Plan to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero Riles Families of 9/11 Victims

I don't know if EVERY mosque opponent shares the teabag sentiment posted above.

It is amazing to see how Al Qaeda shapes Knoell's opinion. 'Oh Al Qaeda will cheer for the mosque so it's douchy and it shouldn't be built there!'

OT, Glenn Beck is holding a rally on 8/28 at the Lincoln Memorial, the anniversary of the 'I have a dream' speech.

Some African-American groups think its douchy to have an army of white people congregate there on that day. I hope Knoell will fight the good fight and argue that Glenn Beck should move the rally's place and date.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='speedracer']Well, someone has to try to put a rational face on your crap. If you're really swinging for the fences with money as the reason, you're probably sobbing while writing it.

It was meant to be an inside comment/joke if you were Jewish. It's one of those comments that confers juuuuuuuuuuust a little more than the dictionary leads you to believe. Obviously you missed that. But yea, this is a totally rational response to a joke. I guess you're passing on the Yassin comment because it was a more obvious joke and you can't feign faux outrage over my idiocy on that one.

You need a qualified mental heath professional.[/QUOTE]
I'll bow out of this thread as I have a wedding to go to and nothing constructive is coming out, just people throwing around the word bigot and pathetic attempts at condescending trolling.

As for an inside comment/joke, I never even heard of the acronym, but that doesn't surprise me as Jewish people randomly embrace and do weird things(like embracing "Heeb"). I'm sorry that I'm not a Brooklyn cowboy and your joke didn't work. It's not faux outrage, you're just an idiot, I'm content with that. Nothing simple or shady about it, no lines to read between.

Peace in the Middle East.
 
[quote name='IRHari']OT, Glenn Beck is holding a rally on 8/28 at the Lincoln Memorial, the anniversary of the 'I have a dream' speech.

Some African-American groups think its douchy to have an army of white people congregate there on that day. I hope Knoell will fight the good fight and argue that Glenn Beck should move the rally's place and date.[/QUOTE]

But that was like 40 years ago. Sounds to me like those LIEberals need to stop being such pussies and read up on a little thing called the first amendment. :cool:
 
The funny thing is that the bigots don't understand Al Qaeda wins if the mosque DOESN'T get built.

As for Glenn Beck, he's a douche but he can congregate anywhere he wants. He can also pretend to like MLK all he wants since it just brings more attention to a great speech.
 
[quote name='depascal22']The funny thing is that the bigots don't understand Al Qaeda wins if the mosque DOESN'T get built.[/QUOTE]

Extreme Muslims spin anything into an Islamic victory no matter what. Oppression of their own women, irritating Israel to the point of blockades and attacks, suicide bombings, etc. all equal victory. So what you said is probably true. However, it is incredibly idiotic and myopic. If it is not built, it may be a victory but only a transient one. Instead, if it is built, the mosque's presence would be a victory for decades to come and serve as monument to the 9/11 actions and recruitment tool.

The funny thing is how dumb your post sounded.
 
[quote name='depascal22']The funny thing is that the bigots don't understand Al Qaeda wins if the mosque DOESN'T get built.
[/QUOTE]

Doubly true. On Fareed Zakaria GPS he just pointed out that Al Qaeda recently carried out a suicide bombing of a mosque for this particular sect of Islam. It's one of their most hated sects, being about peace etc. and opposing jihad.

So that's a pretty big blow to the argument that Al Qaeda and other extremists would consider this mosque being built a victory.
 
[quote name='tivo']Extreme Muslims spin anything into an Islamic victory no matter what. Oppression of their own women, irritating Israel to the point of blockades and attacks, suicide bombings, etc. all equal victory. So what you said is probably true. However, it is incredibly idiotic and myopic. If it is not built, it may be a victory but only a transient one. Instead, if it is built, the mosque's presence would be a victory for decades to come and serve as monument to the 9/11 actions and recruitment tool.

The funny thing is how dumb your post sounded.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if you actually hear yourself talking sometimes. Do you honestly think Islamic extremists would flock to this particular mosque when they can and do go to the many that are already in this country? Your point of view is just plain stupid and not even worth debating anymore.
 
[quote name='tivo']Extreme Muslims spin anything into an Islamic victory no matter what. Oppression of their own women, irritating Israel to the point of blockades and attacks, suicide bombings, etc. all equal victory. So what you said is probably true. However, it is incredibly idiotic and myopic. If it is not built, it may be a victory but only a transient one. Instead, if it is built, the mosque's presence would be a victory for decades to come and serve as monument to the 9/11 actions and recruitment tool.

The funny thing is how dumb your post sounded.[/QUOTE]

When people say things like this it just blows my mind.
 
[quote name='tivo']Extreme Muslims spin anything into an Islamic victory no matter what. [/QUOTE]
If this is the case, then its not an argument for or against anything. They'll just spin anything into a victory, no matter what.

It means we shouldnt be taking cues from them.
 
Im curious as to why more democrats arent speaking out against Harry Reid, I thought it was only republicans who let their "party leaders" speak nonsense without speaking out against it.
http://www.pottsmerc.com/articles/2010/08/17/news/srv0000009120453.txt

For more discussion I thought I would provide the FAQ from the Cordoba Initiatives website.
http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/frequently-asked-questions

Why did you choose this site so close to Ground Zero?
We were always close to the World Trade Center. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has been the Imam of a mosque twelve blocks from the Twin Towers for the last 27 years.
Click to expand...


Who is funding the community center?
No funds for this project have been raised to date. A project of this scale will require very diverse fundraising sources, including individuals from all faiths and beliefs –who are committed to peace and understanding. We expect that our sources of funding will include individuals of different religions, charitable organizations, public funds, institutional and corporate sponsors.
Click to expand...

How did you purchase the building?
SoHo Properties, a New York real estate development firm based in lower Manhattan, acquired the property a couple of years ago. Sharif El Gamal, owner of SoHo Properties, is a member of Imam Feisal’s lower Manhattan congregation that has been in the neighborhood for a number of years.
Click to expand...

Isn’t this insensitive given that the 9/11 attackers were Muslims?

The events of 9/11 were horrific. What happened that day was terrorism, and it shames us that it was cloaked in the guise of Islam. It was inhumane, un-Islamic and is indefensible regardless of one’s religious persuasion. Not only Americans but also all Muslims are threatened by the lies and actions being perpetrated by these self-serving extremists and their perverted view of Islam.
The community center will be a platform to amplify the voices of the overwhelming majority of Muslims whose love for America and commitment to peace gets drowned out by the actions of a few extremists. It will become a platform where the voices of those who resist religious extremism and terrorism can be amplified and celebrated.
Click to expand...

But, why not build it a little bit farther away? Let’s say a mile away?
No one should be driven out of his or her own neighborhood – especially for religious reasons. It is unconstitutional and un-American. Our congregation has been peacefully worshipping in this area for almost three decades. Our neighbors have encouraged us to remain here and the City and the Community Board have encouraged our continued presence here. The community has backed up their support by approving every resolution and challenge in the community center’s favor.
Click to expand...

The FAQ from the website, they had very well thought out answers but I want to know then was the building they came into possession of, a coincidence or on purpose? None of these answers say why they picked that building. Coincidence doesn't seem likely. And if they moved the mosque to a building down the road would the nation be as sensitive about it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Uh Knoell, it says right in the text you posted that SoHo Properties bought the building a few years ago, and the guy who owns SoHo Properties is a member of the Imam's congregation that has existed for years. Considering that the guy is a member of the congregation, I'm guessing he decided to donate the building to be used for this. Granted that isn't the Beck-like conspiracy you may be searching for, but it's probably the most likely.
 
Even if they put it there on purpose, why does that matter since they had nothing to do with 9/11? They vehemently condemend 9/11. They had nothing to do with 9/11 and they can and should put the mosque anywhere they damn please.
 
[quote name='Clak']Uh Knoell, it says right in the text you posted that SoHo Properties bought the building a few years ago, and the guy who owns SoHo Properties is a member of the Imam's congregation that has existed for years. Considering that the guy is a member of the congregation, I'm guessing he decided to donate the building to be used for this. Granted that isn't the Beck-like conspiracy you may be searching for, but it's probably the most likely.[/QUOTE]

So you think they just looked through a catalog of buildings from SoHo Properties and found that one to be suitable? I am not saying theres a conspiracy at all, I am just saying that I think they are building it there for the symbolism of the destroyed building and not because they just happened to come across it as the FAQ suggests.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Even if they put it there on purpose, why does that matter since they had nothing to do with 9/11? They vehemently condemend 9/11. They had nothing to do with 9/11 and they can and should put the mosque anywhere they damn please.[/QUOTE]

You are correct in this. Not sure why you keep repeating it, noone argues against it.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You are correct in this. Not sure why you keep repeating it, noone argues it.[/QUOTE]

It is true no one has "argued" it, plenty have said it.
 
[quote name='Knoell']So you think they just looked through a catalog of buildings from SoHo Properties and found that one to be suitable? I am not saying theres a conspiracy at all, I am just saying that I think they are building it there for the symbolism of the destroyed building and not because they just happened to come across it as the FAQ suggests.[/QUOTE]
I already said what I think, the guy who owns it is a member of the congregation, the idea to build this place probably came up and when he found out about it, donated this property. It isn't uncommon for members of churches to do the same thing.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You are correct in this. Not sure why you keep repeating it, noone argues it.[/QUOTE]

Then there's no point in asking questions about why they put it there. You apparently agree with me that the answer to the question shouldn't matter at all.

We're asking for greater transparency from this group of people compared to other groups trying to build religious buildings.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Then there's no point in asking questions about why they put it there. You apparently agree with me that the answer to the question shouldn't matter at all.

We're asking for greater transparency from this group of people compared to other groups trying to build religious buildings.[/QUOTE]

What other religious groups are building religious buildings in the direct vicinity of an attack done in the name of their religion, but do not share the perpetraters extremist beliefs?

This situation is unique, do not try to lump it in with "oh people dont protest churches". Also there are hundreds if not thousands of mosques all over the country where is all the protest and religious intolerance for all of them? Oh I am sure youll give me a link for one and generalize the rest of the country to feel the same way.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Election year, also he's a shithead. Does that make you feel any better?[/QUOTE]

Well its was obvious he is playing politics for reelection, I am just wondering why the same people who made a thread asking "why Republicans dont condemn Rush Limaughs remarks" won't make a thread wondering why democrats aren't condemning the democrat leader of the house of representatives remarks?
 
[quote name='Knoell']Well its was obvious he is playing politics for reelection, I am just wondering why the same people who made a thread asking "why Republicans dont condemn Rush Limaughs remarks" won't make a thread wondering why democrats aren't condemning the democrat leader of the house of representatives remarks?[/QUOTE]
Because we know why politicians in the same party usually refrain from criticizing each other, Limbaugh however is not a politician and no one should be afraid of criticizing him. That fact that Republicans usually leave him alone says volumes about Limbaugh's power though.
 
I love how Knoell copy and pastes from the Cordoba FAQ which pretty much gives rational answers to every single one of his questions and concerns, then goes on to debate it. I haven't ever been to their website, so you've already got me beat there. Sure you aren't a closet muzzie?

Let's say they want to build there for no reason other than because they are hopeful that unicorns and rainbows will burst from the site. The End. I have no idea what is even being debated at this point. Everyone agrees they have the right to build there, 2-3 posters in 17 pages of posts don't think they should evoke that right for purely emotional reasons. A few Glenn Beck slams, a couple "the muslims hate us for our freedom posts", it seems like we're about a page or two away from the South Park cop posting, letting us know there's nothing to see here, move along.
 
[quote name='Clak']Because we know why politicians in the same party usually refrain from criticizing each other, Limbaugh however is not a politician and no one should be afraid of criticizing him. That fact that Republicans usually leave him alone says volumes about Limbaugh's power though.[/QUOTE]

Also, again, election year. It's a tight race and they aren't going to speak out against him because it would cost them a seat.
 
[quote name='depascal22'] Do you honestly think Islamic extremists would flock to this particular mosque when they can and do go to the many that are already in this country? Your point of view is just plain stupid and not even worth debating anymore.[/QUOTE]

No one will be "flocking" to it. They will be using it as a symbol. Imagine if any other religion built a church, synagogue, temple, etc. in Mecca. Muslims would take it as a huge blow to their religion and cause. Its all about symbolism to these people. I destroyed your point and you should realize this unless you don't know what symbolism is.

[quote name='whoknows']When people say things like this it just blows my mind.[/QUOTE]

That's because you can't put yourself into the shoes of an Islamic extremist. They live under Shariah law. They have honor killings. They blow up themselves and innocent people. They torture, oppress, and kill. They have very little material to champion their way of life and so they either use fear (like the above) or political exploits. This mosque would fall under the latter.

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']If this is the case, then its not an argument for or against anything. They'll just spin anything into a victory, no matter what.

It means we shouldnt be taking cues from them.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. We should just do whatever "WE THE PEOPLE" want. it looks like the majority of people don't want it there (about 70% of the population). Maybe in a few years they can try again but right now people would prefer if it was moved farther away. People don't want convicted pedophiles in their neighborhood. They don't want highways or power lines in their back yards or strip clubs near schools. The community can ask for these things to be moved farther away. That's their right.

I would like to hear from Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and the rest about the possibility of moving the mosque to another location. Just to see if any other options existed! Certainly real estate is available in Manhattan but if they came back and said they've looked and showed us that this is the only place to have it then I think a lot of us would be more sympathetic. That's how it works.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='tivo']Exactly. We should just do whatever "WE THE PEOPLE" want. it looks like the majority of people don't want it there (about 70% of the population). Maybe in a few years they can try again but right now people would prefer if it was moved farther away. People don't want convicted pedophiles in their neighborhood. They don't want highways or power lines in their back yards or strip clubs near schools. They community can ask that these things can be moved farther away. Its very simple. [/QUOTE]

I agree. Let's get those negros back out of our schools, theaters and churches. Segregation is what the people want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgH7WgtIU2k&feature=search
 
[quote name='IRHari']OT, Glenn Beck is holding a rally on 8/28 at the Lincoln Memorial, the anniversary of the 'I have a dream' speech.

Some African-American groups think its douchy to have an army of white people congregate there on that day. I hope Knoell will fight the good fight and argue that Glenn Beck should move the rally's place and date.[/QUOTE]

A better analogy would be the KKK building a shrine to the beliefs of the KKK near the Lorraine Motel in Memphis.

Not *all* KKK members believe in shooting black people, so it's all good, right?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The whole point of being a republic rather than a democracy is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.[/QUOTE]

I like this idea!
 
[quote name='UncleBob']A better analogy would be the KKK building a shrine to the beliefs of the KKK near the Lorraine Motel in Memphis.

Not *all* KKK members believe in shooting black people, so it's all good, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes, Muslims are on par with the KKK.

I'm glad we are finally getting to the meat of this issue.
 
Dude I don't give a fuck about Glenn Beck's 8/28 rally. I don't care where he holds it, or when he holds it. I was trying to see if Knoell would treat all of these dumb controversies equally.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Yes, Muslims are on par with the KKK.

I'm glad we are finally getting to the meat of this issue.[/QUOTE]

No, Muslims are on par with Nazis. Don't you listen to the well-respected Newt Gingrich?
 
[quote name='Sporadic']I agree. Let's get those negros back out of our schools, theaters and churches. Segregation is what the people want.
[/QUOTE]

Common man. You know I didn't mean that and my analogies prove it. There is no way racial segregation would come back. If you don't believe this, you yourself are influenced too much by racism and bigotry in your personal life too look past yourself and see that the country is in no danger of falling back. Its either that or you're intentionally distracting from my point and being a total prick who should be removed from serious discussion.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Dude I don't give a fuck about Glenn Beck's 8/28 rally. I don't care where he holds it, or when he holds it. I was trying to see if Knoell would treat all of these dumb controversies equally.[/QUOTE]

Yet they're not equal. So why would you honestly expect anyone to treat them equally?
 
tivo,

It certainly like you meant "WE THE PEOPLE" as meaning the only ones who matter are White and Christians (no doubt only the conservative ones at that).
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The whole point of being a republic rather than a democracy is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.[/QUOTE]

True. But also to protect the citizens from both internal and external powers, whether they be private companies, religious institutions, our own government, or wherever the funding for this mosque comes from (I'm assuming Iran, Saudi Arabia, and others)
 
[quote name='tivo']Common man. You know I didn't mean that and my analogies prove it. There is no way racial segregation would come back. If you don't believe this, you yourself are influenced too much by racism and bigotry in your personal life too look past yourself and see that the country is in no danger of falling back. Its either that or you're intentionally distracting from my point and being a total prick who should be removed from serious discussion.[/QUOTE]

The South was forced to desegregate and using your own argument, they shouldn't have since "WE THE PEOPLE" of the South didn't want it. Hence me posting a video of Strom Thurmond making a speech where he said "there's not enough troops in the army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the n.i.g.ger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches."

And you are giving Americans way too much credit if you think that it can't happen again. There is a large amount of people who would love to push the gays back into the closet, send Hispanic people back to Mexico and put blacks back into their place so white people they can return to some 1950s Leave It To Beaver/Father Knows Best pipe dream.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Yet they're not equal. So why would you honestly expect anyone to treat them equally?[/QUOTE]

Knoell thinks we should kowtow to people's emotions when deciding whether to do things.

A) People think it's insensitive to build a mosque near GZ.

B) People think it's insensitive to have a large group of white people congregate on the Lincoln Memorial on the day of MLK's 'I have a dream' speech.

I don't think A holds water unless you think all Muslims = Al Qaeda.

I don't think B holds water unless you think large group of white people = KKK.
 
All analogies break down eventually. This analogy breaks down pretty quickly because you're focusing on arguments about insensitivity which only exist if you paint with a broad brush. You can't do that. They're both crappy arguments.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You are correct in this. Not sure why you keep repeating it, noone argues against it.[/QUOTE]

We keep repeating it because we keep finding knuckleheads who don't believe it. Take this guy, for instance:

[quote name='Knoell']I am not saying theres a conspiracy at all, I am just saying that I think they are building it there for the symbolism of the destroyed building and not because they just happened to come across it as the FAQ suggests.[/QUOTE]
 
The KKK can work as a decent analogy to Al Qaeda - the KKK is itself a protestant Christian group that uses that Christian identity as part of the reason and purpose for their terrorism as Al Qaeda does with Islam.

Where you'd lose it is comparing the KKK to Islam in general (which would be like comparing Al Qaeda to Christianity).
 
[quote name='SpazX']
Where you'd lose it is comparing the KKK to Islam in general (which would be like comparing Al Qaeda to Christianity).[/QUOTE]

Yep, especially when again the particular sect of Islam behind this Mosque is hated by Al Qaeda and recently had another Mosque hit by a suicide bombing.
 
[quote name='tivo']
That's because you can't put yourself into the shoes of an Islamic extremist. They live under Shariah law. They have honor killings. They blow up themselves and innocent people. They torture, oppress, and kill. They have very little material to champion their way of life and so they either use fear (like the above) or political exploits. This mosque would fall under the latter.

[/QUOTE]

The way you're saying it is that they are building the mosque as some sort of trophy over what happened in 9/11. You should go inside a mosque someday and see what goes on in it. Sounds like you think it's a place where Muslims gather to hate on America and plan terrorist attacks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top