Knife or Flin Flan or Churchill.
Also, you'll have a hard time becoming a citizen since there are some pretty severe immigration laws.[/QUOTE]
Flin Flon.
Ahem.
[quote name='nasum']Sadly its a very conservative plan that isn't much different than the original Heritage Foundation plan which means it exists in the same world where tax cuts lead to massive employment increases.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Democrats managed to squeeze into a sweet-heart situation where they can do no wrong. If things work out, then they get to take all the credit, since they were the only ones to vote for it. If it all goes to pot, then they get to put the blame on conservatives because it was "their plan" and then the Democratic Cheerleaders will come out in force, blaming the Republicans who refused to get on board with the plan to begin with.
Yeah, the Democrats managed to squeeze into a sweet-heart situation where they can do no wrong. If things work out, then they get to take all the credit, since they were the only ones to vote for it. If it all goes to pot, then they get to put the blame on conservatives because it was "their plan" and then the Democratic Cheerleaders will come out in force, blaming the Republicans who refused to get on board with the plan to begin with.
[quote name='nasum'] In theory larger insurance pool will give providers a reason to lower costs as they won't be "stiffed" by the uninsured as often.[/QUOTE]
But that's part of my point. Clinics can't charge less than they charge the government, so even though they may be taking in a bunch more customers, they legally cannot charge a lower rate, which means insurance companies are negotiating their rates based on the inflated costs to begin with. Clinics don't want to decrease the rates they are forced to accept by the government, because the terms suck so bad, so the appearance from the outside seems to be that government has artificially inflated healthcare costs, so in order to reduce those costs, the government is going to get more involved. To me, ObamaCare tries to come in like a white knight (overlook the joke setup here) to rescue the damsel in distress...that the knight imprisoned in the first place.
Didn't know a refund was a requirement. Are you sure that's part of it, or is it the sort of thing where IF they don't reduce administrative costs then they issue refunds? We're talking about billion dollar "not-for-profits" here. If Mitt Romney can re-position a few hundred mill to reduce his tax liability, you've gotta think a huge organization like an insurance company can do it even better in order to "re-distribute" administrative costs under different names. Integrity and ethical standards are not traits I've ever thought to apply to insurance providers in any field.
But that's part of my point. Clinics can't charge less than they charge the government, so even though they may be taking in a bunch more customers, they legally cannot charge a lower rate, which means insurance companies are negotiating their rates based on the inflated costs to begin with. Clinics don't want to decrease the rates they are forced to accept by the government, because the terms suck so bad, so the appearance from the outside seems to be that government has artificially inflated healthcare costs, so in order to reduce those costs, the government is going to get more involved. To me, ObamaCare tries to come in like a white knight (overlook the joke setup here) to rescue the damsel in distress...that the knight imprisoned in the first place.
Didn't know a refund was a requirement. Are you sure that's part of it, or is it the sort of thing where IF they don't reduce administrative costs then they issue refunds? We're talking about billion dollar "not-for-profits" here. If Mitt Romney can re-position a few hundred mill to reduce his tax liability, you've gotta think a huge organization like an insurance company can do it even better in order to "re-distribute" administrative costs under different names. Integrity and ethical standards are not traits I've ever thought to apply to insurance providers in any field.
mykevermin
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']Nothing good comes from it and there really is never anything intellectually stimulating to be found in them...[/QUOTE]
right-o.
right-o.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']My dad's side is mostly French-Canadian so I suppose its technically in my blood as well, its just the damn cold is so uncomfortable...[/QUOTE]
I just loathe the heat. I hate that we barely get snow here even. It's just cold with no beneficial side. Actually it hasn't even been cold lately, it was 70F here last week for crying out loud.
I just loathe the heat. I hate that we barely get snow here even. It's just cold with no beneficial side. Actually it hasn't even been cold lately, it was 70F here last week for crying out loud.
[quote name='Clak']I just loathe the heat. I hate that we barely get snow here even. It's just cold with no beneficial side. Actually it hasn't even been cold lately, it was 70F here last week for crying out loud.[/QUOTE]
This is the main reason why I've liked Iowa so much since I moved here. Less heat than the south and less cold than the north with none of the issues that come with living in Missouri...
This is the main reason why I've liked Iowa so much since I moved here. Less heat than the south and less cold than the north with none of the issues that come with living in Missouri...
bread's done