Pat Tillman & Jessica Lynch

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Pentagon Challenged on Lynch and Tillman

By JOHN HOLUSHA
Military and other administration officials created a heroic story about the death of Cpl. Pat Tillman to distract attention from setbacks in Iraq and the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the slain man’s younger brother, Kevin Tillman, said today.

Testifying before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Mr. Tillman said the military knew almost immediately that Corporal Tillman, an Army Ranger who left a career as a pro football player to enlist, had been killed accidentally in Afghanistan in April 2004 by fire from his own unit. But officials chose to put a “patriotic glow” on his death, he said.

Mr. Tillman said the decision to award his brother a Silver Star and to say that he died heroically fighting the enemy was “utter fiction” that was intended to “exploit Pat’s death.”

Former Pvt. Jessica Lynch leveled similar criticism today at the hearing about the initial accounts given by the Army of her capture in Iraq. Ms. Lynch was rescued from an Iraqi hospital in dramatic fashion by American troops after she suffered serious injuries and was captured in an ambush of her truck convoy in March 2003.

In her testimony this morning, she said she did not understand why the Army put out a story that she went down firing at the enemy.

“I’m confused why they lied,” she said.

Mr. Tillman and Ms. Lynch appeared at a hearing called to examine why “inaccurate accounts of these two incidents” were put out by the administration. Today’s session was part of the Democratically-controlled Congress’s effort to hold the Bush Administration accountable for its conduct of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and other issues.

Pentagon officials and military representatives were scheduled to testify later in the hearing.

Ms. Lynch said she could not know why she was depicted as a “Rambo from West Virginia,” when in fact she was riding in a truck, not fighting, when she was injured.

Dr. Gene Bolles, a doctor who treated Ms. Lynch at a hospital in Germany after she was rescued, said that her injuries, while extensive, were not the result of bullet wounds, as first described.

Mr. Tillman’s tone was more bitter than Ms. Lynch’s. He described the early accounts of his brother’s death as “deliberate and calculated lies” and “deliberate acts of deceit,” rather than the result of confusion or innocent error.

For her part, Ms. Lynch said in her testimony that other members of her unit had acted with genuine heroism that deserved the attention she received. “The bottom line is the American people are capable of determining their own ideas of heroes, and they don’t need to be told elaborate tales,” she said.

Representative Henry Waxman, Democrat of California, the chairman of the committee, said the hearings were intended to determine the “sources and motivations” for the erroneous accounts and to see whether Administration officials had been held accountable for them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/24/washington/24cnd-cong.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

I'm curious to see what the fallout will be from this story, if any. I hope it doesn't get lost in the overwhelming number of bad stories about this administration.

Both of these soldiers were exploited for cheap political gain.
 
they are saying that one of the Predator drones might have filmed Tillman's death, so it should be interesting if that footage actually exists
 
In her testimony this morning, she said she did not understand why the Army put out a story that she went down firing at the enemy.

Never heard that. This is the very, very, very first time I'd heard ANYTHING like that. Everything prior? She was an engineer, a specialist, et al.

All good news is to distract from the bad. I must say, that's such a good rhetorical ploy, I wish I had thought of it.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']they are saying that one of the Predator drones might have filmed Tillman's death, so it should be interesting if that footage actually exists[/quote]

Good luck getting that footage released. :lol:

I thought Tillman was killed through fratricide, though?
 
Jessica Lynch's guilt must have finally caught up with her.... after making a ton of money off of her book deal.

The funny thing is, her gun jamming and her squadmates saving her life is not new information. This has been known for quite sometime. She was not a hero. She was not tortured. Hell, she wasn't the only one taken captive. Her squadmates gave their lives to save her. They are the heroes. But the Government made her a posterchild for (undeserved) heroism. The other girl that was taken captive, who coincidentally was african-american, was swept under the rug. But as said, this is old information.

It's just good to FINALLY see her coming out and admitting all of this on her own. It would be nicer if she would share the proceeds of her book deal, and any other profits from this ordeal, with the families of those who died that day.
 
The suspected creator of the stories was not available for comment:
250px-Goebbels.jpg


If anyone knows who that is, that ought to stir up this thread a little :twisted:
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']
If anyone knows who that is, that ought to stir up this thread a little :twisted:
[/quote]

You vastly overestimate the creativity of comparing Bush to Nazis.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']
You vastly overestimate the creativity of comparing Bush to Nazis.
[/QUOTE]

I didn't say Bush came up with the story, I'd say it was more that it was Bush's version of Goebbels
Karl Rove.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']
I didn't say Bush came up with the story, I'd say it was more that it was Bush's version of Goebbels
Karl Rove.
[/quote]

Er... yeah. See, where we come from, what you display there is the sorts of things we pay psychiatrists to come up with names for. You know, those delusions of some grand cover-up/conspiracy where there was none, this nearly psychotic insistence that incomplete information and lying are the same thing (Oh Msut, my love...)...

I mean, that's propaganda too, but since it is anti-war, I guess it is the "good" kind.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']You know, those delusions of some grand cover-up/conspiracy where there was none[/QUOTE]

There was most certainly a cover up, congressional hearings on the matter were blocked constantly.

As for the Jessica Lynch thing you are saying somehow an almost completely fictional account happened accidentally.
 
[quote name='t0llenz']Glad to see Godwin's Law still holds true :p[/QUOTE]

If I never hear "Godwin's Law" brought up again, it will be too soon.

It's a pure post-hoc bullshit law anyway; it's only brought up to reprove itself in every discussion thread where Nazi Germany is mentioned in any way, shape, or form. It is notably absent in the vast majority of other threads where it is not mentioned.

Like accusations of the liberal media: the media is totally liberal, according to many conservatives, except when it isn't.
 
[quote name='Msut77']There was most certainly a cover up, congressional hearings on the matter were blocked constantly.

As for the Jessica Lynch thing you are saying somehow an almost completely fictional account happened accidentally.[/quote]

Whereas you're saying "INSTANT CONSPIRACY" within a massive government bureaucracy.

Completely, totally oblivious to the notion that the correct information did not come from... say... some hard-nosed journalist following the money (It is to laugh) BUT FROM THE SAME GOVERNMENT.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Completely, totally oblivious to the notion that the correct information did not come from... say... some hard-nosed journalist following the money[/QUOTE]

Those journalists got the story from the government and printed it unquestionably.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Those journalists got the story from the government and printed it unquestionably.[/quote]

They got it from vague, unconfirmed sources before the US military completed its investigation. In other words, the incorrect Lynch story? A product of the media, NOT the government.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']They got it from vague, unconfirmed sources before the US military completed its investigation. In other words, the incorrect Lynch story? A product of the media, NOT the government.[/QUOTE]

No they got the story from the government and the military, I am not saying they are completely free of blame but you are weaving a fantasy.
 
[quote name='Msut77']No they got the story from the government and the military, I am not saying they are completely free of blame but you are weaving a fantasy.[/quote]

They got unconfirmed rumors from individuals within the government and military, people within the bureaucracy who didn't know all of the facts (as they could not yet be verified) and were conjecturing based off of second and third hand testimony. The military DID caution these folks that the story was not yet confirmable, but the news ran with it anyway.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']They got unconfirmed rumors from individuals within the government and military, people within the bureaucracy who didn't know all of the facts (as they could not yet be verified) and were conjecturing based off of second and third hand testimony. The military DID caution these folks that the story was not yet confirmable, but the news ran with it anyway.[/QUOTE]

You are making things up, again.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Okay, I call for a throw-down. Let's see it. Does your hand beat mine?[/QUOTE]

Your link has nothing to do with the media "conjecturing".

They followed what an "unnamed official" said, that is sadly fairly common. The only conjecture in your link is made by the author of the article, he says that the reporters did not know who the source is and for some reason made the official up.


The media should not have been so irresponsible but they did not make anything up. The media did what got us into Iraq in the first place, taking everything an anonymous government official told them and running with it.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Heh, how quickly you run from the government cover-up narrative?[/QUOTE]

It applies for the Tillman fiasco, but hey it is not as if anyone expects coherence from you anyway.
 
[quote name='Msut77']It applies for the Tillman fiasco, but hey it is not as if anyone expects coherence from you anyway.[/quote]

Oh, yes, a government cover-up that lasted a month until the army released the truth. Riiight.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Oh, yes, a government cover-up that lasted a month until the army released the truth.[/QUOTE]


Congress blocked any inquiries to find out the truth until just recently.
 
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