Not only can you get the Nintendo DS for cheap, homosexuality is not a sin

Requiem

Requiem

CAGiversary!
Continued from deals thread, I'd like to say, there is no basis for calling homosexuality a sin.

It is this type of thinking that has stained the public outlook on homosexuality, forced them into the margins of life, and you are telling them they do not deserve the same basic, human rights as another citizen. How was this outright discrimination different from our wicked slavery days when we had laws saying, in plain text, black men were only equal to 3/5 of a normal man? (or maybe it was 2/5) What do you think that does to the collective psyche of a people?

I am not homosexual but I feel they should be defended because I'm quite tired of these labels (from religion or politics) cloaked onto good, innocent people. The longer we hold onto these ideas the longer it takes for our society to improve.
 
Okay, I really need to see the thread this is linked from before I comment further. I'm certainly no stranger to stretching topics, but to go from Nintendo DS to homosexuality without providing a context is simply boggling.
 
[quote name='Requiem'] black men were only equal to 3/5 of a normal man? (or maybe it was 2/5) What do you think that does to the collective psyche of a people?
[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

You do realize that was for voting purposes of their owners?

At the time they were considered 0/5 of a normal man so far as rights went.
 
[quote name='Requiem']
As for the 3/5 voting rights, I guess I was mistaken on the specifics, but the overall result is the same. A certain group of people stripped of rights either by religion/government or both[/QUOTE]

Look, slavery resulted in the loss of rights. Allowing southern men to vote for the slaves they owned resulted in the 3/5th compromise, it has nothing directly to do with rights.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Look, slavery resulted in the loss of rights. Allowing southern men to vote for the slaves they owned resulted in the 3/5th compromise, it has nothing directly to do with rights.[/QUOTE]

I thought the 3/5th compromise had to do with congress. That is to say, the south wanted blacks to be counted as part of the census, so that they could get more seats in congress, whereas the north didn't want slaves to be counted, since they couldn't vote.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']I thought the 3/5th compromise had to do with congress. That is to say, the south wanted blacks to be counted as part of the census, so that they could get more seats in congress, whereas the north didn't want slaves to be counted, since they couldn't vote.[/QUOTE]

Yes, congress being comprised of people who vote for you. I suppose I really could have worded that better, but main point 3/5ths compromise =/= 3/5ths rights.
 
That's David85 for you. Can't post without saying "Hey guys! I'm gay!". You'd think that if he was secure in that fact, he wouldn't have to keep reinforcing it.
 
[quote name='Quillion']That's David85 for you. Can't post without saying "Hey guys! I'm gay!". You'd think that if he was secure in that fact, he wouldn't have to keep reinforcing it.[/QUOTE]

It's relevant in the context that the conversation went into before he chimed in, as they were talking about the overtly christian nature of the website.
 
But there was no mention of homosexuality, just a bunch of christian haters sending nastygrams to someone for stating that they are religious.

David85 chimed in to make it personal.

It's the second or third time he has stated his homosexuality, (too lazy to find links and count) I can honestly say that other than a few people on the board who mention husbands or wives, I don't know the sexuality of anyone else.
 
[quote name='Quillion']But there was no mention of homosexuality, just a bunch of christian haters sending nastygrams to someone for stating that they are religious.

David85 chimed in to make it personal.

It's the second or third time he has stated his homosexuality, (too lazy to find links and count) I can honestly say that other than a few people on the board who mention husbands or wives, I don't know the sexuality of anyone else.[/QUOTE]


well there is as much point as someone blurtin out they are christian in a deals thread as there is someone saying they are gay
 
[quote name='Requiem']Continued from deals thread, I'd like to say, there is no basis for calling homosexuality a sin.[/QUOTE]

You're wrong. Being Christian and believing in the Bible is plenty good enough basis to call homosexuality a sin. (NOTE: I am not discussing my personal religious beliefs on this board, just talking about Christian beliefs)

Calling homosexuality a sin is also very different from the "discrimination" to which you refer. You compare it with slavery, a laughable comparison. It's closer to something like adultery, which Christians will also tell you is a sin. But other than disapproving of that behavior, nobody is suggesting that adulterers or homosexuals not be served at restaurants or have to use different water fountains.
 
[quote name='Quillion']But there was no mention of homosexuality, just a bunch of christian haters sending nastygrams to someone for stating that they are religious.

David85 chimed in to make it personal.

It's the second or third time he has stated his homosexuality, (too lazy to find links and count) I can honestly say that other than a few people on the board who mention husbands or wives, I don't know the sexuality of anyone else.[/QUOTE]

You know what "heteronormativity" is, don't you?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']You know what "heteronormativity" is, don't you?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[quote name='Ikhon4never']well there is as much point as someone blurtin out they are christian in a deals thread as there is someone saying they are gay[/quote]

Read the thread. The website with the deal had an about page where the operators praised Jesus. No poster just said "Hey guys! I like God!".
 
[quote name='elprincipe']You're wrong. Being Christian and believing in the Bible is plenty good enough basis to call homosexuality a sin. (NOTE: I am not discussing my personal religious beliefs on this board, just talking about Christian beliefs)

Calling homosexuality a sin is also very different from the "discrimination" to which you refer. You compare it with slavery, a laughable comparison. It's closer to something like adultery, which Christians will also tell you is a sin. But other than disapproving of that behavior, nobody is suggesting that adulterers or homosexuals not be served at restaurants or have to use different water fountains.[/QUOTE]

Well the bible does condone slavery. And the idea that blacks were inferior was often justified by the bible, particularly the whole cain and abel thing. Blacks were supposed to be descendents of cain and ham. The mark cain recieved was interpreted as black skin.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Well the bible does condone slavery. And the idea that blacks were inferior was often justified by the bible, particularly the whole cain and abel thing. Blacks were supposed to be descendents of cain and ham. The mark cain recieved was interpreted as black skin.[/QUOTE]
i thought that was just the mormans who believed that (up until recently)?
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']i thought that was just the mormans who believed that (up until recently)?[/QUOTE]

Many protestant groups previously did. I don't think the catholic church ever officially stated the mark placed on cain was black skin, but that is different than saying that catholics did not also use that as justification. I think the official distinctions the church placed on people were always religious, not racial.

Mormon religious texts made the explicit connection with black skin, other groups just interpreted it that way. Mormon leaders had a revelation which reversed the discrimination and (I believe) they removed the scriptural texts. Though slavery is in biblical texts more explicitly than homosexual references.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Well the bible does condone slavery. And the idea that blacks were inferior was often justified by the bible, particularly the whole cain and abel thing. Blacks were supposed to be descendents of cain and ham. The mark cain recieved was interpreted as black skin.[/QUOTE]

All of which has nothing to do with my point that in most Christian faiths homosexuality is considered a sin.
 
[quote name='Quillion']That's David85 for you. Can't post without saying "Hey guys! I'm gay!". You'd think that if he was secure in that fact, he wouldn't have to keep reinforcing it.[/QUOTE]

mmmm sausage.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']All of which has nothing to do with my point that in most Christian faiths homosexuality is considered a sin.[/QUOTE]

It has the same basis though, and the interpretation of those texts changed over time. The bible states homosexuality is a sin only if specific emphasis is placed on certain passages and those passages are understood in a particular way.
 
Here it is:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Click to expand...

Even Jesus approves, suggesting that slaves be beaten even for actions that they didn't know were wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']It has the same basis though, and the interpretation of those texts changed over time. The bible states homosexuality is a sin only if specific emphasis is placed on certain passages and those passages are understood in a particular way.[/QUOTE]

Okay, look, throw out the Bible even. The OP said there is "no basis" for calling homosexuality a sin. I said that if you are Christian (most sects anyway) there certainly is. This is a FACT.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Okay, look, throw out the Bible even. The OP said there is "no basis" for calling homosexuality a sin. I said that if you are Christian (most sects anyway) there certainly is. This is a FACT.[/QUOTE]

Once you throw out the Bible, what's the basis? Where is your proof that the christian god does not approve of gay sex? I am genuinely curious.
 
[quote name='camoor']Once you throw out the Bible, what's the basis? Where is your proof that the christian god does not approve of gay sex? I am genuinely curious.[/QUOTE]

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Proof enough? You know there are SEVERAL more verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality, which is why us Christians do not agree with it. However, this board is full of people who pretty much hate Christians, so why should I even bother...
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Proof enough? You know there are SEVERAL more verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality, which is why us Christians do not agree with it. However, this board is full of people who pretty much hate Christians, so why should I even bother...[/QUOTE]

So we have to take EVERYTHING in the bible literally right?

I hope you're ready to sacrifice one of your sons.

Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. "Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)

and slaves are just peachy keen

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

and let's just kill all kinds of people

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Religious people can be really frightening.

Source: http://www.evilbible.com/
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Proof enough? You know there are SEVERAL more verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality, which is why us Christians do not agree with it. However, this board is full of people who pretty much hate Christians, so why should I even bother...[/QUOTE]

:lol:

Talk about your classic logical paradoxes - trying to teach reading comprehension to a fundamentalist.

Read my question again tayaf69:

Once you throw out the Bible, what's the basis? Where is your proof that the christian god does not approve of gay sex? I am genuinely curious.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Proof enough? You know there are SEVERAL more verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality, which is why us Christians do not agree with it. However, this board is full of people who pretty much hate Christians, so why should I even bother...[/QUOTE]

Luke 14:26: [size=+1][font=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][size=+0]If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

[/size][/size][/font]proof enough that Jesus does indeed preach hate. The original bible uses the greek word miseo, which is a strong word, so it's not a matter of interpretation. The bible is full of a lot of shit like this. The meaning one should take from this is that taking literal meaning from the bible is total BS. The bible should not be read as static document that should have archaic rules enforced. Rather, the bible should only be seen as a guide, not a set of rules.

I suppose that we can forget that the Jewish Religion (the old testament) was envisioned about 6000 years ago. The Christian religion about 2000 years ago. A LOT has changed in those many thousands of years. Why must people adhere strictly to such archaic designs?
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Proof enough? You know there are SEVERAL more verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality, which is why us Christians do not agree with it. However, this board is full of people who pretty much hate Christians, so why should I even bother...[/QUOTE]

Well, quoting the bible doesn't do much for the argument "without the bible what is the basis?".

But you need to believe the bible is word for word true, something many christian scholars dispute. Basically, because it is in the bible does not necessarily mean that is the view of god according to some christians. There is the issue of one translation being translated, then translated again and so on, often obscuring the original meaning. There are also contradictions, inaccuracies, etc. in the bible and some passages need to be favored over others.

Also that line was likely in referrence to male prostitution in pagan temples. The cannanites used sexuality in worship. This fits the context, as many of the previous passages dealt with behaving the way the cannanites behaved and worshipped. The hebrew word for abomination is also usually associated with the cannanites. Another thing that suggests it was not directed at homosexuality is that virtually every law in leviticus is repeated in deuteronomy. But there is one exception, homosexuality is not mentioned in deuteronomy. Instead there is a specific mention of temple prostitution in deuteronomy 23:17

None of the Israelite women shall become a temple-prostitute, nor shall any of the Israelite men become a temple-prostitute. You shall never bring the gains of a harlot or the earnings of a male prostitute as a votive offering to the temple of the Lord your God; for both are abominable to the Lord your God."
Click to expand...

Also, even with the most literal interpretation it only refers to gay men. It does not refer to all homosexuals since it does not mention women. Considering leviticus deals with many sexual acts, and specifically bans both sexes from engaging in sexual relations with animals (and is always gender specific in what it prohibits), the fact that lesbianism is excluded is significant. In any form, even in the most direct, literal interpretation there is no banning of women from engaging in homosexual relationships. Therefore in no way is it an argument against homosexuality as a whole.

Leviticus was essenitally laws governing Israel's priests. It also prohibits men shaving their beards, wearing clothing from blended textiles, bans sex during menstruation, bans certain meats, bans tattoos, requires the sabbath to be saturday etc. It also accepts slavery in leviticus. But the main problem here is that the old laws are not applicable to christians according to galatians 3:22-25

22 But scripture confined all things under the power of sin, that through faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe. 23 Before faith came, we were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. 24 Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian.
Click to expand...

Jesus never mentions homosexuality. Leviticus contains ancient laws that no longer applied once christ came. There are also repeated referrences in the old testament to a coming new covenant and to that new covenant and the new testament.


Also, as to "us christians", why don't you come to boston and I'll direct you to multiple christian churches that openly support gay marriage.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Jesus never mentions homosexuality. Leviticus contains ancient laws that no longer applied once christ came. There are also repeated referrences in the old testament to a coming new covenant and to that new covenant and the new testament.[/QUOTE]

Plus Jesus was a friend to everyone who his society shunned, including lepers and prostitutes. I never understand the "christians" who use verbal abuse (or worse) to condemn people who don't follow the modern-day beliefs and codes of behavior.
 
Ugh. To the whole thread.

Though, I do want to thank you, alonzo, for your intelligent posting. I appreciate that some people can still put forth an educated argument. It seems the VS board is degenerating, thankfully, people like you are still around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top