Ohio recount complete, Bush beats Kerry by 118k+ votes

ehh - Sounds like a difference in semantics more than anything else. I'm talking the pop-culture use of the word "conspiracy" - the one that implies a top-secret cover up.

You're not employing that usage. No big deal, and not really a good point to discuss further.

You need to work on your "than" "then" usage.

[quote name='camoor'][quote name='The_Continental']Watergate was a conspiracy for about five minutes - until (like I said) silence and competence failed to work in unison. After that, it was really more of a scandal.

Thanks for providing an example to illustrate my point. :D


[quote name='camoor'][quote name='The_Continental']Yeah - y'know, for once I'm gonna have to agree with you. It's always been my contention that all conspiracy theories are bullshit. All of 'em - no matter who's supposedly involved.
[/quote]

You tell them Continental.

After all, the Watergate conspiracy was a pack of lies, right from the start. :wink:[/quote][/quote]

Conspiracy - A combination of two or more persons to commit a criminal or unlawful act, or to commit a lawful act by criminal or unlawful means.

Since there was more then one person involved in Watergate (Nixon wasn't tiptoeing around the Watergate hotel with a mic and tape recorder), Watergate can be properly labeled as a conspiracy to this day.

Political conspiracies happen every day, it's only the stupid conspirators (like G Gordon Liddy) that expose the crime. A reasonable person can't possibly believe that Clinton was 100% innocent of all of the conspiracies he was accused of, or that all of the campaign money that Rove spent was 100% legitimate.

Oh yeah, and sorry about torpedoing your "point" :p[/quote]
 
Day two of the Boxer Rebellion - I have yet to see one of these "highlights."

How long must I wait?

[quote name='ZarathosNY']The one thing that it will do is highlight the various acts of voting suppression and disenfranchisement that went on in Ohio.[/quote]
 
I saw a pack of moveon wolves when I went to vote. 18-22 year old overfed hippies trying to tell me how oppressed I was (they must have been trying to bank on my dark skin). They must have been pretty oppressed not to have to be at work or at school on a Tuesday afternoon.

[quote name='Ruined'][quote name='ZarathosNY']The one thing that it will do is highlight the various acts of voting suppression and disenfranchisement that went on in Ohio.[/quote]

I assume you mean the ones by MoveOn.org using intimidation by sitting at the polls? Maybe there should be one for Wisconsin too where the 20 Republican voter vans had their tires slashed the morning of the election by Democrat activists?

It's also humorous how the head of the Democrat party was talking about how the election was fair and relatively-problem free on TV during election day when the exit polls were indicating Kerry was going to win by quite a bit. Of course, after he lost, it all becomes rigged! :lol:[/quote]
 
[quote name='The_Continental']ehh - Sounds like a difference in semantics more than anything else. I'm talking the pop-culture use of the word "conspiracy" - the one that implies a top-secret cover up.

You're not employing that usage. No big deal, and not really a good point to discuss further. [/quote]

Are you actually implying that there was no government cover-up of the Watergate scandal? Really?!?

The cover-up was what caused all the trouble. Nixon erased the tapes. It's the government cover-up that all other cover-ups will be measured against.
 
[quote name='The_Continental']I saw a pack of moveon wolves when I went to vote. 18-22 year old overfed hippies trying to tell me how oppressed I was (they must have been trying to bank on my dark skin). They must have been pretty oppressed not to have to be at work or at school on a Tuesday afternoon.

[quote name='Ruined'][quote name='ZarathosNY']The one thing that it will do is highlight the various acts of voting suppression and disenfranchisement that went on in Ohio.[/quote]

I assume you mean the ones by MoveOn.org using intimidation by sitting at the polls? Maybe there should be one for Wisconsin too where the 20 Republican voter vans had their tires slashed the morning of the election by Democrat activists?

It's also humorous how the head of the Democrat party was talking about how the election was fair and relatively-problem free on TV during election day when the exit polls were indicating Kerry was going to win by quite a bit. Of course, after he lost, it all becomes rigged! :lol:[/quote][/quote]

And don't forget it was MoveOn.org members that threw away the voter registration cards of Democrats in Nevada... no wait... that was Republicans.

What about the MoveOn-ers who intimidated black voters by telling them they needed photo ID and threatening them with voter fraud?... No, again, that was Republicans.

I know the MoveOn bastards stormed the Florida recount offices when they were counting hanging chads... Dammit, that was the GOP as well.

I bet the CEO of Diebold (maker of electronic voting machines) is a member of MoveOn because he promised to deliver Ohio's votes for Ker... oh, this is embarrassing. He promised the votes for Bush.

Maybe MoveOn's not the problem...
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']It's ironically stupid that not a single Democratic Senator would give his signature to allow members of the House to discuss the 2000 Election which was much mroe questionable.

But now in 2004, though it's a close election it is clear that President Bush legitimately won outright fair and square, they get a Senators signature to discuss it on the floor of the senate.

It boggles the mind.[/quote]

I'm shocked no one on this board among the ultra-liberals has flamed you yet for that, even though they continue posting all the conspiracy theories available.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']
Maybe MoveOn's not the problem...[/quote]

I would say that ALL organizations that pulled shady stuff during the election, on BOTH sides, are the problem(s). This inlcudes the DNC and the GOP.
 
[quote name='Backlash'][quote name='MrBadExample']
Maybe MoveOn's not the problem...[/quote]

I would say that ALL organizations that pulled shady stuff during the election, on BOTH sides, are the problem(s). This inlcudes the DNC and the GOP.[/quote]

I agree with you. I just posted to make the point that for every one of the allegations about MoveOn there are several (and I would say, more serious) allegations against Republicans.

I believe any voter tampering is bad. But I also don't think you can equate tire slashing with trashing voter registration cards. The first is a nuisance and the second is a federal crime.
 
Nope, I'm not implying that at all. In fact, I'm not making any "implications" at all. I am saying very directly:

Most, if not all, conspiracy *theories* are bullshit because the harmonious coordination of silence and competence between tens, and sometimes hundreds of people is impossible to acheive.

That is why the watergate cover-up failed, Ted Kennedy is widely thought of as a murderer, and R. Kelly got caught peeing on a 14 year old.

Shall I explain it a third time?

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='The_Continental']ehh - Sounds like a difference in semantics more than anything else. I'm talking the pop-culture use of the word "conspiracy" - the one that implies a top-secret cover up.

You're not employing that usage. No big deal, and not really a good point to discuss further. [/quote]

Are you actually implying that there was no government cover-up of the Watergate scandal? Really?!?

The cover-up was what caused all the trouble. Nixon erased the tapes. It's the government cover-up that all other cover-ups will be measured against.[/quote]
 
And since we're talking about bullshit, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on allegations that agents of either the DNC or GOP engaged in any voter intimidation or fraud.

Voter intimidation and fraud are illegal, yet not one, NOT ONE arrest has ever been made of a DNC or GOP employee engaging in it.

Are we really to believe that hundreds of thousands of people were defrauded across the country yet law enforcement can't find a single party affiliated person who engaged in it?

Bullshit.

Yes, there were moveon volunteers at my precinct that were acting like pricks, but I'd hardly call that intimidation.

How about this, I'll purchase a DS for any CAGer who forwards information that leads to the arrest of a DNC or GOP member who engaged in voter fraud.

Get to work.

Also - people should have to produce ID to vote. That is really a no brainer.

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='Backlash'][quote name='MrBadExample']
Maybe MoveOn's not the problem...[/quote]

I would say that ALL organizations that pulled shady stuff during the election, on BOTH sides, are the problem(s). This inlcudes the DNC and the GOP.[/quote]

I agree with you. I just posted to make the point that for every one of the allegations about MoveOn there are several (and I would say, more serious) allegations against Republicans.

I believe any voter tampering is bad. But I also don't think you can equate tire slashing with trashing voter registration cards. The first is a nuisance and the second is a federal crime.[/quote]
 
[quote name='The_Continental']And since we're talking about bullshit, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on allegations that agents of either the DNC or GOP engaged in any voter intimidation or fraud.

Voter intimidation and fraud are illegal, yet not one, NOT ONE arrest has ever been made of a DNC or GOP employee engaging in it.

Are we really to believe that hundreds of thousands of people were defrauded across the country yet law enforcement can't find a single party affiliated person who engaged in it?

Bullshit.

Yes, there were moveon volunteers at my precinct that were acting like pricks, but I'd hardly call that intimidation.

How about this, I'll purchase a DS for any CAGer who forwards information that leads to the arrest of a DNC or GOP member who engaged in voter fraud.

Get to work. [/quote]

They don't have to be official members of either party to make voter fraud un-American.

[quote name='The_Continental']Also - people should have to produce ID to vote. That is really a no brainer. [/quote]

But the law currently does not require photo ID and to tell people that it does in order to turn them away is slimey at best.
 
I never said the GOP and DNC participated in voter fraud (though I believe some private organizations did) - I said they pulled some shady stuff. Misleading politics, shady funding, tons of crap like that.
 
Alright then - produce information that leads to arrests of non-party affiliated members. If it's as rampant as you make it out to be, that shouldn't be too tough.

givin' a DS away on this one ...

I have yet to hear of a spicific case - just generalizations like "thousands of minorities were intimidated in Ohio" - by who? The Mysterious Intimidator that disappears into thin air?!

Bullshit!

Just because some moveon punks told me that voting for Bush was stupid because I have brown skin doesn't mean I was intimidated.
------------------------

Also - ID laws vary by state. Some require an ID, some do not. That needs to be made uniform. ID's should be required by all states.

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='The_Continental']And since we're talking about bullshit, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on allegations that agents of either the DNC or GOP engaged in any voter intimidation or fraud.

Voter intimidation and fraud are illegal, yet not one, NOT ONE arrest has ever been made of a DNC or GOP employee engaging in it.

Are we really to believe that hundreds of thousands of people were defrauded across the country yet law enforcement can't find a single party affiliated person who engaged in it?

Bullshit.

Yes, there were moveon volunteers at my precinct that were acting like pricks, but I'd hardly call that intimidation.

How about this, I'll purchase a DS for any CAGer who forwards information that leads to the arrest of a DNC or GOP member who engaged in voter fraud.

Get to work. [/quote]

They don't have to be official members of either party to make voter fraud un-American.

[quote name='The_Continental']Also - people should have to produce ID to vote. That is really a no brainer. [/quote]

But the law currently does not require photo ID and to tell people that it does in order to turn them away is slimey at best.[/quote]
 
[quote name='The_Continental']Alright then - produce information that leads to arrests of non-party affiliated members. If it's as rampant as you make it out to be, that shouldn't be too tough.

givin' a DS away on this one ...
[/quote]

Here's one for ya:

Former Bush Campaign Official Indicted

Wednesday December 1, 2004 9:16 PM

By ERIK STETSON
Associated Press Writer

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - President Bush's former New England campaign chairman was indicted Thursday on charges he took part in the jamming of the Democrats' get-out-the-vote phone lines on Election Day 2002.

James Tobin, 44, stepped down Oct. 15 after the Democrats accused him of involvement. At the time, he called the allegations ``without merit.''

In 2002, six phone lines run by the Democrats and the Manchester firefighters union were tied up for 1 hours by 800 computer-generated hang-up calls.

Federal prosecutors said Tobin and other Republicans hired a company to make the calls to disrupt the organizations' get-out-the-vote efforts.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to that story and more. Most are still under investigation.
http://www.miamedia.com/news/archive.news.2004-12.html
 
Explain to me how a DoS is an example of voter intimidation...

Also, what election are we talking about here?

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='The_Continental']Alright then - produce information that leads to arrests of non-party affiliated members. If it's as rampant as you make it out to be, that shouldn't be too tough.

givin' a DS away on this one ...
[/quote]

Here's one for ya:

Former Bush Campaign Official Indicted

Wednesday December 1, 2004 9:16 PM

By ERIK STETSON
Associated Press Writer

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - President Bush's former New England campaign chairman was indicted Thursday on charges he took part in the jamming of the Democrats' get-out-the-vote phone lines on Election Day 2002.

James Tobin, 44, stepped down Oct. 15 after the Democrats accused him of involvement. At the time, he called the allegations ``without merit.''

In 2002, six phone lines run by the Democrats and the Manchester firefighters union were tied up for 1 hours by 800 computer-generated hang-up calls.

Federal prosecutors said Tobin and other Republicans hired a company to make the calls to disrupt the organizations' get-out-the-vote efforts.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to that story and more. Most are still under investigation.
http://www.miamedia.com/news/archive.news.2004-12.html[/quote]
 
Well, someone slashed those Repubs' tires. Just because they didn't arrest anyone doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's bad mojo.
 
[quote name='The_Continental']Explain to me how a DoS is an example of voter intimidation...[/quote]

I never said it was intimidation. It is slimey, underhanded, corrupt and illegal and it was committed by a GOP campaign chairman.
 
Actually, according to your article it was committed by an ex-campaign chairman.

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='The_Continental']Explain to me how a DoS is an example of voter intimidation...[/quote]

I never said it was intimidation. It is slimey, underhanded, corrupt and illegal and it was committed by a GOP campaign chairman.[/quote]
 
Again - people being pricks doesn't necessarily equal voter intimidation. Sure, those Repubs were probably annoyed at the dems "pie throwing" level of political discourse, but it's not like they were actually being frightened into not voting.

[quote name='Backlash']Well, someone slashed those Repubs' tires. Just because they didn't arrest anyone doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's bad mojo.[/quote]
 
I think the problem is you're trying to debate two people who said different things :)

I was never talking about intimidation - I was just talking about under-handed shennanigans (I don't use that word often enough).

PS: We want trivia!!
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']What about the MoveOn-ers who intimidated black voters by telling them they needed photo ID and threatening them with voter fraud?... No, again, that was Republicans.[/quote]

Now this is a classic contradiction. You are complaining about voting flaws/fraud yet you think it is too much to ask for a photo ID card when someone votes to make sure they are who they say there are? Need a photo ID to buy a bottle of Jack Daniels, but to vote for the president and prove you are who you say you are? INTIMIDATION! :lol:

As for your other points, they are either unsubstantiated or taken out of context.
 
[quote name='Ruined'][quote name='MrBadExample']What about the MoveOn-ers who intimidated black voters by telling them they needed photo ID and threatening them with voter fraud?... No, again, that was Republicans.[/quote]

Now this is a classic contradiction. You are complaining about voting flaws/fraud yet you think it is too much to ask for a photo ID card when someone votes to make sure they are who they say there are? Need a photo ID to buy a bottle of Jack Daniels, but to vote for the president and prove you are who you say you are? INTIMIDATION! :lol:

As for your other points, they are either unsubstantiated or taken out of context.[/quote]

I never said a photo ID was too much to ask for. I said it is currently not required by law and to tell people otherwise is fraudulent.
 
[quote name='The_Continental']Actually, according to your article it was committed by an ex-campaign chairman.[/quote]

Read carefully. The DoS attack happened in the 2002 election. He didn't step down as chairman until October of 2004 after the shit hit the fan.
 
I stand corrected.

[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='The_Continental']Actually, according to your article it was committed by an ex-campaign chairman.[/quote]

Read carefully. The DoS attack happened in the 2002 election. He didn't step down as chairman until October of 2004 after the shit hit the fan.[/quote]
 
I do think it's funny that many places where young people and minorities that 90% vote democratic had to wait in line. The old people aka Republicans don't have things to do, but I couldn't wait in a line for 7 hours to go vote, so I wouldn't have.

That seems to be VERY fishy to me.
 
[quote name='David85']I do think it's funny that many places where young people and minorities that 90% vote democratic had to wait in line. The old people aka Republicans don't have things to do, but I couldn't wait in a line for 7 hours to go vote, so I wouldn't have.

That seems to be VERY fishy to me.[/quote]

Most of the places where minority voters had to wait in line were in big cities, big cities that have Democratic mayors and city councils. Why didn't these people buy more voting machines if there weren't enough? And why are they not blamed for the problem, but instead it's a big Republican conspiracy? It reminds me of the butterfly ballot, approved by a Democrat but blamed by conspiracy theorists on Republicans. Is there some law in Ohio passed and enforced by Republicans that prevented these Democratic politicians from buying more voting machines that I don't know of?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top