PS3: Brain and Brawn

What about that system that no one talks about. The Phantom from infinium labs. I am sure that they are going to realize that everyone does not have Broadband and they are going to change their system specs.

This is my point with this: consoles always change their initial specs bacause they want to be better that the system before them. This is why I say that the ps3 and the revolution will have the edge. Microsoft has said in the past that they weren't going to have a hard drive in their next system but I garantee that PS3 and the revolution will.

Whatever xbox does, the ps3 and revolution will do better. Look at the dreamcast and the ps2. Sony added a few new technology in to the ps2 and it made it way better than dreamcast even though both were 128 bit systems.

Do you think that if te ps2 came out after xbox which would have the better graphics and games for that matter
 
I was just fine with not having a centralized network for gaming, I dont need it especially if I have to pay for it. As long as I can log into a game and play online thats fine. if I want to find my friends thats what AIM is for. and you can use headphones with just about ANY game if you have broadband.

If PS2 online sucks it's only because they dont want to force you to except things you dont want, need or are able to use. The services provided by live cater only to the broadband gifted. Those of use stuck with 56k have a dwindling number of PS2 games and the PC looking out for us.
 
Intelligent comments I've seen through 3 Pages of fanboisism:

[quote name='the_gloaming']I don't understand why people get b0n4rs over power of the console. For me it's always been the game library that would influence my purchases.[/quote]

Thank you. Specs don't mean crap. It's all in the software.

[quote name='dafoomie']
Are you serious? Xbox has no 3rd party support? So all the good Xbox games are 1st party titles? And all those multiplatform games that look better on the Xbox aren't 3rd party either. I didn't realize that MS went out and bought Tecmo, Bioware, Sega, Ubisoft, SNK, Capcom, EA... You could make the argument that PS2 has better 3rd party support, thats been Sony's strength forever because they didn't necessarily have great (or any) 1st party games. But to say that Xbox has little to none is rediculous.[/quote]

Dafoomie is a GAMER. Being a TRUE gamer, you must embrace ALL systems. Sure people have preferences but to rule out a system simply because you don't own it or never bothered with it just smacks ignorance.
 
Well, though its always fun to speculate, I think history tells us what will happen with this generation.

1) It doesn't matter who is first. Whoever sells the most consoles will dictate the start of the new generation. Dreamcast is a tweener because PS2 blew it away. If Dreamcast outsold PS2, it wouldn't be a "tweener", just as the PS2 isn't a tweener to the Xbox and Gamecube Generation.

2) The most power won't matter. There are always tricks to pump much more power from a system than anyone originally realizes. If you showed GTA SA back when Dreamcast was launched, no one would have imagined the PS2 could handle that. What sort of sucks is, you really get a feeling that the PS2 has been maxed out on what it can do. You don't get a feeling there are leaps and bounds more that it can do. But, you never hear about the Xbox being maxed out. Even with Halo 2, no one is saying this is taxing the Xbox's processors. How much more could this system do in 2-3 years? Same with the Cube. Seems like these systems are being retired ahead of their time because Sony has all the market power.

3) The myth of online play. Don't get me wrong, online gaming definitely has a place in my heart. I played online with the Dreamcast and at times it was awesome. That being said, 1 player games and playing with friends has a place also. I like just being able to turn on a game and play it, without having to find a room, find people to play with, hope that everyone wants to play fairly, etc.

Also, thinking back to the Dreamcast, most of the games are not playable online now, and the servers that are availabe are riddled with cheaters. How many people here like to dig out an old console every so often and relive the great games of the past? I like to pop the original Super Mario Brothers in for a spin here and there. But, in 15 years, forget about doing that with Halo 2's multi player online. It won't be available. So, I just don't think online is that critical to a console (its a nice feature, like playing DVD's, but it isn't critical). If you don't believe me, aren't there close to 15 million Xbox's sold? How many Xbox live subscriptions are there (is it past 1 million? I don't think its hit 2 million yet). So, its far liess than 25% of console owners. How many Xbox owners though have bought at least a second contoller (I bet its at least 75%). So, its not just that people won't buy an extra periphreal, and it isn't just that people don't have access to broadband. Some people just don't feel the need to be online.
 
This time around the console companies are racing to be the first out there. PS2 was first and therefore received the greatest success by far.
However, i think it is a mistake to think that being first out the gate will ensure overall success. PS2 just had good timing when it came out first. Now, there are so many games that I am still trying to beat that makes me not ready to buy the next console as soon as it comes out. I (and many othes have the luxury to wait and see which will be the best. Whoever has the best games will win this time around
 
[quote name='davidflecha17']What about that system that no one talks about. The Phantom from infinium labs. I am sure that they are going to realize that everyone does not have Broadband and they are going to change their system specs.

This is my point with this: consoles always change their initial specs bacause they want to be better that the system before them. This is why I say that the ps3 and the revolution will have the edge. Microsoft has said in the past that they weren't going to have a hard drive in their next system but I garantee that PS3 and the revolution will.

Whatever xbox does, the ps3 and revolution will do better. Look at the dreamcast and the ps2. Sony added a few new technology in to the ps2 and it made it way better than dreamcast even though both were 128 bit systems.

Do you think that if te ps2 came out after xbox which would have the better graphics and games for that matter[/quote]
Phantom is officially dead, Infinium Labs is gone. They were always really fishy anyway.
 
[quote name='lordxixor101'] The most power won't matter. There are always tricks to pump much more power from a system than anyone originally realizes. If you showed GTA SA back when Dreamcast was launched, no one would have imagined the PS2 could handle that. What sort of sucks is, you really get a feeling that the PS2 has been maxed out on what it can do. You don't get a feeling there are leaps and bounds more that it can do. But, you never hear about the Xbox being maxed out. Even with Halo 2, no one is saying this is taxing the Xbox's processors. How much more could this system do in 2-3 years? Same with the Cube. Seems like these systems are being retired ahead of their time because Sony has all the market power.[/quote]

PS2 was much harder to develop for than the GC and XBOX, which is why it has shown the most improvement. Developers are learning more tricks as time progresses which explains the better looking games on PS2 lately. XBOX was easiest to develop for because it was similar to a PC. So its launch games showed alot of its power at the beginning.
 
[quote name='Morrigan Lover']
2. Nintendo has been writing software for longer than Microsoft has been in existence.[/quote]

Microsoft is run by genius programmers who have made three generations of successful universal operating systems.
 
Yeesh. Being a "gamer" doesn't mean you have to embrace all three consoles. It means you have to like playing videogames. That's it. I don't give a shit if you're a Nintendo fanboy, or a multiplatform player - if you like videogames, you're a gamer. Period.

In terms of all the handwaving over next-generation consoles, here's my view:

Very little of it is going to matter.

Sony's gonna have Ratchet and Clank, and probably still pay Rockstar through the nose for limited exclusivity of the GTA series, if they have any sense. MS will have Halo, Mechassault, Ninja Gaiden and the like. Nintendo will have Mario, Link, etc.

Almost everything else of any importance will be multiplatform, and they'll *all* look more or less the same.

That's it. That's all there is to it. Why? Because that's what the economics of game creation dictate, given how expensive it is going to be to generate content for such powerful machines. Multiplatform, all the time, with very few exceptions. Every publisher is going to have to maximize their userbase by porting to all available consoles, because otherwise, creating enough near-photorealistic graphics and compelling gameplay for 15-40 hours of play time is going to cost *so much god damned money* that very, very few companies will even be able to maximize the use of the console.

If you disagree, tell me why.

seppo
 
[quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='Morrigan Lover']
2. Nintendo has been writing software for longer than Microsoft has been in existence.[/quote]

Microsoft is run by genius programmers who have made three generations of successful universal operating systems.[/quote]

That is a true statement
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='Morrigan Lover']
2. Nintendo has been writing software for longer than Microsoft has been in existence.[/quote]

Microsoft is run by genius programmers who have made three generations of successful universal operating systems.[/quote]

That is a true statement[/quote]

I hope you see the Irony of using CAG to post that. (CAG runs on FreeBSD)
 
Next generation I doubt that hardware is going to be an issue. Everyones going to have kick ass hardware and the best looking games ever made are going to be made next generation. I think it will be kind of stupid playing whos the baddest kid on the block game since all the games are going to look superb regardless of what hardware is on it (maybe if your up tight and love to be anal about every little imperfection then you might be able to). Graphical power is going to level off either next generation or the generation after, marketing hardware isn't going to be the focus next generation (I hope), after the fall out settles after the release of the consoles it's going to be all about the games (of course this is just a theory).

As of now, theres a clear difference of graphical power across the board. PS2 being 3rd, Cube 2nd and Xbox 1st. If a game is made from the ground up and is made to take advantage of the system the games will look superb and even a weaker console will rival stronger console(for example Silent Hill 3). But you also have to look at it this way, if the same game is made from the ground up on all the consoles this generation (PS2/GCN/XBOX) with out half assing and taking 100% full advantage of each system it will be clear that each system has different capabilities. So I think saying "Oh but some games look better on a weaker console then it does on a stronger console" is not a good argument.

To me graphics aren't important, if the game play is solid and fun to play, the graphics is just icing on a well made cake. I still play Super Mario Bros. 3 at least 4 times a month, why? because it's fun to play and that game is 13 years old. Make a solid game first then worry about the eye candy has always been my motto.
 
PS3 may still be crap, look at the Avalon game in development for it.

Automatic level generators, static lighting, etc.

Ugh.

Hopefully that is just a practical joke or something.
 
The problem isnt hardware it's fanbois whose only goal in life is to make someone else regret their choice of system because only the richest and most sedentary people have the money and time to actually PLAY everything that comes out.

The graphics across all the CURRENT systems look fine to me, the differeance between 5 million and 4 million is AMAZINGLY small, never mind the whole jaggie issue being blown out of proportion.

In the end someone's going to say their system renders individual hairs better or the rain droplets are more round or something as equally stupid sounding and it will sound just as reasonable to people as arguments used THIS generation.

As it has been, as it will always be.
 
[quote name='Morrigan Lover'][quote name='Spawn Of Hell']I think that Microsoft will basically have the competition by the balls when it comes to consoles that are basically the equivalent of computers, they have all the experience with windows, and all the years of experience with programming, far more than that of nintendo, or even sony. Then you have to factor in the limitless amounts of money M$ has compared to the other two companies.[/quote]

1. A video game console is a computer

2. Nintendo has been writing software for longer than Microsoft has been in existence.[/quote]

Microsoft was founded in 1976. Please provide an example of a significant piece of Nintendo programming earlier than 1979.

That aside, the comparison is meaningless. Many quite highly regarded development organizations have come into existence every year since either company began producing code. Many of the coders producing todays games weren't yet born when Microsoft began or when Donkey Kong first appeared. The ancient, in software industry terms, history of either company is meaningless. What matter is the overall strategy they take for the coming generation. Each has strengths and weaknesses that the other does not, including strength in different demographics.
 
[quote name='PHaLaNX GTR']PS2 had, by far, the strongest CPU, but had no GPU. Without a GPU, the PS2 was fighting on an uneven battle ground, since the CPU had to basically do all the graphical rendering via "software". While, on the other hand, the other consoles alleviated all that burden from their respective CPUs by using hardware designed specifically for graphics rendering (GPU). This giving the Xbox the definitive advantage over the PS2 and enabling the NGC to go heads up, and, at times, ahead of the PS2. Microsoft had Nvidia in its GPU corner and Nintendo had ATI. Now with the release of information regarding the next generation of game systems, Sony has just announced that they will have the always venerable Nvidia at its side. If the Cell is as capable as its brethren, the Emotion Engine, for its time, then Sony may just have the one two punch, if all goes well. But then again, from what I surmized MS seems to have something up their sleeves with their next gen processor, as it seems to share a few ideas as the Cell, with multilateral processing, or some thing or the other, where multiple processors are working together as one. So this should be interesting as always. I can't wait to see the combined might of these two processors working together.

Hey, IGN can be useful, at times.[/quote]

This analysis involves a few misconsceptions. First of all, it's just silly to fault the PS2 for not having a GPU when the Nvidia marketing term had yet to be promoted when the PS2 chip set was in its design phase. And that is all it is, a marketing term. I was at the IDF (Intel Developer Forum) in Palm Springs where Nvidia rolled out the original GeForce 256 over a nice lunch. (Still have the nice jersey they gave out, too.) While the presentation was very nice there wasn't anything in the GeForce that anyone found terribly surprising. It was inevitable that any high priority processing intensive function will be offloaded from the CPU as chip companies seek greater value for their products. In the case of T&L it was just a matter of when the transistor budget required became affordable in the consumer graphic card market. For the same reasons Intel didn't add dedicated instructions for codecs, although they did offer SIMD instructions under MMX that helped. It made much more sense for the video chip companies to pursue this.

Keep in mind though, this was a reaction to the problem of enhancing the PC. Intel could easily have added functionality optimized for T&L calculations but this would never have made sense from a business perspective since their primary market in the corporate desktop sector would not appreiate paying for these functions. Sony was not in the same situation. They could and did heavily customize an existing general purpose CPU to be optimized for the needs of a 3D game console. In terms of the processing elements that exist within the PS2, while they don't all reside on a video chip, collectively the console has the equivalent dedicated processing elements of a PC with a GeForce prior to the 3rd generation when the pixel and vertex shaders were added. This is the big standout area of the XGPU over the PS2.

The recently released details of the CEll processor show it to be much less remarkable than originally claimed. It is not as once claimed "entirely new" but a derivative of the POWER architecture (really PowerPC but IBM has gotten in the habit of using the the POWER name even for chip that aren't properly part of that family. THe ISA is very close so it doesn't matter much) with multiple cores and some specilized execution units and optimizations for multimedia tasks. Other than the multiple cores it's looking a hell of lot like like an Emotion Engine designed around POWER instead of MIPS and reflecting the differences inherent in half a decade of semiconductor manufacturing advances.

NVidia has already indicated the chip design they're delivering to Sony (unlike the Xbox they won't be producing the chips themselves through their foundry partners) will be substantially different than what will appear in a Windows PC of the same generation. I think they're being a little disingenuous here. It appears what they'll be selling Sony is their 2005 version of the PS2's Graphic Synthesizer. It'll be a more modern design but it will lack a lot of the onboard processing associated with the major jump to DX9/OGL2 level hardware. Instead, like the PS2, those chores will be performed by the Cell chip. Otherwise you're looking at a system that leaves most of its CPU idle most of the time. There just isn't enough work to go around if you have a Cell and a full-on next generation GPU in the box and the box would be overly expensive as well.

It may sound crazy to suggest that you could have too much processing power but in this instance its true. This isn't a PC running half a dozen applications in the background while playing a complex 3D game. This is a dedicated game system where there are limits to the usefulness of extra CPU power if the video chip is doing 90% of the work. You might think that it would make for better AI but the problem there is not one of CPU resources but rather developer resources. There are still very few people who know how to write decent AI and no amount additional CPU time will let them brute force their way through it.

So, the PS3 should be a nice box and all, but I'm not expecting anything awesomely different or superior beyond what a later design freeze date affords.
 
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