Not alot of space/cash. Go CRT HDTV or wait on LCD/Plasma whatever?

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Reality's Fringe

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I'm thinking of buying a newer television, but as a college student I don't have a lot of space or cash. I heard CRT HD are the cheapest and of good quality, but it doesn't seem that there are many sites that sell them over the LCD/Plsma/DLP varieties.

My question is should I get (and where can I get) an inexpensive CRT HDTV, or should I wait until next year when I'll have a little more room and LCDs will be cheaper? I want at the LEAST 26 or 27 inches, and 16:9 format. I'm not an A/vphile, so I'm a bit confused.
Thanks for the help.
 
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CRTs will give MUCH better picture quality than an LCD. There's a huge difference.

First of all, the contrast on a CRT is amazing. They produce BLACK blacks. LCDs can only produce a dark grey. If you're watching something with a lot of detail in the shadows, such as Batman Begins, Harry Potter, Underworld, etc, on an LCD you'll just see big piles of nothing while on a CRT you'll actually see images in the shadows, and be able to make out objects that simply do not exist when watching it on an LCD.

Then there's scaling. CRTs can scale amazingly well, while LCDs are fixed-pixel and simply try to recreate the image at whatever resolution your TV displays. If you have 768 vertical pixels, as most affordable LCDs do, it will break a 720p image and try to create those additional pixels, or downscale a 1080i/p image, losing a lot of detail. By contrast, all HDCRTs can display 480i/p and 1080i, while most support 720p (displayed as 1080i, but with VERY little quality lost). All sources will be scaled and displayed better on a CRT, even disregarded contrast capabilities, and CRTs are also capable of higher resolutions... unless you get a 1080p LCD, which is hella expensive.

In the current market, honestly, you could probably find a similar size LCD cheaper than a CRT... but you should pay the few extra bucks to get the CRT, if you have the space for it. For a quality set, expect to spend around $600 for 27" or $700-$800 for 30". You can find cheaper and you can find more expensive, but I think these are the sweet spots in the current market.
 
[quote name='Koggit']CRTs will give MUCH better picture quality than an LCD. There's a huge difference.

First of all, the contrast on a CRT is amazing. They produce BLACK blacks. LCDs can only produce a dark grey. If you're watching something with a lot of detail in the shadows, such as Batman Begins, Harry Potter, Underworld, etc, on an LCD you'll just see big piles of nothing while on a CRT you'll actually see images in the shadows, and be able to make out objects that simply do not exist when watching it on an LCD.

Then there's scaling. CRTs can scale amazingly well, while LCDs are fixed-pixel and simply try to recreate the image at whatever resolution your TV displays. If you have 768 vertical pixels, as most affordable LCDs do, it will break a 720p image and try to create those additional pixels, or downscale a 1080i/p image, losing a lot of detail. By contrast, all HDCRTs can display 480i/p and 1080i, while most support 720p (displayed as 1080i, but with VERY little quality lost). All sources will be scaled and displayed better on a CRT, even disregarded contrast capabilities, and CRTs are also capable of higher resolutions... unless you get a 1080p LCD, which is hella expensive.

In the current market, honestly, you could probably find a similar size LCD cheaper than a CRT... but you should pay the few extra bucks to get the CRT, if you have the space for it. For a quality set, expect to spend around $600 for 27" or $700-$800 for 30". You can find cheaper and you can find more expensive, but I think these are the sweet spots in the current market.[/QUOTE]

Where does DLP fit into this picture?
 
If room is an issue a CRT will be tough since they're big. If you wait, my understanding is they have some relatively new thing that is halfway between a CRT and plasma or LCD, so fixes a lot of issues and is cheaper. Maybe someone else knows more about it than me, I read the article a month or two ago but it was one of the larger companies doing it and I think they were already getting rolled out so by next year they would be all over the market.
 
Weight of the set isn't really a problem, but thickness probbaly would be. Right now I have a 27 inch SDTV from Walmart, and it's fat as shit. I guess I could wait until prices drop a little more, but I'm sick of 4:3 .

Here's another question, why can't LCD's represent black?
 
I don't think you'll see HD CRTs drop much more. They've been about the same price for the past 3 years or so, honestly. Features have improved a bit, but price has remained the same.

LCDs will likely drop a bit more, it can be cheaper to manufacture panels than CRTs, so there's some more wiggle room there, but even in panels most coming development will be increases in quality rather than decreases in price.

One thing to consider is that a 27" 16:9 set will actually have less screen real-estate than a 27" 4:3 set. If you currently have a 27" 4:3 set, I suggest 30"+ when you go 16:9 unless you don't mind going smaller.
 
[quote name='happy']If room is an issue a CRT will be tough since they're big. If you wait, my understanding is they have some relatively new thing that is halfway between a CRT and plasma or LCD, so fixes a lot of issues and is cheaper. Maybe someone else knows more about it than me, I read the article a month or two ago but it was one of the larger companies doing it and I think they were already getting rolled out so by next year they would be all over the market.[/QUOTE]

It's called SED technology. They'll debut on the market in Q3 or Q4 next year most likely but they will be very pricey and not likely available in anyhting smaller than 42 inches, maybe even 50 (supposedly the first to the market is 50+ in.). So if space and money are concern for him, he'll have to wait sometime for it to hit those constraints.
 
[quote name='secretvampire']I will chime in that CRTs put out the absolute best image for the buck. The ONLY disadvantage is of course size and weight.[/QUOTE]


and having to deal with geometry issues.
 
Samsung has a series of HDTV CRTs called SlimFit that is about 16" deep. A friend of mine bought a 30" a year ago and LOVES it.
 
Kinda funny that right after someone mentions geometry issues, someone mentions SlimFits... SlimFits are the only CRTs notorious for geometry issues.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Kinda funny that right after someone mentions geometry issues, someone mentions SlimFits... SlimFits are the only CRTs notorious for geometry issues.[/QUOTE]

Whazzat?

And that phillips is noice, may go that way. Will it be all good for for an Xbox 360(it doesn't say it supports 720P)?
 
Another thing about CRT is that they don't normally support a true display of 720p. Typically only 480p and 1080i.
 
No CRT can display 720p. They can display 480i, 480p, or 1080i. Many CRTs support 720p, which means if a device sends a 720p signal the the TV will still display an image, but most TVs scale this signal to 1080i. The only three different ways a CRT can display an image are 480i, 480p, and 1080i. A CRT that -does not- support 720p will not display an image at all when you send a 720p signal to it.

Even if the set doesn't support 720p, you can tell the 360 to output 1080i, which you should do with a CRT anyway.
 
I have the 30" Philips refurbed CRT that was linked and it's really nice for the price. It also upconverts 720p -> 1080i so PS3s have no problems with it. I watch videos with XBMC at 1080i and it looks amazing.

Only problem is that, as mentioned earlier, it's fucking heavy. Space-wise it's not that huge, but don't plan on ever moving it by yourself.

All-in-all, probably the best TV you can find for that price (aside from black friday)
 
I've got a couple of the Philips Outlet HDTV's, had them for a couple years now.

You're looking at $345 for a refurb 30" CRT HDTV or about $500 for a new 32" LCD. I was seriously considering picking up an LCD this winter. Other options include a 37" LCD for $700, and a bigass 51" rear projection for maybe $800.

Whichever one you want depends on whats important to you. Those CRT's are a beast and a half, use a lot more electricity, don't support 720p, but have better picture quality and cost less. The LCD has a larger screen, takes up less space, has more connectors, supports 720p, is brand new, has a longer warranty, and is sexier, but costs more, and doesn't display colors as accurately as a CRT, nothing does.

If you have any questions about the Philips Outlet TV's, I can probably answer them.
 
[quote name='reiji']I have the 30" Philips refurbed CRT that was linked and it's really nice for the price. It also upconverts 720p -> 1080i so PS3s have no problems with it. I watch videos with XBMC at 1080i and it looks amazing.

Only problem is that, as mentioned earlier, it's fucking heavy. Space-wise it's not that huge, but don't plan on ever moving it by yourself.

All-in-all, probably the best TV you can find for that price (aside from black friday)[/QUOTE]

Oh wow, it upconverts to 1080i? Bad ass, I'm gettin' that one ASAP.
 
The reason LCDs can't produce a good black is because they actually have lights behind the monitor (kinda like the GBA SP). Without it, the image would be dark as shit.

If you shop around some of the deal sites like FW or SD, you can sometimes find 32" Olevia (many CAGers love the brand) LCD's for under $600 from time to time. I'm not sure what your price range is but...

Oh, and going from 720p-->1080i isn't upconverting... because 1080i has fewer horizontal lines than 720p. Upconverting is when something increases the number of lines.
 
[quote name='Koggit']No CRT can display 720p. They can display 480i, 480p, or 1080i. Many CRTs support 720p, which means if a device sends a 720p signal the the TV will still display an image, but most TVs scale this signal to 1080i. The only three different ways a CRT can display an image are 480i, 480p, and 1080i. A CRT that -does not- support 720p will not display an image at all when you send a 720p signal to it.

Even if the set doesn't support 720p, you can tell the 360 to output 1080i, which you should do with a CRT anyway.[/QUOTE]


Good to know. Didn't know the whole issue was so confusing. :lol:

Anyway, thanks for the help.
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']Oh wow, it upconverts to 1080i? Bad ass, I'm gettin' that one ASAP.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't think it did at first. But if I set my PS3 or XBOX to display 720p it shows up as 1080i! I was pretty happy about that.

I have the 30PW8420 btw.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Kinda funny that right after someone mentions geometry issues, someone mentions SlimFits... SlimFits are the only CRTs notorious for geometry issues.[/QUOTE]

I went through two Sony 34" XBR's with horrible geometry issues before I settled on a LCD so I didnt have to worry about it.
 
I currently use a Panasonic Tau 36" CRT from a few years ago. Bought it used from a friend for $500 last year. Great deal and I love the picture on my 360.

Only question I have is, what are geometry issues? I own a CRT and have never even heard of that issues, even with all the research I did before I bought one.
 
I have owned both, and I recommend paying a little bit more for a lcd flat pannel. Sure, blacks arnt a good, but CRT sets have a max resolution of 540p (or 1080i). 720p is downconverted to 540p, and you can tell the diffrence. Plus, no mater how cheap they get, stay away from those phillips refurbs (unless you get one from that place that will do a extened warrenty). I boutgh one in march, and after the 3 month warrenty was out to the day, the tube started acting up. Well, 2 months after that (5 months since purchase), the tube went out. Phillips doesnt refurb the tvs at all, they just send out their returns. Plus, as stated, they are heavy as hell. I have a 150 lbs piece of shit tv in my front room because I dont have anyone to help me get it out.
 
540p and 1080i are not the same thing, though. The tubes are only firing 540 lines of information, but by interlacing every other frame you're getting much more detail than 720p, and due to the traits of phosphorous there isn't a huge difference in the smoothness of motion.

If you want to know whether interlacing is such a dealbreaker or not, take a look at your current TV. Look at fast motion. Standard def is 480i, interlaced, 240 lines at a time. Can you notice a difference? Likely not, as phosphorous takes a little while to fade. 1080i on a CRT looks damn near as good as 1080p on a fixed-pixel display, very hard to tell something is interlaced on a CRT.
 
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