Not really political but how the hell is USPS losing money?

I may be wrong, the USPS may have gotten help from the government recently, but i'm pretty sure that the USPS is self funded usually. Meaning that although they are a government agency, they aren't funded by tax money.
 
I'd like to know why they are spending money to remove perfectly good vending machines. I'd have thought those would make the whole operation more efficient since it's just another avenue for buying stamps. As it is, I want MORE of those automated centers.

It's weird. Whenever I watch Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares, the problem is that there are no customers. But with the USPS, they have long lines all the time and yet still post huge losses. Maybe no one knows how to make a fuckin' risotto.
 
Yeah i miss those vending machines, was a lot easier to buy stamps from them. The USPS has just fallen behind the times, having more automation could help them cut costs, but the one machine at my local office always has a line, just like the counter.
 
I suspect the removal of the machines has something to do with theft. You can still print postage at the apc machines but in that case the postage doesnt exist until it is paid for.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I may be wrong, the USPS may have gotten help from the government recently, but i'm pretty sure that the USPS is self funded usually. Meaning that although they are a government agency, they aren't funded by tax money.[/QUOTE]

Net+Income+Gap-crop.jpg
 
I don't mean to sound like Hank Hill, but I have nothing but good things to say about USPS. They've never lost a package on me, I have only had one magazine arrive damaged and late. Maybe they should just raise the stamp rate to 50 cents, it's easier to calculate costs that way.

I think they charge a very reasonable rate, and like many have said, they deliver to places private companies wouldn't even acknowledge.
 
[quote name='SpazX']To be honest, that doesn't seem too bad...looks like they were even profitable in 2006.[/QUOTE]

Remember, we're talking about $238 billion over the next 10 years. To help you understand how huge that number is, maybe try this chart:

budgetbreakdown.png
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I suspect the removal of the machines has something to do with theft. You can still print postage at the apc machines but in that case the postage doesnt exist until it is paid for.[/QUOTE]

Makes sense.

[quote name='willardhaven']I don't mean to sound like Hank Hill, but I have nothing but good things to say about USPS. They've never lost a package on me, I have only had one magazine arrive damaged and late. Maybe they should just raise the stamp rate to 50 cents, it's easier to calculate costs that way.

I think they charge a very reasonable rate, and like many have said, they deliver to places private companies wouldn't even acknowledge.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I don't get the hate for the USPS. I know they have their issues, but I can send stuff all over the country for generally good prices and be reasonably assured it'll get their expediently. It could be better, but everything and anything could always be better. I'd wager to say that as a whole, the USPS has a greater and more stable rate of satisfaction than most other companies.

But whatever. Hope they can cut their costs somehow and keep going.
 
Ah graphs, for when you can't find any written proof, use a graph. I can't find much info, but wikipedia at least says the USPS hasn't directly received taxpayer funds since the 80s.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Remember, we're talking about $238 billion over the next 10 years. To help you understand how huge that number is, maybe try this chart:[/QUOTE]

But that $238 billion doesn't seem to jive with the previous line graph. If that's the whole disparity between revenues and costs, even if you added in the $3.5 they're assuming will be cut, add another $1 to each year through 2014 and assume $7 for each year from 2014 to 2020 that would only put it in the $80 billion range over 10 years (2010-2020).

EDIT:

It also appears that it was making money before 2006, I don't know how long before - just glancing through the info they have posted on the website:

2003 - $3.9 billion net income
2004 - $3.06 billion net income
2005 - $1.4 billion net income
 
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I remember when I was a kid for years it was .25 to mail a letter, but in the past 10 years so, it's been going up constantly.

Sure, there's less people mailing letters because of email, but I would think people are spending more to mail packages for ebay.
 
raise the price, I would have thought they would yearly... not wait for these huge gaps.

I think more people wouldn't mind paying .01 extra a year vs waiting and having it jump .09.

Considering the work, paying for 1 stamp to send any document in any state is pretty cheap and amazing.

I say they jump to .60 and get more effiecent with their profits.
 
I would not mind paying 60 cents to mail a letter. It's a small cost to me. But I imagine it'd screw with a lot of businesses. But gas used to cost a lot less. Deal with it?
 
[quote name='SpazX']But that $238 billion doesn't seem to jive with the previous line graph. If that's the whole disparity between revenues and costs, even if you added in the $3.5 they're assuming will be cut, add another $1 to each year through 2014 and assume $7 for each year from 2014 to 2020 that would only put it in the $80 billion range over 10 years (2010-2020).

EDIT:

It also appears that it was making money before 2006, I don't know how long before - just glancing through the info they have posted on the website:

2003 - $3.9 billion net income
2004 - $3.06 billion net income
2005 - $1.4 billion net income[/QUOTE]

That previous graph was assuming they made recommended cuts of $1+ billion per year. Here's a link to the $238 billion number:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/us/05brfs-REPORTURGESC_BRF.html

Of course, this is just one of a million articles reporting the same number.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Ah graphs, for when you can't find any written proof, use a graph. I can't find much info, but wikipedia at least says the USPS hasn't directly received taxpayer funds since the 80s.[/QUOTE]

Spreadsheets and PDFs are difficult to fit into a forum post. USPS is on track to lose $238 billion of our money over 10 years if things aren't changed. We need to make big changes. End of story.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']That previous graph was assuming they made recommended cuts of $1+ billion per year. Here's a link to the $238 billion number:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/us/05brfs-REPORTURGESC_BRF.html

Of course, this is just one of a million articles reporting the same number.[/QUOTE]

I see the number, but I don't know where it comes from. And I added back in what the graph said they were assuming would be cut just to get to $80 billion. So if the $238 billion figure is right it has to be counting something else (and a lot of something else). To get the numbers up to $238 billion the projections would have to skyrocket after 2014 if that first graph is accurate (and complete).
 
It's no wonder that USPS is going down. With more and more people declining the use of snail mail compared to electronic mail could be a reason. I know nobody uses the USPS for anything except to receive junk mail, Gamefly and the occasional holiday card.

Plus factor in the whole gas prices rise in the last decade which i would assume make a major impact towards cost.

I always wondered though. How much "extra" costs woudl be elliminated if USPS didn't have to transport all that junk mail we receive?
 
[quote name='ppself']It's no wonder that USPS is going down. With more and more people declining the use of snail mail compared to electronic mail could be a reason. I know nobody uses the USPS for anything except to receive junk mail, Gamefly and the occasional holiday card.

Plus factor in the whole gas prices rise in the last decade which i would assume make a major impact towards cost.

I always wondered though. How much "extra" costs woudl be elliminated if USPS didn't have to transport all that junk mail we receive?[/QUOTE]

I wonder that too, especially since bulk mailers (aka junk mailers) get a discount. I get junk mail every day and it goes straight to the trash...what a waste of time, resources and money.
 
The fellow in charge, Potter isn't doing a terrible job.
The problems are- less people mail items, volume has been shrinking from 200+ billion parcels a few years ago down to 175 billion.
With such a huge expanse of land to cover, post offices serve an average number of 600 patrons. Saturday service is the same price as any other day.
They have shed workers, going down from 800,000 to 600 and there are plans to make more part time.
The major problem is paying retiree benefits, and more specifically, having to prepay those expected medical benefits- to the tune of 5.5-5.9 billion depending on estimates.
The USPS also issued a report that the current pension funding has overpayed a whopping 75 billion in benefits
http://www.uspsoig.gov/stories/CSRS--Full web story.pdf
 
I'd say, like most thing, it's variable. There was a lady at the post office I used to go to that was great, and another who was not very customer friendly. But the post office is massive and a lot of people go there, so I'm not sure if the complaints are really high as a percentage or just volume (would have to look, if they have data on that). It's also a cliche that probably magnifies the problem and primes people to behave in certain ways, but that's another thing altogether.

But to combat that I guess they could use some kind of incentive, though that would cost more money, at least initially. It might pay off, I dunno, I don't plan these things...
 
It isn't just them being nicer, it's just an easier experience. I usually spend less than 5 minutes shipping with UPS, i've stood in line at the USPS for 15 minutes before even getting to the counter
 
Well yeah, but the few times I've gone in the UPS Store (only to drop shit off prepaid) there was like nobody in there. I think part of the problem with the post office is the number of people who use it. To make the lines faster would require more employees or more post offices, which would only make their costs higher unless a significantly higher number of people started going to offset it. But the thing is that they're cheaper by far than UPS or Fedex for small stuff, so pretty much everybody goes there already.

I think they could cover a lot of their deficit by raising prices on stamps a tiny amount (like to 60 cents or something) and it'll still be the cheapest option. The problem with that is people already bitch about the costs of stamps going up when they've basically only increased for inflation. They could also raise prices on bulk mailers, which wouldn't have the same public repercussions, but I don't think what the businesses who use it would do. They could also zone the
 
Yeah, the experience sucks. Around here the lines are 15-30 minutes to get to the counter. And I've tried various times and days of the week.

The staff is usually friendly, but sometimes not. But a lot of that is from having grumpy customers as they have 4 or 5 registers and usually only one open when I've had to go.

The easy solution, as others have noticed, is more of the automated mailing machines. There's only one (if even one) at most post offices, and the line for it sucks.

That and have a specific line for picking up mail--only time I go is when I have a package that wouldn't fit in the mail box in my condo complex. And it sucks to wait 15+ minutes just to give a package. I try not to order form places that use USPS now, since UPS and Fedex will just leave packages on my doorstep.
 
USPS at my building (like UPS and Fedex) just drops stuff at the apartment door (if they don't knock and hand it to me), so I'm glad I don't have that problem.
 
[quote name='SpazX']USPS at my building (like UPS and Fedex) just drops stuff at the apartment door (if they don't knock and hand it to me), so I'm glad I don't have that problem.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the way it was where I've lived before.

Here we just have a cluster of mailboxes in the center of the complex (PO Box style). There's 6 or so larger boxes for packages--you get a key to them in your mailbox if they put a package in there for you--but those are still pretty small. Around shoe box size or so.

Anything that doesn't fit there, you have to go pick up as they don't go around door to door at all. But to be fair, it's a big garden style condo complex with a ton of three story buildings, so it would be uber-inefficient to go door to door.

I can send stuff to work--but I have to know the shipping method ahead of time as my office has a PO Box address for USPS, and street address for UPS/Fed Ex. So it's a problem with places like Amazon where you have no idea what method they'll use etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's the way it was where I've lived before.

Here we just have a cluster of mailboxes in the center of the complex (PO Box style). There's 6 or so larger boxes for packages--you get a key to them in your mailbox if they put a package in there for you--but those are still pretty small. Around shoe box size or so.

Anything that doesn't fit there, you have to go pick up as they don't go around door to door at all. But to be fair, it's a big garden style condo complex with a ton of three story buildings, so it would be uber-inefficient to go door to door.

I can send stuff to work--but I have to know the shipping method ahead of time as my office has a PO Box address for USPS, and street address for UPS/Fed Ex. So it's a problem with places like Amazon where you have no idea what method they'll use etc.[/QUOTE]

At my apartment the boxes are at each little area so there are 8 mailboxes together right at the 8 apartments that they go to. Not much of a trip to the door. My brother lives in an apartment complex with a huge bunch of all the mailboxes together at the entrance, but I think they leave packages in the main office for the complex, which is over near there, so it kinda sucks, but not nearly as bad as if he had to go to the post office.
 
Yep, I lived in an apartment complex like your brothers and had the same deal.

But this is a condo complex, so there's no leasing office etc. I'll probably be moving to a high rise condo with 24 hour front desk concierge over the summer, so it won't be an issue anymore as they take the packages.
 
[quote name='davo1224']I saw on the news this morning about them closing post offices, cutting jobs, etc. because they're not doing well.

My question is how? I have to believe this is a lie just so they can use this tough time for everyone as a cover to squeeze more money out of people. Unless you have a great deal with UPS/FedEx, the USPS is pretty much a monopoly in the entire country to the point of where people think it's an actual government institution. How can you be doing badly when you're the only game in town more or less?[/QUOTE]


People are probablly using them less and less because of lack of money in our society. Less money you take in the more you have to charge, the more you charge in a economic crunch the less people spend with you. It really is that simple.

I dont know about other areas but we have alot of shipping options. We have DHL, fed ex, the post office, ups and quite a few local companies that will deliver within like a 50 mile radius.

Fedex has to cost billions a year just to run though in america alone. Have to pay for trucks, employees, shitloads of insurance for their people and equipment, they have fleets of cargo planes, all that fancy equipment and so on. Has to cost a fortune just for daily upkeep on stuff. It wouldnt take alot for them get into the red, a bad month or two would put the hurt on them, atleast I would think so.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']I wonder that too, especially since bulk mailers (aka junk mailers) get a discount. I get junk mail every day and it goes straight to the trash...what a waste of time, resources and money.[/QUOTE]

It's worse in Canada, where all that junk mail goes straight to the recycle bin, where taxpayers have to cover the cost.

Someone actually put a recycle box directly next to my neighborhood's mail box and you could see that pretty much everyone dumped all the junk mail directly into it.
 
So they are moving forward with trying to eliminate Saturday delivery. It's in the proposal stages, at least.

Things to note:
I'd say trash a lot of the junk mail, or charge people for sending it. I don't need catalogs no mores, and the credit card companies annoy the hell out of me. Stopping that mess seems like that could be a step in the right direction.
 
[quote name='Strell']I'd say trash a lot of the junk mail, or charge people for sending it. I don't need catalogs no mores, and the credit card companies annoy the hell out of me. Stopping that mess seems like that could be a step in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

They are charged a bulk rate, but they are charged.
 
Yeah, I'd think the junk mail was one of their largest (if not largest) income streams--especially with the decline in personal letters, online bill payment etc.

I hate getting it as it just fills up the recycling bin, but if they stopped taking that they'd probably be in worse straits as they'd still have the same routes to cover. Maybe they could cut some carriers due to reduced volume making them able to cover more ground in their shift, but probably not near enough to offset losing the bulk mail revenue.
 
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I'll definitely be sad if they cut saturday delivery. I've always looked forward to getting nice weekend surprises.

But I'd probably rather they do that than jack up the prices too much.
 
I wouldn't mind cutting Saturday delivery. Though I'd say another day of the week would be preferable. But I guess that's not feasible since the business world is on a Monday-Friday work week.

But honestly, all I'd care is I sometimes get a Netflix disc or an order from Amazon on Saturday which is nice on the weekend, where I wouldn't miss it in the middle of the week when I usually don't have time for it anyway.

But no big deal, and like SpazX I'd take that over jacking up prices too much.
 
Millions of overpaid over-benefited workers. All government agencies lose money as they do not produce anything, they only take.

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!!!
 
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