Obama's "bitter" remark

JolietJake

JolietJake

Banned
Anyone else following the shit thats be stirred up over the remark Obama made, about some people in the US being bitter? Clinton is playing it like it was an insult, which it wasn't. That isn't the way it was meant at all and it's obvious if you read the remark carefully. Plus, there are a lot of people who are bitter, over things like immigration especially. I don't see where he was off the mark, at least by much.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Anyone else following the shit thats be stirred up over the remark Obama made, about some people in the US being bitter? Clinton is playing it like it was an insult, which it wasn't. That isn't the way it was meant at all and it's obvious if you read the remark carefully. Plus, there are a lot of people who are bitter, over things like immigration especially. I don't see where he was off the mark, at least by much.[/QUOTE]

Hillary Clinton is like a drowning person clinging to anything they can to prevent from going under.
 
[quote name='JolietJake'] I don't see where he was off the mark, at least by much.[/QUOTE]

That's the problem thought. There is some truth to that statement, but it makes him come off as an Elitist.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']That's the problem thought. There is some truth to that statement, but it makes him come off as an Elitist.[/quote]
What Clinton is framing it as makes him sound like an elitist.
 
[quote name='"cnn"']"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he also said."[/quote]

Noting that they're bitter by itself certainly isn't noteworthy(I mean, come on. They lost their jobs! They're obviously going to be bitter about it). But assuming that he really did say this as well... This kind of sweeping generalization sounds pretty condescending to me.
 
Hillary: How dare he! He said you were BITTER! He's an elitist out of touch with Americans!

Americans: We ARE bitter. Thanks for finally listening to us now that your political opponent got to us first.

“You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught be how to shoot when I was a little girl,” she said.

AND THEN SNIPERS CAME OUT FROM EVERYWHERE, THE GROUND WAS AFLAME WITH SNIPER FIRE, AND MY FATHER RUSHED US OUT OF THE PLANE AND INTO OUR HOME!

Seriously though, who gives a shit? If I cared about who could throw the most drama into my life I'd stay at home everyday between 10am-1pm and watch the shitty acting and "who's banging who" storyline of soap operas.

Clinton's got her spokespeople making statements like "Superdelegates needs to evaluate these "bitter" remarks and think twice about who to support", like one little comment is going to overturn the millions of votes and stances on issues don't mean a damn thing in the election.

Get back to the issues kids, BOTH of you.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='looploop']Noting that they're bitter by itself certainly isn't noteworthy(I mean, come on. They lost their jobs! They're obviously going to be bitter about it). But assuming that he really did say this as well... This kind of sweeping generalization sounds pretty condescending to me.[/quote]Depends on where you live and what people you're around most. Here in the south, he pretty much hit it dead on. All i ever hear is "damn immigrants, damn foreigners taking our jobs, fucking moslims (yes they pronounce it with an O)." Sounds pretty bitter to me. I won't even go into the religion or gun part of his remark, those are both pretty much ingrained at birth around here. You'd think that Jesus was a gun toting member of the NRA.

I think he was trying to expose an ugly part of our society and instead Clinton is using it as political ammunition.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']i like how McCain calls him an elitist too, that fool owns 8 houses a real man of the people[/quote]

McCain has contact with hard-working Americans every day. They're his staff. Most of them are documented.
 
[quote name='cnn']"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he also said."[/quote]

Why did he mix guns in with those BS issues. Gun rights are serious business, any Dem that doesn't think so is going to take a beating in the polls.

As for bitter ppl clinging to religion... *cough*Wright*cough*
 
Clinton is a bitch. She lies to us and just "miss-spoke", but is trying to make it seem that he hates the middle and lower class.

And all Wright said was "God Damn America!", which frankly I agree with.
 
[quote name='camoor']Why did he mix guns in with those BS issues. Gun rights are serious business, any Dem that doesn't think so is going to take a beating in the polls.

As for bitter ppl clinging to religion... *cough*Wright*cough*[/quote]


cause its wedge issue that people cling to because its easier for politicians to focus on that than real issues that people need to be discussed. Like this bitter debate is taking away from Iraq, the Economy, Education, Health Care, Etc.
 
[quote name='camoor']Why did he mix guns in with those BS issues. Gun rights are serious business, any Dem that doesn't think so is going to take a beating in the polls.

As for bitter ppl clinging to religion... *cough*Wright*cough*[/quote]I still say it's a non issue, but i'm not going to get into that in this thread.
 
Clinton(s) are pandering liars, and always have been. They will say whatever is popular at the time. I have been convinced for years that the Clinton's seriously have no idea what they really do believe or want, because their belief system is now rooted on polls.

Obama's statement was very poorly chosen. But he, and especially his wife, continue to make eyebrow raising statements like this that seem to be slowly pulling down the curtain to reveal what they really think about this country and just what flavor of "change" they want.

Just more of the same from both, ultimately just causing more depression about how seriously poor our choices are this election.
 
Why is it that salaciously irrelevant stuff like this and Rev. Wright get airtime, yet we never have any discourse on the numerous and consistent gaffes that John McCain has made that expose him to be even more clueless about the various tenuous situations in the middle east than the sitting president, and show him to be wholly unqualified for the job of President?

It's as if I were applying for a job where I have to understand C++ programming (and I don't), and I'm competing with other people; yet the boss of the company is more concerned about my competition's lack of a lapel pin than my gross incompetence. Christ it's fuckin' irritating.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Why is it that salaciously irrelevant stuff like this and Rev. Wright get airtime, yet we never have any discourse on the numerous and consistent gaffes that John McCain has made that expose him to be even more clueless about the various tenuous situations in the middle east than the sitting president, and show him to be wholly unqualified for the job of President?

It's as if I were applying for a job where I have to understand C++ programming (and I don't), and I'm competing with other people; yet the boss of the company is more concerned about my competition's lack of a lapel pin than my gross incompetence. Christ it's fuckin' irritating.[/quote]

If mykevermin =/ lapel pin
Then mykevermin == terrorist
End If
End Program Retarded Conservative Logic

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Why is it that salaciously irrelevant stuff like this and Rev. Wright get airtime, yet we never have any discourse on the numerous and consistent gaffes that John McCain has made that expose him to be even more clueless about the various tenuous situations in the middle east than the sitting president, and show him to be wholly unqualified for the job of President?

It's as if I were applying for a job where I have to understand C++ programming (and I don't), and I'm competing with other people; yet the boss of the company is more concerned about my competition's lack of a lapel pin than my gross incompetence. Christ it's fuckin' irritating.[/quote]I think it's because everyone is assuming that the democrats are going to win this election, Obama is the top contender so they're dissecting everything he says. They seem to assume that McCain isn't worth covering unless he says something just way out there.
 
:lol: at HotShot.

Joliet, what in the world makes you assume any Democrat has an election in the bag? After 2004, there should be no assumption that a Democrat, or the Democrat party in general, can't catastrophically fuck up a "sure thing" anymore. Don't doubt the ferocity of the Republican party to make shit up (Swift Vets) and stay on point so consistently that they get the message into the media (i.e., Dan Rather's forged docs being a major issue, rather than Bush's comfy-cozy National Guard service), and don't doubt the Democrat party's stupidity.
 
The only reason that the Democrats are getting the most airtime right now is because there's still some competition going on between them. McCain's already got the nomination, so I'm sure he's going to get a shitload of airtime when the General Election comes around.

For right now though, it's all about the Democratic Primary, at least for as long as Hillary continues to whine about everything. :)

But hey, it could be worse, imagine if neither party had a bit of competition going on and it wasn't time for the General Election.

That's right.....Ralph Nader 24/7 on the news, simply because he can continuously argue with himself.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Why is it that salaciously irrelevant stuff like this and Rev. Wright get airtime, yet we never have any discourse on the numerous and consistent gaffes that John McCain has made that expose him to be even more clueless about the various tenuous situations in the middle east than the sitting president, and show him to be wholly unqualified for the job of President?

It's as if I were applying for a job where I have to understand C++ programming (and I don't), and I'm competing with other people; yet the boss of the company is more concerned about my competition's lack of a lapel pin than my gross incompetence. Christ it's fuckin' irritating.[/quote]I think you'll see stuff on McCain once the Democrats have a nominee. He's not particularly exciting news right now. The Democratic race and stupid little arguments like this make for better ratings.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']:lol: at HotShot.

Joliet, what in the world makes you assume any Democrat has an election in the bag? After 2004, there should be no assumption that a Democrat, or the Democrat party in general, can't catastrophically fuck up a "sure thing" anymore. Don't doubt the ferocity of the Republican party to make shit up (Swift Vets) and stay on point so consistently that they get the message into the media (i.e., Dan Rather's forged docs being a major issue, rather than Bush's comfy-cozy National Guard service), and don't doubt the Democrat party's stupidity.[/quote]Did i say that I thought so anywhere in that post? Many people do though.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']:lol: at HotShot.

Joliet, what in the world makes you assume any Democrat has an election in the bag? After 2004, there should be no assumption that a Democrat, or the Democrat party in general, can't catastrophically fuck up a "sure thing" anymore. Don't doubt the ferocity of the Republican party to make shit up (Swift Vets) and stay on point so consistently that they get the message into the media (i.e., Dan Rather's forged docs being a major issue, rather than Bush's comfy-cozy National Guard service), and don't doubt the Democrat party's stupidity.[/QUOTE]

what i think will be interesting is how mccain fairs with independent voters in the general election. in years past hes been a pretty favorable guy for middle-of-the-roaders... lets not forget it wasnt that long ago that there was lots of talk about mccain switching parties. but with the republican nomination and him supposedly changing his tune on some conservative issues (ie: immigration) well see of those voters still back him.

i think mccain is the one guy the dems didnt want to get the nod, because of that appeal he used to have. and theres no way that the dems have this election locked up.

on topic though. obama needs to watch these kinds of remarks. personally, i think it was... odd... but i can see how middle america might view it as negative. and remember how bush won in 2004? thats right, middle america.
 
I see Obama as someone who just doesn't get it on a lot of things. The American people being bitter...anyone wanna take a shot? One word. Government.

Oh, and Hillary Clinton...I'd rather listen to a nail on a chalkboard for an hour than listen to her speak.
 
That is what Obama was talking about. People in small towns who have lost their job for the last 25 years and government has let them down. I urge all of you to watch "Idiocracy" it's a movie that while not great in style has a message about how everyone is getting stupider and stupider. The problem with the "bitter" remark is once again the main stream media keeps diluting a thoughtful answer, off the cuff, down to one paragraph and then distorts that.

Two great quotes from the movie-"it's got electrolytes" referring to why everyone uses sports drinks for everything water is used for, and "you talk like a $$$" to anyone who tries to express complex thought and a robust vocabulary.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Why is it that salaciously irrelevant stuff like this and Rev. Wright get airtime, yet we never have any discourse on the numerous and consistent gaffes that John McCain has made that expose him to be even more clueless about the various tenuous situations in the middle east than the sitting president, and show him to be wholly unqualified for the job of President?
[/QUOTE]

If you want to analyze each candidate on a variety of issues to the same extent, I think it's safe to say that all three of them are "wholly unqualified for the job of President", on many levels.

All we have is a popularity contest with no substance to look at.
 
I think they all three are qualified by the fact they are a native born and 35years of age. Is there anyone else you would rather have running that didn't run or didn't make it through the primaries?
 
[quote name='davidjinfla']That is what Obama was talking about. People in small towns who have lost their job for the last 25 years and government has let them down. [/QUOTE]

I think the guy you are responding to was saying that people are bitter about government interfering with our lives too much, not bitter about them not interfering enough.

What, if anything, should the government do about small towns losing jobs?

I honestly don't know anyone, or of anyone, that sits around and bitches in their small town for 25 years about jobs not being available. And if I did, I'd tell them to get a grip on reality and adapt. I certainly don't know anyone that honestly expects the government to make sure there are jobs available for them no matter where they live.... that's silly.
 
I live in a mid size city our government gives tax breaks and bribes to get jobs here. As for Federal Gov't they should stop giving tax breaks and bribes to ship jobs away. Help these people with re-education tax credits so they can learn new skills, subsidize their college if need be, put them to work by fixing nations infrastructure. The problem as I see it is Government has left them alone for to long and only helped out the companies that don't need it.
 
[quote name='davidjinfla']I think they all three are qualified by the fact they are a native born and 35years of age. Is there anyone else you would rather have running that didn't run or didn't make it through the primaries?[/QUOTE]

Ron Paul. Period. The current people running are Globalist assholes who have no loyalty and wish to send it down the river, the same goes to a lesser extent for most of Congress.
If any of the asswipes there, Democrat or Republican, gave a shit, they'd pull us out of Iraq asap for one and make sure any companies selling their products here still have to pay taxes, including Halliburton. Seriously if they say anything about Iraq and staying there, they're either an idiot or want to help deliver the kiss of death to our economy.
Any people like Paul, Gravel, Kucinich and others who actually care about getting out of Iraq can stay but the rest should be voted out and replaced with Independents as most Demos and Pubs will just give bullshit lipservice on Iraq.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Ron Paul. Period.
The current people running are Globalist assholes who have no loyalty and wish to send it down the river, the same goes to a lesser extent for most of Congress.
If any of the asswipes there, Democrat or Republican, gave a shit, they'd pull us out of Iraq asap for one and make sure any companies selling their products here still have to pay taxes, including Halliburton. Seriously if they say anything about Iraq and staying there, they're either an idiot or want to help deliver the kiss of death to our economy.
Any people like Paul, Gravel, Kucinich and others who actually care about getting out of Iraq can stay but the rest should be voted out and replaced with Independents as most Demos and Pubs will just give bullshit lipservice on Iraq.[/quote]

EPIC.

FAIL.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Ron Paul. Period. The current people running are Globalist assholes who have no loyalty and wish to send it down the river, the same goes to a lesser extent for most of Congress.
If any of the asswipes there, Democrat or Republican, gave a shit, they'd pull us out of Iraq asap for one and make sure any companies selling their products here still have to pay taxes, including Halliburton. Seriously if they say anything about Iraq and staying there, they're either an idiot or want to help deliver the kiss of death to our economy.
Any people like Paul, Gravel, Kucinich and others who actually care about getting out of Iraq can stay but the rest should be voted out and replaced with Independents as most Demos and Pubs will just give bullshit lipservice on Iraq.[/quote]
You know we can't just "pull out" of Iraq tomorrow. Something that large takes planning and strategy (unlike the war apparently...), if you pull to many people out at a time, then the ones that haven't been yet are left with less protection. Ron Paul acted like he'd have everyone home within a week, thats just ridiculous.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Ron Paul. Period. The current people running are Globalist assholes who have no loyalty and wish to send it down the river, the same goes to a lesser extent for most of Congress.
[/QUOTE]

I mostly agreed with this much of what you said.

But seriously, as right as Ron Paul is on many issues, his total anti-foreign war/foreign policy of any kind stance has scared most people away from him. If he were smart, he would have compromised at least that, and he might have a shot.

He needs to take a lesson from Obama and Clinton, and tell the people more of what they want to hear, rather than try to convince the people they are wrong and he is right.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I mostly agreed with this much of what you said.

But seriously, as right as Ron Paul is on many issues, his total anti-foreign war/foreign policy of any kind stance has scared most people away from him. If he were smart, he would have compromised at least that, and he might have a shot.

He needs to take a lesson from Obama and Clinton, and tell the people more of what they want to hear, rather than try to convince the people they are wrong and he is right.[/QUOTE]

At least you recognize Clinton and the other two have no loyalty to America and are stabbing us in the back.
Look I don't mind the idea of pulling out of Iraq while making sure to get our equipment out but past that I think we need this done asap. In a war that's bringing us toward bullshit like the Amero because it's crashing the dollar since we're not "paying" for the war now. Or better yet I think we should all be taxed for the war. Get a bunch of people in who would do that then miracles would happen because NO ONE wants to pay for this fucking war.
I say we take the bill for Iraq and make BUSH, GE, Westinghouse and others who've profited pay for it. They're War Profiteers and some of the foulest kind of scum.
What do you want for Foreign Policy? I think we should respect other countries independence and stop letting the CIA be hatchetmen for big multinational Corporations which place these countries into economic slavery. This is done by the World Bank setting up loans for them that can't possibly be paid back and when they default presto. Oh the leader doesn't want that? Let's kill him and put up a pliable puppet.
The solution for the entire world or rather the average citizen is self sustainability and it starts by people everywhere being able to take advantage of renewable energy. This includes Wind Energy, Solar Energy, Tidal Energy, possibly Geothermal Energy and burning things like Switchgrass and Hemp possibly. Basically almost all of these, in one way or another, one can set up something to create the electricity in the home or soon I believe this will be possible. Energy independence with NO cost for everyone would be the first real step towards true freedom. Right now in case you don't already know, Financial Freedom is one of the biggest priorities. Look how much big Oil can jerk around everyone because of their dependence and the cost they now pay.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']He needs to take a lesson from Obama and Clinton, and tell the people more of what they want to hear, rather than try to convince the people they are wrong and he is right.[/quote]

Spoken like a true neo-con.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']You know we can't just "pull out" of Iraq tomorrow. Something that large takes planning and strategy (unlike the war apparently...), if you pull to many people out at a time, then the ones that haven't been yet are left with less protection. Ron Paul acted like he'd have everyone home within a week, thats just ridiculous.[/quote]

Sure you can. Rig all of the equipment you can't move out of the country with explosives to be set off remotely. At night, have everybody move north or south out of the country. Kuwait is a friendly country to the south. Turkey is a friendly country to the north. The northern part of Iraq is relatively secure compared to the Sunni Triangle. When everybody is clear of rigged equipment, set off the explosives and let the local warlord or government services deal with that problem. By dawn, everybody who wants out of Iraq can be gone.

Sure, it's a crazy idea and it is a full retreat, but it is possible.
 
Nothin' at all, man. Believe it all. John Kerry didn't earn a Purple Heart. He was sittin' at home, watchin' Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-In" and eating Mallo-mars.

:roll:
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']And just what did they make up?[/quote]

You know damn well Kerry didn't get shot right.

Bush, if he had been in Vietnam, could have shown Kerry how to get shot correctly.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Nothin' at all, man. Believe it all. John Kerry didn't earn a Purple Heart. He was sittin' at home, watchin' Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-In" and eating Mallo-mars.

:roll:[/QUOTE]

So you have nothing useful to back up what you say? Interesting since you've tried to chide others for the same.
 
As far as what Daddy O said, it was incredibly stupid. For him or for any of the candidates to try to present themselves as an Everyman is ridiculous, and anyone with a rational eye can see it's pandering.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']So you have nothing useful to back up what you say? Interesting since you've tried to chide others for the same.[/QUOTE]

I'm busy writin' my dissertation, darlin'. Unless you wanna give me a credentialed Ph.D. for posting here, then you can wait your fuckin' turn.

K?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Why is it that salaciously irrelevant stuff like this and Rev. Wright get airtime, yet we never have any discourse on the numerous and consistent gaffes that John McCain has made that expose him to be even more clueless about the various tenuous situations in the middle east than the sitting president, and show him to be wholly unqualified for the job of President?

It's as if I were applying for a job where I have to understand C++ programming (and I don't), and I'm competing with other people; yet the boss of the company is more concerned about my competition's lack of a lapel pin than my gross incompetence. Christ it's fuckin' irritating.[/QUOTE]

/Thread on the first page.

This is why I'm not really following Obama vs. Clinton anymore. Total bunch of bullshit.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']At least you recognize Clinton and the other two have no loyalty to America and are stabbing us in the back.
Look I don't mind the idea of pulling out of Iraq while making sure to get our equipment out but past that I think we need this done asap. In a war that's bringing us toward bullshit like the Amero because it's crashing the dollar since we're not "paying" for the war now. Or better yet I think we should all be taxed for the war. Get a bunch of people in who would do that then miracles would happen because NO ONE wants to pay for this fucking war.
I say we take the bill for Iraq and make BUSH, GE, Westinghouse and others who've profited pay for it. They're War Profiteers and some of the foulest kind of scum.
What do you want for Foreign Policy? I think we should respect other countries independence and stop letting the CIA be hatchetmen for big multinational Corporations which place these countries into economic slavery. This is done by the World Bank setting up loans for them that can't possibly be paid back and when they default presto. Oh the leader doesn't want that? Let's kill him and put up a pliable puppet.
The solution for the entire world or rather the average citizen is self sustainability and it starts by people everywhere being able to take advantage of renewable energy. This includes Wind Energy, Solar Energy, Tidal Energy, possibly Geothermal Energy and burning things like Switchgrass and Hemp possibly. Basically almost all of these, in one way or another, one can set up something to create the electricity in the home or soon I believe this will be possible. Energy independence with NO cost for everyone would be the first real step towards true freedom. Right now in case you don't already know, Financial Freedom is one of the biggest priorities. Look how much big Oil can jerk around everyone because of their dependence and the cost they now pay.[/QUOTE]

I mostly agree with you. The problem is, I believe the conspiracy runs deeper. The dollar taking a dive is no accident. There is a purpose to it. If that purpose is the Amero, I don't think who we elect is going to stop that from happening at this point.

Then again, I have begun to believe the entire election process is nothing but a distractive amusement for the masses. It really doesn't function any more. I am just not sure when exactly it ceased to.

[quote name='camoor']Spoken like a true neo-con.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I looked up definitions of what "neo-con" means, and I can't find any solid definition. I don't recall ever signing up for this "neo-con" membership. And since I don't know what it is, and I don't know what was about my statement that made it sound like it came from a "neo-con"...... I can only surmise that "neo-con" used in that context, means "truth".

If you believe that my statement is false, please cite reasons for believing otherwise rather than resorting to name calling.
 
You know it's funny Thrust. You seem to understand things others like Myke seem oblivious too.

I honestly can't understand camoor though. I thought he was my $$$$a so I figured he could dig some of what you say but he snipes you? WTF camoor, this guy actually gets some of it. Dude how can YOU, a guy who knows wtf is up, be like that?! X-(
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm busy writin' my dissertation, darlin'. Unless you wanna give me a credentialed Ph.D. for posting here, then you can wait your fuckin' turn.

K?[/QUOTE]

Attention all:

The "I'm busy with something else so I can't back up what I say although I'll get on someone else's nuts for the same thing" gambit is now allowed.
 
As if the "I can't validate my own claims and the other guy's busy, so that makes me right" claim is equally valid?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth#Truth_of_allegations

Don't worry about the problems inherent in wikipedia, because you can visit all of the citations. The only people who have any potential to verify the claims of SVFT (that is, those people whose claims could potentially matter, unlike yours or mine since neither of us served in Vietnam) that ACTUALLY verify the claims of SVFT are, strangely enough, SVFT themselves. You won't find a single person outside of that organization who can verify a thing - yet ample media research, ample Vietnam veterans (including those not paid by GOP or DNC orgs to make claims!), and even John McCain himself (who experienced this kind of political attack himself - what a wimp, only spending 5 years as a POW!) repudiate SVFT.

They're a group of bullies who find nothing but contradictions when they look outside their inner circle, find plenty of inconsistencies when they look inside their inner circle - yet nevertheless, folks continue to believe every word they said, as if the claims of a PAID individual with a VENDETTA and VESTED INTEREST in defeating Kerry's campaign can be considered reliable (particularly when, I remind you again, there is nothing to support the SVFT claims other than SVFT themselves).

I'm sure I didn't convince you of anything, because we all know John Kerry earned his purple heart from a splinter he got, and his silver star was for saving his MRE desserts for his CO for two months of straight deployment. :roll: Gimmie a fuckin' break.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

They're a group of bullies who find nothing but contradictions when they look outside their inner circle, find plenty of inconsistencies when they look inside their inner circle - yet nevertheless, folks continue to believe every word they said, [/quote]


Had you been talking about political parties, I'd have felt those words were inspired.
 
Actually, I was pointing out your hyprocrisy - I think you missed the point there.

As far as your Wikipedia citation, I did look at the sources, and to no surprise, there were a few Leftist ones (especially not surprising if you consider Wikipedia's slant in the first place)such as the Huffington Post and the New York Times. They would lie for their side of the cause as easily as you say the SVFT members would.

And did I say I believed everything SVFT said? Uh, no - you inferred that. Were Kerry's wounds legitimate? News flash - I have no idea. Would I tend to disbelieve what he says about his Vietnam service? Given the Winter Soldier "hearings", the testimony he gave to the Committee On Foreign Relations, and his medal-tossing, yeah.

And just so I can also end my post by being hip and edgy, gimme a fuckin' break!
 
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