Piracy and PSP game sales

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http://www.pspfanboy.com/2008/03/09/ridiculous-psp-piracy-numbers/

Rlan from NeoGAF took a look at just one torrent site and found the number of downloads of PSP games to be absolutely disgusting.

God of War: Chains of Olympus - 94,154
Patapon - 112,183
Ratchet & Clank - Size Matters - 197,113
Crush - 48,959
LOCO ROCO - 163,904
Wipeout Pulse - 116,965
Castlevania X Chronicles - 102,354
Metal Gear Solid - Portable Ops (Not Including Plus) - 231,054
Burnout Dominator - 269,486
Click to expand...

Now I'm not sure how legit those numbers are, but if they're real, that's terrible.
 
Piracy is a big problem for almost all consoles. It's is sad but it's kind of ironic that PSPfanboy is reporting on this given that they make a huge post every time a new custom firmware is released
 
Those numbers are sad, but CFW does't automatically make the user a pirate. It's a tool that thieves exploit to use for nefarious gains. Blame the individual douchebag who refuses to properly pay for goods.

Check the Amazon code thread for GoW COO. That's a lot of willing buyers.
 
Hibiwa, you can't absolve custom firmware makers of all the blame of piracy either, despite it being user choice. The fact is they make it much easier to pirate these games, and they know it. I'm pretty sure one of the motivations for them to make CFW is so that they don't have to pay for the latest games.

Simply put, it's these piracy numbers that are causing the PSP to have less games overall. I mean, why would a publisher or developer bother to put anything on the PSP if people will just pirate it easily. They'd just make something for the DS, which does have its own piracy problem, but makes up for it in much higher user base.
 
And this is 1 days worth of downloads right? Can't same that I am surprised. Pirators have ruined the PSP. I wish I knew the piracy was so rampant before I bought one, with all the people either pirating or using CFW to play games different than those made for PSP, no one is buying games for it anymore & less & less will be made. Dreamcast all over again. Sad.
 
why is this news? If they look at the number for rom/iso for DS, ps2, Xbox 360 or wii are going to be high. also with torrent site they have to factor in countries that dont get support.
 
[quote name='DM7000']Piracy is a big problem for almost all consoles. It's is sad but it's kind of ironic that PSPfanboy is reporting on this given that they make a huge post every time a new custom firmware is released[/quote]


That's why I think digital delivery ala Live Arcade will become commonplace once Internet2 comes around and realy high speed downloads are available. Of course, people will find ways around that too.

I can understand downloading obsolete titles that aren't available for retail anymore, but downloading things that are current is killing the industry. It isn't like music where songs are played on the radio for free. Games aren't delivered in that manner.
 
also the PS3 is the only system without piracy, but thats not enough to give it an edge over Xbox 360 or Wii
 
If you spend a lot of time online reading gaming-centric blogs and forums, of course it's going to appear that CFW makes up a large part of the PSP audience, but this is not typical. The torrent numbers are disappointing, but piracy is hardly killing the PSP.
 
[quote name='metaly']If you spend a lot of time online reading gaming-centric blogs and forums, of course it's going to appear that CFW makes up a large part of the PSP audience, but this is not typical. The torrent numbers are disappointing, but piracy is hardly killing the PSP.[/QUOTE]

Probably safe to safe it killed Crush, though.
 
Honestly, do you really think that the people who pirated all those games would have bought them if they couldn't "steal" them?
 
Not to defend piracy, but these numbers don't necessarily mean that sales would be higher. I would guess that a large percentage of those downloaders would not have bought the game if it wasn't available to download. They just grab anything and everything because it is easy and free.

EDIT: Beaten by a few seconds it seems.
 
[quote name='pete5883']Probably safe to safe it killed Crush, though.[/quote]
Or the fact that Crush had 0 marketing, a hideous cover, and it's the type of game that doesn't sell well anyways.
 
[quote name='NamPaehc']Honestly, do you really think that the people who pirated all those games would have bought them if they couldn't "steal" them?[/quote]

Yeah, there is no way of telling. Also people that downloaded a game might actually go out and buy it like I do. Still, the numbers would be incredibly high, but just like every other current game system.
 
[quote name='NamPaehc']Honestly, do you really think that the people who pirated all those games would have bought them if they couldn't "steal" them?[/QUOTE]

I agree... GBA games were much easier to obtain illegally because there are websites you can download them from and that didn't seem to hurt sales.
 
Thats a damn shame. There are a large number of CAGs that do this, and it makes me sick that they do not get banned for bragging/talking about stealing PSP games.
 
I do not like the idea of game piracy at all if the games are viable, if you can still purchase them. Whatever with that thought, however, I do enjoy the custom firmware for homebrew games and apps, putting ps1 games THAT I OWN on the card to play on the road, and yes the occasional emulator. But that's just my thoughts...bitch me out if you want, I'm still gonna play my nes/snes/genny roms on the psp because I enjoy those games on the road...when I'm at home, I'll plop them in the system. All in all, I'm a collector and just because I have a rom that wasn't obtained "legally" such as chronotrigger for example, doesn't mean I won't buy it if I run across it at a thrift or a flea market. And I would be the first one to buy that on the VC.

Well that was a rant and a half...I just finished up writing an essay for my master's course...so I needed a break from rational thinking.

Recap...just because you have cfw on your psp doesn't mean you are out to hurt game manufacturers/publishers/developers. Just because you have cfw doesn't mean you are out to obtain games illegally.
 
Boo fucking hoo.

[quote name='rodeojones903']Thats a damn shame. There are a large number of CAGs that do this, and it makes me sick that they do not get banned for bragging/talking about stealing PSP games.[/QUOTE]
Hey man, high five. I wish that people would get banned for hinting that they do illegal drugs, myself.
 
I downloaded 6 psp games that I was going to install in a psp I haven't gotten delivered yet. That school of thought vigorously tricked me into ordering the psp in the first place, so I could use it on one very long trip and back. But I decided and went ahead and bought the 6 games. I can afford these whimsical purchases, and don't feel like wasting time learning how to hack the psp to install the downloaded games until the next software update comes out. Anyway, the games I bought are the only games my psp will ever deal with.
 
When the PSP first came out, the games sucked and were too expensive. Now though, you can get all the great games for pretty cheap. I don't think handheld games should go over the $30 mark. Are PSP games doing terrible, or are they doing ok considering all the stuff like piracy, the strength of the DS, etc?
 
PSP software sales have plummeted in the last year despite large increases in hardware sales. Take a look at recent sales especially, Wipeout Pulse for instance. Even if you have CFW and do not pirate any games you're still contributing to lower PSP software sales in at least 2 ways.

One, you're playing any type of roms, apps, homebrew instead of buying PSP games (even if you do buy PSP games still, you're buying less than you would have). Two, you're contributing to the black market for items & software used to create CFW. If you're supporting the sale & distribution of such items (even if not by monetary exchanges) then you're making the market for them more viable, popular, and widely distributed.
 
[quote name='J7.']One, you're playing any type of roms, apps, homebrew instead of buying PSP games (even if you do buy PSP games still, you're buying less than you would have).[/quote]
Well, buying a PSP is not necessarily a promise to buy lots of games for it. I bought mine full well knowing that I'd never buy a retail game for it (because the UMD drive on it is completely and totally broken, so I don't really have a practical choice). Similar to how buying a PC with Windows pre-installed on it is not a promise to not immediately format the drive and install Linux.
 
"Thats a damn shame. There are a large number of CAGs that do this, and it makes me sick that they do not get banned for bragging/talking about stealing PSP games."

hey, have you stopped to ponder that maybe they are not cheap ass gamers, but instead a less privileged outfit in our realm, known as a broke ass gamer? The only play that beats cheaper is free, which is the holy grail of cheap. With some luck, broke ass gamers the world over may progress to join us at cheap ass gamer level, 'till then, that's just how it is.
 
Thats a damn shame. There are a large number of CAGs that do this, and it makes me sick that they do not get banned for bragging/talking about stealing PSP games.
Click to expand...

hey, have you stopped to ponder that maybe they are not cheap ass gamers, but instead a less privileged outfit in our realm, known as a broke ass gamer? The only play that beats cheaper is free, which is the holy grail of cheap. With some luck, broke ass gamers the world over may progress to join us at cheap ass gamer level, 'till then, that's just how it is.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Well, buying a PSP is not necessarily a promise to buy lots of games for it. I bought mine full well knowing that I'd never buy a retail game for it (because the UMD drive on it is completely and totally broken, so I don't really have a practical choice). Similar to how buying a PC with Windows pre-installed on it is not a promise to not immediately format the drive and install Linux.[/quote]

True, that goes for any system, and your case is atypical. Your analogy is not complete imo though because PC's are meant to be open, PSP's are not. Regardless of any of that though you're still contributing to lower PSP software sales. It's a fact. It's just an illustration not anything aimed at you as a big negative. The big negative is people who contribute to the CFW market & thus the piracy market. And of course the worst negative is those who do pirate. So there's basically a scale, with these 3 respective things contributing to lower PSP software sales at different degrees of severity.
 
[quote name='paycheck2paycheck haggler']hey, have you stopped to ponder that maybe they are not cheap ass gamers, but instead a less privileged outfit in our realm, known as a broke ass gamer? The only play that beats cheaper is free, which is the holy grail of cheap. With some luck, broke ass gamers the world over may progress to join us at cheap ass gamer level, 'till then, that's just how it is.[/QUOTE]

No, its not how it is. Just because you do not have the money to buy something, it doesn't mean its ok to steal it. I really want a Lambo, so I think I'll just go take one off the lot. Some people just don't have any morals, and try to justify what they do.

So know we know that every game CoffeeEdge has ever played on his PSP was stolen. Why else would you buy a PSP when you know beforehand that the UMD drive is broken?
 
[quote name='J7.']True, that goes for any system, and your case is atypical. Your analogy is not complete imo though because PC's are meant to be open, PSP's are not. Regardless of any of that though you're still contributing to lower PSP software sales. It's a fact. It's just an illustration not anything aimed at you as a big negative. The big negative is people who contribute to the CFW market & thus the piracy market. And of course the worst negative is those who do pirate. So there's basically a scale, with these 3 respective things contributing to lower PSP software sales at different degrees of severity.[/QUOTE]

No, I am not contributing to "lower PSP software sales." I am simply not contributing to what could theoretically/potentially be higher PSP software sales. There is a huge difference between these two things, and you really need to understand that.

I see that you clearly have a problem with CFW and the functionality it adds to the system, but the way I see it, CFW is simply delivering on Sony's original promise that the PSP would support homebrew software, which it initially did, when the system launched, and which Sony removed support for in the very first firmware update. They dropped the ball, and CFW simply pitched it back out again for those who wanted the full functionality that they were promised for their systems.

[quote name='rodeojones903']So know we know that every game CoffeeEdge has ever played on his PSP was stolen.[/QUOTE]

No, you don't. For all you know, I've done nothing but use it to play homebrew Tetris and Sudoku games, as well as read e-books, browse the web at Wifi hotspots, and play legally ripped MP3s using LightMP3 (which can play music for several times as long as the default music player, on the same amount of battery charge, due to it's lower CPU usage).

It's rude to assume.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']No, its not how it is. Just because you do not have the money to buy something, it doesn't mean its ok to steal it. I really want a Lambo, so I think I'll just go take one off the lot. Some people just don't have any morals, and try to justify what they do.

So know we know that every game CoffeeEdge has ever played on his PSP was stolen. Why else would you buy a PSP when you know beforehand that the UMD drive is broken?[/quote]

Plus you can get a lot of quality games for $15 or less.

I know when I got my PSP back in November 05, the game selection was slim pickings. I think the only worthwhile games IMO were Ridge Racer and GTA LCS. The games were just overpriced for a handheld game. Now though, there is a pretty nice selection of awesome games that don't rape your wallet every time you go to the store. I can see how for a while game sales sucked, but I would think by now it would turn around a bit.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']I really want a Lambo, so I think I'll just go take one off the lot.[/QUOTE]
There is a huge difference between this and software piracy, if you'd come off your high horse and think about it for a moment. There's a pretty huge difference between pirating a copy of Gran Turismo, and walking into Kazunori Yamauchi's driveway and driving off with his BMW Golf R32.

The difference is, that if you go out and steal a Lamborghini off a dealer's lot, then that dealer has lost a tangible piece of property and physical material. A car is an expressly limited piece of property; there are only so many of them in existence, and when one is stolen, there isn't a freely and instantly generated clone of it there to take it's place. The posession of the specific physical matter of an individual car can only be held by one person at a time.

But when someone downloads a pirated game over bittorrent or IRC or whatever, they are not removing the posession of that data from someone else. The data is cloned to each downloader. A leecher does not permanently remove the bits and the very magnetic data off of a seeder's harddrive. A thousand people could download a copy of a game from a single specific source, but only one person could steal a single specific individual Ferrari out of a single specific dealer's showroom.

I'm not saying that piracy is right or better or worse than any other form of theft. I'm just saying that it is not at all analogous/directly comparable to stealing a car.
 
I am against Piracy. I think that if you get something you should have to pay for it like everyone else.

Those games were made by people working regular jobs, why should you get their product for FREE? Are you fucking retarded, seriously? Do you really see it as different than walking into a Target store and stealing it off the shelf?

I have also avoided getting CFW on my PSP since I don't want to hassle with it if I buy a new game to play and I believe that it has ENABLED people to STEAL games.

I also like to OWN the ACTUAL GAME itself. They are relatively cheap and still have value after you have played them.

The only thing I would like is to be able to do is play my games off the MSPD but that would require the CFW that I have been purposely avoiding.
 
Just because you do not have the money to buy something, it doesn't mean its ok to steal it. I really want a Lambo, so I think I'll just go take one off the lot.

I am pro-homebrew because of the extra functionality that it brings to the psp that the carrot and stick consumers will never see. PSP software sales may be down but anyway you skin it, the psp's parent company laughs all the way to the bank. Whether its with psp sales, memory stick sales, psp batteries, etc. I don't think its fair to compare stealing a $400,000 tangible product to $15 to $30 intangible product which is a low res game that you probably already bought over and over with the PS1/PS2 iteration. There are only so many times you can get shack-fued by these conglomerates befores you begin to feel fleeced.
 
Just because you do not have the money to buy something, it doesn't mean its ok to steal it. I really want a Lambo, so I think I'll just go take one off the lot.
Click to expand...

I am pro-homebrew because of the extra functionality that it brings to the psp that the carrot and stick consumers will never see. PSP software sales may be down but anyway you skin it, the psp's parent company laughs all the way to the bank. Whether its with psp sales, memory stick sales, psp batteries, etc. I don't think its fair to compare stealing a $400,000 tangible product to $15 to $30 intangible product which is a low res game that you probably already bought over and over with the PS1/PS2 iteration. There are only so many times you can get shaq-fued by these conglomerates befores you begin to feel fleeced.
 
[quote name='Nephilim']Those games were made by people working regular jobs, why should you get their product for FREE? Are you fucking retarded, seriously? Do you really see it as different than walking into a Target store and stealing it off the shelf?[/QUOTE]

Are you too fucking retarded to see how I explained the difference between the two, directly above your post?

There is a difference between stealing data, and physical material (such as a game disc/cart). Both are still a crime and bad, yes, but very, very different.
 
[quote name='J7.']True, that goes for any system, and your case is atypical. Your analogy is not complete imo though because PC's are meant to be open, PSP's are not. Regardless of any of that though you're still contributing to lower PSP software sales. It's a fact. It's just an illustration not anything aimed at you as a big negative. The big negative is people who contribute to the CFW market & thus the piracy market. And of course the worst negative is those who do pirate. So there's basically a scale, with these 3 respective things contributing to lower PSP software sales at different degrees of severity.[/QUOTE]I agree there buddy. :) I really love the PSP and enjoyed many games for it. However, I notice many of its games do not sell. At various forums and internet sites I have gone to, several mentioned how they pirate PSP games and such. One reason I've been so anti-custom firmware, anti-devhook, or whatever piracy/PSP alteration (other than D-pad mod) over the years is because it saddens me to sell awesome PSP games just not selling.

I completely believe the numbers. Many tell me they plan to buy a PSP, with no games and a big memory stick. That just angers me so much. I try very hard to support my PSP, since I want more games coming to it, and it's just sad to see some developers abandon it due to their great game not selling (and people are pirating it or something).

I'll rant more about this tomorrow morning.
[quote name='Blackout542']Plus you can get a lot of quality games for $15 or less.

I know when I got my PSP back in November 05, the game selection was slim pickings. I think the only worthwhile games IMO were Ridge Racer and GTA LCS. The games were just overpriced for a handheld game. Now though, there is a pretty nice selection of awesome games that don't rape your wallet every time you go to the store. I can see how for a while game sales sucked, but I would think by now it would turn around a bit.[/QUOTE]Actually, I disagree about the PSP software selection at the time you mentioned. I personally felt PSP had the 2nd greatest launch ever after the Dreamcast, with games like Wipeout Pure, Metal Gear Acid, Lumines, Ridge Racer, Twisted Metal: Head On, Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee a little later, etc. I actually owned over 10 early games and enjoyed them all. But once Summer hit, PSP did slow down quite a bit and didn't start picking up until Q4 05, but really did awesome in 2006.

Actually, PSP game sales were actually very strong initially. Early on in NPD from what I believe, there were many PSP games selling towards the top in 05. But after that, PSP sales took a downward spiral.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Are you too fucking retarded to see how I explained the difference between the two, directly above your post?

There is a difference between stealing data, and physical material (such as a game disc/cart). Both are still a crime and bad, yes, but very, very different.[/QUOTE]

I read your post. Your explanation does not change the fact that it is stealing. When dealing with CONSUMABLE MEDIA, be it games or magazines, once you have used and posessed it, you have stolen it, period.

I do see a minor difference between games that are no longer available for retail sale, like NES games. Stealing those only hurts the SECONDARY MARKET like eBay, pawn shops, etc.

If you downloaded God of War for PSP, you are hurting PSP sales and indirectly the rest of us who actually PAY for our games.
 
[quote name='Nephilim']
If you downloaded God of War for PSP, you are hurting PSP sales and indirectly the rest of us who actually PAY for our games.[/quote]

Truth. I hate piracy, and I think the excuses for it are pathetic. "I have no money". Hint:
JOB=$$$
I don't dl stuff illegally and I never will. I don't enjoy industries and peoples jobs getting hurt because of slime balls.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']I'll rant more about this tomorrow morning.[/QUOTE]
Is that a threat? Are you threatening me?

[quote name='Nephilim']I read your post. Your explanation does not change the fact that it is stealing. When dealing with CONSUMABLE MEDIA, be it games or magazines, once you have used and posessed it, you have stolen it, period.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's still stealing, but also yes, as I said, it is still different from physical theft. I didn't say better or worse; just different.
 
[quote name='Nephilim']

If you downloaded God of War for PSP, you are hurting PSP sales and indirectly the rest of us who actually PAY for our games.[/QUOTE]Exactly, and when people keep doing this, developers will just forget about developing for PSP, hurting us PSP owners who are eager to buy games. Also, those people who pirate are hurting themselves because they'll eventually have nothing else to pirate if developers pull the plug.
 
Piracy is going to be the sole reason Steam will take over the PC industry and the reason Microsoft/other companies are "testing" downloadable games. It's going to be a shame when we will no longer are able to buy real copies of games and not be able to trade/sell our used games. However, at the same time companies like Gamestop/EB will try to interfere with this process in the long run considering their profit on used games.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Exactly, and when people keep doing this, developers will just forget about developing for PSP, hurting us PSP owners who are eager to buy games. Also, those people who pirate are hurting themselves because they'll eventually have nothing else to pirate if developers pull the plug.[/QUOTE]
Why the fuck do you guys seem to think that the issue and effects of piracy on PSP are unique at all? As if it were some sort of problem unique to PSP? Seriously, it's the same on every computer and game system, pretty much.

[quote name='Monsta Mack']Piracy is going to be the sole reason Steam will take over the PC industry and the reason Microsoft/other companies are "testing" downloadable games. It's going to be a shame when we will no longer are able to buy real copies of games and not be able to trade/sell our used games. However, at the same time companies like Gamestop/EB will try to interfere with this process in the long run considering their profit on used games.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha, riiight, because Steam prevents piracy. Oh, wait, no it doesn't. I doesn't even make it any more difficult, really. Steam doesn't change a damned thing.
 
[quote name='Nephilim']I read your post. Your explanation does not change the fact that it is stealing. When dealing with CONSUMABLE MEDIA, be it games or magazines, once you have used and posessed it, you have stolen it, period.

I do see a minor difference between games that are no longer available for retail sale, like NES games. Stealing those only hurts the SECONDARY MARKET like eBay, pawn shops, etc.

If you downloaded God of War for PSP, you are hurting PSP sales and indirectly the rest of us who actually PAY for our games.[/QUOTE]

It's not stealing... it's infringing on copyright. Big difference. It's comments like this that have our copyright system in the mess it's in now...

Regardless of how it affects sales of PSP software, it does not equate to theft. (And there's no guarantee someone who copied a game would have bought it if it had been the only way to acquire it... otherwise the RIAA would write off their piracy losses directly on their taxes...)

But nonetheless, it's a moral issue that a sensible copyright policy and return to the intention of copyright in general as it's spelled out in the Constitution would alleviate much better than harsher penalties and two-fisted rants...

But it's not stealing. It never was... nor will it be. It's a TORT....
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']It's not stealing... it's infringing on copyright. Big difference. It's comments like this that have our copyright system in the mess it's in now...

Regardless of how it affects sales of PSP software, it does not equate to theft. (And there's no guarantee someone who copied a game would have bought it if it had been the only way to acquire it... otherwise the RIAA would write off their piracy losses directly on their taxes...)

But nonetheless, it's a moral issue that a sensible copyright policy and return to the intention of copyright in general as it's spelled out in the Constitution would alleviate much better than harsher penalties and two-fisted rants...

But it's not stealing. It never was... nor will it be. It's a TORT....[/QUOTE]

Bravo. :)
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Why the fuck do you guys seem to think that the issue and effects of piracy on PSP are unique at all? As if it were some sort of problem unique to PSP? Seriously, it's the same on every computer and game system, pretty much.[/QUOTE]Let's just say someone at GAF[/quote] posted the number of torrent sites for each platform, and this is what he saw:
Windows 22106
PSP 6709
PS 2 6056
XBox 1692
Nintendo DS 1559
Wii 1333
PS X 1223
Other platforms 1218
ROMS / Retro 1000
XBox 360 645
Dreamcast 595
Game fixes/patches 556
Windows - Kids Games 449
GameCube 429
Video Demonstrations 308
Mobile phones 271
Mac 222
Linux 114
Sega Saturn 86
Palm, PocketPC & IPAQ 81
Click to expand...

If PSP is the top non-PC, hardware sells very well, but the software sales are crap, that really tells you something. Piracy is definitely hurting PSP regardless. Now, not all those people who downloaded will buy the game, but I'd say PSP game sales would definitely be more reasonable if it wasn't for piracy. Piracy is indeed a problem, no matter how you try to spin this.
 
I hurt PSP game sales too. I think I've only purchased maybe one or two PSP games. The other 40 or so games I bought used here or got from goozex.
 
[quote name='magiic']I hurt PSP game sales too. I think I've only purchased maybe one or two PSP games. The other 40 or so games I bought used here or got from goozex.[/QUOTE]Well, I just hate the idea of pirating. Used games is done for any platform. There's no denying I bought a few used PSP games, but around 90% were new.
 
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