Plan to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero Riles Families of 9/11 Victims

[quote name='Knoell']Sigh....[/QUOTE]

So, ten days ago, 3 months and a day after the start of this thread. I guess it's safe to say that's your first post in this thread, then, yes?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So, ten days ago, 3 months and a day after the start of this thread. I guess it's safe to say that's your first post in this thread, then, yes?[/QUOTE]
my first post was eleven days ago? do your own research man especially when you are attacking someone lol.
 
[quote name='Knoell']my first post was eleven days ago? do your own research man especially when you are attacking someone lol.[/QUOTE]

That's precisely my point. I *know* your first post condemning the mosque was more than ten days ago.

My point is that your argument continually shifts to suit your needs - you refuse to recognize the folly of your side, shifting your point rather than changing your mind and embracing the law and the constitution. You find new frames to use by reading right-wing blogs, showing how dependent you are on others doing the work for you, and how uninterested you are in actually having a discussion. You are rarely correct and you never concede anything. Do you think that is a noble combination of traits?
 
There's already a Catholic church in the neighborhood, iirc (from looking up where the strip club is). The US Constitution basically says this: Congress is forbidden from trying to make one religion more special than another, and from stopping people from worshiping as they please. I wonder if there's an example of citizens protesting the construction of a Christian church over some location involving the KKK... Osama Bin-Laden admitted the bombers weren't proper Muslims also.
 
No. That Catholic Church was already there so it doesn't count. All new construction has to be run through the 9/11 Victims Construction Commission first and last.

/sarcasm
 
[quote name='depascal22']No. That Catholic Church was already there so it doesn't count. All new construction has to be run through the 9/11 Victims Construction Commission first and last.

/sarcasm[/QUOTE]

Those 9/11 Victims have to be vetted by Fox News and other con apparatchiks first, otherwise their opinion doesn't count.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's precisely my point. I *know* your first post condemning the mosque was more than ten days ago.

My point is that your argument continually shifts to suit your needs - you refuse to recognize the folly of your side, shifting your point rather than changing your mind and embracing the law and the constitution. You find new frames to use by reading right-wing blogs, showing how dependent you are on others doing the work for you, and how uninterested you are in actually having a discussion. You are rarely correct and you never concede anything. Do you think that is a noble combination of traits?[/QUOTE]

Lol, Or I just noticed this thread 11 days ago.

My argument has changed? huh thats news to me, since I am on trial for not falling on your side of the argument, do me a favor and find where it changes just once. If you are referring to me describing the different aspects of why people are upset, then I don't know what to tell you. There are different reasons and points to an argument, I guess you will just have to deal with it. How terrible of me to bring out the true reasons this is being so opposed besides the made up one that we are all bigots because we aren't in favor of any mosques being built in NYC at all, despite there being MANY MANY mosques there already. It cant possibly have anything to do with 9/11, nope, no uh, no siree bob.
 
[quote name='Knoell']My argument has changed? huh thats news to me...[/quote]

Yes Knoell.

I am certain your surprise is genuine because it isn't as if you have ever moved a goalpost before.
 
All I can say is that I love and appreciate all of the newcomers to the "Private Property Rights" league. Welcome! Pull up a chair and have a cookie...
 
I hate that Bloomberg extended term limits, but he's been one of the most passionate defenders of Park 51. Here he is yet again, since some people aren't acknowledging the other side of the debate:

[quote name='Mayor Bloomberg']But if we say that a mosque and community center should not be built near the perimeter of the World Trade Center site, we would compromise our commitment to fighting terror with freedom.

We would undercut the values and principles that so many heroes died protecting. We would feed the false impressions that some Americans have about Muslims. We would send a signal around the world that Muslim Americans may be equal in the eyes of the law, but separate in the eyes of their countrymen. And we would hand a valuable propaganda tool to terrorist recruiters, who spread the fallacy that America is at war with Islam.
Islam did not attack the World Trade Center -- Al-Qaeda did. To implicate all of Islam for the actions of a few who twisted a great religion is unfair and un-American. Today we are not at war with Islam -- we are at war with Al-Qaeda and other extremists who hate freedom.[/QUOTE]
 
What you left out was that kid is part of a group that is very supportive of the mosque, and didn't mention it at all according to statements given by the driver. Oh well.

http://gawker.com/5621901/

edit: I shouldn't have said forgot to mention, I should have said just had no idea about who/what/why he did what he did.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Thank God these debates have been peaceful. It would be a shame if people started getting hurt over this lunacy...queue link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/25/AR2010082503949.html?hpid=topnews[/QUOTE]


This somehow sounds familiar, taking one person's actions and expanding them over an entire group of people that had nothing to do with it. I wonder where I've heard complaining about this before.....

If one person (or even a thousand) in the United States attacks a muslim we must all hate muslims right?
 
[quote name='depascal22']yes, knoell. When does the wound stop being fresh? When can we go about our business? When do we stop being held hostage to terror?[/quote]

neva 4get!!1!
 
[quote name='Knoell']This somehow sounds familiar, taking one person's actions and expanding them over an entire group of people that had nothing to do with it. I wonder where I've heard complaining about this before.....

If one person (or even a thousand) in the United States attacks a muslim we must all hate muslims right?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry that you didn't understand that my statement was sarcastic.

Troy, I actually elected to go to several other sites to read up on the guy, and right now IMO it's mixed what his positions are. He was a freelancer for a group that is in favor of the mosque, but his documentaries have been all about supporting our troops overseas and upon their return. I have no idea if he's personally sympathetic to those who want to build the mosque or not, but from the few links I read, I don't/didn't think one position or the other can be fairly confirmed.
 
It makes me sick that Mayor Bloomberg called Islam a "great religion." Nothing is great about it. Especially its anti-woman sentiment.
 
[quote name='fallmoon']it makes me sick that mayor bloomberg called islam a "great religion." nothing is great about it. Especially its anti-woman sentiment.[/quote]

qq
 
[quote name='FallMoon']It makes me sick that Mayor Bloomberg called Catholicism a "great religion." Nothing is great about it. Especially its pro-pedophilia sentiment.[/QUOTE]

Fixed to be more offensive.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Fixed to be more offensive.[/QUOTE]

Islam is pro-pedophilia, too. Muhammad married a 9-year old. Most Mudslime countries do not have an age of consent.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Ahh, you're so cute. I remember back when I was young and stupid.

Ehem, moderator? Oh moderator...

Mykevermin, I know we disagree a lot, but I'll be the first to tell you you were right. You were soooo very right.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7155175#post7155175[/QUOTE]

So, saying priests are pedophiles is OK, but stating religious facts that in the Qur'an, Muhammed marries a 9 year old is not.

"Grrr... you disagree with my insane political views! You must be a troll!"
 
[quote name='FallMoon']So, saying priests are pedophiles is OK, but stating religious facts that in the Qur'an, Muhammed marries a 9 year old is not.

"Grrr... you disagree with my insane political views! You must be a troll!"[/QUOTE]

Please post the exact chapter and verse in the Quran where it says Muhammad married a 9 year old. How bout this, don't post anything til you find it ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You painted an entire religion to be misogynistic based on the behavior of their misogynistic members. If you had painted an entire religion to be pro-pedophilia based on the behavior of their members that engaged in pedophilia...grrr I'm angry.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Please post the exact chapter and verse in the Quran where is says Muhammad married a 9 year old. How bout this, don't post anything til you find it ;)[/QUOTE]
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.





Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
​
Oops pedophile.

​

[quote name='IRHari']You painted an entire religion to be misogynistic based on the behavior of their misogynistic members. If you had painted an entire religion to be pro-pedophilia based on the behavior of their members that engaged in pedophilia...grrr I'm angry.[/QUOTE]

The religion itself declares women have less right, raping non-muslim women is justified, and aren't allowed to show their face.

4:34. ‘Men are in charge of (or overseers of - qawwamuna) women, as Allah has given them more (strength) than the other (sometimes translated as made them superior to the other), and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). Therefore women who are virtuous are obedient to God, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what God would have them guard. As for those women on whose part you fear rebellion (nushuz), admonish them and banish them to beds apart, (and last) beat (adribu) them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them. For God is Most High, Great (above you all).

Pretty misogynistic.
 
[quote name='FallMoon']
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.





Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
​
Oops pedophile.

​
[/QUOTE]

I said verse of the Quran. Still waiting. Here's another link for you:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16141277/...his-is-a-lie-spread-about-Our-Beloved-Prophet

So far you've come in to bash a religion, when doing so is off-topic at best, then followed it up with the lie that the Qur'an says Muhammad married a 9 year old which you still haven't proven.

Not off to a good start in this thread.

You're also an example of why the ability to cut and paste in an imbecile's hands is unfortunate. Perhaps you'd care to learn the meaning of that verse before hitting CTL-V?

Here's the meaning behind your mistinterpreted verse. Additionally, "wife beating" in Islam comes down to this. When spouses are arguing and they fear it will get physical, it is allowed to take the miswak (which is a tree root about the diameter of a persons pinky) and "hit them" with it as a symbol of their anger, without actually causing phsyical harm to the other.
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/quranic-commentary-on-sura-an-nissa-434/

...but I wager you didn't care to be educated, it was more fun to just throw out Pat Robertson talking points. As you were.
 
[quote name='berzirk']I said verse of the Quran. Still waiting. Here's another link for you:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16141277/...his-is-a-lie-spread-about-Our-Beloved-Prophet

So far you've come in to bash a religion, when doing so is off-topic at best, then followed it up with the lie that the Qur'an says Muhammad married a 9 year old which you still haven't proven.

Not off to a good start in this thread.[/QUOTE]

If he did not marry her when she was nine, then why is it in the Qur'an? And no, he married a six year old, consummating it when she was nine.

Why is the quote I posted in the Hadith if it's not true?

Also, why are you associating me with a creepy catholic guy whilst you are the one defending a kooky religion?
 
[quote name='FallMoon']If he did not marry her when she was nine, then why is it in the Qur'an? And no, he married a six year old, consummating it when she was nine.

Why is the quote I posted in the Hadith if it's not true?

Also, why are you associating me with a creepy catholic guy whilst you are the one defending a kooky religion?[/QUOTE]

You illiterate gimp, that's what I'm trying to tell you, it's not in the Qur'an anywhere!

I haven't made any statements about you and Catholocism in this thread. Please post where I have, or confess to being a liar.
 
[quote name='berzirk']You illiterate gimp, that's what I'm trying to tell you, it's not in the Qur'an anywhere!

I haven't made any statements about you and Catholocism in this thread. Please post where I have, or confess to being a liar.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is. I even cited where. Pat Robertson is a creepy Christian man. Why are you so avidly trying to defend Islam?
 
[quote name='FallMoon']Yes, it is. I even cited where. Pat Robertson is a creepy Christian man.[/QUOTE]

OK, since this is clearly above you, let me try and break it down for you. The Qur'an is the Muslim Holy Book. It is believed to be sent down to Muhammad, from God, through the Angel Gabriel. Muslims believe it is without fault, and is the #1 source a Muslim should use to guide their lives.

You have failed to quote any verse in the Qur'an that says Muhammad married a 6 or a 9 year old.

You have quoted an hadith. These are considered to be saying and actions of Muhammad as people around him recollect. I repeat, you have quoted hadith, which is people's recollection of what he said or did. Not the Qur'an, the divine book of Islam.

It reminds me of the fake debate on Jon Stewart regarding Fox News. Are they evil, or stupid? I've now made it abundantly clear to you that you have not quoted the Qur'an. Will you continue to lie and say you did (evil) or will you claim you weren't aware of the difference and made a mistake (stupidity).
 
[quote name='berzirk']OK, since this is clearly above you, let me try and break it down for you. The Qur'an is the Muslim Holy Book. It is believed to be sent down to Muhammad, from God, through the Angel Gabriel. Muslims believe it is without fault, and is the #1 source a Muslim should use to guide their lives.

You have failed to quote any verse in the Qur'an that says Muhammad married a 6 or a 9 year old.

You have quoted an hadith. These are considered to be saying and actions of Muhammad as people around him recollect. I repeat, you have quoted hadith, which is people's recollection of what he said or did. Not the Qur'an, the divine book of Islam.

It reminds me of the fake debate on Jon Stewart regarding Fox News. Are they evil, or stupid? I've now made it abundantly clear to you that you have not quoted the Qur'an. Will you continue to lie and say you did (evil) or will you claim you weren't aware of the difference and made a mistake (stupidity).[/QUOTE]

Why are you defending a pedophile? Why do you believe an invisible man sent a magic tome to some guy?

"Evil!'

Typical religious nut.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/...uslim/hadith/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.234

Most historians agree that she was 6 but 9 when the marriage was consummated. Only a Muslim fanatic would deny it. How dare they distort the word of Allah?! Kuffar!
 
[quote name='FallMoon']"Evil!' [/QUOTE]

Good enough. All I needed to know. Congratulations on being the first person to ever get added to my ignore list. *kisses
 
[quote name='FallMoon']...in the Qur'an, Muhammed marries a 9 year old...[/QUOTE]

History is being rewritten by progressives. Let's go back to the primary source.

Where in the Qur'an does it say that Muhammed married a 9 year old?
 
[quote name='IRHari']History is being rewritten by progressives. Let's go back to the primary source.

Where in the Qur'an does it say that Muhammed married a 9 year old?[/QUOTE]

It actually says it in the Hadith (Sahih al-Bukhari) which is used for Islamic law and history all over the world. Do you think you know more than top Islamic scholars?
 
[quote name='berzirk']I'm sorry that you didn't understand that my statement was sarcastic.

[/QUOTE]


Sarcastic? Yeah I got that from it but why dont you explain what you meant by it? It sounds fairly hypocritical especially from the sarcastic standpoint....Or are you attempting to claim you were sarcasticly claiming the entire no mosque crowd are bigots who want to kill muslims?
 
I don't know why I'm trying to defend Islam, but I'm willing to bite.

Tell me, when is it that Muhammad is supposed to have married this girl? I don't need an exact date, a year will do. Actually a century would do for the point I want to make.
 
[quote name='Clak']I don't know why I'm trying to defend Islam, but I'm willing to bite.

Tell me, when is it that Muhammad is supposed to have married this girl? I don't need an exact date, a year will do. Actually a century would do for the point I want to make.[/QUOTE]

I know you might feel inclined to defend something that is a minority in America, but it really is not necessary to do so.

Muhammed married Aisha girl 6 years after she was born. Ha ha ha. She was born in 613 AD. By the way, don't try to claim she doesn't exist. She wrote 2,210 Hadiths. 316 important ones.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Let's apply conventional moral codes to the 6th and 7th centuries, everybody![/QUOTE]

So, you think Muhammed is OK for raping a 9 year old girl? Gotcha. Muslims are stuck in the 6/7th century and still marry children.

↓↓↓ Let's apply 6th and 7th century moral codes to conventional times! ↓↓↓

http://spicybiscotti.com/uploads/2008/05/age_of_consent.png

http://elizabethlucas.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/picture-2.png

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2688/hijabworld2.png
 
[quote name='SpazX']And Abraham banged his slave and attempted to murder his son.[/QUOTE]

What's your point? The Muslims believe Abraham's word too. Abraham isn't the prophet of Christianity. Also, places with high populations of Christians don't put gay people to death, or have no age of consent. Use Jewish zombie next time for atypical stock response against Christian poster. Even though I'm not religious. lol...

No, I don't think Mexico is full of Muslims. You don't have to be married to have sex. They don't put gay people to death, and they don't force women to wear hijab.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Let's apply conventional moral codes to the 6th and 7th centuries, everybody![/QUOTE]

Yet applying moral codes from the 6th and 7th centuries to modern times makes sense?
 
[quote name='FallMoon']What's your point? The Muslims believe Abraham's word too. Abraham isn't the prophet of Christianity. Also, places with high populations of Christians don't put gay people to death, or have no age of consent. Use Jewish zombie next time for atypical stock response against Christian poster. Even though I'm not religious. lol...[/QUOTE]

I didn't know or care if you were Christian or religious, I'm just telling you if you want any semblance of consistency or logic in your posts you're going to have to rail against all the Abrahamic religions for all the shit they did years ago that we don't like now.

[quote name='FallMoon']No, I don't think Mexico is full of Muslims. You don't have to be married to have sex. They don't put gay people to death, and they don't force women to wear hijab.[/QUOTE]

So what about the Muslims who don't agree with those things and/or don't live in those specific countries?
 
[quote name='camoor']Yet applying moral codes from the 6th and 7th centuries to modern times makes sense?[/QUOTE]

Not sure what your point is.

As for fullmoon, if you don't realize the absurdity of trying to start a tete-a-tete w/r/t immorality and faith, well, I implore you to read up on what 'ethnocentricity' means.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Not sure what your point is.

As for fullmoon, if you don't realize the absurdity of trying to start a tete-a-tete w/r/t immorality and faith, well, I implore you to read up on what 'ethnocentricity' means.[/QUOTE]

I just think it's a dubious arguement. If we want to get philisophical, then every tenet of a moral system has to be on the table.

Saying that "my religion's book is sacred and unassailable" and "the morality expressed therein is a product of it's time" is having your cake and eating it too.

It's one thing to understand a historical figure's behavior as a product of his/her time. It's another thing to laud that historical figure as a moral standard bearer or sacred religious figure.
 
[quote name='SpazX']I didn't know or care if you were Christian or religious, I'm just telling you if you want any semblance of consistency or logic in your posts you're going to have to rail against all the Abrahamic religions for all the shit they did years ago that we don't like now.



So what about the Muslims who don't agree with those things and/or don't live in those specific countries?[/QUOTE]

My posts are consistent and logical. I was railing against Islam's prophet. I guess it would be similar to railing against Jesus. He didn't really marry a 6 year old, though. "Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the same! Stop attacking only one of them! Islam isn't that bad guys :(" Stop trying to cheapen the debate.

Well, those countries have the largest percentage of Muslims and therefore have 6/7th century laws. What do you think about the countries with extremely high Muslim populations putting gay people to death, letting men get married to children, and forcing women to wear hijab/burqa? It's really not something to try to defend. Well, Muslims who don't agree with those things don't agree with those things. I hope they can spread their moderate Muslim religion to the future generations.

Also, to IRHari, everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over me posting things from the Hadish, and then trying to defend the religion (without knowing anything about the religion.) Islam is assailable, but people do try to stop the infidel from ruining everyone's fun.
 
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