Paypal Question. Is this even legal?

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schuerm26

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Probs. with paypal, like always. Bunch of crooks. This is my situation. Help me out if you know if this is legal or not.

I had a buyer in italy who said they didn't get a package. I said fine refund the money to the buyer.

My email to paypal:
'Yes you guys refunded the
money as per my instructions to you. WHY DID YOU NOT REFUND MY FEES THAT YOU TOOK FROM ME WHEN HE PAID!!!!!!! You refunded him 186.00, yet I DIDN'T RECEIVE$186.00!!!!! Where are the fees you took from me? They should be returned to me.'

Paypal emails back:
Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further. After I read your email I have reviewed your PayPal account, when you received this payment PayPal took 2.9% + 0.30 cents and credited the rest of the money to your PayPal account, when we refund the buyer, we took what we credited to your PayPal balance and WE put the fees back so the buyer can get the whole amount they paid, so WE did refund the fees that where taken from the payment the first time.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
again.

I emailed back:
That still doesn't make any sense as to how i see it in my account:
He paid $186.50
I received 178.93
He is refunded $186.50 and i don't get the $7.57 in fees back
Therefore you guys get $7.57 in fees. Where is this $7.57?
You refunded him $186.50 from my account. I didn't receive $186.50
from him. I only received $178.93 from him. Therefore you guys owe me a
refundof $7.57 which you took in fees.

Paypal emailed back:
Please note that fees are refunded only in the case where a transaction
is refunded prior to the filing of a claim.



Can they do this? They keep $7.57 of my money for no reason. Who can i contact about this? Not to mention that the 2 emails they sent contradict each other. THe first said they did refund the fees. The 2nd said they don't.






 
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I think you are not understanding what they are saying. He paid what he was refunded. Paypal should have only $178.63 from your account. They don't owe you anything. They paid the $7.57 from thier account.
 
When you refunded him you did not lose any money. Say if you recieved the $186 and thats all you had in your account paypal would take $7 in fees would bring it down to $179 thats what you would see in your account. Then when you refunded him for $186 you dont lose any money and they refund him the full ammount.
 
He paid $186.00

I only get $178.93 of this.

They then take $186.00 from my account to refund him.

I didn't get paid $186.00 for the stuff.

What am i not understanding. Im out $7.57
 
[quote name='schuerm26']He paid $186.00

I only get $178.93 of this.

They then take $186.00 from my account to refund him.

I didn't get paid $186.00 for the stuff.

What am i not understanding. Im out $7.57[/QUOTE]

Your right. The total was 186.00 Paypal took there fee's of 7.57 from the buyer whom sent 186.00 but you only saw 178.93 since the fee's they charged you. When they refunded him they took 186.00 out of Schuerm's Account even though the total Schuerm recieved for this sale was 178.93 after paypal fee's. Therefor paypal should have only took 178.93 since they have your 7.57 already for the fee's they charged you.
 
Exactly. They keep the fee's they took from me. It's a joke and seems to me that it wouldn't be legal, but what the hell can i do.
 
future note and I'm not even joking about this, never ship anything to Italy using USPS. For whatever reason, shit takes forever or gets lost en route. As for your refund issue, I've refunded money before. You shouldn't have lost any money. Paypal refunds the fees. They took the 178.93 from your account and then returned the 7.57 from their own account to get the 186 that goes back to the buyer.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']He paid $186.00

I only get $178.93 of this.

They then take $186.00 from my account to refund him.

I didn't get paid $186.00 for the stuff.

What am i not understanding. Im out $7.57[/QUOTE]
You need to look more closely at the numbers. I've done many-a PayPal refund and this is how it works.

You got $178.93 after fees from the buyer.
You initate a refund for him.
The take the $178.93 from your account and send the fees they took back out of their pocket to him.

Check your balance before the refund and after. $178.93 is missing, not $186, even if the little transactions read "$186.00" because those are factoring in the fee refund that PayPal is kicking in.
 
Your confusing yourself with the fees. Forget about the fees. You originally received 178.93 and they took back 178.93 for the refund. You didn't lose anything.
 
Im not confusing myself with anything.

He paid me. I received the $178 number

He filed a claim. They refunded $186 from my account because that is what he paid.

I DIDN'T RECEIVE $186 FROM HIM BECAUSE PAYPAL TAKES FEES BEFORE I RECEIVE THE PAYMENT!!!!!

So i am out $7.57

It's very simple. They didn't return fees to me. They didn't only take $178. They took $186 because that is what he paid, though i didn't receive that from him. Hence me being out $7.57
 
[quote name='schuerm26']Im not confusing myself with anything.

He paid me. I received the $178 number

He filed a claim. They refunded $186 from my account because that is what he paid.

I DIDN'T RECEIVE $186 FROM HIM BECAUSE PAYPAL TAKES FEES BEFORE I RECEIVE THE PAYMENT!!!!!

So i am out $7.57

It's very simple. They didn't return fees to me. They didn't only take $178. They took $186 because that is what he paid, though i didn't receive that from him. Hence me being out $7.57[/QUOTE]


you didnt lose nothing. go back over your records and see they only took 178 out of your account. Refunding the money is just like cancelling the auction. do the math by hand and you will see

think that is bullshit. try doing a dispute on paypal. they take 25 bucks

i won a 126 buck dispute but only got 101 back now that is bullshit
 
Nevermind people. Thanks for trying but you aren't getting it. Only a couple people are reading this correctly.

1 last attempt. This is what the refund transaction looks like:

May 15, 2006
Refund to ********* (person's name)
Gross 186.50
Fee 000
Net amount 186.50

Now if they had given me the fees back there would be a pos. number in the fees column. There isn't. They took $186.50 and didn't give me back the fees they took during the original transaction. Simple as that. Not sure how everyone has made this so difficult. Im just trying to find out if this is legal for them to do. Refund money of mine i never got from the buyer.

What should be happening is that they refund $178.93 from me and $7.57 from their account. This didn't happen. They refunded $186.50 from my account and kept the $7.57 in their account.
 
sigh this is so sad, you never got that money from paypal BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE FEES THEY TAKE OUT

when you refund the money, it does not list the paypal fees

how about this, if they took an "extra" 7.57 from you, do you have 7.57 less in your paypal account? in your bank account? on your credit card account?

you didnt lose anything, the "fees" section in the refund is supposed to be zero because they didn't take anything out for the REFUND, not the original transaction
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']Your right. The total was 186.00 Paypal took there fee's of 7.57 from the buyer whom sent 186.00 but you only saw 178.93 since the fee's they charged you. When they refunded him they took 186.00 out of Schuerm's Account even though the total Schuerm recieved for this sale was 178.93 after paypal fee's. Therefor paypal should have only took 178.93 since they have your 7.57 already for the fee's they charged you.[/quote]


Nevermind. You people must not get how paypal works. Read the above quote. He seems to be the only one who gets it.
 
paypal doesnt rip you off and here is proof..

i had 188.22 in my account

sold game for 24. 49 it was 23.48 after fees


before

188.22
211.70
AFTER REFUND Of the 24.49 game

188.22

see you lose nothing when you refund the person money,. do the account by hand and you will see you lost nothing
 
This is what a refund looks like if you refund the payment yourself:

Date Type Gross Fee Net
-34.50 1.30 33.20

This is what it looks like if paypal does it because of a claim:
Date Type Gross Fee Net
-186.50 0 186.50



Notice on the first they only took 33.20 from my account because that is all i recieved. They only take $33.20 because that is all i received



Notice on the 2nd they took all $186 eventhough i only received $178.93

GEEZ LISTEN UP PEOPLE!! IM NOT TALKING ABOUT REFUNDING IT YOURSELF!! IM TALKING ABOUT CLAIMS!!! If you are going to post at least know what is going on.
 
Everybody's been trying to help you realize you didn't get screwed but you don't want to go and check to verify. They did not take $186.50 from your account only the amount after fees.
 
Yes they did take $186.00. Are you people not reading the posts?

The last email from paypal says FEES are only refunded if a refund is given prior to a claim.

THEY DIDN'T GIVE ME THE FEES BACK THAT THEY TOOK!!! They even admitted it. OBVIOUSLY I DIDN'T GET $186.00 BACK!!! Read the first post!!!

All i am asking is if this is legal?

They took the fees from the $186.00 that i was paid. I received $178.93.

They then refunded him $186.00 from my account. I didn't receive $186.00. Paypal did not refund the $7.57 to me

How are you guys not seeing this?
 
Lesson: don't ship to Europe.

The money should be there if you didn't refund it yourself. Like somebody said above I'd be more concerned about losing the $170! It's not worth hours and hours of your time to argue with them. Yes Paypal sucks and yes they do rip people off very frequently but nothing we can do will change that. It's one of those things you have to live with...sorry dude.
 
Here's what you do, chief.

Take your balance before the refund. Subtract from that your balance after the refund. Just like magic, you're not out $7.57.

I can understand you being confued because those refund transactions are a little screwy. You're not out any money. Settle down, people here are trying to help you, and would do more so if you wouldn't be rude.
 
if you want to prove that everyone is wrong , instead of yelling at them - take a screenshot of your account screens illustrating your point
 
So he paid you $186, and you received $178 after fees.

PayPal then took $186 to refund back to him.

Therefore $178 (received) minus $186 (taken back) equals $8 ($7.57 to be exact).

But some people have been saying that even though it says $186 was taken from your account, that it was actually $178. Double check your account to make sure that this is not the case, and if it's not, take a screenshot showing the amount you received along with the amount that was taken from you.
 
I'm gonna take a stab at this...

Original Trans:
-186.50 Buyer
+186.50 Paypal
-178.93 Paypal
+178.93 Schuerm
= Paypal +7.57

What Should've Happened:
-178.93 Schuerm
+178.93 Paypal
-186.50 Paypal
+186.50 Buyer
= Paypal -7.57

What Happened that Schuerm is complaining about:
-186.50 Schuerm
+186.50 Paypal
-186.50 Paypal
+186.50 Buyer
= Schuerm -7.57

And to Schuerm, I think you "lost" the fees from Paypal because the Buyer filed a complaint first I'm guessing? So in case it's a fraudulent transaction, they take the full price from you. They should've refunded you tho. Try not saying the word fees because when they took the 186 from you, it's no longer a fee. They outright took 186 from you. You should just say that you recieved 178.93 but they took 186 instead and see where that gets you. Throwing the word fee is probably flagging something in the rep. This is the reason why I don't even take paypal as a payment option. When things go wrong, it goes wrong fast. Good luck with your struggles though. :)
 
Be careful sending anything overseas,I don't think your are covered with PP seller protection for selling to anywhere outside of the U.S.

PayPal CAN and WILL screw you over if you do not follow the Seller Protection
rules to the letter,and even if you do follow your end of the Seller Protection rules they will still BONE you.Check out Ebay's PayPal message board and have a look at the horror stories of sellers being scammed and PayPal doing nothing to protect sellers.Or check out paypalsucks.com
 
Exactly what has happened Orochi. It's not the $7.00 from me that im so concerned about. It is the $7.00 multiple times that concerns me. If they do this to tons of people (which im sure they do), that is a ton of money they are taking when they shouldn't be.
 
You will understand if you know some one who has a paypal account you send $.01 and then that money becomes nothing because of fees. Now you tell them to refund your penny and nothing deducts from your account.
 
[quote name='Luthien']Be careful sending anything overseas,I don't think your are covered with PP seller protection for selling to anywhere outside of the U.S.

PayPal CAN and WILL screw you over if you do not follow the Seller Protection
rules to the letter,and even if you do follow your end of the Seller Protection rules they will still BONE you.Check out Ebay's PayPal message board and have a look at the horror stories of sellers being scammed and PayPal doing nothing to protect sellers.Or check out paypalsucks.com[/QUOTE]

i got screwd out of 126 bucks. lucky the ebay protection covered me. paypal protection didnt do jack
 
[quote name='$hady']OP: The Jerk Store called.........THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF YOU![/QUOTE]

hahahahaaha.... I really dotn see the purpose of this thread. The OP is bitching about losing a whole 7 dollars, when the real matter here is the package getting lost (did you not get it insured?) and out almost 200 bucks. I just dont see the rationale here...
 
you guys have way too much faith in paypal doing anything correctly. it wasn't an automatic refund, he requested and they did it manually... and did it wrong. the guy is really out 7.57. it's happened to me before on a $400 transaction.
 
A bunch of idiots in this thread, I totally see what you're talking about. Instead of requesting the $178.xx that you received after fees, the buyer requested the full $186 even though you never got the whole thing because of fees, and now you're out $7.57. I don't understand how only a few people understood this.

I guess you should request the $7.57 from the buyer, since they requested too much from you.
 
Paypal is a robbing coniving company. I have had a paypal account for like 3 years ond used just occasionally. Well we decided to sell items on ebay. All of a sudden I got an email saying I was suspended because my account was linked to another user. I call and they tell me it is linked to another person with a @charter.net address and I need to resolve the BS on that account before I can have my money and they won't tell me another damn thing, not even the whoever @ charter.net part. I have a 900.00 balance that is locked without an explination. I filed a BBB Complaint since I couldn't get an answer and the response to the complaint was the same BS. Not sure how they can have a BBB seal of approval when they run this way
 
paypal fees: $8

paypal screwing up a claim: $8

going nuts about it on the CAG forums, yelling at people who may or may not get it: priceless
 
[quote name='schaecher']Paypal is a robbing coniving company. I have had a paypal account for like 3 years ond used just occasionally. Well we decided to sell items on ebay. All of a sudden I got an email saying I was suspended because my account was linked to another user. I call and they tell me it is linked to another person with a @charter.net address and I need to resolve the BS on that account before I can have my money and they won't tell me another damn thing, not even the whoever @ charter.net part. I have a 900.00 balance that is locked without an explination. I filed a BBB Complaint since I couldn't get an answer and the response to the complaint was the same BS. Not sure how they can have a BBB seal of approval when they run this way[/quote]

Having a 900 balance is a mistake to start with
 
The reason you don't get your 8 damn dollars is because the seller filled a complaint with PayPal. Its not PayPals fault the package go lost and its not yours either, but it is your fault that you didn't insure the package.

If you refunded the money you would have come out square because PayPal cant make money off a transaction that didn't happen. However, your 8 dollars are gone because Paypal had to get in the middle of the issue.
 
Your 8 dollars were used to pay for "protection". I suggest you don't get too heated about this or Vinny and Sal show up at your door with a crowbar and a pair of pliers.
 
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