Obama Care Could Be Deadly
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It doesn't matter tivo, if they disagree with a point of view, they believe they don't have to offer a legitimate argument against the person's points, they only have to diminish the persons credibility by saying "his opinion isn't qualified", or "he is bias" therefore those opinions don't count. Only the bias unqualified opinions that agree with them count, such as think progress articles. 
Now they will say "Well we don't want to repeat ourselves" to which I ask: Why are you still posting if you do not want to discuss?
depascal22
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[quote name='tivo']Why? because he examines the issue with reason and without emotion (cough* Smut's articles*).
Read it. http://healthblog.ncpa.org/stupid-about-prices/
He points out very clearly that: Prices are somewhat arbitrary and difficult to compare with overseas markets and, even given the desire to push prices down, the government or healthcare providers will just shift the cost to other people or areas. So in essence, the price won't be changed at all, only the nominal price recorded. The solution to actually lower prices (for everyone, not just shift them) is therefore not a single payer system, but more competition and markets. That's how cosmetic surgery, Lasik surgery, walk-in clinics, surgi-centers, concierge doctors, medical tourism, etc. have actually lowered their prices and/or improved quality. >> Competition induced innovation.
How can you argue with that? I guess the only thing yall can do is just say "John Goodman is the last person you want health advice from."[/QUOTE]
How about "rich white Christians" are the last people we want to take health advice from? That should get your panties in a bunch.
As for your free market crap about health care.
Surgi-centers are the most dangerous place to have surgery. You might be recovering from surgery and realize there's no anesthesiologist or doctor present because all the cases are done. There have been many instances of post-op cases being rushed to a real hospital because of complications. So much for your big savings.
Medical tourism is inherently unsafe as well. Yes, you might have gotten your implants for $500 but you have little to no recourse if you find out the doctor re-used old implants or used something other than saline or silicone. Not a biggie I guess when money is the only thing that matters.
And do you really want to go the cheapest place for Lasik? It's an elective surgery on your eyes for Christ sakes.
Ah,
it. Rich white Christian men are ruining this country. Better?
I work in the healthcare field and watch people die all the time because they didn't come in before their insides were literally bursting from cancer but let's listen toing John Goodman. Really? tivo, you're mentally disabled in the worst way. Ignorance.
Read it. http://healthblog.ncpa.org/stupid-about-prices/
He points out very clearly that: Prices are somewhat arbitrary and difficult to compare with overseas markets and, even given the desire to push prices down, the government or healthcare providers will just shift the cost to other people or areas. So in essence, the price won't be changed at all, only the nominal price recorded. The solution to actually lower prices (for everyone, not just shift them) is therefore not a single payer system, but more competition and markets. That's how cosmetic surgery, Lasik surgery, walk-in clinics, surgi-centers, concierge doctors, medical tourism, etc. have actually lowered their prices and/or improved quality. >> Competition induced innovation.
How can you argue with that? I guess the only thing yall can do is just say "John Goodman is the last person you want health advice from."[/QUOTE]
How about "rich white Christians" are the last people we want to take health advice from? That should get your panties in a bunch.
As for your free market crap about health care.
Surgi-centers are the most dangerous place to have surgery. You might be recovering from surgery and realize there's no anesthesiologist or doctor present because all the cases are done. There have been many instances of post-op cases being rushed to a real hospital because of complications. So much for your big savings.
Medical tourism is inherently unsafe as well. Yes, you might have gotten your implants for $500 but you have little to no recourse if you find out the doctor re-used old implants or used something other than saline or silicone. Not a biggie I guess when money is the only thing that matters.
And do you really want to go the cheapest place for Lasik? It's an elective surgery on your eyes for Christ sakes.
Ah,
it. Rich white Christian men are ruining this country. Better? I work in the healthcare field and watch people die all the time because they didn't come in before their insides were literally bursting from cancer but let's listen to
ing John Goodman. Really? tivo, you're mentally disabled in the worst way. Ignorance.
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tivo
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[quote name='depascal22']How about "rich white Christians" are the last people we want to take health advice from? That should get your panties in a bunch.
[/quote]
I wanted to copy and past John Goodman's credentials but they would be too many to list. But you can look for yourself. He has done more in his life than you + your family will ever contribute to society.
ING THING THEY DO. From food to clothing to housing to everything they buy. But, Lasik practices and techniques and prices have improved over the years and thats with a free market and practically zero insurance company or government intervention.
anyway, ive spent to much time responding to you, one of the seemingly least educated and intelligent people here. The following is why doctors (and therefore quality by extension) will suffer under a single payer system:
Intervening into the price system would shift the price burden from the consumer onto some other group, most likely those in the healthcare industry (e.g. wage reductions for Doctors). Why Doctors?.... I think the first thing that would be done in a single payer system would be a creation of a price ceiling for services. That is because the consumer would be out of the equation and would not care about price, and the service providers wouldn't need to compete with lower prices so therefore, another system like a price ceiling would be necessary to attempt to economize the situation. That price ceiling would then force Hospitals/Doctors to offer a service slightly above their costs, below their costs or not offer it. With slightly above their costs, there would be little room for high salary professionals, forcing out the highest paid (and usually but not always) the most qualified doctors and future doctors into other fields outside medicine. If the price ceiling were at or below their costs, they would offer limited services or none at all. (As proven by Medicaid where many healthcare providers will not accept Medicaid supported citizens because Medicaid will not pay for the full costs of the service). The government could create a price ceiling well above the cost for the services and then subsidize the prices down by taxes/relocation of tax funds. However, there will be no system to economize services and this will not reduce costs in the long run and therefore should not be a permanent solution. Innovation will only reduce costs and the best way to breed innovation is with the potential of profits or necessity by competition. Great examples of this, as pointed out by Goodman, are lasik eye surgery and cosmetic surgery. In both of these cases, insurance companies do not take part and it is up to the individual consumer to purchase these procedures based on quality and price. As a result, these specific industries have seen marked improvements in quality, practice, and prices.
[/quote]
I wanted to copy and past John Goodman's credentials but they would be too many to list. But you can look for yourself. He has done more in his life than you + your family will ever contribute to society.
I think you watch too much Dateline NBC. More than 22 million surgeries a year are performed in more than 5,000 ASCs with very rare occurrence of complications. However, they are required to have a back up plan for transfer to a hospital if the need arises. So, your wrong. They save money.
What's "inherently" unsafe about medical tourism to the US? You made a farcical statement sound even dumber by misusing "inherently" and by throwing in some black market surgery fantasy. Check it, all breast implants are not covered by insurance. Therefore it up to the individual to pick price/quality. As a result, both prices and quality have steadily improved and that's why some many women are walking around with fake tits. 1) its not that expensive and 2) its not that bad of a procedure. You can't imagine something and list it as a reason to discredit an entire industry of proof.
I don't want to go to the cheapest place for Lasik you idiot. First off, long term studies haven't been performed on Lasik so I wouldn't recommend it now, but if someone did elect it, they would balance quality and price just like they do with EVERY
ING THING THEY DO. From food to clothing to housing to everything they buy. But, Lasik practices and techniques and prices have improved over the years and thats with a free market and practically zero insurance company or government intervention. You cannot save everyone. Even early detection of cancer and immediate removal does not guarantee anything. And you can spend billions of dollars but people will die. you should be resistant to all that emotional crap by now. (but you said "healthcare field" so I assume you're probably new to it, playing some minor role without any authority adjunct to anything worth wild)I work in the healthcare field and watch people die all the time because they didn't come in before their insides were literally bursting from cancer but let's listen to
anyway, ive spent to much time responding to you, one of the seemingly least educated and intelligent people here. The following is why doctors (and therefore quality by extension) will suffer under a single payer system:
Intervening into the price system would shift the price burden from the consumer onto some other group, most likely those in the healthcare industry (e.g. wage reductions for Doctors). Why Doctors?.... I think the first thing that would be done in a single payer system would be a creation of a price ceiling for services. That is because the consumer would be out of the equation and would not care about price, and the service providers wouldn't need to compete with lower prices so therefore, another system like a price ceiling would be necessary to attempt to economize the situation. That price ceiling would then force Hospitals/Doctors to offer a service slightly above their costs, below their costs or not offer it. With slightly above their costs, there would be little room for high salary professionals, forcing out the highest paid (and usually but not always) the most qualified doctors and future doctors into other fields outside medicine. If the price ceiling were at or below their costs, they would offer limited services or none at all. (As proven by Medicaid where many healthcare providers will not accept Medicaid supported citizens because Medicaid will not pay for the full costs of the service). The government could create a price ceiling well above the cost for the services and then subsidize the prices down by taxes/relocation of tax funds. However, there will be no system to economize services and this will not reduce costs in the long run and therefore should not be a permanent solution. Innovation will only reduce costs and the best way to breed innovation is with the potential of profits or necessity by competition. Great examples of this, as pointed out by Goodman, are lasik eye surgery and cosmetic surgery. In both of these cases, insurance companies do not take part and it is up to the individual consumer to purchase these procedures based on quality and price. As a result, these specific industries have seen marked improvements in quality, practice, and prices.
[quote name='depascal22']How about "rich white Christians" are the last people we want to take health advice from? [/quote]
This John Goodman apparently has a PhD in Economics, but he makes his living selling free market kool aid and pushing snake oil HSA's.
Seems to have never read Kenneth Arrow or just ignores everything he can't make a dime off of.
This John Goodman apparently has a PhD in Economics, but he makes his living selling free market kool aid and pushing snake oil HSA's.
Seems to have never read Kenneth Arrow or just ignores everything he can't make a dime off of.
depascal22
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So tivo, you're saying we should just go back to cash payments or bartering for health care? Free market right?
And I never watch Dateline NBC, just speaking from experience.
And please don't lecture me about education and intelligence. I come to the vs. forum on a cheap video game site to bullshit about politics and throw out fringe radical ideas. Guess it makes me a moron to switch things up and stir the pot. It's much better to drone on about free market principles enhancing innovation, right?
And I never watch Dateline NBC, just speaking from experience.
And please don't lecture me about education and intelligence. I come to the vs. forum on a cheap video game site to bullshit about politics and throw out fringe radical ideas. Guess it makes me a moron to switch things up and stir the pot. It's much better to drone on about free market principles enhancing innovation, right?
[quote name='depascal22']And please don't lecture me about education and intelligence. I come to the vs. forum on a cheap video game site to bullshit about politics and throw out fringe radical ideas. Guess it makes me a moron to switch things up and stir the pot. It's much better to drone on about free market principles enhancing innovation, right?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I wouldn't really take such a jibe seriously from a guy who ignores Joseph Stiglitz (has a Nobel prize and former chief economist of the World Bank) in favor of Thomas Friedman (has a mustache).
Yeah, I wouldn't really take such a jibe seriously from a guy who ignores Joseph Stiglitz (has a Nobel prize and former chief economist of the World Bank) in favor of Thomas Friedman (has a mustache).
tivo
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[quote name='depascal22']So tivo, you're saying we should just go back to cash payments or bartering for health care? Free market right?[/quote] Most people have to pay for their healthcare (i.e. deductible and monthly insurance coverage) but they frequently don;t get the same freedom in purchasing their health care as in other consumer areas. I just want people to have incentives and abilities to direct their own healthcare. People don't care when its not their money. This all comes back to my sig which I've had for months if not years.
tivo
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[quote name='Msut77']Yeah, I wouldn't really take such a jibe seriously from a guy who ignores Joseph Stiglitz (has a Nobel prize and former chief economist of the World Bank) in favor of Thomas Friedman (has a mustache).[/QUOTE]
You have confused Friedmans. You mean to compare Joseph Stiglitz (Keynesian economist) to Milton Friedman (Monetarist) instead of Thomas Friedman (globalization guy). Again, you've brought this pseudo insult about Thomas Friedman up before without ever getting into it. If you want to discuss Keynes vs. Monetarist economics then go to that thread (you don;t know shit about it so you never post). If you want to talk about globalization views, create a thread and I'll be there. Otherwise, mentioning Stiglitz has NOTHING to do with this thread (Obamacare) and it makes you sound oblivious to discussion. Also, comparing Stiglitz to Thomas Friedman is just asinine as they concentrate on different stuff.
Again, you rarely, if ever, provide any useful comments or reasonable discourse. Its really getting old.
P.S. any single payer proponents have anything to say to this.....
How A Single-Payer System would more than likely Hurt Doctors and Health Care Quality by Extension:
You have confused Friedmans. You mean to compare Joseph Stiglitz (Keynesian economist) to Milton Friedman (Monetarist) instead of Thomas Friedman (globalization guy). Again, you've brought this pseudo insult about Thomas Friedman up before without ever getting into it. If you want to discuss Keynes vs. Monetarist economics then go to that thread (you don;t know shit about it so you never post). If you want to talk about globalization views, create a thread and I'll be there. Otherwise, mentioning Stiglitz has NOTHING to do with this thread (Obamacare) and it makes you sound oblivious to discussion. Also, comparing Stiglitz to Thomas Friedman is just asinine as they concentrate on different stuff.
Again, you rarely, if ever, provide any useful comments or reasonable discourse. Its really getting old.
P.S. any single payer proponents have anything to say to this.....
How A Single-Payer System would more than likely Hurt Doctors and Health Care Quality by Extension:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/149094
"This all got me thinking. I hold the paleoconservative/libertarian position on healthcare and still have, however, this got me thinking that no wonder the other side fights so fervently about this. There are people such as myself that simply cannot live. You are attacking their existence."
"This all got me thinking. I hold the paleoconservative/libertarian position on healthcare and still have, however, this got me thinking that no wonder the other side fights so fervently about this. There are people such as myself that simply cannot live. You are attacking their existence."
All the responses about seeking homeopathic medicine are hilarious. Coming from people who absolutely distrust science it isn't surprising, but rather than discuss the problem, a lack of health insurance, they just ignore it. "Yeah I saw went to this guy and he fixed me." It's like supplemental vitamins (which haven't been shown to be beneficial)and folk cures are better than conventional medicine. Which is ing hilarious considering Paul is a medical doctor.
ing hilarious considering Paul is a medical doctor.
mykevermin
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I coulda told you they would be drawn to snake oil sold by charisma...
[quote name='Clak']All the responses about seeking homeopathic medicine are hilarious. Coming from people who absolutely distrust science it isn't surprising, but rather than discuss the problem, a lack of health insurance, they just ignore it. "Yeah I saw went to this guy and he fixed me." It's like supplemental vitamins (which haven't been shown to be beneficial)and folk cures are better than conventional medicine. Which is ing hilarious considering Paul is a medical doctor.[/QUOTE]
This:
Bunny did you know
Submitted by lancealotlink on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 06:19.
They are making bullet proof vest out of spiders cobwebs that are being made inside of a goat's stomach. This is not science fiction folks, this is real. That's because the lining of the goat's stomach is so strong it can actually stop bullets.
ing hilarious considering Paul is a medical doctor.[/QUOTE]This:
Bunny did you know
Submitted by lancealotlink on Sat, 11/13/2010 - 06:19.
They are making bullet proof vest out of spiders cobwebs that are being made inside of a goat's stomach. This is not science fiction folks, this is real. That's because the lining of the goat's stomach is so strong it can actually stop bullets.
iKilledChewbacca
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politics are stupid.
BWS1982
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I didn't even realize CAG had an area for this.
I usually find it offensive and depressing to see the deficient attempts by people not intimately and fatally familiar with healthcare to say anything against fixing it. Has anyone had fall-to-your-knees-with-tears-in-your-eyes medical disasters? I have an incurable, crippling disease and have spent thousands a year on futile medical endeavors, only to be told by "one anonymous political party": tough sh**. It's more than broken, and not a bit surprising that people like me (an educated, working citizen, before your knees jerk, conservatives)-- in droves-- support fixing the atrocity that is basically profit-driven-selective-suicides. How could anyone want to revive pre-existing conditions? The thought of such a mentality makes me sick.
The insurance companies have proven that they deny people based on denial thresholds and incompetent "substitute doctors" who wield rubber stamps...people's lives are not f*****g business decisions. The government is the only entity powerful enough to take them on and rebuild this catastrophic pile of rubble that lags far behind Europe (talk to them), and at least we can vote them in and out of office. Really, profit-driven healthcare "gatekeepers" just don't work (well, it works for those raking in profits). People are investments, did you hear? It's no wonder the rest of the world (again, talk to them) is perplexed by our silly debate over it while they retain the statistical/poll-driven mantels of "happier nations". They feel sorry for us. I lost faith in America on November 2nd. I guess "leave no man behind" is just a catchy phrase from a Ridley Scott movie...
I won't be back to see any replies to this. I've been over it ad nauseam, I've heard it all, too often it's copy and paste rhetoric (sometimes with Obama racism and death threats), canned catch-phrases, and often simply vile neglect for another life. If you reply with something else, thanks in advance for breaking the stereotype.
I usually find it offensive and depressing to see the deficient attempts by people not intimately and fatally familiar with healthcare to say anything against fixing it. Has anyone had fall-to-your-knees-with-tears-in-your-eyes medical disasters? I have an incurable, crippling disease and have spent thousands a year on futile medical endeavors, only to be told by "one anonymous political party": tough sh**. It's more than broken, and not a bit surprising that people like me (an educated, working citizen, before your knees jerk, conservatives)-- in droves-- support fixing the atrocity that is basically profit-driven-selective-suicides. How could anyone want to revive pre-existing conditions? The thought of such a mentality makes me sick.
The insurance companies have proven that they deny people based on denial thresholds and incompetent "substitute doctors" who wield rubber stamps...people's lives are not f*****g business decisions. The government is the only entity powerful enough to take them on and rebuild this catastrophic pile of rubble that lags far behind Europe (talk to them), and at least we can vote them in and out of office. Really, profit-driven healthcare "gatekeepers" just don't work (well, it works for those raking in profits). People are investments, did you hear? It's no wonder the rest of the world (again, talk to them) is perplexed by our silly debate over it while they retain the statistical/poll-driven mantels of "happier nations". They feel sorry for us. I lost faith in America on November 2nd. I guess "leave no man behind" is just a catchy phrase from a Ridley Scott movie...
I won't be back to see any replies to this. I've been over it ad nauseam, I've heard it all, too often it's copy and paste rhetoric (sometimes with Obama racism and death threats), canned catch-phrases, and often simply vile neglect for another life. If you reply with something else, thanks in advance for breaking the stereotype.
depascal22
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Nice post, BWS. It looks like you're a conservative that doesn't get on his knees when someone says free market.
speedracer
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Oh, and he ran on repealing health care reform.
speedracer
Banned
[quote name='UncleBob']The point being that someone has questions about their employer-provided health care?[/QUOTE]
Who doesn't know there's a waiting period for health care?
Who doesn't know there's a waiting period for health care?
The point is that gummint can't do anything right and they're the problem not the solution.
Of course they're kind of awesome when they subsidize health care for congressman. When does that cool shit kick in brah? But as everyone knows, it's tyrannical socialism when the gummint does it for ordinary non-gov't employees.
Like I said in the 'classy' thread, the guy should apply for COBRA. He can thank that socialist communist Reagan for that shit.
Of course they're kind of awesome when they subsidize health care for congressman. When does that cool shit kick in brah? But as everyone knows, it's tyrannical socialism when the gummint does it for ordinary non-gov't employees.
Like I said in the 'classy' thread, the guy should apply for COBRA. He can thank that socialist communist Reagan for that shit.
If you're honestly trying to present this is as a case of "keep government out of my medicare", then you're intentionally misrepresenting the situation.
*yes*, it is "The Government" providing the health care plan for the congressman - but not in the role of the government - it's in the role of the employer. Anyone who wants the same health care plan as this congressman, provided by the government, is free to apply for his position.
*yes*, it is "The Government" providing the health care plan for the congressman - but not in the role of the government - it's in the role of the employer. Anyone who wants the same health care plan as this congressman, provided by the government, is free to apply for his position.
thrustbucket
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[quote name='Don Chubo']We all know it sucks, I'm just hoping I can get a waiver like some companies and unions are getting. Only fair, right?[/QUOTE]
In the new progressive America, it's not about what's fair, it's about what's ultimately best for the collective.
In the new progressive America, it's not about what's fair, it's about what's ultimately best for the collective.
perdition(troy
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[quote name='Clak']I'm just going to keep posting this until he gets it.[/QUOTE]
You obviously don't get it.
You obviously don't get it.
depascal22
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[quote name='RAMSTORIA']thanks thrust, you gave me an idea to whip something up on photoshop after work.[/QUOTE]
I have a feeling the Borg will be the main theme...
I have a feeling the Borg will be the main theme...
[quote name='UncleBob']Anyone who wants the same health care plan as this congressman, provided by the government, is free to apply for his position.[/QUOTE]
Or if you merely want access to similar healthcare, you could wait for Obamacare to kick in, right?
This guy objects to Obamacare. Obamacare is the gov't paying private insurers to cover you. Federal employees is the gov't paying private insurers to cover them.
Or if you merely want access to similar healthcare, you could wait for Obamacare to kick in, right?
This guy objects to Obamacare. Obamacare is the gov't paying private insurers to cover you. Federal employees is the gov't paying private insurers to cover them.
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/20...e_industry_attacked_michael_moores_film_sicko
The whole thing is pretty good but this:
WENDELL POTTER: Isn’t that supremely ironic? And he had been campaigning against an incumbent, a Democrat, who was—and he was accusing him of being in favor of Obamacare. And he, this guy who was elected who you just spoke about, has pledged to repeal the legislation. Yeah, he is finally, I guess, for 28 days, possibly going to be in the same predicament that many Americans are in for months, if not years. And he was saying, essentially, "Where’s my government-run healthcare?"
Just this.
The whole thing is pretty good but this:
WENDELL POTTER: Isn’t that supremely ironic? And he had been campaigning against an incumbent, a Democrat, who was—and he was accusing him of being in favor of Obamacare. And he, this guy who was elected who you just spoke about, has pledged to repeal the legislation. Yeah, he is finally, I guess, for 28 days, possibly going to be in the same predicament that many Americans are in for months, if not years. And he was saying, essentially, "Where’s my government-run healthcare?"
Just this.
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[quote name='IRHari']Or if you merely want access to similar healthcare, you could wait for Obamacare to kick in, right?
This guy objects to Obamacare. Obamacare is the gov't paying private insurers to cover you. Federal employees is the gov't paying private insurers to cover them.[/QUOTE]
Government employees have access to government provided health care because they work for the government. Now, we can debate the amount of work that a congressman actually accomplishes - but that's another debate all together.
The general citizenry doesn't work for the government. Anyone who wants to work for the government is free to apply. Armed forces, perhaps? City council?
You can intentionally misrepresent this situation all you want - and you know full well that's what you're doing.
This guy objects to Obamacare. Obamacare is the gov't paying private insurers to cover you. Federal employees is the gov't paying private insurers to cover them.[/QUOTE]
Government employees have access to government provided health care because they work for the government. Now, we can debate the amount of work that a congressman actually accomplishes - but that's another debate all together.
The general citizenry doesn't work for the government. Anyone who wants to work for the government is free to apply. Armed forces, perhaps? City council?
You can intentionally misrepresent this situation all you want - and you know full well that's what you're doing.
speedracer
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Must be nice.
thrustbucket
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Government jobs in general have better benefits than private sector jobs.
perdition(troy
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[quote name='speedracer']Must be nice.[/QUOTE]
I'm in the same boat as he is.
I'm in the same boat as he is.
[quote name='thrustbucket']Government jobs in general have better benefits than private sector jobs.[/QUOTE]
You don't see the problem with this? Seriously? That the people we elect, who essentially work for us, have better access to health care than plenty of the people they represent? Then complain about it when they have to do without it for a month?
Give me aing break. This guy has some serious nerve
You don't see the problem with this? Seriously? That the people we elect, who essentially work for us, have better access to health care than plenty of the people they represent? Then complain about it when they have to do without it for a month?
Give me a
ing break. This guy has some serious nerve
[quote name='thrustbucket']Government jobs in general have better benefits than private sector jobs.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but they also have less pay for their respective specialties. All government workers aren't pencil pushing clerks.
You also don't have the same kind of wage disparity that you see in a private company. The president takes home $400,000 and even if the lowest paid clerk is paid $20,000, we're talking a ratio of 20:1; whereas in a private large company, hell, or the upper end of "small" business for that matter, it wouldn't be unusual to see larger ratios than that.
Anywho, that guy is a POS.
Sure, but they also have less pay for their respective specialties. All government workers aren't pencil pushing clerks.
You also don't have the same kind of wage disparity that you see in a private company. The president takes home $400,000 and even if the lowest paid clerk is paid $20,000, we're talking a ratio of 20:1; whereas in a private large company, hell, or the upper end of "small" business for that matter, it wouldn't be unusual to see larger ratios than that.
Anywho, that guy is a POS.
[quote name='Clak']Well how about we represent it this way, the people we elect to represent us have better health care than many of us do.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should elect people who will change that?
Or maybe you should work to better your life so you have better heath coverage?
Maybe you should elect people who will change that?
Or maybe you should work to better your life so you have better heath coverage?
[quote name='Clak']There's a surprise, they played democrats like a fiddle, all the while funding the smear campaign against HCR.[/QUOTE]
Well you know when you don't have facts or reason on your side you got to resort to other measures.
See:
Every single conservative in this entire thread.
Well you know when you don't have facts or reason on your side you got to resort to other measures.
See:
Every single conservative in this entire thread.
[quote name='Clak']Better myself, like you? Yeah I sure hope I can work at Wal Mart some day.[/QUOTE]
There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "like me" anywhere. Funny, though - I suggest that if you want a better life for yourself that you should take action to make your life better and the first thing you do is deflect and attack...
...is your life better now?
There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "like me" anywhere. Funny, though - I suggest that if you want a better life for yourself that you should take action to make your life better and the first thing you do is deflect and attack...
...is your life better now?
bread's done