Our friend Kaz: "I wish (Microsoft) would come up with some strategies of their own."
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MarioColbert
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Uh... I don't care who stole from whom, that is a moot point, but I do care that PR assholes manage to get away with statements that are clearly false. The main reason why Reggie is as popular as he is, is because his hate and lying are minimized in comparison to his competition.
My question is: why is it that no "video game media" outlet jump on this? We have access to an army of overweight assholes that eat doritos and talk shit all day, so I don't see why that can not be applied with actually getting to interview some of those PR gods and defeating their self-proclaimed prophecy that their shit "don't stink."
Don't get me wrong, this discussion was a really good one, but bitching about it on a forum gets us nowhere (well, maybe a little bit closer to being amused). We need a video-game Colbert Report. Because, despite Nintendo's arrogant claims, there is simply not enough of kicking ass OR taking names. And as Colbert report has shown, when people need all the publicity they can get, they would be more than willing to come to ANY show out there INCLUDING the one that will ultimately embarrass them for all they may be worth.
My question is: why is it that no "video game media" outlet jump on this? We have access to an army of overweight assholes that eat doritos and talk shit all day, so I don't see why that can not be applied with actually getting to interview some of those PR gods and defeating their self-proclaimed prophecy that their shit "don't stink."
Don't get me wrong, this discussion was a really good one, but bitching about it on a forum gets us nowhere (well, maybe a little bit closer to being amused). We need a video-game Colbert Report. Because, despite Nintendo's arrogant claims, there is simply not enough of kicking ass OR taking names. And as Colbert report has shown, when people need all the publicity they can get, they would be more than willing to come to ANY show out there INCLUDING the one that will ultimately embarrass them for all they may be worth.
BKPartisan
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*cough*E32006*cough*
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Because there is no such thing as bad publisity.[/quote]
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Because there is no such thing as bad publisity.[/quote]
BKPartisan
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To me, this is a completely mute point. A hard drive is hardly an innovation to be proud of. Especially if you are Microsoft, a company who has dealt with personal computers throughout their entire history, a hard drive is sort of a given. It's a component that, once it became cheap enough to put in, was destined to be there. Kind of like the disc format as opposed to cartridges. It would be kind of like opening a business in a tropical climate and installing an air conditioning system, then having your compeditors say "HEY, WE HAD A/C FIRST OMFG!" Seriously, once a core technology comes out, put that shit in there and consider it neutral.
Now, for real innovation, let's talk about the motion stuff in the Wii. Those sensors may not be new to the world, and they may not be completely new to video games. The innovation comes in completely rethinking the way that those technologies are used to create a different gaming experience. Running with the concept of the hard drive, one might say that it wasn't the hard drive that counted as the innovation on the XBox, but the way it was used to do things like custom soundtracks. I know that that feature alone was responsible for most of my enjoyment with Burnout 3.
[quote name='dratsacras']Sony talked up 'future hard drive expandability' back when they were attempting to sabotage Dreamcast sales, a year before they launched PS2. What they ultimately released was an obvious disappointment in terms of integration to the system but to think that it never would have occurred to Sony to put a HD in had Xbox not come along is taking a short walk around history to make a presumed point.
You can't know that. They had a linux kit out (for about a week) with a hard drive, they had lofty ambitions about PS2 becoming a DVD recorder/PVR (the PSX, an idea about 4 years premature for the market) as well as the standard HDD (released in Japan with, of all things, Bomberman Online.)
Sony designed the hardware with hard drive expandability in mind from the very beginning. What you're saying about "if Xbox never existed..." is moving the goalposts. This was about Sony "copying" Microsoft by adding a hard drive. I say the hard drive was on Sony's list all along, in one form or another.[/quote]
Now, for real innovation, let's talk about the motion stuff in the Wii. Those sensors may not be new to the world, and they may not be completely new to video games. The innovation comes in completely rethinking the way that those technologies are used to create a different gaming experience. Running with the concept of the hard drive, one might say that it wasn't the hard drive that counted as the innovation on the XBox, but the way it was used to do things like custom soundtracks. I know that that feature alone was responsible for most of my enjoyment with Burnout 3.
[quote name='dratsacras']Sony talked up 'future hard drive expandability' back when they were attempting to sabotage Dreamcast sales, a year before they launched PS2. What they ultimately released was an obvious disappointment in terms of integration to the system but to think that it never would have occurred to Sony to put a HD in had Xbox not come along is taking a short walk around history to make a presumed point.
You can't know that. They had a linux kit out (for about a week) with a hard drive, they had lofty ambitions about PS2 becoming a DVD recorder/PVR (the PSX, an idea about 4 years premature for the market) as well as the standard HDD (released in Japan with, of all things, Bomberman Online.)
Sony designed the hardware with hard drive expandability in mind from the very beginning. What you're saying about "if Xbox never existed..." is moving the goalposts. This was about Sony "copying" Microsoft by adding a hard drive. I say the hard drive was on Sony's list all along, in one form or another.[/quote]
Kfoster1979
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[quote name='MarioColbert']
My question is: why is it that no "video game media" outlet jump on this? We have access to an army of overweight assholes that eat doritos and talk shit all day, so I don't see why that can not be applied with actually getting to interview some of those PR gods and defeating their self-proclaimed prophecy that their shit "don't stink."
[/QUOTE]
Well its not just the "Gaming Media" journalism is dead in America , we tout Free speech and Freedom of the press but never use it. All of it is partisan hacks and fanboys who sell out. But I agree like the few journalist that are still willing to speak out and give a unbiased opinion the gaming industry needs someone who can just tell it like it is past all the PR.
My question is: why is it that no "video game media" outlet jump on this? We have access to an army of overweight assholes that eat doritos and talk shit all day, so I don't see why that can not be applied with actually getting to interview some of those PR gods and defeating their self-proclaimed prophecy that their shit "don't stink."
[/QUOTE]
Well its not just the "Gaming Media" journalism is dead in America , we tout Free speech and Freedom of the press but never use it. All of it is partisan hacks and fanboys who sell out. But I agree like the few journalist that are still willing to speak out and give a unbiased opinion the gaming industry needs someone who can just tell it like it is past all the PR.
BKPartisan
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It's not dead, it's commercialized. And it's not that we don't use free speech, we are using it right now. The problem is that the voice with the money to be flashy enough to be loudest, is the one that is heard. When you are lazy and there is some dude screaming lies and advertisements in your ear all day, you're probably not going to feel like going out and researching it for yourself.
[quote name='Kfoster1979']Well its not just the "Gaming Media" journalism is dead in America , we tout Free speech and Freedom of the press but never use it. All of it is partisan hacks and fanboys who sell out. But I agree like the few journalist that are still willing to speak out and give a unbiased opinion the gaming industry needs someone who can just tell it like it is past all the PR.[/quote]
[quote name='Kfoster1979']Well its not just the "Gaming Media" journalism is dead in America , we tout Free speech and Freedom of the press but never use it. All of it is partisan hacks and fanboys who sell out. But I agree like the few journalist that are still willing to speak out and give a unbiased opinion the gaming industry needs someone who can just tell it like it is past all the PR.[/quote]
MarioColbert
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[quote name='Kfoster1979']Well its not just the "Gaming Media" journalism is dead in America , we tout Free speech and Freedom of the press but never use it. All of it is partisan hacks and fanboys who sell out. But I agree like the few journalist that are still willing to speak out and give a unbiased opinion the gaming industry needs someone who can just tell it like it is past all the PR.[/quote]
I agree with you completely (now, I'm not trying to bring politics into this thread, but since we are using it for comparison, I'm going to try to keep it as neutral as possible), yet persons like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert have created a great way to say what they want under the guise of comedy. The Daily Show has made fun of John Kerrey, it has gone through a hilarious take on Clinton, and now they are after Bush, for no other reason that it is their job to go after whoever is the current occupant of the oval office.
While my statement was a vision of a "media utopia," where journalists are intelligent about things that they say, and are more than willing to accept "their side's" faults, I do believe that it is possible for such an outlet to exist and to gain tremendous popularity among gamers. Video game industry is hardly "under the radar" anymore (shit, PS3 price tag was covered on a local top-40 station), and it's about god damn time for at least ONE of those high-trafficing internet "magazines" to start asking those assholes some questions.
I agree with you completely (now, I'm not trying to bring politics into this thread, but since we are using it for comparison, I'm going to try to keep it as neutral as possible), yet persons like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert have created a great way to say what they want under the guise of comedy. The Daily Show has made fun of John Kerrey, it has gone through a hilarious take on Clinton, and now they are after Bush, for no other reason that it is their job to go after whoever is the current occupant of the oval office.
While my statement was a vision of a "media utopia," where journalists are intelligent about things that they say, and are more than willing to accept "their side's" faults, I do believe that it is possible for such an outlet to exist and to gain tremendous popularity among gamers. Video game industry is hardly "under the radar" anymore (shit, PS3 price tag was covered on a local top-40 station), and it's about god damn time for at least ONE of those high-trafficing internet "magazines" to start asking those assholes some questions.
MarioColbert
CAGiversary!
[quote name='BKPartisan']It's not dead, it's commercialized. And it's not that we don't use free speech, we are using it right now. The problem is that the voice with the money to be flashy enough to be loudest, is the one that is heard. When you are lazy and there is some dude screaming lies and advertisements in your ear all day, you're probably not going to feel like going out and researching it for yourself.[/quote]
Maddox. Penny-Arcade. VGCats. SomethingAwful. YTMND.
Those guys are the opposite of "flashy," and they don't bother to advertise, yet people flock to them like crazy. Penny Arcade generates two million visitors per day (according to Gabe, so give or take a million), and unlike GameSpot and IGN, they spend $0.00 on advertisement. The same can be said for the rest.
Each of the aforementioned has an army of people that can bring down any of the geosites websites, simply by posting a link on their appropriate website. Each of them can generate a substantial revenue through advertisements alone. They did it by posting their honest opinions, unfiltered by, well, anything.
Those guys can do something... Something more than make fun of the new Superman Movie. Something more than write a book about how funny chauvenism is. Something much more than Bill Cosby rapping... You get my drift.
Maddox. Penny-Arcade. VGCats. SomethingAwful. YTMND.
Those guys are the opposite of "flashy," and they don't bother to advertise, yet people flock to them like crazy. Penny Arcade generates two million visitors per day (according to Gabe, so give or take a million), and unlike GameSpot and IGN, they spend $0.00 on advertisement. The same can be said for the rest.
Each of the aforementioned has an army of people that can bring down any of the geosites websites, simply by posting a link on their appropriate website. Each of them can generate a substantial revenue through advertisements alone. They did it by posting their honest opinions, unfiltered by, well, anything.
Those guys can do something... Something more than make fun of the new Superman Movie. Something more than write a book about how funny chauvenism is. Something much more than Bill Cosby rapping... You get my drift.
Daphatty, that was a pretty interesting post (top of page 3). I agree with the other poster on this page, if you have any other info like that it could make for a cool feature.
To reiterate and expand on what was said in the first post - keep in mind this isn't meant to be an ultra-serious "OMG STOLEN!!!" discussion, and the list is not necessarily meant to be taken as a bible. As has already been stated, one of the later model Ataris had backwards compatibility, but that doesn't really mean Sony stole it from them....there is certainly a difference between stealing an idea (like the layout and ideas of XBox Live), just going with an obvious technological advancement (like using DVDs), and the could-be-either "gray areas" (wireless controllers, hard drives, etc). Pointing out the hypocrisy of any of these suit-and-tie mouthpieces is always a good time, regardless of who you're "rooting" for. I'm picking on Kaz here but I've had plenty of issues with our corporate shill friends at Nintendo and Microsoft as well.
So unleash that inner bully, dammit. We've got easy targets everywhere.
To reiterate and expand on what was said in the first post - keep in mind this isn't meant to be an ultra-serious "OMG STOLEN!!!" discussion, and the list is not necessarily meant to be taken as a bible. As has already been stated, one of the later model Ataris had backwards compatibility, but that doesn't really mean Sony stole it from them....there is certainly a difference between stealing an idea (like the layout and ideas of XBox Live), just going with an obvious technological advancement (like using DVDs), and the could-be-either "gray areas" (wireless controllers, hard drives, etc). Pointing out the hypocrisy of any of these suit-and-tie mouthpieces is always a good time, regardless of who you're "rooting" for. I'm picking on Kaz here but I've had plenty of issues with our corporate shill friends at Nintendo and Microsoft as well.
So unleash that inner bully, dammit. We've got easy targets everywhere.
Daphatty, that was a pretty interesting post (top of page 3). I agree with the other poster on this page, if you have any other info like that it could make for a cool feature.
To reiterate and expand on what was said in the first post - keep in mind this isn't meant to be an ultra-serious "OMG STOLEN!!!" discussion, and the list is not necessarily meant to be taken as a bible. As has already been stated, one of the later model Ataris had backwards compatibility, but that doesn't really mean Sony stole it from them....there is certainly a difference between stealing an idea (like the layout and ideas of XBox Live), just going with an obvious technological advancement (like using DVDs), and the could-be-either "gray areas" (wireless controllers, hard drives, etc). Pointing out the hypocrisy of any of these suit-and-tie mouthpieces is always a good time, regardless of who you're "rooting" for. I'm picking on Kaz here but I've had plenty of issues with our corporate shill friends at Nintendo and Microsoft as well.
So unleash that inner bully, dammit. We've got easy targets everywhere.
To reiterate and expand on what was said in the first post - keep in mind this isn't meant to be an ultra-serious "OMG STOLEN!!!" discussion, and the list is not necessarily meant to be taken as a bible. As has already been stated, one of the later model Ataris had backwards compatibility, but that doesn't really mean Sony stole it from them....there is certainly a difference between stealing an idea (like the layout and ideas of XBox Live), just going with an obvious technological advancement (like using DVDs), and the could-be-either "gray areas" (wireless controllers, hard drives, etc). Pointing out the hypocrisy of any of these suit-and-tie mouthpieces is always a good time, regardless of who you're "rooting" for. I'm picking on Kaz here but I've had plenty of issues with our corporate shill friends at Nintendo and Microsoft as well.
So unleash that inner bully, dammit. We've got easy targets everywhere.
mykevermin
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[quote name='MarioColbert']Maddox. Penny-Arcade. VGCats. SomethingAwful. YTMND.
Those guys are the opposite of "flashy," and they don't bother to advertise, yet people flock to them like crazy. Penny Arcade generates two million visitors per day (according to Gabe, so give or take a million), and unlike GameSpot and IGN, they spend $0.00 on advertisement. The same can be said for the rest.
Each of the aforementioned has an army of people that can bring down any of the geosites websites, simply by posting a link on their appropriate website. Each of them can generate a substantial revenue through advertisements alone. They did it by posting their honest opinions, unfiltered by, well, anything.
Those guys can do something... Something more than make fun of the new Superman Movie. Something more than write a book about how funny chauvenism is. Something much more than Bill Cosby rapping... You get my drift.[/QUOTE]
They aren't the "print" media, unfortunately. While they can take editorial perspectives on games and gaming current events, they aren't what people go to for hard-hitting news and interviews. They're kinda like the "Free Republic/Daily Kos" of gaming sites. All opinion and no substance.
They also don't interview Peter Moore and give him shit, or Reggie, or whomever. The closest that comes to that is EGM's retrospective interview in each issue, where they interview the lead somepositionorother for a top notch game that's a few months old, asking them about stuff left out, regrets, and things of that nature.
What seems to me to be the problem is that the gaming rags (print, gamespot, ign) see themselves to be in competition with each other, rather than serving as a bipartisan force to bring real news to people. Piss off Ubisoft? Someone else gets the cover story for Assassin's Creed. Piss off EA? You lose credibility when all the other rags but yours have review copies of their titles. Ask Peter Moore a tough question? Well, that'll be the last interview you do with him. I can't prove this, of course, but that's because we have the problem we exist in currently. The media act as cheerleaders for the industry, uncritically pushing title x or system y, and failing to ask tough questions of the PR bullshit artists for each system (though post-release mockery of Peter Molyneux is common, it's pervasive enough to be exempt from this point). Because, it seems, nobody is willing to talk shit about the industry, we haven't seen the ramifications of a gaming media that's willing to call a piece of shit a piece of shit. Shame, really.
Those guys are the opposite of "flashy," and they don't bother to advertise, yet people flock to them like crazy. Penny Arcade generates two million visitors per day (according to Gabe, so give or take a million), and unlike GameSpot and IGN, they spend $0.00 on advertisement. The same can be said for the rest.
Each of the aforementioned has an army of people that can bring down any of the geosites websites, simply by posting a link on their appropriate website. Each of them can generate a substantial revenue through advertisements alone. They did it by posting their honest opinions, unfiltered by, well, anything.
Those guys can do something... Something more than make fun of the new Superman Movie. Something more than write a book about how funny chauvenism is. Something much more than Bill Cosby rapping... You get my drift.[/QUOTE]
They aren't the "print" media, unfortunately. While they can take editorial perspectives on games and gaming current events, they aren't what people go to for hard-hitting news and interviews. They're kinda like the "Free Republic/Daily Kos" of gaming sites. All opinion and no substance.
They also don't interview Peter Moore and give him shit, or Reggie, or whomever. The closest that comes to that is EGM's retrospective interview in each issue, where they interview the lead somepositionorother for a top notch game that's a few months old, asking them about stuff left out, regrets, and things of that nature.
What seems to me to be the problem is that the gaming rags (print, gamespot, ign) see themselves to be in competition with each other, rather than serving as a bipartisan force to bring real news to people. Piss off Ubisoft? Someone else gets the cover story for Assassin's Creed. Piss off EA? You lose credibility when all the other rags but yours have review copies of their titles. Ask Peter Moore a tough question? Well, that'll be the last interview you do with him. I can't prove this, of course, but that's because we have the problem we exist in currently. The media act as cheerleaders for the industry, uncritically pushing title x or system y, and failing to ask tough questions of the PR bullshit artists for each system (though post-release mockery of Peter Molyneux is common, it's pervasive enough to be exempt from this point). Because, it seems, nobody is willing to talk shit about the industry, we haven't seen the ramifications of a gaming media that's willing to call a piece of shit a piece of shit. Shame, really.
Kfoster1979
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[quote name='BKPartisan']It's not dead, it's commercialized. And it's not that we don't use free speech, we are using it right now. The problem is that the voice with the money to be flashy enough to be loudest, is the one that is heard. When you are lazy and there is some dude screaming lies and advertisements in your ear all day, you're probably not going to feel like going out and researching it for yourself.[/QUOTE]
I agree, and the Free speech comment was more directed at the mainstrem media and not the Internet comunities and Blogs were you are more likley to find at least someones honest opinion it might not be unbiased you get my point.
But I think this is getting way off the OP Topic but it has been a good discussion. Maybe Xbox live was some kind of innovation on consoles but not the first at online gameing it took it to a better level and now Sony and Nintendo to a point are trying to follow. I just gose to show its all about progress and game play in the end the one with the best games and gameplay will win out regardless of "innovation".
I agree, and the Free speech comment was more directed at the mainstrem media and not the Internet comunities and Blogs were you are more likley to find at least someones honest opinion it might not be unbiased you get my point.
But I think this is getting way off the OP Topic but it has been a good discussion. Maybe Xbox live was some kind of innovation on consoles but not the first at online gameing it took it to a better level and now Sony and Nintendo to a point are trying to follow. I just gose to show its all about progress and game play in the end the one with the best games and gameplay will win out regardless of "innovation".
BKPartisan
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While I agree with you, I don't really think this is much of a free speech issue. You can speak freely all you want, but you can't expect people to like it. Thus, when you grill someone in an interview, you can't expect them to want to come back. It seems to me that you want, like I do, the product of quality journalism. Unfortunately, there are more idiot-friendly and lucrative alternatives these days.
[quote name='mykevermin']
What seems to me to be the problem is that the gaming rags (print, gamespot, ign) see themselves to be in competition with each other, rather than serving as a bipartisan force to bring real news to people. Piss off Ubisoft? Someone else gets the cover story for Assassin's Creed. Piss off EA? You lose credibility when all the other rags but yours have review copies of their titles. Ask Peter Moore a tough question? Well, that'll be the last interview you do with him. I can't prove this, of course, but that's because we have the problem we exist in currently. The media act as cheerleaders for the industry, uncritically pushing title x or system y, and failing to ask tough questions of the PR bullshit artists for each system (though post-release mockery of Peter Molyneux is common, it's pervasive enough to be exempt from this point). Because, it seems, nobody is willing to talk shit about the industry, we haven't seen the ramifications of a gaming media that's willing to call a piece of shit a piece of shit. Shame, really.[/quote]
[quote name='mykevermin']
What seems to me to be the problem is that the gaming rags (print, gamespot, ign) see themselves to be in competition with each other, rather than serving as a bipartisan force to bring real news to people. Piss off Ubisoft? Someone else gets the cover story for Assassin's Creed. Piss off EA? You lose credibility when all the other rags but yours have review copies of their titles. Ask Peter Moore a tough question? Well, that'll be the last interview you do with him. I can't prove this, of course, but that's because we have the problem we exist in currently. The media act as cheerleaders for the industry, uncritically pushing title x or system y, and failing to ask tough questions of the PR bullshit artists for each system (though post-release mockery of Peter Molyneux is common, it's pervasive enough to be exempt from this point). Because, it seems, nobody is willing to talk shit about the industry, we haven't seen the ramifications of a gaming media that's willing to call a piece of shit a piece of shit. Shame, really.[/quote]
bread's done