Orange Box, Don't Buy Internationally!

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xGunCrazyx

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http://consumerist.com/consumer/drm/valve-deactivating-customers-who-bought-orange-box-internationally-314690.php

i don't know where the thread went, but i believe there was a pretty big one about buying the orange box from a thai online retailer that worked in US

anyways, hoping to help people avoid getting into problems with steam
i think the game was going for $20 for cds and $18 for key :S

EDIT:
Here is the post on this deal (now in the deal graveyard):
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155662
 
yeah the reason i posted is because i think the thread was up to 200 posts here
anyways, i think it's BS that they are deactivating it
money down the drain :(
 
But, isn't that region, you know, known for piracy of copyrighted works? So, it makes sense that they would disallow it(if that's what youre saying). I mean, really, how can they sell a game which JUST came out for $20 for cds and $18 for a key, unless it were an illegal copy?

Plus, I thought selling keys to games was illegal in and of itself, no?
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']But, isn't that region, you know, known for piracy of copyrighted works? So, it makes sense that they would disallow it(if that's what youre saying). I mean, really, how can they sell a game which JUST came out for $20 for cds and $18 for a key, unless it were an illegal copy?

Plus, I thought selling keys to games was illegal in and of itself, no?[/quote]

i believe it was a reputable seller in thailand
anyways, i bought mine the "legal" way from Steam
the orange box is well worth the $45 i paid

the thailand seller was the true cheapass way to go for some though
i think it mainly sucks since even when they buy a new copy,
they can't use it on steam seeing that the old one still shows up on Steam :S
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']ROFL. Cocheese so called this.[/quote]
Actually, Cocheese was originally saying not to trust Zest b/c it was an unknown (unknown to him that is) international company. Turns out, zest was legit. A pissed off FW member e-mailed the link of the thread to Valve and they uninstalled all Thai copies of their pc games from our computers. If it wasn't for that fact, we would all still be playing Orange Box right now. Zest as a company is fine. They replied quickly to e-mails, provided great prices and refunded the money spent for the Orange Box (no chargeback needed as was implied by Cocheese).

Edit: I forgot to mention that I was playing the Orange Box up until Valve shut it off. We were sold legit CD Keys. I can't believe somebody would go out of their way to e-mail Valve LOL :lol:
 
[quote name='doraemonkerpal']Actually, Cocheese was originally saying not to trust Zest b/c it was an unknown (unknown to him that is) international company. Turns out, zest was legit. A pissed off FW member e-mailed the link of the thread to Valve and they uninstalled all Thai copies of their pc games from our computers. If it wasn't for that fact, we would all still be playing Orange Box right now. Zest as a company is fine. They replied quickly to e-mails, provided great prices and refunded the money spent for the Orange Box (no chargeback needed as was implied by Cocheese).

Edit: I forgot to mention that I was playing the Orange Box up until Valve shut it off. We were sold legit CD Keys. I can't believe somebody would go out of their way to e-mail Valve LOL :lol:[/quote]

Still, I remember him specifically getting irate with people in that thread. It was quite amusing at the time. I bought my copy at a B&M store ($34.99).
 
Don't just buy at Russia or Thailand, that's all. It's legal to buy it from any other countries according to Steam.
 
Wow, Valve are being huge dooshbags here. They disable your game without warning, when it was the Thai retailer who was at fault, not purchasers of the game. And now when people who have had their OB disabled go and buy another copy here in the US and put that CD key in, it doesnt work, cos the old Thai CD key is still in there.

Way to go Valve fucking your customers! :applause:

======================================================================================
Customer (xxx xxxxxxxx) 10/20/2007 11:07 AM
Hello my cd-key was invalidated and game removed
i get a steam error
Steam - Game unavailable
Team Fortress 2 is not available in your territory
ok so i contacted retailer to get a refund
and purchased a new copy at a local Circuit City here in Tacoma
but when i enter new cd-key says game is already installed log in to steam
but of course that doesn't work and takes me back to
Steam - Game unavailable
Team Fortress 2 is not available in your territory
so i guess i need the supposedly invalid cd-key removed
so i can enter my new one
thanks
======================================================================================
Response (DougV) 10/22/2007 05:06 PM
Games purchased in Thailand or Russia can only be played from those countries. If you purchased a game from Thailand or Russia and you do not live in one of those countries, you need to contact the seller for a refund.
======================================================================================
Customer (xxx xxxxxxx) 10/22/2007 05:37 PM
yes did you even read what i said?
and do what i asked you to do
guess not​
Click to expand...

​
 
I think what's worse was the fact that the operators removed the complaint topic as if to pretend there was nothing ever wrong.
 
I believe that "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is." applies well to this situation. I kinda feel bad for those who lost their games, but I can understand why Valve did it.
 
Yeah, Valve is a total ass for not letting you scam the system and buy codes internationally.

They spent 5-7 years making these 5 excellent games, the least you could do is pay the $40 people are paying for the PC version.

Christ.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Yeah, Valve is a total ass for not letting you scam the system and buy codes internationally.

They spent 5-7 years making these 5 excellent games, the least you could do is pay the $40 people are paying for the PC version.

Christ.[/quote]
The problem lies within the fact that they were buying LEGIT copies. Not bootlegs. Not hacks. While it's obvious one shouldn't trust an outside source, you can't rule out the idea that not many people knew the sellers weren't given permission to sell the games and keys.
 
Would people feel the same way if a store broke the street date on a particular game, Microsoft or Sony found out about it and made those games that got sold early non-working forever? How can the consumer be blamed in these cases?
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']There's "cheapassgamer" and then there's "unscrupulous-ass-gamer". I'll go ahead and pay the $45 and sleep better at night, thanks.[/quote]

Yeah, we're American and as such deserve to pay much higher prices for the same exact product!

...or something

:roll:
 
To add,

People who had other legit games purchased in the US had those games disabled too and have to wait for valve to answer its backlog of support tickets to get their US bought games working again.
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Would people feel the same way if a store broke the street date on a particular game, Microsoft or Sony found out about it and made those games that got sold early non-working forever? How can the consumer be blamed in these cases?[/quote]
Agreed. The consumers shouldn't be punished for purchasing legit games/keys from a source they most likely had no idea wasn't allowed to sell them. Most confirmed the sellers were legit, but weren't aware they weren't allowed to sell the Orange Box.

I'd understand if they bought hacks or illegal copies, but not legit ones.
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Would people feel the same way if a store broke the street date on a particular game, Microsoft or Sony found out about it and made those games that got sold early non-working forever? How can the consumer be blamed in these cases?[/QUOTE]

That wouldn't happen because the store would be selling legally licenced copies for that country. People should know better than to buy retail software from another country, especially software that has to be activated online. For any product, if you want all the rights you have in country X, you need to buy in country X...if you buy it in country Z, don't expect country X rules and regulations apply....in most cases, you will be completely out of luck....be it a candy bar, camera or car.
 
[quote name='K_G']That wouldn't happen because the store would be selling legally licenced copies for that country. People should know better than to buy retail software from another country, especially software that has to be activated online. For any product, if you want all the rights you have in country X, you need to buy in country X...if you buy it in country Z, don't expect country X rules and regulations apply....in most cases, you will be completely out of luck....be it a candy bar, camera or car.[/QUOTE]

I understand the legality, but is this common knowledge? Hardly. I think it would be safe to assume that if you can purchase it and it works for days or weeks in your country then you are okay. Steam would have done better to give people a slap on the wrist and chalk it up to a lesson learned.
 
[quote name='K_G']For any product, if you want all the rights you have in country X, you need to buy in country X...if you buy it in country Z, don't expect country X rules and regulations apply....in most cases, you will be completely out of luck....be it a candy bar, camera or car.[/quote]

Oh noes - maybe my candy bar won't work!

Serves me right for buying it in Switzerland - sure I got a deal but I deserve to have a non-functioning Toblerone because I didn't follow international rules and regulations written by some bureaucrat who doesn't understand the concept of capitalism.

Toblerone.jpg
 
[quote name='K_G']That wouldn't happen because the store would be selling legally licenced copies for that country. People should know better than to buy retail software from another country, especially software that has to be activated online. For any product, if you want all the rights you have in country X, you need to buy in country X...if you buy it in country Z, don't expect country X rules and regulations apply....in most cases, you will be completely out of luck....be it a candy bar, camera or car.[/quote]

I think your giving the average Joe consumer too much credit.

And I fully understand what your saying, but Valve didnt need to compound the problem by not letting these consumers register new copies that they've since ran out and bought at big box stores.

If they are going to ban/disable foreign bought cd keys, at least remove those keys fully from the users Steam account so that they can buy a legit version to play. Now some users are out $70+ and they still cant play OB.
 
My question is - if you don't buy orange box internationally, where are you going to buy it. AFAIK Scotland is the only country where the carpet matches the drapes.
 
[quote name='camoor']My question is - if you don't buy orange box internationally, where are you going to buy it. AFAIK Scotland is the only country where the carpet matches the drapes.[/quote]

I see wot yew did thar...:lol:
 
Oh noes - maybe my candy bar won't work!

Serves me right for buying it in Switzerland - sure I got a deal but I deserve to have a non-functioning Toblerone because I didn't follow international rules and regulations written by some bureaucrat who doesn't understand the concept of capitalism.
Click to expand...

Well, there is a reason why Kinder eggs are not available in the US even though they are available in most other countries in the world....If you smuggle one into the US and your kid chokes on the toy, don't expect to sue Kinder for negligence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_Surprise


Puffa469

I think your giving the average Joe consumer too much credit.
Click to expand...

Somehow I don't think the average Joe consumer is thinking, "yep, I needs to be ordering me some software from Thailand today". Common sense sometimes need to be purchased through expensive lessons.
 
[quote name='K_G']Somehow I don't think the average Joe consumer is thinking, "yep, I needs to be ordering me some software from Thailand today". Common sense sometimes need to be purchased through expensive lessons.[/quote]
That's like saying anyone who orders the Orange Box from Play-Asia and has their copy deactivated, it's their fault because P-A is based in Hong Kong and they chose not to pay retail price even though they were buying LEGIT copies.
 
[quote name='K_G']Somehow I don't think the average Joe consumer is thinking, "yep, I needs to be ordering me some software from Thailand today". Common sense sometimes need to be purchased through expensive lessons.[/quote]

I think the average Joe doesnt know, or care where the website is located. Its a website, its all the same, all he wants is the cheapest price.

I'd order my games from the moon if they had the cheapest prices. Shipping would probably kill the deal tho. ;)
 
[quote name='camoor']My question is - if you don't buy orange box internationally, where are you going to buy it. AFAIK Scotland is the only country where the carpet matches the drapes.[/QUOTE]
Don't you mean Ireland...? :)
 
[quote name='Tsukento']That's like saying anyone who orders the Orange Box from Play-Asia and has their copy deactivated, it's their fault because P-A is based in Hong Kong and they chose not to pay retail price even though they were buying LEGIT copies.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it should be telling you something that Play-Asia doesn't sell the PC version of the Orange Box, only the 360 and the PS3 versions (which are subject to different licensing rules and also do not require online activation) And its not like Play Asia would refund someone's money if they bought the Japanese version of Blue Dragon because they thought it would run on their US 360.

Sometimes something cheap is a deal...sometimes it is just a con...othertimes it may be cheap for very specific reasons...knowledge of those specific reasons would often show why it isn't actually a deal at all.

And, really, it is not like folks can't stick it to the Thai outlet selling this by complaining to their credit card companies...
 
[quote name='K_G']Maybe it should be telling you something that Play-Asia doesn't sell the PC version of the Orange Box, only the 360 and the PS3 versions (which are subject to different licensing rules and also do not require online activation) And its not like Play Asia would refund someone's money if they bought the Japanese version of Blue Dragon because they thought it would run on their US 360.[/quote]

That's the thing though...How many people on this site has done their research, discovered that SOME asian 360 do work on US systems, and bought the games from play-asia? I thought that quite a few people have been doing that. And there's nothing illegal about it. By Valve's logic, Cheapy should have been ordering every 360 game from the US all along, but I know he's bought a few Japanese games that worked on his US system.

I think Valve needs to learn that there's more to eCommerce than ripping off the consumer.

BTW, the old thread is in the Deal Graveyard now.
 
The part that bothers me is that Steam has been around for how long now? It's not like all of a sudden someone at Valve came up with the notion "hey! We have a security loophole here, we need to disable the use of international keys on steam accounts" You'd think that they would have thought of this beforehand.

I just think it's interesting that this disabling only occured right after the release of OB.

Does anyone know if these limitations had been outlined in either the EULAs or any other source of Valve/Steam information prior to the disabling of the keys? If there was no way a user could get this information prior to purchasing, how were they supposed to know that it was not allowed?

Ruahrc
 
[quote name='camoor']Yeah, we're American and as such deserve to pay much higher prices for the same exact product!

...or something

:roll:[/QUOTE]

Well said my friend, well said.
 
Valve handled the situation poorly. I have no problem if valve banning the thai software from being played on a computer outside thialand, as long as it is on the retail software box. That is the real issue, as a consumer who buys it thinking it will work when they take their computer back to the US it will work has no warning.

I know most of the orders were US people who just had the clerk open the box and send them the cd key, as long as it is in writing in the user agreement on the box (even if they didn't choose to have it shipped to them) I see nothing wrong with what valve did.

If no mention is made that the package that the game can only be played in thailand, then Valve is clearly in the wrong. Valve also should have come up with a system to allow them to repurchase the US version of the game before they went ahead and disabled the thai cd keys.

I feel most sorry for the Australians who when to a local store, unknowingly purchased the thai version, then were caught in this situation. They are the innocents who got hurt most of all from this.
 
This kind of stuff is the reason I never ever want to see all digital distribution from publishers for console sales. I want my physical copy that isn't at the mercy of DRM rights, software keys, etc. where a company can basically delete your copy at the push of a button.
 
Valve may be handling it poorly, but I doubt they really care about that perception. The majority of their US customers purchased the game from a domestic outlet, and as being one of those people I really can't say that my opinion of Valve has changed any from this incident.

I've never been a big fan of the way they do business, but when people start purchasing software for 18-25 dollars from a source that they question, they don't have anyone to blame but themselves. Looking over the old threads on the subject, people are basically daring Valve to do something about it and chuckling about the suckers who paid full price in some cases. Considering it only takes one jealous person/overzealous intellectual property nut to ruin the whole thing for everyone involved, those types of deals are only worth doing when they're a well kept secret.
 
[quote name='doomgaze_86']Some people on FW are saying that their Zest and Luckito keys are working again after the Steam update... Is it true?[/quote]

Yes, it took a while for my update to load, but it asked to restart Steam and mine works again. I plan to email Zest to see what to do about my refund. It'd feel wrong getting the game entirely for free. (even though we all had to jump through flaming hoops)
 
Good for you... Unfortunately the key was removed from my account so I can't reactivate it... I seriously hope this wasn't some kind of fluke...
 
[quote name='Ruahrc']]Does anyone know if these limitations had been outlined in either the EULAs or any other source of Valve/Steam information prior to the disabling of the keys? If there was no way a user could get this information prior to purchasing, how were they supposed to know that it was not allowed?[/QUOTE]

This is really the only thing to debate. Did Valve include information on the packaging stating that the game would only work in the territory in which it was sold? If the answer to that question is "yes," then the entire debacle is the fault of the consumer.

It is the consumer's responsibility to read and understand any warnings or restrictions on the packaging before making a purchase. If the packaging explicitly stated that the game would only work in Thailand or Russia or wherever it was intended to work, it's the consumer's problem for not heeding the warning.

And purchasing the product online is no excuse for ignorance of the packaging's warnings. If the consumer can't get a straight answer from the retailer as to the information on the packaging when buying sight unseen, buying it is unwise and the consumer is responsible for any complications arising out of ignorance of the package's warnings. If the retailer assures the consumer that the product will work but in actuality it does not, then it's the retailer's responsibility to compensate the consumer.

The excuse that these Thai copies are "legit" is not valid if the packaging states any territorial restrictions.
 
[quote name='doomgaze_86']Good for you... Unfortunately the key was removed from my account so I can't reactivate it... I seriously hope this wasn't some kind of fluke...[/quote]

Same for me. Oh well, hopefully they don't pull the plug on you guys a second time (fingers crossed). :)
 
[quote name='AlanSaysYo']This is really the only thing to debate. Did Valve include information on the packaging stating that the game would only work in the territory in which it was sold? If the answer to that question is "yes," then the entire debacle is the fault of the consumer. [/quote]

I could be wrong, but I think someone on FW actaully ordered the retail package from Zest, and found that it was identical to the US box, but with a different publisher logo and no mention of regional locks.
 
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