News Bias

MrBadExample

MrBadExample

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Just something curious I noticed today. Fox & Friends announced "anti-American" protesters greeted Bush in Argentina and yet CNN.com and Yahoo both correctly called them "anti-Bush" protesters. There is a big and important difference. I just checked foxnews.com and they are using "anti-Bush" now too. The man is just not popular. Anywhere.
 
This reminds me of something I saw 2 days ago that absolutely pissed me off. They were showing anti-war/bush protests at the University of Minnesota on the news. That's fine, its everyone's right if they want to protest and walk out of class. The thing I had a huge problem with is that someone in the crowd had a huge (5x8) flag on a pole that they were carrying upside down. fuck THEM. Seriously, some people need to realize that there is a distinction between the current president and our country. That flag stands for a hell of a lot more than one shitty president.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']This reminds me of something I saw 2 days ago that absolutely pissed me off. They were showing anti-war/bush protests at the University of Minnesota on the news. That's fine, its everyone's right if they want to protest and walk out of class. The thing I had a huge problem with is that someone in the crowd had a huge (5x8) flag on a pole that they were carrying upside down. fuck THEM. Seriously, some people need to realize that there is a distinction between the current president and our country. That flag stands for a hell of a lot more than one shitty president.[/QUOTE]

Vandalizing the flag is not anti americanism.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']This reminds me of something I saw 2 days ago that absolutely pissed me off. They were showing anti-war/bush protests at the University of Minnesota on the news. That's fine, its everyone's right if they want to protest and walk out of class. The thing I had a huge problem with is that someone in the crowd had a huge (5x8) flag on a pole that they were carrying upside down. fuck THEM. Seriously, some people need to realize that there is a distinction between the current president and our country. That flag stands for a hell of a lot more than one shitty president.[/QUOTE]


Actually, waving a flag upside down is the international signal for distress. They mentioned this on one of the seasons of Survivor, since in one of the challenges one of the teams did this. Ah, the things you learn on reality TV. :)
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']Actually, waving a flag upside down is the international signal for distress. They mentioned this on one of the seasons of Survivor, since in one of the challenges one of the teams did this. Ah, the things you learn on reality TV. :)[/QUOTE]
I learned that watching the original V mini-series. :)
 
>>flag on a pole that they were carrying upside down. fuck THEM.

I was a boyscout and as Z pointed out it means distress.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_flag

[quote name='Wikipedia']There is a great deal of protocol involved in the proper display of national flags. For example, national flags should never be flown upside down (where this is possible) except as a distress signal.

There are many regulations concerning the display of national flags, but the general rule is that the national flag should be flown in the position of honor, and not in an inferior position to any other flag (although some countries make an exception for royal standards). The following regulations are typical.[/QUOTE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_signal

[quote name='Wikipedia']A distress signal is an internationally recognized means of obtaining help by using a radio, displaying a visual object or making noise from a distance.

A distress signal indicates that a ship, aircraft, or other vehicle is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance. Use of distress signals in other circumstances may be against local or international law.[/QUOTE]

So is the United States a ship or aircraft?

[quote name='evanft']Pwned.[/QUOTE]



Remember kids, just cause something is anti-Bush, doesn't automatically make it worth arguing for.
 
There is a great deal of protocol involved in the proper display of national flags. For example, national flags should never be flown upside down (where this is possible) except as a distress signal.

There are many regulations concerning the display of national flags, but the general rule is that the national flag should be flown in the position of honor, and not in an inferior position to any other flag (although some countries make an exception for royal standards). The following regulations are typical.
Click to expand...

Ok, let's look at this more closely.

For example, national flags should never be flown upside down (where this is possible) except as a distress signal.

but the general rule is that the national flag should be flown in the position of honor, and not in an inferior position to any other flag

general

applying to all or most members of a category or group; "the general public"; "general assistance"; "a general rule"; "in general terms"; "comprehensible to the general reader"
Click to expand...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLC,GGLC:1969-53,GGLC:en&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:general

Ok, so general means most time. So in understanding the term "general rule" that would mean a rule that applies in most situations. Which means it has exceptions. Therefore, a nation in distress could be considered an exception to the normal condition of a nation, and, if your nation is in distress, an upside down flag would be how you'd express that.

So what is it now, re-owned?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Ok, let's look at this more closely.

For example, national flags should never be flown upside down (where this is possible) except as a distress signal.

but the general rule is that the national flag should be flown in the position of honor, and not in an inferior position to any other flag

general


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLC,GGLC:1969-53,GGLC:en&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:general

Ok, so general means most time. So in understanding the term "general rule" that would mean a rule that applies in most situations. Which means it has exceptions. Therefore, a nation in distress could be considered an exception to the normal condition of a nation, and, if your nation is in distress, an upside down flag would be how you'd express that.

So what is it now, re-owned?[/QUOTE]

No, its where the fuck do you come up with this?

Disliking the president is not cause for a claim of a nation in distress. Plain and simple.

Believe me, I don't mind most criticism of the president or the war in Iraq. In fact, the majority of the time I agree with the criticism. The problem is that when people start flying the flag upside down as a protesting tactic (and then justifying it by saying that it means the nation is in distress and so on and so forth) it marginalizes the content of the entire message. It makes you look like an extremist and therefore the content of your entire message is easily disregarded.

Think of when Quack and PAD used to get into their little spats on the VS. boards. Despite the fact that both of them would raise interesting or insightful points regarding their topic, the vast majority of their posts were marginalized and therefore their points were lost.
 
It has nothing to do with how accurate their opinion is. The only point is if they are arguing their country is in distress (while I can't know their particular opinion, that is a very common one among protestors), then an upside down flag is a legitimate way of showing that.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']It has nothing to do with how accurate their opinion is. The only point is if they are arguing their country is in distress (while I can't know their particular opinion, that is a very common one among protestors), then an upside down flag is a legitimate way of showing that.[/QUOTE]

It isn't accuracy of their opinion I have a problem with. Its the fact that they are using extreme imagery, and far out justifications to prove their point.

Do you ever take pro-life protesters seriously when they post vivid pictures of abortions? No, I see it as offensive and therefore have no reason to listen to anything else they have to say. While they can use the justification that the pictures are the truth of abortion, it doesn't change the offensiveness of the image.
 
>>Disliking the president is not cause for a claim of a nation in distress.

Its not just that W is disliked, he is seriously fucking up this country.

It is not flag burning.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']It isn't accuracy of their opinion I have a problem with. Its the fact that they are using extreme imagery, and far out justifications to prove their point.

Do you ever take pro-life protesters seriously when they post vivid pictures of abortions? No, I see it as offensive and therefore have no reason to listen to anything else they have to say. While they can use the justification that the pictures are the truth of abortion, it doesn't change the offensiveness of the image.[/QUOTE]

I think everyone should have to see the result of what they support. If you support abortion you should have to see the result, same with hunting, same with war. There is assumed pain and suffering on the part of your decision, the only reason I have any issue with abortion one is because it is essentially dishonest. They argue that there is pain and suffering on those aborted when, according to medical science, the overwhelming majority are aborted before they can feel any pain or can produce conscious thought. They exploit imagery to argue something that isn't occuring in the vast majority of cases.

While explicit imagery may turn people off and make you appear as a nutcase, it doesn't mean it's not correct or legitimate. It just means it's not always the best way to be heard. It does not mean it's offensive, and even if it is, it does not mean that the basic argument or information is factually wrong. There isn't a point in our history where, if you emphasize certain issues, you couldn't argue our nation is in distress. Be it war, civil rights etc. there's always something.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I think everyone should have to see the result of what they support. If you support abortion you should have to see the result, same with hunting, same with war. There is assumed pain and suffering on the part of your decision, the only reason I have any issue with abortion one is because it is essentially dishonest. They argue that there is pain and suffering on those aborted when, according to medical science, the overwhelming majority are aborted before they can feel any pain or can produce conscious thought. They exploit imagery to argue something that isn't occuring in the vast majority of cases.

While explicit imagery may turn people off and make you appear as a nutcase, it doesn't mean it's not correct or legitimate. It just means it's not always the best way to be heard. It does not mean it's offensive, and even if it is, it does not mean that the basic argument or information is factually wrong. There isn't a point in our history where, if you emphasize certain issues, you couldn't argue our nation is in distress. Be it war, civil rights etc. there's always something.[/QUOTE]

See, what I underlined is exactly what I'm trying to say.

The point is that while the basic argument or information may not be factually wrong, but the perception will be that it can be dismissed because it is extreme or offensive.
 
[quote name='Msut77']>>Disliking the president is not cause for a claim of a nation in distress.

Its not just that W is disliked, he is seriously fucking up this country.

It is not flag burning.[/QUOTE]

See, that may be your opinion of Bush but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily everyone's opinion. There happen to be a great number of people out there who fully support his actions and believe he is one of the best presidents we have ever had.
 
>>There happen to be a great number of people out there who fully support his actions and believe he is one of the best presidents we have ever had.

According to recent polls they arent the majority anymore.

>>here happen to be a great number of people out there who fully support his actions and believe he is one of the best presidents we have ever had.

Exactly, those people are brainwashed drones. So its not as if they upon seeing what you think is extreme symbolism will change their views one iota.

They drank the kool aid, if they bitch and moan who cares?
 
[quote name='Msut77']>>There happen to be a great number of people out there who fully support his actions and believe he is one of the best presidents we have ever had.

According to recent polls they arent the majority anymore.

>>here happen to be a great number of people out there who fully support his actions and believe he is one of the best presidents we have ever had.

Exactly, those people are brainwashed drones. So its not as if they upon seeing what you think is extreme symbolism will change their views one iota.

They drank the kool aid, if they bitch and moan who cares?[/QUOTE]

See, this is an example of extremism. You may have legitimate complaints about the president but now I will choose not to listen to them because you start saying such assinine things like the people who disagree with you politically are little more than brainwashed drones who "drank the kool aid". Even if I agree with your disliking of Bush, I don't agree with your methods of debate.

One of the points of politics is that you have to realize that more often than not, you can't change people's views. That is something you have to realize, no matter what your tactics are, its a difficult thing to do. Instead, you have to present information to them that supports your point of view and let them make their own decisions and come to them on their own.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']See, what I underlined is exactly what I'm trying to say.



The point is that while the basic argument or information may not be factually wrong, but the perception will be that it can be dismissed because it is extreme or offensive.[/QUOTE]

Ya, but the whole argument was based on this statement

This reminds me of something I saw 2 days ago that absolutely pissed me off. They were showing anti-war/bush protests at the University of Minnesota on the news. That's fine, its everyone's right if they want to protest and walk out of class. The thing I had a huge problem with is that someone in the crowd had a huge (5x8) flag on a pole that they were carrying upside down. fuck THEM. Seriously, some people need to realize that there is a distinction between the current president and our country. That flag stands for a hell of a lot more than one shitty president.
Click to expand...

And whether a u.s. flag could be upside down without it being anti american.

I've made comments about methods of debate and advocacy both on this board and in political groups I've been a member of. People need to conduct themselves differently when public perception matters than when they are with own kind. Some fights and arguments are counter productive to your cause, no matter how much you believe in them.
 
>>You may have legitimate complaints about the president but now I will choose not to listen to them

Ask me if I care.

>>you can't change people's views.

As long as they arent too extreme you can, is that what you were saying?

See because thats what I was saying but you were to busy choosing not to listen to me.

And as I was saying with the really hardcore Bushistas, you cannot change their minds.

No matter how many facts you present.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Ya, but the whole argument was based on this statement



And whether a u.s. flag could be upside down without it being anti american.

I've made comments about methods of debate and advocacy both on this board and in political groups I've been a member of. People need to conduct themselves differently when public perception matters than when they are with own kind. Some fights and arguments are counter productive to your cause, no matter how much you believe in them.[/QUOTE]

See, what I'm saying is that the flag, and any improper/abnormal displaying of it, is typically seen as an anti-American sentiment. Even if that was not their intention, they had to realize that the display of the flag in a situation like this, has been and will continue to be, a controversial subject.

Is it possible that his intention was to show the country in distress? Sure is, the problem though, is that the average joe is not going to realize that an upside down flag is a symbol of distress. I had even known about the upside down flag as a symbol of distress myself already, (from the movie The Last Castle) yet I had forgotten about it because it isn't a situation that normally occurs for the vast majority of us.
 
>>and any improper/abnormal displaying of it, is typically seen as an anti-American sentiment.

We seem to be going in circles.
 
[quote name='Msut77']>>and any improper/abnormal displaying of it, is typically seen as an anti-American sentiment.

We seem to be going in circles.[/QUOTE]

Yet your still trying to butt your way into said circle...

You obviously chose to ignore the part about abnormal display. You can debate the improper display part but unless you can tell me you see the flag displayed upside down on a regular basis, flying it upside down is abnormal.
 
>>You obviously chose to ignore the part about abnormal display.

I usually ignore things that are unimportant. Your whole argument is what it makes you a sad Panda.

>>flying it upside down is abnormal.

That would the point.

The point that went zooming over your head at roughly the speed of sound.

These are abnormal times, the country is being driven into the ground by the dishonest halfbright spawn of the Bush family.

P.s. Using your logic just flying the flag is abnormal since you dont see one in a public display every day.
 
[quote name='Msut77']>>You obviously chose to ignore the part about abnormal display.

I usually ignore things that are unimportant. Your whole argument is what it makes you a sad Panda.

>>flying it upside down is abnormal.

That would the point.

The point that went zooming over your head at roughly the speed of sound.

These are abnormal times, the country is being driven into the ground by the dishonest halfbright spawn of the Bush family.

P.s. Using your logic just flying the flag is abnormal since you dont see one in a public display every day.[/QUOTE]

So rather than listen to what I'm saying, you'll just call me a "sad panda". Sounds good. Now let's use a little inductive reasoning here:

1)Flying the flag upside down is abnormal
2)I stated the flag being displayed in an abnormal sense is controversial
THEREFORE
Flying the flag upside down is controversial.

Keep up junior.

BTW, do you even LIVE in the US cause I don't know about you but I can't drive more than a mile or two without seeing an american flag.
 
Whether it's abnormal, and whether many will take it as anti american, that still doesn't change the fact that it is an appropriate way to display a flag if you feel your nation is in distress.

Though, while you should see a flag every day, I think the area effects how often. Flags aren't littered everywhere around here, most schools, libraries and post offices in suburbs have them, but in downtowns (or whatever area functions like one) and cities, with limited space, many don't. You don't see very many on houses and businesses that are clearly visible when driving. If you spend your time in commercial areas (ie. malls and surrounding stores) or in boston and surrounding cities, it's entirely possible to not drive by obviouisly visible flags.

I've been in areas where flags were everywhere though.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']See, what I'm saying is that the flag, and any improper/abnormal displaying of it, is typically seen as an anti-American sentiment.[/QUOTE]

Who or what is anti-American?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Do you ever take pro-life protesters seriously when they post vivid pictures of abortions? No, I see it as offensive and therefore have no reason to listen to anything else they have to say. While they can use the justification that the pictures are the truth of abortion, it doesn't change the offensiveness of the image.[/QUOTE]

So showing you how twisted and downright evil abortion really is by using pictures is offensive, but saying it's okay to murder babies is fine?

EDIT: I guess that came out a little strong in the second part of the sentence. What I'm trying to say is that the images SHOULD be offensive, because the viewpoint being expressed is that abortion is offensive.
 
>>1)Flying the flag upside down is abnormal

A person Flying the flag is abnormal. If a person displays it 24/7 they are doing it wrong.
If you took it down at etc. you would be ok but none of those guys ever seem to do that.

So they end up saluting the Pink and Light Blue.

>2)I stated the flag being displayed in an abnormal sense is controversial
THEREFORE Flying the flag upside down is controversial.

Its only controversial to people who are ignorant of proper treatment of the flag. To bad those uber patriots are too busy to learn about our flag.
 
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