Official Amazon Trade-In/FAQ 3.1 - READ 1st POST

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handsomepete

handsomepete

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condition stuff seemingly pulled back by amazon, spoilered until I can reorg
Notice 4/14/11: New shenanigans abound! There is now a condition field for all trades - all trades are set to "Good" and may be determined to be worse than that ("Acceptable") or better ("Like New"). During the trade-in confirmation process you may choose whether to have an item in worse condition returned to you or just processed at the lower value. It does appear that this might mean that NORAM will start taking games/consoles without original packaging / manuals / etc which might be beneficial to some.

We'll see how this works out! To be added to the core FAQ after its newness wears off.

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Amazon.com Trade-in Home Page

Welcome to the Official CAG Amazon.com Trade-In Thread

THANKS TO DISILLUSION386 and GI60 FOR POSTING AND MAINTAINING THE PREVIOUS AMAZON TRADE-IN FAQ THREADS

This thread’s primary purpose is to discuss Amazon.com’s new video game trade-in program. The trade-in deal will be updated whenever one is available, and a list of flippable games will be in the second post. PLEASE READ THE TRADE-IN DEAL DETAILS AND FAQ BEFORE ASKING ANY QUESTIONS.

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Trade-In(s) of the Day
-= Can be found HERE =-
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Amazon.com Trading Info

Amazon.com Video Game Trade-In Store

Trade-In Procedure

1. Select Games: Games must be in good condition and your trade-in shipment valued at $10 or more
2. Ship Games FREE: Print a shipping label and packing slip, package your games, and ship them
3. Get a Gift Card: An Amazon.com Gift Card will be deposited into your account upon receipt of games
Click to expand...
Shipping Instructions

1. Print this entire page. (Packing slip and shipping label once you have submitted a trade)
2. Cut out the shipping label and the packing slip.
3. Make sure your items are in good working condition and include the case and cover art.
4. Securely pack the items in a box or envelope and include the packing slip in the package.
5. Attach the shipping label squarely onto the outside of the package and add your return address.
6. Take it to your nearest UPS Store and mail it by (one week from submission of trade)
7. Or you can ship to:
NorAm International
22 Hampshire Drive
Hudson, NH 03051
Click to expand...
Trade-In Product Eligibility

Trade-in items must match the exact version displayed in the Amazon Trade-In Store, not be damaged, include original packaging (e.g. the manual, cover art, and case), and be postmarked no later than 7 days after submission. You will receive an e-mail confirmation and an Amazon.com Gift Card will be deposited into your account within 2 business days of item receipt and verification by the merchant. Items not accepted by the merchant will be returned to you approximately 14 days after receipt.
Click to expand...
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GENERAL FAQ (Updated 12/10/09)

Can I post question on this thread?
Only if you can't find the answer from below. :lol: And please let me know if it needs to be added to FAQ.

My cover art (PLATINUM HITS) differs from the pic on amazon, will my trade be accepted?
It all depends on the UPC so just turn your game around, type in the upc into the amazon search box. If the game comes up, then it's accepted regardless of cover art. Click on that result to submit your trade.

Since when did Amazon start doing trades?
The program began in 2009 and is handled by a third party merchant, NorAm International.

What kind of shipping does Amazon provide us?
Free UPS ground ---- USPS is no longer available for free. There is now also an option to provide your own shipping.

Do I have to provide my own box or envelope?
Yes.

Do all my games in the same trade-in submission have to be shipped in the same box? (updated 3/9/11)
Not necessarily - people have sent in multiple boxes for the same trade-in submission successfully. It's even possible to send half at one time and the other half at the end of the valid shipping period. However, it's probably best to always ship everything at once.

Can I send in sealed games?
Yes. They won't reject games that still have the original shrink wrap.

Can I add Delivery Confirmation and Insurance to my shipment?
For UPS Ground
It already provides you with tracking information.

I don't trust UPS ground. Can I pay for postage myself? What's the address?
Yes. You're more than welcome to do so. The address is:
NorAm International
22 Hampshire Dr
Hudson, NH 03051

(This is also an option when submitting your trades)

When do I have to send my games once I have submitted my trade order?
You have 1 week (7 days) to send your games. There have been reports of submitting trades up to 15 - 20 days late, but that is definitely ymmv. Send on time for the best chance at success!

Crap, I have one day to go before my shipment deadline, but the website states that my deadline has already passed. How do I print out a shipping label and packing slip?
Load up any existing order (if you don't have any, check your browser's history), and substitute the transaction ID for the trade-in order you need at the end of the URL.

How long does the whole trade-in process usually take?
From the time you send in your games, it may take up to 14 business days for the package to arrive. Most people usually receive their credit (Amazon GiftCard) in 3 to 5 business days, however.

How long does the "processing" status usually take?
Usually with no delay, but the longest reported days so far is 4.

My games were received on Friday (based on Delivery Confirmation), will I have to wait until Monday to receive credit?
People have received credit on a Saturday.

I do not have the manual, cover art, or original case for a game I want to trade in. Will they accept it?
While the details specifically state that original packaging is necessary, people have reported in the past that their trades were accepted despite missing some of these. This is extremely YMMV, however since some were also rejected by missing manual or cover art. On the other hand, older gen games; such as SNES, N64, and GB cartridges, normally get accepted without the original box and manual, but still YMMV.
It's always better if you trade your non-complete game as an additional credit, not part of the minimum requirement to qualify for the promo.

I do not have the manual, accessories, original box, original included game, etc for a console or accessory I want to trade in. Will they accept it? (updated 3/9/11)
The current wisdom is "probably not" - it's pretty YMMV but NorAm seems stricter than they should be on this. Your chances seem to be better for them accepting a console or accessory without the box / manual / etc if it's older generation or rare. You're more than welcome to give it a shot though if you're feeling lucky - just pack it well and include as much as you can!

My game is really beat up, what are the chances they’ll accept it?
This is YMMV. Some people have reported in the past that they sent in games in bad shape that were still accepted. Your best bet is still to trade in games in mint condition. Minor scratches are expected as these are used games.

My game is the Greatest Hits version, but the one pictured on the site isn’t. Can I still trade it in?
Unless the game in question has two separate versions that trade at different values, sending in a greatest hits version is okay.

I have a game from a limited edition bundle, will they accept it?
If the game’s cover art has a UPC barcode, they will most likely accept it. If your game's cover states "Not for Resale" and does not have a UPC barcode, the game will most likely get rejected. Some people have had their games accepted in the past, but this is YMMV.

The UPC barcode is not intact on my game's cover art, will that be accepted? (updated 3/9/11)
This is YMMV, but probably not. The UPC is all powerful within the walls of NorAm.

I sent in my games, all of which were in pristine condition with the original packaging, but they said that one game is damaged and is now being returned.
Always pack your games well. Put a lot of newspaper around your games in the box to secure them and to prevent any damages from haphazard box cutting. People in the past have requested their entire trade-in order if it’s obvious the damage wasn’t their fault, and Amazon ended up accepting the rejected game. This is YMMV as well.

Can I trade in multiple copies of the same game?
Yes. Once you click “Trade in” for a particular game, you may change the quantities. Once you submit, you can no longer change quantities on that trade-in batch.

How many multiple copies of the same game can I trade-in (updated 1/11/11)?
Maximum of 2 copies within 3 months period

I locked in X copies of a game but I now only have Y available to send. Can I just send in Y without being penalized? (updated 3/9/11)
Yes, you can always just send in a portion of your trade-in order and they'll just credit you for whatever they receive. However, the quantities you submitted for will stay locked in that instance (I think) so if you, for example, submitted for 2 copies and only sent 1, you may not be able to trade any more copies of that game for 3 months (see previous question).

Will the Trade-in of the Day TIV stay for 24 hours?
It's been reported that there is a limit (maximum # of copies) that will get the promoted TIV so lock yours.

So if I find a good flip, I can just send 2 copies of that game and not worry about Amazon accusing me of stolen merchandise?
Technically yes, but do keep in mind that other CAGs might want to participate in the current deal, and trading in a large number of the same game will definitely lower the TIV of said game. Let’s be nice to other people.

Wow, these TIVs suck (updated 3/9/11)!
Really? Hrm. While that may be true, they're often better than other comparable places. Your options of what to do with your used games are greater now than they've ever been, so feel free to shop your trades around or just sell them off on glyde/gamestaq/ebay/whatever.

What the fuck? The TIV of a game I just bought for this deal tanked! What do I do?
The TIVs on Amazon fluctuate depending on the number of trades that are submitted, and we really can’t do anything about it. The best course of action for trading in games is to lock in your trade if you already have the games or are absolutely sure that you can obtain them. You can always cancel the trade submission if you end up not finding the games.

LOCK = SUBMIT YOUR TRADE, Don't just put it in the cart.

Can I edit a submitted trade?
Nope - once upon a time you could modify trade in quantities of submitted trades, but that ability has been removed.

Can I use my credit (not the trade-in deal coupon) on items that are not video game-related?
Yes. This is the other perk for trading in games at Amazon since you're not limited to just video games.

Can I use my credit on items sold by third-party merchants on Amazon?
According to the fine print of the Amazon gift card use, some merchants are excluded. Your best bet is to try it on the checkout page of your order.

Strategy guides? I can trade in game/strategy guides? Whaaaaa?
Go to the Textbook Buyback section (http://www.amazon.com/Textbooks-Trad...ode=2205237011). You can either search on the title of a strategy guide you have to see if they'll accept it, or search for guides. The two best search strings to start with are 'prima guides' and 'bradygames'. Might try 'doublejump' if you want to trade in some of those. (Thanks eugaet)

I locked in some hilariously overvalued trade for some weird rare game/accessory/etc that I can pick up for cheap cheap cheap. They didn't accept it. What should I do? (updated 3/9/11)
The truth is that NORAM can reject things for any reason they see fit. While some people have managed to get silly things like a $200 credit for some cheerleading game, it's sooooooo YMMV that often it's not worth the effort. EXPECT REJECTION ON THINGS THAT ARE CLEARLY MISVALUED. That said, as long as you're willing to risk it, go for it!

trade-in promo related faq spoilered for history. promos no longer offered by amazon
---- TRADE-IN PROMO RELATED FAQ ---

When do I receive my coupon code for the current trade-in deal, if any?
The Terms of Service states 10 days after Amazon has accepted your games and added credit to your account, but it usually takes 2 to 3 days.

Can I do two different trade-in submissions that add up to the requirements of the current trade-in deal, if any?
No. In order to qualify for any of the trade-in promos, they have to all be in one trade-in submission. You can't add another game later on to make the minimum. However, you can adjust the quantity of the submitted game to make the minimum.

I submitted my trade-in order online, how do I know if I qualified for the current trade-in deal, if any? Is there a confirmation page or e-mail?
No. They will automatically send you a coupon code once they have accepted your shipment of games and credited your account.

Is the trade-in deal coupon in addition to the credit I will receive for my games?
Yes.

Can I trade in DVDs to take advantage of the current trade-in deal?
You may trade in DVDs to add credit to your Amazon account, but they will not be added to the amount you need to qualify for the deal.

Can I take advantage of the current trade-in (if available) promo more than once?
These deals are “One per household” unless stated otherwise. However, you may use a different Amazon account. The credit for your games will be tied to the specific account used for the trade, but the coupon codes for the deals are not.
*However, some people has confirmed that they get multiple coupon by using 1 Amazon account after doing multiple submission.
NOTE: IF YOU SEND MORE THAN 1 SUBMISSION, THE MULTIPLE COUPONS MIGHT COME IN 1 EMAIL, THE CODE IS SEPARATED BY A COMMA.

If the coupon codes aren’t tied to my account, can I use more than one coupon on my next purchase?
No. Unless stated otherwise in the promo details, these coupons cannot be combined with other offers or promotions.

So if they reject one of my games, am I disqualified from the current trade-in deal, if any?
Unfortunately yes. The best suggestion for trading in games is to trade in $10-$20 more than the minimum for the deal. By doing so, you will still qualify for the promo even if one or two games get rejected.

Can I use the trade-in deal coupon on preorders?
Yes.

What happen to the Coupon code if I cancel the preorder?
The coupon code will stay with your account. It will be applied automatically at check-out as long as the coupon is not expired.

Can I use the trade-in deal coupon when shopping from other merchants on Amazon?
No. ONLY ITEMS SOLD BY AMAZON.COM QUALIFY FOR PURCHASE WITH THE TRADE-IN COUPON. Even Amazon's other sites (Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.jp, etc.) do not participate in these trade-in deals.

Trade-in coupon Usage:
Previous promo coupons and their expiration dates (NO ACTIVE PROMOS CURRENTLY):

1st Promo - $ 50 / $75 Coupon (coupon exp: 8/31) - Game Console Only
2nd Promo - 50 % Coupon (coupon exp: 8/31) - Game and Accessories
3rd Promo - $ 30 Coupon (coupon exp: 12/31) - Game Console, Game and Accessories
4th Promo - $ 30 Coupon (coupon exp: 12/31) - Game Console Only
 
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[quote name='Cerebral_One']Correct me if I'm wrong but the Dreamcast trade in requires the power cable, AV cable, and 1 controller?[/QUOTE]

You are correct - they like the box too, but I don't think it's required now.
 
[quote name='twinton']It's now showing $40.00 for the Dreamcast TIV.[/QUOTE]

Well, that's pretty stupid. It was still $10.25 at 1:30 AM Pacific and showing as the deal of the day. I know they've been late with the price update before. They need to get that stuff to change when it goes up as the DotD. But whatever, it's not like I have a Dreamcast to trade in anyway. I'm not sure I've ever even seen one before, actually ;).
 
So I looked more into my 360 blanka street fighter pad being rejected due to defective analog stick. Yeah analog stick on a directional pad. Anyways the tiv has dropped from 41.25 to 3.50. Now what do you think the real reason they didn't take my controller. This is the first time I've ever had a problem but this seems downright shady. And yes the controller works perfectly fine.
 
why does amazon refuse to add homefront(360) for trade in?!

so close to just going over to best buy and trading in my copy there rather than waiting for amazon to add it
 
[quote name='rvdrock']So I looked more into my 360 blanka street fighter pad being rejected due to defective analog stick. Yeah analog stick on a directional pad. Anyways the tiv has dropped from 41.25 to 3.50. Now what do you think the real reason they didn't take my controller. This is the first time I've ever had a problem but this seems downright shady. And yes the controller works perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]

Sorry man NORAM does this kinda thing quite often.

Here's their number if you want to complain (603)881-3151.
 
After sending a third email to amazon. They gave me a 41.25 promo credit. Apparently they agreed I was getting screwed. Gotta love amazon customer service.
 
PC game values have dropped, and dropped hard. Especially things like Vampire:The Masquerade: Bloodlines, not that anyone would trade rare pc games in anyway.
 
[quote name='rvdrock']After sending a third email to amazon. They gave me a 41.25 promo credit. Apparently they agreed I was getting screwed. Gotta love amazon customer service.[/QUOTE]

took 3 emails? what did they say in the first 2 to deny you and what did you have to say to get them to eventually side with you the third time?
 
So they finally added the xbox 360 to the trade in list and i want to trade it in.

My 360 works fine and everything but the problem is that sometimes, the disc tray gets jammed when you try to open it so it doesnt open after some very good eject button presses..is this a problem or will they accept it?

its just random when the console does it.
 
got my 40 for kz3 and 36.75 for 2worlds2. woot. now to get the plat and trade in bulletstorm for 40 before it runs out! just a quick grind to level 65 n im platinum!
 
This is somewhat off topic, but does Amazon marketplace listings expire? I was thinking of selling some stuff on Amazon.
 
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Does anyone know if they accept third party cables with a console trade in? I currently can find the composite cable that came in with my 360. But i do have a better one that is HD AV cable but its a third party one. Do you think they will accept this?
 
They must have changed the DC trade in as it is showing $10.25 for me. Too bad as I have an extra one just sitting here, and $40 more would be great.


So does Amazon officially do disc resurface trade-in's? I have an original copy of Persona PSX, it's trading in for $30, although it's disc only so I don't think they'd take it.
 
[quote name='BiggNick']They must have changed the DC trade in as it is showing $10.25 for me. Too bad as I have an extra one just sitting here, and $40 more would be great.


So does Amazon officially do disc resurface trade-in's? I have an original copy of Persona PSX, it's trading in for $30, although it's disc only so I don't think they'd take it.[/QUOTE]

The dreamcast was yesterday's trade in of the day, which is why it had an inflated trade in value.

They wouldn't take it if it was missing the artwork, manual and case. It would have to be complete for them to accept it.
 
Does anyone know if they accept third party cables with a console trade in? I currently can find the composite cable that came in with my 360. But i do have a better one that is HD AV cable but its a third party one. Do you think they will accept this?...
 
I went to staples with my sf4 joystick in the 50-pack frito-lay chips box you get from costco and they took it no problem. Stupid UPS store wouldn't take it.
 
Would they accept an Xbox 360 with disc tray stuck problem? it works and everything but its just that damn tray that opens when it wants to.
 
[quote name='ral1121']Would they accept an Xbox 360 with disc tray stuck problem? it works and everything but its just that damn tray that opens when it wants to.[/QUOTE]

Depends on whether it happens when they test it. If it's like 50% of the time, it'll be rejected. If it works 90% of the time (enough to pass their basic testing without cropping up) then you might get lucky.

Either way it's worth a shot... shipping both ways is on them if it's rejected.
 
[quote name='fujimitsu']Depends on whether it happens when they test it. If it's like 50% of the time, it'll be rejected. If it works 90% of the time (enough to pass their basic testing without cropping up) then you might get lucky.

Either way it's worth a shot... shipping both ways is on them if it's rejected.[/QUOTE]


Well that sucks.....When I turn my xbox on, does tray is stuck, after a few tries, it opens up.....idk if i should do it or not. I have everything included, the original box, manuals aren't even opened, and all the little bags for the accesories that came with it. it will be a hassle.
 
[quote name='ebaughn1']Has anybody else been having trouble accessing their trade in account[/QUOTE]

Working for me. Have heard of others having intermittent issues before though, especially those with huge numbers of pending or canceled trade ins.
 
Locked in a trade for a Dreamcast when it was DOTD but I don't think I have the standard A/V cables anymore, any chance they'd accept a VGA box with some generic RCA cables as an alternative?
 
[quote name='Psybuster']Locked in a trade for a Dreamcast when it was DOTD but I don't think I have the standard A/V cables anymore, any chance they'd accept a VGA box with some generic RCA cables as an alternative?[/QUOTE]

im not sure, but id be willing to trade you my dreamcast a/v cables for your vga box :)
 
[quote name='frpilot']took 3 emails? what did they say in the first 2 to deny you and what did you have to say to get them to eventually side with you the third time?[/QUOTE]

Had to point out that it seemed shady to go from 41.25 to 3.50 and my trade in happened to be rejected then.
 
[quote name='ral1121']Was it a mistake that they offered me 130 dollars for my Xbox 360 120gb elite trade in?


The 250gb Xbox 360 slim is going for 127.[/QUOTE]

The TIVs make no sense some times, pricing is determined based on a lot of factors... some are way too high and some are way too low. You got lucky just go with it :)
 
So I've been trying to trade in Homefront for the 360 for past couple days. No trade-in option pops up. Seems kinda weird; it's there for PS3 but no way to trade in for 360. Is this normal for a brand new game like this?
 
[quote name='linkbear']So I've been trying to trade in Homefront for the 360 for past couple days. No trade-in option pops up. Seems kinda weird; it's there for PS3 but no way to trade in for 360. Is this normal for a brand new game like this?[/QUOTE]

pretty normal. sometimes it'll take a few weeks to a month for a tiv to pop-up on a new game.
 
So today NORAM actally returned 3 empty cases to me. I sent in 6 games. they claimed to receive only 3 empty cases. So they basically stole 6 games. Amazon did credit me but I am just amazed at the blatant thievery of this company. The funny part is that when tracking the return they shipped the 3 cases but then created another return label but never sent them. I bet it was created mistakenly for the other games, but caught and not sent, so as to corroborate and not expose their fraudulent claim.
 
Cap'n_RDM;8293675 said:
How/Why is Amazon letting Noram get away with these shady business practices?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Toss is lying but it might not even be NorAm's fault. It's possible UPS guy stole it. Or someone misplaced it. But it's not necessarily outright theft.

To me, NorAm is like the casinos. Since the odds (T&Cs) favor the house, there's no need to cheat.

If they overpriced the trade in, they can simply say "price mistake".

If they don't want your game, they can say "not up to quality"

There's no need to steal from you since they are better off running a proper operation. High margins on used games, especially when coupled with amazon credit.

I think NorAm just suffers from incompetence. And also, you only hear about the bad experiences while the vast majority get processed without a hitch.
 
[quote name='anathema728']Two sf4 joysticks went through.[/QUOTE]

Which system? SE or TE? And what all did you include?

JW as I got an iffy one from AWD... wondering if i should return or flip.
 
sent off 3 games(2 sealed) worth $97.25 on march 11th and noram recieved em on the 18th and today i just got credited :D

btw im in california
 
I have done alot of trades (recently got a 50" panasonic 1080p 3D plasma with trade in credit - $7.76 out of pocket, I didn't quite have enough) and I notice the ONLY times things get rejected for me has been when the TIV tanks. This is what the trade was
2 the shoot tiv then 20.75 tiv now 8.50
2 the fight 20.75 11.25
2 mel b 14.00 7.00

I think when something goes on clearance at a national chain like target, that is flippable, they probably get a ton of these in pretty quick. I bet some supervisor type guy makes the call to "lose" a few, reject/return a few. I mean why not? ....there's no consequence to them doing so. I started a BBB complaint, but decided not to because ....1. amazon reimbursed me for this one, 2. I don't want to start anything that ruins this program for everyone.

Now I know where these AWD games listed as acceptable - may not contain case, art work, or manual, come from. We all know they don't accept them that way, but I've seen a few games offered in this condition. I will watch for my "missing" discs just for fun.
 
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[quote name='Toss']I have done alot of trades (recently got a 50" panasonic 1080p 3D plasma with trade in credit - $7.76 out of pocket, I didn't quite have enough) and I notice the ONLY times things get rejected for me has been when the TIV tanks. This is what the trade was
2 the shoot tiv then 20.75 tiv now 8.50
2 the fight 20.75 11.25
2 mel b 14.00 7.00

I think when something goes on clearance at a national chain that is flippable, they probably get a ton of these in pretty quick. I bet some supervisor type guy makes the call to "lose" a few, reject/return a few. I mean why not? ....there's no recourse or consequence to them doing so.[/QUOTE]

I traded in 4 copies of each of those games, as well as telling my friends to do the same for another 2 of each. None of it was rejected.

In fact I've never gotten a rejection on a video game for any reason and I only use amazon TIV for flips.
 
[quote name='fujimitsu']I traded in 4 copies of each of those games, as well as telling my friends to do the same for another 2 of each. None of it was rejected.

In fact I've never gotten a rejection on a video game for any reason and I only use amazon TIV for flips.[/QUOTE]

I'll admit maybe only 1 in 50 go bad but there's definitely a pattern to my handfull of rejections in the last year and a half. I know there's never been a rejection where the TIV is higher upon return than when I locked it in. I almost feel like it's a little message on their part. Something like " just saying hi bitch, we know who you are, what you are doing, and we don't like it. We are watching you."
 
homefront TIV on the xbox 360 went from $36.50 to $21 in less than an hour. WTF!!!!!!

EDIT: Back up to 32..FAWK THAT
 
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[quote name='ral1121']Was it a mistake that they offered me 130 dollars for my Xbox 360 120gb elite trade in?


The 250gb Xbox 360 slim is going for 127.[/QUOTE]

I got $120 for my 20gb launch 360 just a few days ago.
 
[quote name='fujimitsu']Which system? SE or TE? And what all did you include?

JW as I got an iffy one from AWD... wondering if i should return or flip.[/QUOTE]

360 SE, included the move chart, box, and some thingies in a small package forgot what they were for. Parts unused except for the pcb.

I only used them for the pcb since I got them for $16 each from walmart.com, but trading them was obviously better, so I put them back in.

Don't think you can "flip" anymore since the SE is now down to 14.75, it was hovering around 60-70.

So I assume you're talking about PS3 SE since that trades in for 60
 
[quote name='Toss']I started a BBB complaint, but decided not to because ....1. amazon reimbursed me for this one, 2. I don't want to start anything that ruins this program for everyone.
[/QUOTE]

What exactly do you think will happen that ruin the program for everyone?
If it makes you feel better go ahead and do it. Its not like anything you write to BBB is going to change something - especially something that you cant prove. Best case scenario is that amazon/noram will respond to your complaint and offer you a couple bucks just the same as if you contacted amazon customer support.

BBB Rant Below:
Anyways, BBB is pretty much useless and irrelevant these days. Do any consumers actually read BBB complaints for any Big Business and then actually change their shopping habits?

Further BBB is an organization founded by, run by, and in the service of businesses. Are they better than nothing? Perhaps in some cases, but don't forget who their ultimate boss is. Its not that hard for businesses to avoid any sort of punishment, not that a reduction in grade on the BBB site is really that much of punishment (and not something likely to happen for any place that reports to BBB high numbers of transactions/volume - look at ebay - great grade despite huge amounts of unresolved complaints because the complaints are weighed against the huge number of sales that occur)
 
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