Paypal now increasing the time for buyers to file merchandise disputes (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days

[CaoPi]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]got this in the e-mail, [/SIZE]looks like ebay sellers will be getting more screwed!

There haven't been any changes to our Privacy Policy since May 15, but each year we send you a copy of our Privacy Policy just to keep you up to date on our data collection, use and protection practices. (You can also check out our Privacy Policy at any time by clicking the Privacy link at the bottom of any page.)
 
In the following pages, you'll also find our Annual Error Resolution Notice describing how to report unauthorized transactions or other errors when you use PayPal. For more information, see Section 12 of the PayPal User Agreement.
 
And last but not least, you'll see some updates to our User Agreement that go into effect November 18, 2014. If you're interested in all the details, take a look at our Policy Updates Page. Here are the highlights:
 
• We're increasing the time for buyers to file merchandise disputes (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days.
• We're extending buyer protection to include item not received claims for custom made products.
• Because PayPal Seller Protection and Buyer Protection policies may vary from country to country, we're adding language to clarify which country's policy applies when a seller makes a sale to a buyer outside of the U.S.
 
If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.
 
Feel free to contact us with questions through the Contact link at the bottom of any page. 
 
Sincerely, 
 
The PayPal Privacy and Compliance Team

 

[Vinny]

Jesus... 

 

[eulogywerd21]

That's quite the increase. As someone who primarily uses PayPal for purchasing, this pleases me, to a degree. I feel like sellers who accept PayPal will compensate somehow. Maybe with additional customer fees or something.

 

[GBAstar]

Well let's be honest... 45 or 180 days... it's not going to increase INR scams.

The biggest worry should be buyer's remorse (aka I found it cheaper elsewhere) SNAD's filed on hot items around the holiday. I would be really wary of selling hard to find (due to increased demand) items near Christmas as shitty buyer's may start to buy  items on eBay for a premium knowing that they have 180 days to find the item locally and send that back to you.

It becomes a little bit different for items that have S/N as you can always call them out for committing mail fraud (assuming you keep your original receipt and record the S/N of items you send.

 

[ludus]

Wow, that's a big jump in days. And yeah, people may need to deal with buyers remorse, but good thing I don't sell anything too expensive anyways. 

I just wish things would stay the same. Paypal and Ebay isn't perfect, but it seems like this is a lot worse. 

 

[onikage]

With every additional anti-seller measure eBay/paypal takes, I wish even more for a viable alternative. Whenever that day finally comes, I'll leave and never look back.

 

[Kaipper]

With every additional anti-seller measure eBay/paypal takes, I wish even more for a viable alternative. Whenever that day finally comes, I'll leave and never look back.

There's always Amazon, but of course that comes with its own issues...

 

[Vinny]

There's always Amazon, but of course that comes with its own issues...

I was going to say the same thing. They would be fine if it weren't for their "the seller is always wrong" policy. I'm sure eBay is going to enact policies that'll protect their big sellers but everyone else is gonna be screwed.

I'm really not sure where to go. I know eBay wasn't the most popular option but if you're careful and honest, you can avoid most issues. I've been selling there since 2011 and I've only had 1 problem over a $15 game. No way am I gonna sell there anymore.

 

[Navex]

Shit like this is why I'm glad I unloaded most of my things last year. I'm trying to get the rest of it out this month and that will be it for all of my old things. I'll still likely risk it if I ever come across something I want to make some cash on but thankfully I'm done with them for the most part since I don't flip or run a business. To this day I don't know how anyone manages to sell on Amazon as knows I've tried many times but anything I've ever tried to sell just sits there and never gets a bite. It's not like I was demanding much either, priced it lower than most to sell and nothing.

 

[Vampire_Zio]

I only had this problem once when I sold a Sega CD system with some scratched games and controllers, stated the condition of everything and noted it was not tested. The mistake I made was I usually put "Sold As Is" in my posts and forgot to do it this one time, so Ebay suggested I refund like $5.00 because of a broken controller, which I did just to shut the guy up, did not care to much since I got the system and all the games for free.

 

[Survivalism]

I sold one item on eBay last year and never again. A week after he got it he filed a dispute for a refund even though my auction stated "no refunds," which apparently is part of the buyer protection program that the sellIer has zero rights ever, and that if a buyer files said dispute, they essentially get their money back AND get to keep your shit. I was not aware of this. I agreed on the refund if he paid the $15 shipping, and he never bothered to respond after that, because that's obviously what he was trying to do. So the $200 that I kind of needed right then sat frozen in my account for over a month, by which time I got paid twice, thus defeating the entire purpose of using eBay. They still have the balls to send me bills for the $20 fee that they're never going to get.

I'm not the type of person to say eBay is looking for more and more ways to purposely screw the seller, but it certainly looks that way.

 

[strawyleader997]

I feel that a buyer could scam a seller over a cheap item(less than $7 or so) by opening up a return for a defect item(even if the item isn't defective), knowing that the selling doesn't want to have to pay the money for them to return it. Thus they get a free game.

 

[Asmith906]

I sold one item on eBay last year and never again. A week after he got it he filed a dispute for a refund even though my auction stated "no refunds," which apparently is part of the buyer protection program that the sellIer has zero rights ever, and that if a buyer files said dispute, they essentially get their money back AND get to keep your shit. I was not aware of this. I agreed on the refund if he paid the $15 shipping, and he never bothered to respond after that, because that's obviously what he was trying to do. So the $200 that I kind of needed right then sat frozen in my account for over a month, by which time I got paid twice, thus defeating the entire purpose of using eBay. They still have the balls to send me bills for the $20 fee that they're never going to get.

I'm not the type of person to say eBay is looking for more and more ways to purposely screw the seller, but it certainly looks that way.

I always feel like I'm taking a gamble when selling on ebay. Your best bet is to make sure your describe absolutely everything in the page and put them in giant letters.

 

[Doomstink]

Also, any disputes opened against you count towards your DSRs regardless of how they close. Too many cases will limit your selling activity and put a 30 day hold on all funds in Paypal (for a 6 - 12 month period).

 

[Vinny]

Also, any disputes opened against you count towards your DSRs regardless of how they close. Too many cases will limit your selling activity and put a 30 day hold on all funds in Paypal (for a 6 - 12 month period).

I've never heard that rule but there might be exceptions to that rule. I had a dispute opened against me like 2 months ago, which I won, and my DSRs haven't changed... all still sitting at 5.0 with 36 ratings. If I did get a 1 start, my ratings should have dropped to 4.9.

 

[nigel200099]

I've never heard that rule but there might be exceptions to that rule. I had a dispute opened against me like 2 months ago, which I won, and my DSRs haven't changed... all still sitting at 5.0 with 36 ratings. If I did get a 1 start, my ratings should have dropped to 4.9.

There are 2 set of DSRs on ebay 1 for domestic and 1 for international. A dispute will not drop your rating but multiple disputes will get you "below standard" even if you have all 5s rating...ebay is run by a bunch of bad folks who don't sell on ebay.

 

[GBAstar]

There are 2 set of DSRs on ebay 1 for domestic and 1 for international. A dispute will not drop your rating but multiple disputes will get you "below standard" even if you have all 5s rating...ebay is run by a bunch of bad folks who don't sell on ebay.

Oh lord.

Cases (now called requests) do NOT count towards your DSRs. Let's get our terminology straight. DSRs = Detailed Seller Ratings. These are left by buyers at the time they leave feedback.

The term you're looking for is "Defect Rate" which is a completely separate set of selling standards. All open cases ding your defect rate UNLESS you call and have them closed in your favor... so if a buyer opens an INR "request" (remember... they're not called cases anymore) and the tracking shows delivered don't escalate it or wait for it to time out... call up eBay CSR and have them close it in your favor and make sure they put in a request to remove the associated defect.

Also, and not to sound cruel, but if you are selling with the MISunderstanding that you can create your own T&C (like "NO REFUNDS" or "ALL SALES FINAL") and put them in your listing, even when they directly contradict eBay and PayPal's on buyer protection policies then you shouldn't be listing in their marketplace.

It's not 1999 anymore...

 

[Vinny]

Oh lord.

Cases (now called requests) do NOT count towards your DSRs. Let's get our terminology straight. DSRs = Detailed Seller Ratings. These are left by buyers at the time they leave feedback.

The term you're looking for is "Defect Rate" which is a completely separate set of selling standards. All open cases ding your defect rate UNLESS you call and have them closed in your favor... so if a buyer opens an INR "request" (remember... they're not called cases anymore) and the tracking shows delivered don't escalate it or wait for it to time out... call up eBay CSR and have them close it in your favor and make sure they put in a request to remove the associated defect.

Also, and not to sound cruel, but if you are selling with the MISunderstanding that you can create your own T&C (like "NO REFUNDS" or "ALL SALES FINAL") and put them in your listing, even when they directly contradict eBay and PayPal's on buyer protection policies then you shouldn't be listing in their marketplace.

It's not 1999 anymore...

I love when you come in and explain eBay rules and shit so I don't have to bother reading their ToS. Thanks.

But I guess it doesn't really matter since I plan on selling elsewhere from now on. Question is where, and what 's an alternative to PP that people will actually want to use.

 

[GBAstar]

I love when you come in and explain eBay rules and shit so I don't have to bother reading their ToS. Thanks.

But I guess it doesn't really matter since I plan on selling elsewhere from now on. Question is where, and what 's an alternative to PP that people will actually want to use.

They change their ToS so much that I'm usually a quarter behind on the new policies... and I sell frequently.

Their isn't really a good alternative unfortunately. I remember being a kid and buying on yahoo! auctions.... those were the day

 

[Vinny]

Maybe that's eBay's stance, that sellers don't have many good options so they won't leave. I used Amazon for a while a few years back, until I learned about their "the seller is always wrong" stances on disputes, not to mention their fees were much higher than eBay's. 

I'm curious to see what happens... if sellers see lots of more fraudulent cases or of things remain stable. 

 

[burritoman]

They change their ToS so much that I'm usually a quarter behind on the new policies... and I sell frequently.

Their isn't really a good alternative unfortunately. I remember being a kid and buying on yahoo! auctions.... those were the day

I remember Yahoo auctions. I boght and sold a lot of guitar pedals on there. Good times.

eBay and Paypal, this sucks. I already have to deal with dipshits, now they just have long to bend me over. I've never had too many bad experiences on eBay, but this is 6 months. I can buy the shit new, play and finish it, and return it in 6 months? Seriously? WTF.

 

[CaoPi]

watch out holiday shoppers!

 

[Doomstink]

Oh lord.

Cases (now called requests) do NOT count towards your DSRs. Let's get our terminology straight. DSRs = Detailed Seller Ratings. These are left by buyers at the time they leave feedback.

The term you're looking for is "Defect Rate" which is a completely separate set of selling standards. All open cases ding your defect rate UNLESS you call and have them closed in your favor... so if a buyer opens an INR "request" (remember... they're not called cases anymore) and the tracking shows delivered don't escalate it or wait for it to time out... call up eBay CSR and have them close it in your favor and make sure they put in a request to remove the associated defect.

Also, and not to sound cruel, but if you are selling with the MISunderstanding that you can create your own T&C (like "NO REFUNDS" or "ALL SALES FINAL") and put them in your listing, even when they directly contradict eBay and PayPal's on buyer protection policies then you shouldn't be listing in their marketplace.

It's not 1999 anymore...

Sorry I used the wrong term, I guess. I just lump anything on my seller dashboard under DSRs. I didn't think that would set anyone off but I'll note that for the future.

I have an open return policy with no restocking fee or strings attached so I'm not sure if that last blip was directed my way. I got pinged for cases opened because I literally had people opening INR cases a few days after buying an item. I wasn't privy to the calling eBay thing so my cases opened is currently at 3.75%. Topping that off, they also changed the evaluation period for performance from 3 or 4 months to 1 year. If you're like me and you do the bulk of your selling in December and January - that really, really hurts. Especially with the new selling limits BS.

For reference I'm still calling them cases because seriously - who cares? It's a case/dispute, not a "request". I don't care what euphemism eBay wants to apply to it.

On the flipside I noticed eBay lowered fees for games, which I definitely appreciate. Still not quite the 3.75% fees from when I first joined but I'll take 10% over 15% any day of the week.