Nintendo leaving the "gamer" market...

pumbaa

pumbaa

CAGiversary!
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7502

Gotta love misleading topic headlines, but it IS partially true.

Read the article and post some opinions. This is the reason Nintendo gets so much flack in our gamer community. They aren't going after us... and I think its the smartest move you can make. It true about the DS... I konw more girls that have one than guys. Should be interesting to see if this pays off.
 
[quote name='JimmieMac']It's all a bunch of lies.You don't know any girls.[/quote]

LMAO. You right. I don't. DAMMIT.
 
I wish Iwata and all the former pawns of Hiroshi Yamauchi would go away. Make Reggie the head of Nintendo already damn it!
 
Both exciting and scary at the same time. On the one hand, I'm very interested in games like Nintendogs and Electroplankton, but on the other hand, I'd hate for games like that to be the ruin of Nintendo.
 
[quote name='AdamInPlaidum']Both exciting and scary at the same time. On the one hand, I'm very interested in games like Nintendogs and Electroplankton, but on the other hand, I'd hate for games like that to be the ruin of Nintendo.[/quote]

Well as a Nintendo fan... I'm excited about the games that "arent" for me as well. Electroplankton looks cool and off the wall... and Nintendogs looks entertaining as well (Tamagotchi for grownups...)

But I've always liked "nongame" games...

I think the hardest thing for Nintendo is going to be communicating to these nongamers that this isn't a typical game system.
 
That's pretty interesting... It is true that unless Nintendo does somethiny, Sony and Microsoft will dominate the next market, imo. But personally, I would like to see nintendo come out with a whole new game at the same level as Zelda or Metroid on the DS or Revolution, or even put out new games of there series (which they inevitably will), rather than try to be incredibly innovative.
 
The article is great. Its not so much that Nintendo is leaving the gamers that they already have. They don't want that. They know how to make games that appeal to gamers and they will continue to offer us those. What they are also trying to do is make games that appeal to the non gamers as well. I completely agree with their attitude. The market is made by gamers for gamers, but my fiance' rarely has any interest nor my parents nor my co workers. If Nintendo can come up with ways to appeal to them too, then more power to them as they've done something no one else has managed to do. Heck, Nintendo has already done so with Animal Crossing. I've had the game for almost 2 years and my fiance' still plays it at least once a week. I can't get her to play anything else, but she loves Animal Crossing.

Releasing bigger, more powerful systems is not going to make the gameplay any better. I think Nintendo is right that making something better is not just about improving graphics, its about improving the entire experience. I hope they can do it and if so you can be sure others will follow trying once again to take over a market Nintendo helped create.
 
But you see the thing is currently Nintendo games appeal to either gamers or people who don't play video games. The average video game player doesn't care about Nintendo, but the true gamer still enjoys Nintendo because they produce games with good gameplay. I know that I am making quite a few broad sweeping generalizations with this, but for the most part it seems true.
 
[quote name='AdamInPlaidum'][quote name='CrashSpyro123']The link's not working.[/quote]

Still works for me.[/quote]

Hmm, now it's working, but it wasn't before. Damn them.
 
I think what Nintendo is doing is very smart. Lets face it, their last two consoles are pretty much failures. The N64 was beaten by Sony, and the Gamecube is being beaten by Sony and Microsoft. Also, their reluctance to go online and churn out several quality games a month hampers them. Nintendo NEEDS innovation if they will survive. That brings me to their biggest problem: they need to actually stick with it and support it.
 
[quote name='AdamInPlaidum']Both exciting and scary at the same time. On the one hand, I'm very interested in games like Nintendogs and Electroplankton, but on the other hand, I'd hate for games like that to be the ruin of Nintendo.[/quote]

Nintendogs will most likely be a best seller for the DS and will probably see a sequel in the future. Electroplankton on the other hand.....

I admire what Nintendo is doing and they are producing some of their best and most innovative games yet, but it can turn out to be the "ruin of" them. I don't really know what can save them at this point. In the past it would have been as simple as a realistic Zelda or new Mario game, but I don't think that will work now (not so much in Japan, but in Europe/Australia/North America).

I'm 23 right now, so that all seems enticing to me, but the majority of gamers are younger than I am. I imagine that any gamer 18 or younger would be considered part of the Playstation generation or perhaps even the Xbox generation. With each generation, Nintendo is taking up less of the pie and if they continue this line, all that will be left will be the loyalists (if that's not the case already). This whole "innovation-revolution-evolution" thing seems risky, but really, what else can they do right now? I'm not saying they shouldn't make a new Zelda or Mario, but they need games like Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, or Nintendogs (even the DS in general) to revitalize them, just as games like Pokemon did during the N64 era. The only thing is, once they've gone this path, they have to put everything they got into it or the DS and the Revolution (assuming it really is innovative) will turn out to be the next Virtual Boys.
 
Did anyone remeber games like The Sims and Myst? Those are some of the most sucesful PC games of all time, and they are able to get people who are not interest in games to buy it. If Nintendogs turns out to be a great game and market the right way, it could be one of those ideas that everyone wish they had.
 
[quote name='clockworkvictim']But personally, I would like to see nintendo come out with a whole new game at the same level as Zelda or Metroid on the DS or Revolution, or even put out new games of there series (which they inevitably will), rather than try to be incredibly innovative.[/quote]

I'd want the innovation built into a new series.
What was the last new Nintendo franchise that we've seen, though? Pikmin? Seriously, Nintendo, you can do more than just that.
Though I'd love to play some Pikmin DS, I'd rather see Nintendo develop a brand new franchise...that's actually a game and not some pseudogame like Electroplankton...that could never be played on a console without touch screen capability.
 
Point blank Nintendo caters to the JPN market TOO MUCH! If they were smart they would put more care into the NA and Euro markets to insure there Future. I mean You see the Viking's knocking down your door down on all fronts now(PSP ref) and you continue to watch one area of you castle It's like watching a milwaukee brewers game!
 
[quote name='Michaellvortega']Point blank Nintendo caters to the JPN market TOO MUCH! If they were smart they would put more care into the NA and Euro markets to insure there Future. I mean You see the Viking's knocking down your door down on all fronts now(PSP ref) and you continue to watch one area of you castle It's like watching a milwaukee brewers game![/quote]

I disagree with you for almost your same reason. I think they do cater a ton to the Japanese market. But, in Japan, they are still king. If they lose Japanese loyalty, they are done. They've dominated in Japan for 20 years, I would make sure that market is happy too.

I really think people are too worried about the ruining of Nintendo. Nintendo has been using this strategy for years. Let's be honest, if Nintendo was struggling, they would change up. Instead, they are happy to innovate their products (what other company would risk cell shading their biggest franchise and alienate their fans. It's the same as if Theft Auto did something off the wall like cell shading, or making the whole game take place in a single plane. It could work, but it could bomb).

I just think that Nindtendo is what it is, and as long as they are turning a profit, they have no intention to change.
 
[quote name='manofpeace20']I think what Nintendo is doing is very smart. Lets face it, their last two consoles are pretty much failures. The N64 was beaten by Sony, and the Gamecube is being beaten by Sony and Microsoft. Also, their reluctance to go online and churn out several quality games a month hampers them. Nintendo NEEDS innovation if they will survive. That brings me to their biggest problem: they need to actually stick with it and support it.[/quote]

I disagree with the GC being a failure. It held its own in America with the X-Box and outsells the Box in Japan on a regular basis. Nintendo will always survive as long as they make money. Last time I checked, they were still making lots of it.

Whom outsells whom matters only in the minds of fanboys and little kids.
 
[quote name='Blitz'][quote name='manofpeace20']I think what Nintendo is doing is very smart. Lets face it, their last two consoles are pretty much failures. The N64 was beaten by Sony, and the Gamecube is being beaten by Sony and Microsoft. Also, their reluctance to go online and churn out several quality games a month hampers them. Nintendo NEEDS innovation if they will survive. That brings me to their biggest problem: they need to actually stick with it and support it.[/quote]

I disagree with the GC being a failure. It held its own in America with the X-Box and outsells the Box in Japan on a regular basis. Nintendo will always survive as long as they make money. Last time I checked, they were still making lots of it.

Whom outsells whom matters only in the minds of fanboys and little kids.[/quote]

And stockholders.

To feel the need to mention outselling Xbox in Japan whiffs of desperation. It's no secret that the Xbox had certain severe handicaps in that market. You can write off Japan and still have a very strong platform elsewhere, i.e. Sega MegaDrive/Genesis. That doesn't explain why Nintendo has so much difficulty there as well, when they once ruled it. As for the US, no, it isn't holding its own against the Xbox. The installed base gap has grown steadily and the severe lack of third party support has made the platform produce much less revenue for all involved, leading to decreasing display area in many major retail chains. Take away Nintendo's portable revenues and you have a company that is teetering on a cashflow crisis akin to that which made Sega unable to continue in the platform business. They make money but not on the GameCube at a margin that would sustain the company if that were the core business.

Which is where stockholders come in. Once a year Nintendo has to put on a show for those outside the company holding large blocks of stock and explain their policies. If they don't put on a very convincing presentation for their next console they may have a vey hard time justifying their continued presence in that business that, in the eyes of the stockholders, only serves to dilute margins.
 
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Blitz'][quote name='manofpeace20']I think what Nintendo is doing is very smart. Lets face it, their last two consoles are pretty much failures. The N64 was beaten by Sony, and the Gamecube is being beaten by Sony and Microsoft. Also, their reluctance to go online and churn out several quality games a month hampers them. Nintendo NEEDS innovation if they will survive. That brings me to their biggest problem: they need to actually stick with it and support it.[/quote]

I disagree with the GC being a failure. It held its own in America with the X-Box and outsells the Box in Japan on a regular basis. Nintendo will always survive as long as they make money. Last time I checked, they were still making lots of it.

Whom outsells whom matters only in the minds of fanboys and little kids.[/quote]

And stockholders.

To feel the need to mention outselling Xbox in Japan whiffs of desperation. It's no secret that the Xbox had certain severe handicaps in that market. You can write off Japan and still have a very strong platform elsewhere, i.e. Sega MegaDrive/Genesis. That doesn't explain why Nintendo has so much difficulty there as well, when they once ruled it. As for the US, no, it isn't holding its own against the Xbox. The installed base gap has grown steadily and the severe lack of third party support has made the platform produce much less revenue for all involved, leading to decreasing display area in many major retail chains. Take away Nintendo's portable revenues and you have a company that is teetering on a cashflow crisis akin to that which made Sega unable to continue in the platform business. They make money but not on the GameCube at a margin that would sustain the company if that were the core business.

Which is where stockholders come in. Once a year Nintendo has to put on a show for those outside the company holding large blocks of stock and explain their policies. If they don't put on a very convincing presentation for their next console they may have a vey hard time justifying their continued presence in that business that, in the eyes of the stockholders, only serves to dilute margins.[/quote]

Which is exactly why this "nongamer" thing makes so much sense. I mean sure its risky, but to a stockholder I would assume the goal of targeting an entirely different market would make them perk up. I'm pretty sure Nintendo realizes how important the next two systems they release will be.
The Revolution will make or break them in the home console market, and GameBoy Evolution will either give the market to Sony or shut them out from it (ala Game Boy Pocket & GameGear). Its a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan, but the future of my favorite company is definitly up for stakes in this generation.
 
I like videogames, Nintendogs is a virtual pet... I could buy a real dog instead of a glorified tech demo.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this, but I really thought Nintendo was headed in the right direction with GC and Advance. I'm a little disappointed in their change of strategy.

Games like Warioware Touched are a fun way to reach both casual gamers and people who have been with Nintendo for the long haul. I'd rather see more innovation in both markets if they are determined not to cater just to "gamers".
 
[quote name='pumbaa']
Which is exactly why this "nongamer" thing makes so much sense. I mean sure its risky, but to a stockholder I would assume the goal of targeting an entirely different market would make them perk up. I'm pretty sure Nintendo realizes how important the next two systems they release will be.
The Revolution will make or break them in the home console market, and GameBoy Evolution will either give the market to Sony or shut them out from it (ala Game Boy Pocket & GameGear). Its a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan, but the future of my favorite company is definitly up for stakes in this generation.[/quote]

If nintendo really wants to bring in "nongamers" they need to focus more on games for cellphones, flash (bejewled, cubis zuba like games), DVD players and cheap portable games along the lines of tamagotchi. Non-games are going to balk at the price of a system if it only has a few quirky games they may be interested. The next generation systems could cost over $500 at lauch, how many people who have 0 interest at the moment are going to want to pay $500 so they can play 2-3 games when they don't even enjoy games in the first place? If you want to target a new audience you do it with cheap games/systems that appeal to them while at the same time having another function, cell phones and flash games are perfect for this. People get bored at work or on the bus and want something to do, well if they already have a cell phone or an office comp. they can take up bejewled or mahjong and from there they might get interested in other games. While Nintendo focuses on this fringe group hardcore gamers will continue to be driven off just like many have been due to lack of interest in most N64 and GC titles.

And really could your fanboyism be any more apperent?
It's a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan?
Click to expand...
:?: Do you work for the company or something? The GC has been a failure and we haven't seen a scrap of evidence that will suggest that the Revolution will fair any better.
 
If you're going to bring up stockholders, you have to start talking about Microsoft. How many billions of dollars have they lost on the Xbox so far? Their strategy seems to be to cater solely to the male graphics/electronics whore (disclaimer: of which I am one), and almost completely ignore the female/child market.
 
How exactly has the GameCube been a failure? This statement is usually made by someone who feels the Xbox is an unqualified success. Yes, the games are pretty. But the company has lost billions of dollars on their console, is virtually nonexistent in several markets, has an overabundance of some genres and a dearth of others.
 
[quote name='adamsappel']If you're going to bring up stockholders, you have to start talking about Microsoft. How many billions of dollars have they lost on the Xbox so far? Their strategy seems to be to cater solely to the male graphics/electronics whore (disclaimer: of which I am one), and almost completely ignore the female/child market.[/quote]

This may have been true the first few years the XBOX was on the market, but since late 2004 XBOX really has become more mainstream and popular (they even released a child's line of Platinum Hits titles). just look at how many major titles they had come out and of course the emergence of XBOX Live. Yes, they did lose alot of money, and still lose money on each XBOX system that they sell. However, there is no denying their fanbase has grown by leaps and bounds and achieved what they hoped for with the XBOX. They didn't achieve the immediate success of Sony when they entered the videogame market, but Microsoft has an excellent shot at becoming number one when Xenon gets released and they will likely recoup any lost money over time.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='pumbaa']
Which is exactly why this "nongamer" thing makes so much sense. I mean sure its risky, but to a stockholder I would assume the goal of targeting an entirely different market would make them perk up. I'm pretty sure Nintendo realizes how important the next two systems they release will be.
The Revolution will make or break them in the home console market, and GameBoy Evolution will either give the market to Sony or shut them out from it (ala Game Boy Pocket & GameGear). Its a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan, but the future of my favorite company is definitly up for stakes in this generation.[/quote]

If nintendo really wants to bring in "nongamers" they need to focus more on games for cellphones, flash (bejewled, cubis zuba like games), DVD players and cheap portable games along the lines of tamagotchi. Non-games are going to balk at the price of a system if it only has a few quirky games they may be interested. The next generation systems could cost over $500 at lauch, how many people who have 0 interest at the moment are going to want to pay $500 so they can play 2-3 games when they don't even enjoy games in the first place? If you want to target a new audience you do it with cheap games/systems that appeal to them while at the same time having another function, cell phones and flash games are perfect for this. People get bored at work or on the bus and want something to do, well if they already have a cell phone or an office comp. they can take up bejewled or mahjong and from there they might get interested in other games. While Nintendo focuses on this fringe group hardcore gamers will continue to be driven off just like many have been due to lack of interest in most N64 and GC titles.

And really could your fanboyism be any more apperent?
It's a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan?
Click to expand...
:?: Do you work for the company or something? The GC has been a failure and we haven't seen a scrap of evidence that will suggest that the Revolution will fair any better.[/quote]

Just because I'm a fan of the company doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. If I've got my definitions correct, and fanboy is someone who sprouts off arguements without any thought process behind it. A blind follower of a specific company who sees no wrong. If this is the definition, then obviously you've pinned me in the wrong way. There is no doubt that I love the company, but I can see its flaws and its weaknesses.

It's an exciting time to be a Nintendo fan because they are going in new directions and finally seem to have waken up to the fact that they are losing market share and influence. They finally are trying to DO something about it.

The GC was a disappointment as far as sales go (I'm assuming their goal was to overtake the Playstation), but I don't think it could be seen as a "failure" (I'd consider systems like GameGear, Saturn, Game.com, 3DO as "failures").

I'd take more offense to the "fanboy" label you throw around... but it just doesnt even fit with the post. Don't discount the opinions of someone else by just telling yourself that they are a "fanboy". I'd give the same respect to you.
 
[quote name='pumbaa'][quote name='JimmieMac']It's all a bunch of lies.You don't know any girls.[/quote]

LMAO. You right. I don't. DAMMIT.[/quote]

Wait....Girls dont play video games!
 
[quote name='pumbaa']
Just because I'm a fan of the company doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. If I've got my definitions correct, and fanboy is someone who sprouts off arguements without any thought process behind it. A blind follower of a specific company who sees no wrong. If this is the definition, then obviously you've pinned me in the wrong way. There is no doubt that I love the company, but I can see its flaws and its weaknesses.[/quote]

Really? I've yet to hear anything but praise for Nintendo and their wonderful systems from you. You seem to kiss Nintendo's ass every chance you get, especially when they don't deserve it.
[quote name='pumbaa']
It's an exciting time to be a Nintendo fan because they are going in new directions and finally seem to have waken up to the fact that they are losing market share and influence. They finally are trying to DO something about it. [/quote]
New direction? I don't see anything "new" about this direction. Basically they've said they are going to make quirky games to appeal to nongamers. Haven't they already done this with Animal crossing and pikmin? Those are a number of quirky little games that quite a large amount of the gamming community has no interest in. Animal crossing was created with the idea of getting the whole family involved even the "nongamers" it seems more like a statement of hey we are going to continue down this doomed path until our investors kill us.

[quote name='pumbaa']
The GC was a disappointment as far as sales go (I'm assuming their goal was to overtake the Playstation), but I don't think it could be seen as a "failure" (I'd consider systems like GameGear, Saturn, Game.com, 3DO as "failures"). [/quote]
I think it is a much greater failure, Nintendo was top dog and they lost the majority of the market share. The N64 lost their majority market share and on their rebound system the GC they fell flat on their faces. The worst part about this is unlike the N64 which had problems due to the size of a game you could fit on a cart the GC problems have all been nintendo's fault, the controller, the custom made small disk size, the titles they release and their lack of focus on keeping 3rd party titles comming out for the system. I'd give much more credit to those other failures since several of those were entrances into a newer less explored market, the problem with the GC was Nintendo not the lack of an established disk based system market.

[quote name='pumbaa']
I'd take more offense to the "fanboy" label you throw around... but it just doesnt even fit with the post. Don't discount the opinions of someone else by just telling yourself that they are a "fanboy". I'd give the same respect to you.[/quote]
But you are a fanboy, in every single post you make about Nintendo you praise them to the heavens even when it doesn't make sense. Come on:
It's a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan
Click to expand...
That is the exact type of line I would expect to hear from a company rep. or a fanboy.
 
[quote name='adamsappel']If you're going to bring up stockholders, you have to start talking about Microsoft. How many billions of dollars have they lost on the Xbox so far? Their strategy seems to be to cater solely to the male graphics/electronics whore (disclaimer: of which I am one), and almost completely ignore the female/child market.[/quote]

Microsoft has had much more expensive ventures. MSN (the ISP portion) has never made a penny but it was seen as valuable to have that channel to consumers.

The Xbox capital investment was clearly detailed going in. They made it clear the first generation of their console business would probably not produce any net profits but would serve only to establish Microsoft in the business. This is nothing new for MS. The Microsoft 3.0 rule not only applies to how long it takes to make a really competitive entry into a new software business but also to how long it takes to build up a customer base who feels more attached to your product than the competition.

The Xbox business has had ups and downs, largely due to the unprecedented speed with which the product went from concept to retail, but it is winding down this generation on a positive note. Despite being practically non-existent in one major market, Microsoft has managed to acquire a firm #2 status in the console business worldwide. The division recently announced its first profitable quarter and their plans for the next generation are well defined without waiting for the current business to fade.

Notably, it was during the period when the Xbox business operated that Microsoft paid its first ever dividends, making a massive payoff to major stockholders and giving them every reason to be quite happy with their choice.

The exclusion of the younger demographic from Xbox was largely the choice of thrid parties. Many kid friendly franchises that appeared on PS2 and GameCube skipped Xbox in their original release. But something interesting happened. Xbox delivered a much higher attach rate for third party products and a somewhat better installed base in Western markets than Nintendo. Once it became clear the market for more diverse titles existed the publishers responded. Spongebob, Sccoby Doo, Harry Potter, and other franchises had their existing PS2/GC titles ported to Xbox, and newer entries received simultaneous launches as well.

As for women, DOA Beach Volleyball proved surprisingly popular among women due to the relationship management aspect. Also of note, the appearance of a dedicated exercise non-game product had the Xbox as its launching point on the presumption that it was the machine most likely to be in the homes of women in the target age range. finally, Dance Dance Revolution has also found its way to Xbox while Konami sees no market for it on GameCube in the US.
 
[quote name='pumbaa'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Blitz'][quote name='manofpeace20']I think what Nintendo is doing is very smart. Lets face it, their last two consoles are pretty much failures. The N64 was beaten by Sony, and the Gamecube is being beaten by Sony and Microsoft. Also, their reluctance to go online and churn out several quality games a month hampers them. Nintendo NEEDS innovation if they will survive. That brings me to their biggest problem: they need to actually stick with it and support it.[/quote]

I disagree with the GC being a failure. It held its own in America with the X-Box and outsells the Box in Japan on a regular basis. Nintendo will always survive as long as they make money. Last time I checked, they were still making lots of it.

Whom outsells whom matters only in the minds of fanboys and little kids.[/quote]

And stockholders.

To feel the need to mention outselling Xbox in Japan whiffs of desperation. It's no secret that the Xbox had certain severe handicaps in that market. You can write off Japan and still have a very strong platform elsewhere, i.e. Sega MegaDrive/Genesis. That doesn't explain why Nintendo has so much difficulty there as well, when they once ruled it. As for the US, no, it isn't holding its own against the Xbox. The installed base gap has grown steadily and the severe lack of third party support has made the platform produce much less revenue for all involved, leading to decreasing display area in many major retail chains. Take away Nintendo's portable revenues and you have a company that is teetering on a cashflow crisis akin to that which made Sega unable to continue in the platform business. They make money but not on the GameCube at a margin that would sustain the company if that were the core business.

Which is where stockholders come in. Once a year Nintendo has to put on a show for those outside the company holding large blocks of stock and explain their policies. If they don't put on a very convincing presentation for their next console they may have a vey hard time justifying their continued presence in that business that, in the eyes of the stockholders, only serves to dilute margins.[/quote]

Which is exactly why this "nongamer" thing makes so much sense. I mean sure its risky, but to a stockholder I would assume the goal of targeting an entirely different market would make them perk up. I'm pretty sure Nintendo realizes how important the next two systems they release will be.
The Revolution will make or break them in the home console market, and GameBoy Evolution will either give the market to Sony or shut them out from it (ala Game Boy Pocket & GameGear). Its a very exciting time to be a Nintendo fan, but the future of my favorite company is definitly up for stakes in this generation.[/quote]

The problem presented to the stockholders is whether they appear to be withdrawing from the mainstream markets. Imagine if the Porsche brand had a few down years, so the VW board of directors announces at the annual meeting that Porsche will now seek to target the 'occasional driver.' The little old lady who only drives to the market and church? We want to be that car!

Staking out new markets is always good but if your mainstays are being lost, no diversionary tactic is going to draw attention away from that for long.
 
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