Ohio recount complete, Bush beats Kerry by 118k+ votes

[quote name='gamefreak'][quote name='Firebrand']In order to be credible, you must be truthful to yourself and others.

George W. Bush is a lie. He isn't really president. Truth be told, he has never really done anything.[/quote]

Electorial Votes:
Bush: 286
Kerry: 251


286>251 and as you only need a simple majority to win, Bush is the president.

What's the big deal about him trying to get Christian votes? No one round here complains when people try to get minority votes...[/quote]
He's president of the United States, but we know he couldn't conjure an original thought or write a policy if his life depended on it. The man quite simply is a mockery.
 
[quote name='Firebrand']Most Americans, whether they realize it or not, are those things.[/quote]

Do you live in the U.S.? If so, you need to get out more and meet more people, not to mention be an eensie bit less pessimistic. If not, you obviously know jack about our country.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='Firebrand']The United States is divided. Only a fool would think otherwise.[/quote]

Only a fool would believe that most Americans don't share a good deal of common values.[/quote]
Hypocrisy, greediness and cowardice.[/quote]

Yes, most Americans don't like those things.[/quote]

Bush won on two things, Fundamentalist Christianity and Fear. He was able to market these two aspects of his campaign chiefly through donations from huge corporations and the wealthiest of Americans.

IMO, his actions as President have not been truly Christian (IE living up to the ideals set forth by Jesus Christ himself).

I don't agree that most Americans share these 3 values (I think ignorance and blind loyalty to the Republican party are also factors that helped Bush win). However I do think that voters who acted on feelings of greediness, cowardice, and a false sense that Bush was a great Christian gave the Bush campaign the edge it needed to win the election.[/quote]

You're contradicting yourself. You say that Americans are hypocritical, greedy and cowardly, yet you also say more voted for Bush because he was more of a fundamentalist Christian. You realize that these are mutually exclusive, don't you? If you're a devout Christian surely you believe in strong moral values and charity, things that are virtual opposites of hypocrisy, greed and cowardice.
 
[quote name='jmcc']Paranoia is one thing, but given the Patriot Act, and such other legislation punched through after 9/11, I don't think it's really a bad thing to be wary of the government anymore.[/quote]

Good. Everyone should be very wary of government all the time, not just when the "other party" is in power (for your Dem/Rep partisans).
 
[quote name='elprincipe']If you're a devout Christian surely you believe in strong moral values and charity, things that are virtual opposites of hypocrisy, greed and cowardice.[/quote]
A lot of people may believe in them, but not many people practice them. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.
 
[quote name='Firebrand']He's president of the United States, but we know he couldn't conjure an original thought or write a policy if his life depended on it. The man quite simply is a mockery.[/quote]

I bet you don't know one thing about him other than what you've seen on TV or read in a newspaper or magazine. However, with your amazing ESP powers, you can deduce that he "couldn't conjure an original thought." How brave and logical of you. :roll:

EDIT: damn, now you've gone so far that you have ME defending Bush! :?
 
[quote name='Drocket'][quote name='elprincipe']If you're a devout Christian surely you believe in strong moral values and charity, things that are virtual opposites of hypocrisy, greed and cowardice.[/quote]
A lot of people may believe in them, but not many people practice them. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.[/quote]

You all sure are a pessimistic bunch. You need to meet some new people and get a better outlook on life.
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='Firebrand']He's president of the United States, but we know he couldn't conjure an original thought or write a policy if his life depended on it. The man quite simply is a mockery.[/quote]

I bet you don't know one thing about him other than what you've seen on TV or read in a newspaper or magazine. However, with your amazing ESP powers, you can deduce that he "couldn't conjure an original thought." How brave and logical of you. :roll:

EDIT: damn, now you've gone so far that you have ME defending Bush! :?[/quote]
One needn't look further than the list of his personal accomplishments.

"The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper." -Thomas Jefferson
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='Firebrand']He's president of the United States, but we know he couldn't conjure an original thought or write a policy if his life depended on it. The man quite simply is a mockery.[/quote]

I bet you don't know one thing about him other than what you've seen on TV or read in a newspaper or magazine. However, with your amazing ESP powers, you can deduce that he "couldn't conjure an original thought." How brave and logical of you. :roll:

EDIT: damn, now you've gone so far that you have ME defending Bush! :?[/quote]
One needn't look further than the list of his personal accomplishments.

"The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper." -Thomas Jefferson[/quote]

You mean like he graduated from Yale?
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='Firebrand']He's president of the United States, but we know he couldn't conjure an original thought or write a policy if his life depended on it. The man quite simply is a mockery.[/quote]

I bet you don't know one thing about him other than what you've seen on TV or read in a newspaper or magazine. However, with your amazing ESP powers, you can deduce that he "couldn't conjure an original thought." How brave and logical of you. :roll:

EDIT: damn, now you've gone so far that you have ME defending Bush! :?[/quote]
One needn't look further than the list of his personal accomplishments.

"The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper." -Thomas Jefferson[/quote]

You mean like he graduated from Yale?[/quote]
Due to personal diligence no doubt.
 
So Firebrand, how would you stand up if people came in and overanalyzed every facet of your personal life?
 
[quote name='JSweeney']So Firebrand, how would you stand up if people came in and overanalyzed every facet of your personal life?[/quote]
A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='JSweeney']So Firebrand, how would you stand up if people came in and overanalyzed every facet of your personal life?[/quote]
A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.[/quote]

Most of our presidents have been Fortunate sons, now granted they were fortunate mentally as well as socially.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='JSweeney']So Firebrand, how would you stand up if people came in and overanalyzed every facet of your personal life?[/quote]
A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.[/quote]

Most of our presidents have been Fortunate sons, now granted they were fortunate mentally as well as socially.[/quote]
And that is my point.
 
A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.

Care to lace into Regan for being an actor?
Perhaps Kennedy for being a "fortunate son"?
 
[quote name='JSweeney']A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.

Care to lace into Regan for being an actor?
Perhaps Kennedy for being a "fortunate son"?[/quote]
There are exceptions, certainly, but this latest exception takes things a bit too far, wouldn't you say? Competence should be requisite.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']Care to lace into Regan for being an actor?
Perhaps Kennedy for being a "fortunate son"?[/quote]

Reagan can be laced into for LOTS of other stuff besides being an actor. His economic policies and anti-drug stance, among others. And to compare Kennedy, with his pro-civil rights agenda and pro-science (space program), to Bush and his movements against homosexuals, Muslims and stem cells, is insulting, to say the least.
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='JSweeney']Care to lace into Regan for being an actor?
Perhaps Kennedy for being a "fortunate son"?[/quote]

Reagan can be laced into for LOTS of other stuff besides being an actor. His economic policies and anti-drug stance, among others. And to compare Kennedy, with his pro-civil rights agenda and pro-science (space program), to Bush and his movements against homosexuals, Muslims and stem cells, is insulting, to say the least.[/quote]

Of course. But in this last little period, it's not been Bush's policies Firebrand's been talking about. Any reasonable person could debate those faults quite well and put up a con point of view for everything Bush has done.

Those are much more compelling than arguing about this somewhat imaginary image of Bush being an incompetent moron who only got the office by riding Daddy's coattails. He may not be the most eloquent president ever, and I wouldn't doubt that many other presidents were more intellegent.

Attack what he's done, his beliefs, whatever. But really, most of what Firebrand is doing is hardly a step above juvenile namecalling.
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='JSweeney']Care to lace into Regan for being an actor?
Perhaps Kennedy for being a "fortunate son"?[/quote]

Reagan can be laced into for LOTS of other stuff besides being an actor. His economic policies and anti-drug stance, among others. And to compare Kennedy, with his pro-civil rights agenda and pro-science (space program), to Bush and his movements against homosexuals, Muslims and stem cells, is insulting, to say the least.[/quote]

Of course. But in this last little period, it's not been Bush's policies Firebrand's been talking about. Any reasonable person could debate those faults quite well and put up a con point of view for everything Bush has done.

Those are much more compelling than arguing about this somewhat imaginary image of Bush being an incompetent moron who only got the office by riding Daddy's coattails. He may not be the most eloquent president ever, and I wouldn't doubt that many other presidents were more intellegent.

Attack what he's done, his beliefs, whatever. But really, most of what Firebrand is doing is hardly a step above juvenile namecalling.[/quote]

Your forgetting to consider the president as a figure head, after all he represents the country not only in his actions but also his appearance. When he gives a speech and uses non-existant words he portrays an image of us for the rest of the world that we have been trying since before the revolutionary war to remove. While images can be overcome its not the best idea to have Europe thinking your leader is incompetent when you want to drag them into a war, that is strongly opposed.
 
Your forgetting to consider the president as a figure head, after all he represents the country not only in his actions but also his appearance.

Attacking his appearance would be preferable.
In my mind, there is a difference between "Bush looks/conducts himself like an idiot" to "Bush is an idiot".


When he gives a speech and uses non-existant words he portrays an image of us for the rest of the world that we have been trying since before the revolutionary war to remove.

That would be attacking his actions, which is much more preferable.
Perhaps it's just me, but I find a vast difference between
"Bush looked like an idiot because he used non-existant words" to
"Bush is an idiot".


While images can be overcome its not the best idea to have Europe thinking your leader is incompetent when you want to drag them into a war, that is strongly opposed.

I'd agree. But attacking what is the real issue is much more useful that petty namecalling.
"Bush's recent actions made him look like an idiot", or "That speech made Bush look like an idiot" are valid complaints.
"Bush is an idiot" is just about useless, and adds little but derisiveness to a converation.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']I'd agree. But attacking what is the real issue is much more useful that petty namecalling.
"Bush's recent actions made him look like an idiot", or "That speech made Bush look like an idiot" are valid complaints.
"Bush is an idiot" is just about useless, and adds little but derisiveness to a converation.[/quote]
You want specific examples? We are all aware of the constant bumbles and idiocies. To humor you would be a pointless exercise.

Ponder this for a moment. If all of these public blunders of his can be explained by a simple fear of public speaking, then a question must be posed: Should such a person be president of the United States? Open to the worlds scrutiny, a poor speaker/thinker will be torn to shreds. The chief representative of the world's foremost nation shouldn't be a woeful simpleton.
 
You want specific examples? We are all aware of the constant bumbles and idiocies. To humor you would be a pointless exercise.

You don't seem to be getting the point.
Calling someone an idiot is much different that saying they act like, or appear to be an idiot. One can be back up with examples. The other is just petty name calling and serves no purpose. Many of the things you were stating were more of the former than the later.


Ponder this for a moment. If all of these public blunders of his can be explained by a simple fear of public speaking, then a question must be posed: Should such a person be president of the United States? Open to the worlds scrutiny, a poor speaker/thinker will be torn to shreds.

This is a valid critique...

The chief representative of the world's foremost nation shouldn't be a woeful simpleton.
and then you go and ruin it with namecalling.
 
I will chime in and say that just because you are incredibly smart and a great person, it does not mean you will be a great president. If it did, the peanut farmer from Georgia would have won a second term.

This can be cited again with Bush Sr. Probably the most qualified man to ever be president
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='JSweeney']So Firebrand, how would you stand up if people came in and overanalyzed every facet of your personal life?[/quote]
A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.[/quote]

He was able to get 62 million people to vote for him. That's a pretty impressive feat isn't it? If I recall correctly, no where in the Constitution does it say you must be a war hero or a scholar. The way some liberals talk I'd think they'd perfer an average American as opposed to someone who has money.
 
[quote name='gamefreak'][quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='JSweeney']So Firebrand, how would you stand up if people came in and overanalyzed every facet of your personal life?[/quote]
A president should be an exceptional individual. Let's not set the bar too low. American presidents have been scholars, inventors, war heroes, etc. Fortunate sons? America deserves better.[/quote]

He was able to get 62 million people to vote for him. That's a pretty impressive feat isn't it? If I recall correctly, no where in the Constitution does it say you must be a war hero or a scholar. The way some liberals talk I'd think they'd perfer an average American as opposed to someone who has money.[/quote]
Does the end justify the means?
 
[quote name='gamefreak']He was able to get 62 million people to vote for him. That's a pretty impressive feat isn't it?[/quote]
In theory, yes. In reality, it just proves that there's a whole lot of stupid Americans. Even if you do give Bush some credit for it, it really isn't Bush who should get the credit but Carl Rove.

If I recall correctly, no where in the Constitution does it say you must be a war hero or a scholar.
Click to expand...
I think they just assumed that most Americans would vote for qualified canidates. They were far too optimistic. Well, except Washington, who predicted that political parties would destroy the country. He had a pretty good grasp of reality.

The way some liberals talk I'd think they'd perfer an average American as opposed to someone who has money.
Click to expand...
You mean someone with intelligence, skill and discipline, who worked hard their entire life to climb to the top, overcoming obsticles and learning hard life lessons, as opposed to someone who was born at the top and had money dumped on him by rich oil barons hoping to curry favor with his father, the president? Sounds good to me.
 
[quote name='Firebrand']The United States is divided. Only a fool would think otherwise.[/quote]
*Sigh* Why are we divided? I am sick of hearing presidential debates two moths after an election. If we are divided it is because of people like you that won’t let bygones be bygones. As an American I Believe we police our selves well, if a President gets out of hand we will deal with it. Bush has yet to do that (and don''t give me some Fahrenheit 911 Bullshit!)

Edit: My First "CAG's vs. mode: Politics and Other Such Controversies" Post
 
[quote name='spoo'][quote name='Firebrand']The United States is divided. Only a fool would think otherwise.[/quote]
*Sigh* Why are we divided? I am sick of hearing presidential debates two moths after an election. If we are divided it is because of people like you that won’t let bygones be bygones. As an American I Believe we police our selves well, if a President gets out of hand we will deal with it. Bush has yet to do that (and don''t give me some Fahrenheit 911 Bullshit!)

Edit: My First "CAG's vs. mode: Politics and Other Such Controversies" Post[/quote]
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it." -Niccolo Machiavelli
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='spoo'][quote name='Firebrand']The United States is divided. Only a fool would think otherwise.[/quote]
*Sigh* Why are we divided? I am sick of hearing presidential debates two moths after an election. If we are divided it is because of people like you that won’t let bygones be bygones. As an American I Believe we police our selves well, if a President gets out of hand we will deal with it. Bush has yet to do that (and don''t give me some Fahrenheit 911 Bullshit!)

Edit: My First "CAG's vs. mode: Politics and Other Such Controversies" Post[/quote]
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it." -Niccolo Machiavelli[/quote]
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
 
[quote name='gamefreak']Firebrand who is that a picture of in your avatar? Am I seeing things right?

Welcome spoo![/quote]
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Hitler. Dictators.

Bush is a tactless fool as evidenced by the following quotes.

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." -George W. Bush

"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator," -George W. Bush

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it," -George W. Bush
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='gamefreak']Firebrand who is that a picture of in your avatar? Am I seeing things right?

Welcome spoo![/quote]
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Hitler. Dictators.

Bush is a tactless fool as evidenced by the following quotes.

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." -George W. Bush

"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator," -George W. Bush

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it," -George W. Bush[/quote]

And what is the context and sources of those quotes? On the internet it's not that hard to slap stuff around some quotes and voila, someone looks bad.
 
[quote name='Drocket']Just out of curiosity, in what context would those quotes look good?[/quote]

Actually they really don't look that bad, infact I'd say those are some of his better moments. They show a decent comprehension of the benefits of a dictatorship while also demonstrating its faults.
 
[quote name='gamefreak']He could be referring to leaving Saddam as a dictator being easier than removing him.[/quote]
Not quite.

"He often says that life would be a lot easier if it were a dictatorship. But it's not, and he's glad it's a democracy." -Joshua B. Bolten, Director of the OMB (Office of Management and Budget)
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='spoo'][quote name='Firebrand']The United States is divided. Only a fool would think otherwise.[/quote]
*Sigh* Why are we divided? I am sick of hearing presidential debates two moths after an election. If we are divided it is because of people like you that won’t let bygones be bygones. As an American I Believe we police our selves well, if a President gets out of hand we will deal with it. Bush has yet to do that (and don''t give me some Fahrenheit 911 Bullshit!)

Edit: My First "CAG's vs. mode: Politics and Other Such Controversies" Post[/quote]
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it." -Niccolo Machiavelli[/quote]

"I'm for leaving the status quo behind." -- Geoff Tate

Wow, I agree with you on something...but thinking about it more, I'm not sure I do when considering what you want to replace the status quo.
 
[quote name='Firebrand'][quote name='gamefreak']He could be referring to leaving Saddam as a dictator being easier than removing him.[/quote]
Not quite.

"He often says that life would be a lot easier if it were a dictatorship. But it's not, and he's glad it's a democracy." -Joshua B. Bolten, Director of the OMB (Office of Management and Budget)[/quote]

From that it sounds like you are intentionally misconstruing what he really meant. Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing. Go seek out some rumors on the Internets.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']...Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone finally saw the light.

This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.
- George W. Bush

Please don't kill me!
-- George W. Bush, sadistically mocking condemned killer Karla Faye Tucker, complete with whimpering voice, in an interview with Talk Magazine's Tucker Carlson

I don't think that witchcraft is a religion.
-- George W. Bush (Damned enviornmental enthusiasts. Burn 'em at the stake, Georgy!)

After all, religion has been around a lot longer than Darwinism.
-- George W. Bush (Hey Bushy, Paganism has been around alot longer then the magic carpenter :twisted: )

I urge all Texans to answer the call to serve those in need. By volunteering their time, energy or resources to helping others, adults and youngsters follow Christ's message of love and service in thought and deed.
Therefore, I, George W. Bush, Governor of Texas, do hereby proclaim June 10, 2000, Jesus Day in Texas and urge the appropriate recognition whereof,
In official recognition whereof,
I hereby affix my signature this
17th day of April, 2000.
-- George W. Bush (save me jebus!)

You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.
-- George W. Bush (Bush fail English? That's unpossible!)

I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully.
-- George W. Bush

You know I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business. But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public office.
-- George W. Bush
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe']...Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone finally saw the light. [/quote]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Any honest person will tell you that Bush has said some pretty stupid things, and you have listed some of them already. However, I do agree with some of his policies and I think people saying "Bush is an idiot" are dweebs.

If you meant by "seeing the light" that somehow now I don't like Bush and before I did, that is not an accurate statement. I don't really have a positive or negative opinion of him personally, but I have very mixed opinions on what he's done as president and overall I think he's done a pretty poor job, especially on budgetary matters.
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe']...Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone finally saw the light. [/quote]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Any honest person will tell you that Bush has said some pretty stupid things, and you have listed some of them already. However, I do agree with some of his policies and I think people saying "Bush is an idiot" are dweebs.

If you meant by "seeing the light" that somehow now I don't like Bush and before I did, that is not an accurate statement. I don't really have a positive or negative opinion of him personally, but I have very mixed opinions on what he's done as president and overall I think he's done a pretty poor job, especially on budgetary matters.[/quote]

Cool, I guess we're on the same side of the fence when judging Bush, however my judgement is harsher.

I have a hard time thinking of anything Bush has done which could not have been done better.

The man is just not intelligent. There is something to be said for the effects of a person's enviornment, had Bush been born in the inner city or a trailer-home, he would be filling my gas at the local Exxon.
 
I have a hard time thinking of anything Bush has done which could not have been done better.
Nah, Zell Miller did A MUCH, MUCH better job making a fool of himself at the RNC than Bush ever did.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']You mean like he graduated from Yale?[/quote]

I don't know whether you were being sarcastic or not, but because I've seen this type of argument posted before, I'll bite:

Do you know what it takes to graduate from Yale when your dad's a prestigious alum?

Nothing.

They won't kick you out, no matter how badly you're doing. You won't get a grade below a C-, even if you never take a test, and never show up to a class.

Bush graduating from Yale is as impressive as me taking a piss in the morning. Same with his tenure at Harvard. A C- grade Ivy League student is barely doing anything. A C- grade Ivy League student who's the son of a prestigious alum probably hasn't been doing anything school related at all.

And believe me, if you think otherwise, you have no goddamn clue about how the Ivy League system works.

seppo
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe']...Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone finally saw the light. [/quote]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Any honest person will tell you that Bush has said some pretty stupid things, and you have listed some of them already. However, I do agree with some of his policies and I think people saying "Bush is an idiot" are dweebs.

If you meant by "seeing the light" that somehow now I don't like Bush and before I did, that is not an accurate statement. I don't really have a positive or negative opinion of him personally, but I have very mixed opinions on what he's done as president and overall I think he's done a pretty poor job, especially on budgetary matters.[/quote]

Cool, I guess we're on the same side of the fence when judging Bush, however my judgement is harsher.

I have a hard time thinking of anything Bush has done which could not have been done better.

The man is just not intelligent. There is something to be said for the effects of a person's enviornment, had Bush been born in the inner city or a trailer-home, he would be filling my gas at the local Exxon.[/quote]

Just about everything anybody does could be done better. Based on previous life decisions like DUI and arrest for drunk & disorderly conduct, I'd say there is some strong evidence for at least saying Bush wasn't a very mature and intelligent young man. However, people can change and you have to respect that he had the willpower to overcome a drinking problem and quit and also that he has upheld his marriage vows. I think none of us know him personally so it's kind of hard to say whether he's a nice person or not.
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe']...Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone finally saw the light. [/quote]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Any honest person will tell you that Bush has said some pretty stupid things, and you have listed some of them already. However, I do agree with some of his policies and I think people saying "Bush is an idiot" are dweebs.

If you meant by "seeing the light" that somehow now I don't like Bush and before I did, that is not an accurate statement. I don't really have a positive or negative opinion of him personally, but I have very mixed opinions on what he's done as president and overall I think he's done a pretty poor job, especially on budgetary matters.[/quote]

Cool, I guess we're on the same side of the fence when judging Bush, however my judgement is harsher.

I have a hard time thinking of anything Bush has done which could not have been done better.

The man is just not intelligent. There is something to be said for the effects of a person's enviornment, had Bush been born in the inner city or a trailer-home, he would be filling my gas at the local Exxon.[/quote]

Just about everything anybody does could be done better. Based on previous life decisions like DUI and arrest for drunk & disorderly conduct, I'd say there is some strong evidence for at least saying Bush wasn't a very mature and intelligent young man. However, people can change and you have to respect that he had the willpower to overcome a drinking problem and quit and also that he has upheld his marriage vows. I think none of us know him personally so it's kind of hard to say whether he's a nice person or not.[/quote]

I do respect the fact that he quit drinking and has upheld his marriage vows. I really don't care whether he is a friendly guy, as long as he is a competent president.

Sobriety and marital fidelity are not the only qualifications for being a sucessful US President (In fact, marital fidelity has very little to do with running a country effectively)
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe']...Come on Firebrand, this is Bush we're talking about. Surely you can come up with something more embarassing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone finally saw the light. [/quote]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Any honest person will tell you that Bush has said some pretty stupid things, and you have listed some of them already. However, I do agree with some of his policies and I think people saying "Bush is an idiot" are dweebs.

If you meant by "seeing the light" that somehow now I don't like Bush and before I did, that is not an accurate statement. I don't really have a positive or negative opinion of him personally, but I have very mixed opinions on what he's done as president and overall I think he's done a pretty poor job, especially on budgetary matters.[/quote]

Cool, I guess we're on the same side of the fence when judging Bush, however my judgement is harsher.

I have a hard time thinking of anything Bush has done which could not have been done better.

The man is just not intelligent. There is something to be said for the effects of a person's enviornment, had Bush been born in the inner city or a trailer-home, he would be filling my gas at the local Exxon.[/quote]

Just about everything anybody does could be done better. Based on previous life decisions like DUI and arrest for drunk & disorderly conduct, I'd say there is some strong evidence for at least saying Bush wasn't a very mature and intelligent young man. However, people can change and you have to respect that he had the willpower to overcome a drinking problem and quit and also that he has upheld his marriage vows. I think none of us know him personally so it's kind of hard to say whether he's a nice person or not.[/quote]

I do respect the fact that he quit drinking and has upheld his marriage vows. I really don't care whether he is a friendly guy, as long as he is a competent president.

Sobriety and marital fidelity are not the only qualifications for being a sucessful US President (In fact, marital fidelity has very little to do with running a country effectively)[/quote]

Obviously that is true, even though lack of such can bring disgrace and discredit upon the office of the president as well as the individual, as we saw with Clinton. Of course, this was only brought up in response to people making personal attacks against someone they don't know personally, so as to provide some facts on the subject even while conceding that no one here really knows that much about it.
 
Oh, come on. The *only* reason that Clinton's infidelity brought "disgrace and discredit upon the office of the president" is because the right wing freakshow saw the opportunity to drag him through the mud over something totally meaningless and trivial, and in the process wasted millions upon millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of the President's time doing so.

seppo
 
[quote name='helava']Oh, come on. The *only* reason that Clinton's infidelity brought "disgrace and discredit upon the office of the president" is because the right wing freakshow saw the opportunity to drag him through the mud over something totally meaningless and trivial, and in the process wasted millions upon millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of the President's time doing so.

seppo[/quote]

So lying under oath is trivial??

:roll:
 
[quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='helava']Oh, come on. The *only* reason that Clinton's infidelity brought "disgrace and discredit upon the office of the president" is because the right wing freakshow saw the opportunity to drag him through the mud over something totally meaningless and trivial, and in the process wasted millions upon millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of the President's time doing so.

seppo[/quote]

So lying under oath is trivial??

:roll:[/quote]

When it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.....yes
 
I guess the law only applies in respect to the "matter at hand"...

I should have figured. :whistle2:s

[quote name='ZarathosNY'][quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='helava']Oh, come on. The *only* reason that Clinton's infidelity brought "disgrace and discredit upon the office of the president" is because the right wing freakshow saw the opportunity to drag him through the mud over something totally meaningless and trivial, and in the process wasted millions upon millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of the President's time doing so.

seppo[/quote]

So lying under oath is trivial??

:roll:[/quote]

When it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.....yes[/quote]
 
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