Paypal buyer protection is useless

YoshiFan1

YoshiFan1

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I ordered some shipping materials from a seller on EBay. I only got 1/8th of what I ordered. The seller was kicked off of EBay about a week after I bought the items and I had no record of the sale in my EBay history and got an e-mail from EBay's Loss Prevention Department stating what had happened and it was suggested I opened a Paypal dispute.

The seller never responded so I escalated the dispute to a claim. I get an e-mail today saying:

"After careful review, we have determined that the seller is at fault but
regret to inform you that we were unable to recover any funds from the
seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery of funds
associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.

We appreciate your business and apologize for any inconvenience this
situation may have caused. Please know that we will make our best effort to
recover the funds in question if they become available in the seller's
account in the future and will take appropriate action against the seller.
Such action may include issuing a warning, a temporary restriction, or
terminating the account. Keep in mind that PayPal uses a number of factors
to determine when to take action, including member complaints. Due to
privacy laws, we cannot discuss the details of any action taken. We hope
you understand our policy and that it assures you that you are safe using
PayPal. "

So I get no money back from Paypal.

It was under $20 total so no use going through EBay's complaint area because of the $25 fee.

I guess it should have been a red flag that the seller had private feedback (but was 98.x% positive).

I didn't pay with a credit card since it was a small amount and I don't think I would have risked a chargeback anyway since I heard that can terminate your Paypal account and I can't have that happen.
 
Sounds like the guy cleaned out his account and there is really nothing Paypal can do. The whole "we cannot recover funds out of his account" line leads me to believe that.

So, they found out to be right, but I guess the guy emptied his account there is nothing they can do, so they gave you some line about how you're not guaranteed to get your money back.
 
Yeah that sounds like what happened. I kind of expected it when I saw they were kicked off EBay but figured I would try anyway. I guess it's a risk of buying stuff on EBay
 
Yeah, unless you use a credit card, paypal is worthless. I hate how the default is always your bank account, and you can't set it to a credit card. Nor can you use a credit card if you have a positive balance in your paypal account (at least I could never figure it out).
 
I mostly sell on eBay so i never researched this - but can you open a second paypal account that isnt linked to your bank account that you can just use to buy using a credit card?
 
[quote name='E-Z-B'] Nor can you use a credit card if you have a positive balance in your paypal account (at least I could never figure it out).[/QUOTE]

This pisses me off.

And yea, it used to be (I think) Paypal would dip into people's credit cards or whatever they had registered to get the money back, but I think they got in trouble for doing that.
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']I mostly sell on eBay so i never researched this - but can you open a second paypal account that isnt linked to your bank account that you can just use to buy using a credit card?[/QUOTE]

I think you can have a personal account and a premier account and you could use 1 for selling and 1 for buying. I never considered it because I very rarely buy anything off of EBay (maybe 5 - 6 items a year)
 
Don't lose all hope, something similar happened to me earlier this year. I won an auction for Pikmin 2 from a reliable seller, after 3 weeks of waiting for the game I found out he was no longer registered on E-bay so I put in a Paypal claim. I won the claim and got the same response you did. I figured I was never going to see that money again, but like 3 months later somehow Paypal managed to recover it.
 
happened to me with 400 bucks a couple of years back. "The seller had no money in his account, sorry" thats all that i got. Lost my 400
 
I had one incident like that a few years ago. I was so pissed that I gave the seller the benefit of a doubt that maybe it's just slow shipping. By the time I put in a claim w/ paypal, it was already too late for me to claim through my credit card. :bomb:

I only lost $10. So it was an inexpensive lesson learned.
 
Since pay pal is connected to ebay, if a seller on ebay gets booted for whatever reason, there should be a freeze on the pay pal account attatched to it to deal with possible disputes for say...30 days?
 
i got scammed once by someone on ebay, i bought 2 games and received none, there were like 10 other ppl who also got scammed. i contacted paypal and after they investigated the case they told me they couldn't get the money. a few days later i received a payment from payapl for $6 or something so i called again and the operator told me they did get the money back but they charged me $50 (2 items for $25 each) for the fee so they only got me $6. but the operator was nice so she talked to her manager and got me my $50 back because i had no knowledge of this charge... guess i lucked out.
 
maybe paypal is a lot better now. my incident was a few years ago. there were A LOT of complaints for pages on this seller. Back then, I was still a newbie, too. So I didn't check a person's rep when purchasing.

Yes. A paypal account is linked to their ebay account and can be freezed, but if the person immediately withdrew the funds and closed their account... :bomb::bomb::bomb: I think people were able to get away with this back then, but hopefully, paypal has improved on their buyer protection policy now.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']I don't think I would have risked a chargeback anyway since I heard that can terminate your Paypal account and I can't have that happen.[/quote]

I did 3 credit chargebacks during the last 2 years. I called paypal and asked, "Is this okay?" and they said "sure" so I did it

- Discover informed Paypal
- Paypal opened a SECOND dispute case requiring the seller to return the money
- Seller kept silent.
- Paypal closed the case.
- Discover removed the money from Paypal's bank account & returned it to me.

So in essence the seller (x3) scammed Paypal out of $20 each. I'm sure he/she was suspended too.
 
[quote name='ab12']they did get the money back but they charged me $50 (2 items for $25 each) for the fee so they only got me $6.[/quote]

That's not paypal but Ebay's insurance. Ebay's insurance will give you money if a seller scams you but the insurance charges a $25 premium. $28 refund - $25 insurance premium == $3 net.
 
so whats the deal on this $25 fee crap? Does it happen whenever you open a paypal dispute or only in certain cases? i couldn't find any info on this in the Resolution center in paypal. i might be opening a dispute soon....
 
That's because it's EBAY insurance. When the Seller has emptied their account and Paypal can not recover your money they will, after several months, automatically contact Ebay & file for the insurance. Click here: http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html

"...eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program, where they may be reimbursed up to $200 (minus a $25 processing cost)."

I've never used this.
I prefer to use a credit card.
 
part of the problem is private feedback, which I find a horrible, horrible idea. The whole point of feedback is to air out the bad buyers/sellers, private feedback provides a run-around to the entire system
 
I'd say contact the Better Business Beuaru. Worst case they will tell you they can't do anything. I had an issue where paypal refused to refund me on an item that got scammed. After contacting the BBB paypal agreed to personally refund me out of their pocket after I mailed them the merchandise.
 
my issue is with a $20 item and looking at the item page now, it looks like i wasnt eligible for the "paypal buyer protection" crap, so not worth the $25 fee. i'm just worried since i used my selling account i dont want to mess with negative feedbacks. Shouldve used my 2 feedback account....oh well. $20 in the drain.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']I'd say contact the Better Business Beuaru. Worst case they will tell you they can't do anything. I had an issue where paypal refused to refund me on an item that got scammed. After contacting the BBB paypal agreed to personally refund me out of their pocket after I mailed them the merchandise.[/QUOTE]

I'll keep that in mind for future problems. It's too late for me to mail them the items I did get since I used most of it for items I sold this past month.
 
[quote name='Pookymeister']my issue is with a $20 item and looking at the item page now, it looks like i wasnt eligible for the "paypal buyer protection"[/quote]

Even so you'd probably win the paypal claim. Go ahead & file. Worse case you waste some time. Also:

- use a credit card
- use a credit card
- use a credit card

Your credit car will always back you up even if Paypal does not.
 
screw the Better Business Bureau. If you have a real problem file here.

http://www.ic3.gov/

I spent $400 on PS1 games and the seller shipped me all copies on blank cd's. Within a week i had my $400 back. What happened was i filed, then got a call from my local police department. They then called the local police department of where the seller lived and then called the seller, saying if i don't get a refund check within a week they will be arresting him. Worked very nicely.

Obviously this is for major problems (don't think they would respond to a $25 loss) but if a seller commits major fraud it's worth a shot.
 
I sell stuff on Ebay and I'm convinced the only reason Paypal exists is to screw buyers and sellers alike as much as possible. Unfortunatly it is a necessary evil if you are a seller.
 
I dont see why pay pal allows non-confirmed people to use it. Yes, I know they still make money off it etc etc.
 
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