Really, what has Nintendo done right? List reworked.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']I didn't say it had to be the central feature. Where do you use the stylus in Mario Kart at all? I've gotten gold trophies on every circuit and I'm yet to put my stylus on the screen.
[/QUOTE]
Menu selection? ;)

Nah, I thought you used it, or could use it, with your items, but I haven't played it in a while so I'm probably just making things up.
 
I like Nintendo, I taint gon' lie. There are a few simple reasons why I like them best as of right now, and trust what they're doing:

1. Durability. Yeah, yeah, this is debatable, but for me:
NES-Works (got it for my birthday back in 1990)
SNES-works (got it back in 92-93)
GBA-Works (Soaked in rain)
N64-works (got at launch, spilled copuntless drinks on it, stepped on it
twice)
Gamecube-works (posted a thread about when I dropped it two stories onto
concrete)
DS- Works - (no damage yet)

My non Nintendo systems:
Genesis-dead
PSX- DRE
PS2- DRE
Xbox-DRE

Maybe I just got some bad systems, but for me it's always been Nintendo's systems that last.

2. The DS was a good idea. Everyone thought it was going to be gimmicky and shitty, but look at it now. MY DS is probably my favorite system right now. This gives me more confidence in the Wii.

3. I like Nintendo games. the fact that I own mostly 1st party games for the GC doesn't speak ill of the system, it speaks highly of Nintendo's ability as a gamemaker. The fact that after all of these "rehashes" I'm still excited about the new Mario speaks volumes. Of course they could put the games on the Ps3, but why would I want that? Why would I want to pay $600 to play Mario when I can spend $200 for the same thing?

The fact is, a straight power battle won't accomplish anything. It's bringing a relatively new way to play that will get me excited about other games besides Nintendo's, and that my friends is a big accomplishment.
 
I admittedly haven't read everything after the first page, so excuse me if I'm being redundant. I agree with everybody, especially Strell; You are using juvenile, meaningless excuses and arguments to prove to yourself and us that your opinions are infallible. They aren't. No one's are. But the point of having an opinion is to make it VALID, not forcably inarguable.

I also think you are once again showing great hypocritical tendencies by only focusing on what Nintendo has done wrong, and not even mentioning the other problems that will most likely end the PS3's lifespan and are already hurting the 360 (though there is still demand for it). I mentioned these in the other thread you used these same arguments in, and all of them are worse than a mistake about a headphone jack.

For instance, one of the main reasons I DIDN'T buy a PS2 or Xbox at launch was due to the fact that they HAD DVD players. Bad ones. By the time the 3 major systems came out, most families had a DVD player, or two. Why should I be forced to pay another 100 bucks for an inferior version of something I already have? People were upset that the Gamecube didn't have a DVD player, but if it had, there's a very good chance Nintendo would have died in this generation. Frankly, with all the bootlegging of games for the Xbox and PS2, I'm amazed they didn't get into Dreamcast-type trouble. That's why Nintendo made the mini-discs; to save themselves.

Also, the argument, "Why didn't they get more exclusive games, and why didn't they get the games the PS2 and XBox got?" is so far out of Nintendo's control I'm amazed you would even consider it valid. Besides the previously-stated financial reasons, the Gamecube lost 3rd party support because of the idiotic notion that "Nintendo is for kids." Okay. This is a clear-cut case of consumer influence: This idea gets out, with little to no evidence to support it, and suddenly developers don't want to make their shooters and GTAs and M-rated games for the Gamecube, because they don't think it will sell. It was something that very nearly killed the Gamecube. And it is a miracle we're getting the Wii.
 
Here's some of my rebuttals.
  1. They've lost tons of 3rd party support. EA -

    Does any nintendo fan really give a shit about EA? They still bring the majority of their games over to the GameCube anyway. All they've done is half ass titles on the DS, because to them the PSP is an easier PS2 port device. I say let them have the downgraded PS2 games. DS games are more original titles.
  2. Dual screen is a Gimmick... and the DS doesnt have enough titles that fully support the touch screen.

    -I don't know what you expect, but if you think the DS is a gimmick and there aren't enough good titles, nintendo must need to do something fucking amazing to impress you, because things like Trauma Center, Phoenix Wright, Ouendan, Brain Age.. etc. all have impressed the heck out of me and millions of others.
  3. Mario Party is retarded, and nintendo has focued attention on that... and not they're highest selling gamecube game, Smash Brothers.

    Mario Party is so much fun with 4 people. Smash Brothers is better, but i'm glad that they haven't had tons of sequels and spinoffs to Smash, because theres such a dedicated fanbase that really delves deep into the fighting engine and new things are still being discovered today. Tier lists are always changing, and new strategies for all kinds of characters are still being found. SSBM is not a game that needs a sequel, it has that kind of longevity.

    All the mario parties are kind of rediculous though. Something's gotta pay the bills, and all the kidlets that line up for each new one is helping pay for Wii development, think of it that way.
  4. Metroid has been losing and regaining powers since the 80's, another story PLEASE.

    That "story" of losing and regaining powers has been a pretty consistent theme through many game franchises.. played any of the recent castlevanias? Apparently the complete change from a 2D sidescroller to the best implementation of a truely immersive first person view and first person jumping ever wasn't enough.
  5. Zelda will be cancelled for the gamecube, and only for Wii - YOU KNOW IT.

    Nintendo has made no indication that the gamecube version won't happen. It IS a gamecube game, even on wii, it's a gamecube game on a Wii DVD with a few added controls. Nintendo isn't like sony, they don't pull things like that.
  6. Only one SSB, Mario Kart & Mario game per console? Whats the point?

    If they rushed out shitty versions of these franchises like they do with mario party, we'd all be complaining. As it stands, i'll take one or two quality entries per generation.
  7. Wheres all the fighters, RPGs or Shmups?
    Fighters- SSBM
    RPGs- Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi
    Shmups- i dunno, but shmups are real fucking boring to me so go to the dreamcast for those or something.
  8. Why doesnt Nintendo pay companies for exclusive titles like MS and Sony does?

    Maybe nintendo feels their money is better spent with internal development of quality titles and partnerships with 3rd parties like namco, sega, retro studios, silicon knights (in the past) and with establishing new studios like sora for SSBB. Nintendo doens't have the kind of money MS and Sony do to influence developers. It's just the hard truth of it.
  9. Super Mario Bros. 3 is one of the top selling games of all time... why not release a 3d Mario with the same ideas that made that one so inventive?

    How can you complain that Metroid has been too similar thoughout the series and THEN go on to complain about how Mario has changed and isn't the same as Super Mario Bros 3?
  10. Squaresoft held up the Snes, WTF? Why isnt Nintendo on their hands and knees getting them back?

    Maybe they realize like the rest of us that square sucks now.
  11. No Nintendo Tetris for the Gamecube?

    Considering how bad the DS one was maybe that is a good thing.
  12. Why does Star Fox suck now?

    Because namco was fucking idiots and made the majority of the game be on the fucking ground. This is goddamned starfox STAR FOX. Like as in a fox in the stars, not a fox driving a tank and running around with shitty 3rd person shooter controls. fuck. I was real pissed about starfox armada too.
  13. Mario needs to stop play sports, and release a good game.

    I don't know about you, but i've played hours of multiplayer Mario Golf, Strikers, and Baseball, with Strikers being the best ever. I really love Mario Strikers.
  14. Nintendo games lack replayability now. Even flagship titles dont have hours of finding items in them anymore.

    That's what rare did, not nintendo. Rare was the one that had you running all over the goddamned planet finding bird feathers and used band aids and crap in their shitty games. fuck rare.
  15. Why not just kill the gamecube? Why even bother to sell it still, if you havent done anything for it in a year or two?

    Pikmin 2, Fire Emblem, Super Paper Mario, Zelda: TP, Super Mario Strikers, Timesplitters Future Perfect, Prince of Persia Two Thrones, Alien Hominid.. there's been a ton of good stuff released for the Cube, if you bother to look and try some of them. Pikmin 2 alone is better than 90% of what gets released on the PS2/Xbox.
  16. What happened to EA?
    I don't know what you mean here.. most every major EA release is on gamecube. And EA has committed to at least 10 titles on Wii.
  17. If the GBA SP, is what the GBA should of been all along, and the DS lite is what the DS should of been all along, then should I just not buy a Wii until its fixed too?

Nintendo hasn't redesigned a home console since the SNES, and even the NES/SNES redesigns came REALLY late in their lifespan where it was more of a budget release, rather than a second coming of the hardware. I don't understand this fear that we'll see a Wii redesign. I don't understand a lot of your concerns with nintendo.

I love the gamecube. It's the system that always gets use when friends come over just to chill or have a few drinks. Wario Ware Party Games alone is enough to have a kickass night at home with friends. Maybe you should just stick to PS2 and its single player crap.
 
[quote name='Strell']First off, this is a blatent attempt at a flamewar. Period. There's no other way to get around that. Had I started an anti-PS3 topic, I'd bet it would be closed, as I'm labeled a harsh fanboy.[/quote]
Well, you kinda are a harsh fanboy, as this post shows... but I still think you're cool. =)

Basically, its probably not a flamewar, because I've mentioned that I personally LOVE NINTENDO. I'm just annoyed about how they seem to do things now.

Sure the future looks bright, with the Wii on the horizon and all.. but Nintendo's future as ALWAYS looked bright, and it seems to pretty much end up in failure.

I thought using the cart for the 64 was great, because everyone hated loading times... turns out... the cart wasnt big enough to store good music, good image files for bitmaps or anything. It was only big enough to store plain looking 3d games that bled all over the screen in neon green and pink...

[quote name='Strell']Secondly, we should delete total fanboy posts on both sides in this thread - the Ninty ones and the anti-Ninty ones, as I know each faction will be dutifully represented without logic, but just a bunch of rhetoric and bad spelling. The "NIntendo is kiddie/gimmicky" posts need to be removed just as much as the "Nintendo roxx0rs your mom at night."[/quote]
So far, the only fanboy post I've read is yours and maybe Doom Gaze... who actually are the only ones calling me a fanboy for discussing conserns about Nintendo.

[quote name='Strell'] Third, you've made this topic with an express mentality beforehand. In other words, even if people refute your obviously bad logic, you'll just fire back with "yea whatever" comments later on down the line. Regardless, lots of people (myself included) will respond anyway. It's like hating a movie before you see it.[/quote]
I've taken the time to type out long drawn out comments to people and their conserns without slamming them so far... whats your basis on this? I'm not slamming the Wii, as I'm slamming Nintendo's past on preparing for the Wii. I did the same thing when I was thinking of buying the Sega Saturn after Sega screwed me on the 32X.

[quote name='Strell'] Fourth, my guess is that eventually Juka won't respond anymore to this topic OR use a "haha I gotcha!" sort of tactic. That's what I'd do if I were in the same (hilariously embarassing) scenario.[/quote]
Why should I be embarassed for having an opinion not like 85% of CAG? I still have my own... I would think you would be embarassed for being the first one to look silly in this thread. Which you'll probably turn into a flame war now because you lowered the bar now.

[quote name='Strell'] Now let's eliminate some errors in your post:
4) Lost EA? Because they haven't devoted an entire studio to Wii games?[/quote]
I'm talking about present tense, not future tense... I'm not clairvoiant... I can only assume the future by basing it on the past. Personally, I think EA's involvement is only to get release titles out, as thats the most profitable time.

[quote name='Strell'] 5) Wrong at least halfway. Show me Meteos or Canvas Curse on another system, please.[/quote]
Thats two games that fully use the screen as it was ment to be. I'm sure the DS has more than that.

[quote name='Strell'] 9) To not oversaturate, which you'd be whining about if they did do that.[/quote]

I said a sequel, not a double-dipping ass parade like Mario Party... just a sequel. It's been 5 years. I dont remember bitching when Majoras Mask came out.

[quote name='Strell'] 10) Smash Bros, Paper Mario, Ikaruga, all AA to AAA titles. I will concede it lacks the number Sony has, but it's on par if not better than MS.[/quote]
You may be right, but Ikaruga is a DC game... and Smash Brothers is not a AAA title... that game wouldnt sell near that amount on a system with 3rd party title compitition. Its a button masher. You got me on Paper Mario, good game... but I really could be happy with a non-mario game at this point.

[quote name='Strell'] 12) They do, but then those companies turn around and port them anyway.[/quote]
Resident Evil 4 is the only one I can think of, and the Gamecube was a dead system anyways. If Nintendo didnt abandon the gamecube a year before, I'm sure Capcom wouldnt of bitched out.

[quote name='Strell'] 14) Mario 64[/quote]
You're right about that... I feel silly about that. Good catch.

[quote name='Strell'] 20) No profit in it? Nope. Not yet, which is why Wii has it.[/quote]
If you dont think that MS isnt making hand over fist you're crazy... and the hard part is over. Will the Wii have anything even close to XBL? I guess we'll see...

[quote name='Strell'] 23) Hmmm, yet they all sell well....Hmmm.


24) Wow, I love how you show contradiction to 23 not one fucking number later. [/quote]
Not everyone owns 3 consoles, Hmmmm... no other sports games.... hmmmm....

Also, I know you think I'm dissing you're favorite company of all time, but no need to get all pissy. I dont understand blind fanboyism unless you have stock in the company. If thats the case, I guess proceed...

[quote name='Strell'] 28) They did, and even when they are multi platform, they sell best on the GC. This is a problem with Sega being run by morons, not a Nintendo issue. Same reason Namco was idiotic for releasing Soul Calibur 3 exclusive to PS2 when it sold best on the GC.[/quote]
That was cause people wanted to play as link, nothing more. Control sucked and graphics were better on the xbox... it was cause of Link.

[quote name='Strell'] 29) Did they do that with the N64, Gamecube, or SNES? A cosmetic redesign is not the same as adding light. So this is all invalid.[/quote]
Cosmetic redesign is still annoying, as they always release the one you want after you buy garbage purple.

[quote name='Strell'] Let's also scan for redundancy:
1, 2
3, 15
9, 17, 18
12, 22
4, 27
1, 2, 29[/quote]
I'll apply the changes... thanks for your efforts.

[quote name='Strell'] The second you call Metroid "blocky" and use that as a reason for disliking the game, you might as well just jam lit cigarettes on your balls. This is why it's retarded to argue with you on anything in this post for the most part - you're just going to handslap it away. "Metroid is blocky." Wow. Why even ask us to name games if you're going to use third grade logic to dismiss them?[/quote]
Also said it was slow and clunky. Sorry, I would of written a 8 page dissertation on it in shakespearean manner, if I really gave a shit and thought you're actually read it. Just wanted to keep it simple.

[quote name='Strell']On the flipside, why don't we talk about what Nintendo has done right? Why not talk about what Sony and MS have done wrong? If you're going to be narrow minded about things to bitch about, you should be prepared to explore counterpoint, but my guess is that you're not.[/quote]
Sounds great, being that this is about Nintendo, feel free to open a MS and Sony one. It's taking alot out of me just to keep up with the Nintendo one.

[quote name='Strell'] Responses to responses:
Virtual Console was announced and hinted at long before XBLA was ever touted as a main feature.[/quote]
Emulation, which is really what it is. Is as old as the SNES.

[quote name='Strell'] The Wii wasn't awesome? Those six hour lines and universal praise from developers to reporters must all be lies from Nintendo! Get your tin foil hats![/quote]
I heard it was new and innovative... not that it was amazing. People want something different, no wonder they say in line for 6 hours. I heard that the sencitivity was too high, the cursor was annoying, and that they were Gamecubes with attachments... but I didnt go, so I left it to a sentance long.

[quote name='Strell']A third person Metroid would be shit, I'd guess. The whole point of the FPA idea is that you see through Samus's eyes but still can pull off screw attacks and things. It could not have been handled better as a half ass PN03 ripoff.[/quote]

PNO3 was shit, think more DMC. Platforming in Metroid is back.

[quote name='Strell'] SoC = Zelda? Are you high? Link would knock the shit out of those guys. Boohoo that your opinion somehow is representative of a "failure" by Nintendo.[/quote]
Well, Wind Waker or N64 link would of... not the NES or SNES Link. I like my underdogs to be underdogs... not to have various equipment that you'll use a handful of times.

[quote name='Strell'] You bitch and moan about all these "wrong" things Nintendo does when half of them are opinion, the other half are redundant, and a fraction are spot on. And then you dismiss the fact that Nintendo is the only profitable game company at this time, has been in the business for 100+ years (25 or so years if you only count video games), and act like they ought to be dead. They aren't Atari, they never have been, they never will be.

And I hope that if by some cosmic mistake that they do die, that they do not whore themselves out to another company to make games for. They've said they won't and I damn well hope they don't, just so everyone could bitch and piss and moan about how we get next to nothing new in the game arena except for GTA with a new color palette. People are so quick these days to act like Nintendo doesn't know what it is doing AND that they think they are so far gone that they should be put down, like they've got rabies or something. It's pathetic the amount of disrespect they get.

Have they been arrogant and made mistakes? Yes. But they are fucking running around saying shit like "we invented 3D." By comparison, Yamauchi stepped down and Nintendo has been receptive to outside help AND has humble people manning the show. They don't have fucker design men running around touting how "___ feature in our game is so fucking awesome you will cum in your pants." Instead they are basically saying "You should just try it out."

It sucks having to defend Nintendo from the baseless bullshit they get vollied at them half the time. No headphone port? Yes that's retarded. But "Omfg I want another Smash Bros?" That's bullshit.[/quote]
I hate GTA, and urban games. I love the ideas Nintendo brings to the table, its just that the DS is the only thing thats panned out in years and that doesnt mean their out of the water yet. I enjoy the DS, but feel that the games are limited. I see the same for the Wii... but maybe I'm wrong, I sure hope so... I love nintendo.

Sorry to make you freak out, just pointing out the obvious that the bandwagon jumpers dont see. It's pointless to point out how awesome Nintendo is because of the "Wii"... because "Wii" dont have it yet... (pun, har har)

=)
 
I don't see how I'm freaking out if I answer a 2 page anti-Nintendo rant with a 2-page "that anti-Nintendo rant was teh sux." :p
 
[quote name='Strell']I don't see how I'm freaking out if I answer a 2 page anti-Nintendo rant with a 2-page "that anti-Nintendo rant was teh sux." :p[/quote]

First off, it wasnt anti-nintendo... re-read it. So far you've turned the what was once a fair even topic into a flamewar. You spent you're whole post talking shit to me, about how stupid I am, and making assumptions about what I'll do... but I never did any of that. I sure as hell, didnt get into retard lingo and say shit like "teh".

I was just saying that all of nintendo's licenses have blurred into the same vibe, and that they've been so focused on bringing you the next new thing, they've lost focus on bringing us what we really want. Good games.

I'll say it for the last time, I love nintendo. I just feel they've spread themselves too thin. It's not the 3rd party's fault that their Nintendo licensed game sucks, its Nintendo for not running it through Nintendo quality control. Nintendo used to have high standards, now they just take an "ok" game and slap Mario on it. Open your eyes.

If we keep buying their garbage, they'll keep selling it. I still have my Gamecube, GBA SP, Nintendo DS, NES, Sega Saturn and Dreamcast and my Xbox 360. I dont have a PS2, PSP or PC anymore. (Apple boy)

As you can see, I keep my Nintendo close... I just wish that Nintendo would release a good game. Something I cant live without. Like they used to.
 
Dear MookyJooky (I shall refer to you henceforth as GrumpyMcGrumperson):



Finally, there is a post where people want to talk about Nintendo as an abstract concept. That is exactly what we need. But being that Strell has already beat me to the discussion of your content, I suppose I can help you argue your point better, by teaching you a couple of techniques.


Let's start with Ad Hominem approach, that you've indulged us with. You did well in your original post. But do take that strategy further. For example: "Since Nintendo have messed up the headphones port on the GBA SP, it so logically follows that everything they will make since then will be garbage." It will make people like Strell bleed from the eyes when they read your argumentation.


When asking questions like "why does StarFox sucks now?" or "Why don't they integrate Super Mario Bros. 3 stuff in a new 3D Mario?" I need you to be more pompous and act more like an ungrateful burden on the universe. At the moment, the questions act like something a child would ask, without much thought about things like what goes into game design, average cost of making a game, expected returns, business model, and other such "nonsense." You should, in fact, make it sound like making a video game involves a couple of months, and most of them are spent drinking martinis.


Make sure to contradict yourself more. You were doing well with asking them to make less sequels for Sports games while making MORE sequels to "main franchises," while also telling them that gameplay needs to be "reinvented," YET accusing Nintendo with concentrating too much on "hardware," and, despite their constant claims to attempt to reinvent games and gameplay BY reinventing the hardware, you bitch about all of those. Tell these forum nerds what's up. Say: "Me, Mr. GrumpyMcGrumperson, knows what's up, and knows what's the best. You all are kiddie n00bs."


Speaking of childishness, I applaud your good old re-introduction of "kiddie stuff" concept. I agree: we need more whore-killing, alien-shooting, drug-dealing, half-naked-woman-battling, curse-word-uttering, mother-fucking adult gameplay. I agree: adult content is defined with adult themes. Like smoking, drugs, gore, use of the word.. you know... F - blank - blank - UCK. If a game is made so that it can be enjoyed by a child, make sure to dismiss it even though it can be enjoyed by an adult too.


To sum it up, let's go over the basic forum rules:

1. Do not attempt to clean up, spell-check, or better your entry. Leave it just as is, after you've pulled it out of your asshole and onto the screen. Preserve the smell, it does a service to those who look for that sort of thing.
2. Use every logical fallacy imaginable, and state every argument of yours as if your opinion is somehow some illuminating truth.
3. Make sure to keep bitching about video games not being the way you want them to be. There may be others that have it worse than you, but let's not forget that this is an internet forum, and ego-centricity ought to be its' main ingredient.
4. Use an inflamattory thread title, like "Nintendo fucked up" or "Logic 101," because it's bound to get a lot of responses, and will soon be the Moderator's "Top Picks" lists.
5. Call other people's post "overreactions" while being the initial poster of a 4-page list of complaints that was unprovoked and written on your own accord. Nobody would ever think of calling you an overinitiator. At worst, they will settle for loser, which is easily killed by calling them a bad name.
 
A person named MarioColbert, adding NOTHING to the conversation but just bashing the OP for stating his opinion about Nintendo?

Is it possible to believe I predicted such a thing before even clicking on the link?

NO. IMPOSSIBLE.
 
My favorite thing about this topic, is that all the people who attack me for my opinion... use "leet" language and curse at me.

So awesome.

I dont know they're ages, but I would assume they're too young to remember when Nintendo WAS the center of the gaming universe. Maybe that's why they're happy with getting the same 5 games over and over again.

Back in my day, Nintendo sequels were different games completely and you were in for a real treat all around. (Maybe except Zelda II)

I just think it's funny that the only ones accusing me of being a fanboy, are nintendo fanboys. The kind that are quick to blame Namco for making Starfox shitty, or blame Capcom for leaving a dead system, or everyone else for why Nintendo hasnt supported the Gamecube with a good game since Paper Mario 2.

So, fanboys... you've officially ruined this topic... I guess it can be closed now. We can all go back to saying fuck this, and fuck that and talking like leet H4X0rs.

Instead of voicing an opinion for a company you love, you love EVERYTHING they do... making them sell the same games over and over again... but it'll catch up to them. And creating a new hardware product every year will catch up to them as well.... dip too many times, and you end up like Sega.

I remember when this was a symbol of quality -
Official_Nintendo_Seal_of_Quality_%28Original%29.jpg
Now its just
Nintendo_Seal_of_Quality.png
cause the "Quality" is gone.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']A person named MarioColbert, adding NOTHING to the conversation but just bashing the OP for stating his opinion about Nintendo?[/quote]

Oh, you mean that I didn't go into deep philosophy of whether or not Square was an asset to Nintendo during the SNES era? Or polluting this thread with abundant nonchalance over the verdict of opinion expressed about GameCube StarFox/Mario Sports games? Should have I explained why in most cases, nobody really cares about what some individual's opinion is about where Mario should go next? Or maybe point out that there is some O'Reily Factor-like editing of the game citations illustrating the point that there's only one "big mario" game, despite the fact that there are two Zelda titles, and two Metroids? Should I point out that the OP is grasping the straws when he accuses Nintendo of "redoing" the GameCube, when they release multiple color editions? I can't settle on "which one," because I only check this forum at work, and I only work 8 hours in a day.


Three pages into this "discussion" (and it's not a good one, because few good answers can come out of shitty questions, for an obvious exception go see Strell's post above) and you want "contributions" to what exactly? If you think my post isn't "topical enough," perhaps you could have prevented it from happening by posting your response a little bit higher... Say, as the second entry / 1st reply to this "ingenious" list of observations. Like this:

[quote name='Roufuss']A person named MookyJooky, adding NOTHING to the conversation but just bashing the Nintendo for releasing their opinion about where videogames are ought to go?[/quote]

I even left your original question mark in there, so that you know it's authentic.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']
Instead of voicing an opinion for a company you love, you love EVERYTHING they do... making them sell the same games over and over again... but it'll catch up to them. And creating a new hardware product every year will catch up to them as well.... dip too many times, and you end up like Sega.
[/QUOTE]

Beyond the fact that I could chastize you for other parts of this post, as well as for the fact that you're doing exactly what I suggested in my first post, I have a real, real issue with this paragraph.

In fact, I'm pretty sure anyone who knows anything about Nintendo would take these words the most egregiously, as they actually call Nintendo akin to Sega.

But then I think about that - comparing Nintendo to Sega - and I realize that this entire thread is a total joke. The entire thing being argued is coming from someone who is comparing the most successful game company of all time to the one that hung its dick up years ago.

Juka, I know you are smarter than that, but I'm tired of bullshit like this. If you're going to attempt to make sense, do it better next time.
 
Briefly, Mooky, I have to state that I am personally impressed by your consistancy; Once again, you have completely ignored my post, as you did in the previous thread. I would expect a half-hearted rebuttle, or at the very least a defensive statement, but I suppose I overestimated you. Touche.
 
List of Fresh Nintendo Licenses...

Basically, new licenses and gametypes... I count sidescrolling Mario once, but I'll count Mario Golf as a different gametype. Even some N64 games based on the 3D graphical upgrade. Removed sports games, as even though they have some minor mini-games...tennis is still tennis if it has Mario in it or not. Cut out rehashes from other systems as well. I left in racing games as they tend to have their own rules.

My point of this, is that they have tons of licenses, yet, they release Mario Party to infinity. When is Nintendo gonna make something new, or at least use an old licenses.

Arcade:
Mario Bros.
Donkey Kong
Killer Instinct (w/Rare)

Nintendo Entertainment System:
Balloon Fight
Barker Bill's Trick Shooting
Clu Clu Land
Donkey Kong
Dr. Mario
Duck Hunt
Excitebike
Faxanadu
Gumshoe
Gyromite
Hogan's Alley
Ice Climber
Kid Icarus
The Legend of Zelda
Mario Bros.
Metroid
Short Order/Eggsplode!!
StarTropics
Stack-Up
Super Mario Bros. Series
Tetris
Urban Champion
Wario's Woods
Wild Gunman
Wrecking Crew
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II

Super Nintendo:
Battle Clash
Donkey Kong Country Series
EarthBound
F-Zero
Kirby Series
Mario Paint
Pilotwings
Star Fox
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario World
Super Metroid
Super Scope 6 Series
Tinstar
Yoshi's Safari

Nintendo 64:
Donkey Kong 64 (New game type, give it to "N")
The Legend of Zelda Series (New game type, give it to "N")
Mario Party
Paper Mario
Pokémon
Super Mario 64 (New game type, give it to "N")
Wave Race 64
Super Smash Bros.

Gamecube:
Animal Crossing
Battalion Wars
Chibi-Robo!
Custom Robo
Donkey Konga (New game type, give it to "N")
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Geist
Luigi's Mansion (New game type, give it to "N")
Odama
Pikmin
Wario World

Wii:
Disaster: Day of Crisis
ExciteTruck
Project H.A.M.M.E.R.
Wii Music Orchestra (tech demo?)
 
Who's The Twitch Now?;2038633 said:
Briefly, Mooky, I have to state that I am personally impressed by your consistancy; Once again, you have completely ignored my post, as you did in the previous thread. I would expect a half-hearted rebuttle, or at the very least a defensive statement, but I suppose I overestimated you. Touche.
Click to expand...
I of course am one person, and personally... everyone said what you said already and said it better... I actually stopped reading your post when you wrote this.

"You are using juvenile, meaningless excuses and arguments to prove to yourself and us that your opinions are infallible."

I dont like people making assumptions of me, and you're missing the point completely.

The fact that you made another post to bitch about how I didnt get to you is nothing short of childish.

Also, I dont know what other thread you're talking about, I havent left this one in hours.
 
ummm....doesn't Hudson develop the Mario Party games and not Nintendo? Meaning that Nintendo spends relatively little time on the Mario Party games themselves? Thus, your accusation that they're spending too much time on Mario Party instead of other franchises completely invalid?

Of course, I could be wrong....

Edit:

Hey, waddya know. Mario Party 1-7 all developed by Hudson Soft, and only Published by Nintendo. I believe I heard somewhere that Nintendo gave them the license for it and Hudson is trying to churn out as many as they can before it runs out. Also...

Super Mario Strikers - Next Level Games
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour - Camelot Software (A second party I believe)
Mario Power Tennis - Camelot again

None of which are developed by ANY of Nintendo's main 1st party in-house studios. Quit complaining, having them is better than not having them.

[quote name='Mookyjooky']
The fact that you made another post to bitch about how I didnt get to you is nothing short of childish.[/QUOTE]


I'd say you ignoring his counter-opinion completely would be more childish than him trying to stand up to you more than once so that his counter-opinion may be read and countered yet again....He's trying to enter a discussion and you don't want him in, like it's some sort of secret club. Now that's childish.
 
Nintendo games are still fun and I shall keep paying $$ for them. I pay money for fun. I play games that are fun. Yay me!

*bitch bitch bitch* thats all I ever hear from dem hating fanboys
 
[quote name='SMMM']



I'd say you ignoring his counter-opinion completely would be more childish than him trying to stand up to you more than once so that his counter-opinion may be read and countered yet again....He's trying to enter a discussion and you don't want him in, like it's some sort of secret club. Now that's childish.[/QUOTE]

Amen. If you don't like the way Nintendo is going don't buy their products. It's really simple.
 
[quote name='Blitz']Amen. If you don't like the way Nintendo is going don't buy their products. It's really simple.[/quote]

God this is the worst argument; I hate having to continually hear it on these boards whenever criticism is given.

He likes Nintendo (a lot, in fact) and wants to buy their products. He wants to buy them (as do I), but wants to be assured that they don't continue their continual decline (in the console market, at least).

I wish we could go back to page two, where there was at least somewhat intelligent and adult discourse.
 
[quote name='2Fast']God this is the worst argument; I hate having to continually hear it on these boards whenever criticism is given.

He likes Nintendo (a lot, in fact) and wants to buy their products. He wants to buy them (as do I), but wants to be assured that they don't continue their continual decline (in the console market, at least).

I wish we could go back to page two, where there was at least somewhat intelligent and adult discourse.[/QUOTE]
How is that a bad argument? It's called a boycott. That's how you show displeasure with a company. Sales are the only thing they notice. You're saying "Look Nintendo, I don't like what you're doing, so I'm not giving you any money. If you change what you are doing, I will give you my money again." If that's not what the presenters of this argument in this thread are trying to do, I'm not sure why we're talking. Unless you hope that internet chatting will cause them to change their ways.

Frankly I think a lot of the complaints in this thread are moot until we see the beginning of the next generation. How third party support, new IPs, old IPs, etc will all come together is unknown. Maybe miraculously all your concerns are wiped away. Maybe not. But as it is, we're bitching back and forth about the current gen problems when it's just about over.
 
[quote name='botticus']How is that a bad argument? It's called a boycott. That's how you show displeasure with a company. Sales are the only thing they notice. You're saying "Look Nintendo, I don't like what you're doing, so I'm not giving you any money. If you change what you are doing, I will give you my money again." If that's not what the presenters of this argument in this thread are trying to do, I'm not sure why we're talking. Unless you hope that internet chatting will cause them to change their ways.[/quote]
It's just a lame last-ditch cop-out thing to say and yet people think they are so smug by saying one of the most obvious things there is.

"I don't like some of things that Nintendo is doing and have my doubts about their future products based on their recent history (with the Gamecube mainly). I still have love for the company and want to make sure that they're heading in the right direction. Here is a list of things I feel that the company is/has been doing wrong, care to have an adult discussion about them?"

"Well then don't buy their stuff." - Completely stupid and unrelated response.

Boycotts are a good way to tell a company you are displeased (thanks for telling me that, by the way, I'm twelve years old). However, criticism also works, and that's what's going on here.

It just seems like no one can criticize someone/something without another person adding that lame argument that everyone already realizes to the mix. No one also realizes that you can criticize something and *still* like it and enjoy it. How many times does Mooky have to say he's a Nintendo fan?
 
[quote name='Skylander7']I gotta disagree with two of these, although this entire forum is merely opinion of perspective.

The Virtual Console is a great idea, as Nintendo has wanted a way to kill both emulation and the game collecting market for ages.[/quote]

In my opinion the virtual console isn't going to do either. Why? You'll still have to pay some sort of fee, be it per game or monthly. Emulators and Roms you don't. Also, the actual game collectors (not people who just want to play the old games) are more about have a physical copy of the game, not just being able to play it.
 
The thing that I hated most for a long time about Nintendo is the faulty ass blinking light original NES back in the day. That is one thing I'll never forgive them for. When you were a middle school kid back in 1990 or whatever $150 was a lot of money, and when your system started blinking instead of playing games after a year it sucked. There was no Internet to tell us how to fix it and it was easier to buy a new control deck than to get mommy and daddy to send it back for overpriced repairs. they should have been class actioned and forced to trade in our front loaders for top loaders for free or cheap (
 
[quote name='2Fast']It's just a lame last-ditch cop-out thing to say and yet people think they are so smug by saying one of the most obvious things there is.

"I don't like some of things that Nintendo is doing and have my doubts about their future products based on their recent history (with the Gamecube mainly). I still have love for the company and want to make sure that they're heading in the right direction. Here is a list of things I feel that the company is/has been doing wrong, care to have an adult discussion about them?"

"Well then don't buy their stuff." - Completely stupid and unrelated response.

It just seems like no one can criticize someone/something without another person adding that lame argument that everyone already realizes to the mix. No one also realizes that you can criticize something and *still* like it and enjoy it. How many times does Mooky have to say he's a Nintendo fan?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps it's just me, but it's hard to tell how Mooky likes anything Nintendo has done in the recent decade. It might be easier to have a discussion if maybe he and others presented things that they thought Nintendo has done RIGHT lately. Then there could be more dialog along the lines of "Well, I like how Nintendo has done this with x franchise. Wouldn't it make sense to treat y franchise in a similar fashion?" When you criticize every Nintendo franchise (namely Mario, Zelda, Metroid), every business decision, and every product they have developed or been associated with over the last two generations, I'm not sure where you expect the discussion to lead because clearly a large number of people disagree with you (based both on this thread and on number of units sold).

[quote name='2Fast']Boycotts are a good way to tell a company you are displeased (thanks for telling me that, by the way, I'm twelve years old). [/quote]
But thanks for responding in an adult fashion! :D
 
[quote name='wageslave'] 'Star Trek Ship Commander MMORPG'. Thats what I'd like to play! :)[/quote]

That would rule! Here's hoping :pray:

(a 360 version would be nice at least)
 
I'll just throw in my own 2 cents here.

Nintendo used to be my system of choice, but now I prefer xbox. I switched because of how online gaming was handled last generation. I'm not saying I don't like Nintendo, it's just chances are I'll play my 360 more than my Wii someday.

Yea Nintendo makes some mistakes, but then again so do all the companies. As long as a company is putting out games you like, then just buy them and enjoy them.
 
[quote name='botticus']But thanks for responding in an adult fashion! :D[/quote]

Sorry for being an ass. You really are a great CAG, I just don't like it when I'm seemingly being talked down to.
 
[quote name='2Fast']Sorry for being an ass. You really are a great CAG, I just don't like it when I'm seemingly being talked down to.[/QUOTE]
Nah, that's why I put the smiley on there ;) I didn't intend my previous post to be taken as such, but that's my fault.
 
Sorry, I couldn't stop my fingers from firing off their rocket launchers after reading about 1/3 of your list forcing me to start typing before I finish reading.

Anyway,

I like the original GBA form factor by far the best. I played so many hours on it. The screen was kind of crummy, but it was fun! The whole point of the blasted thing.

I wish EA would go out of business and put Burnout on the auction block.

I agree about the DS gimmick dual/touch screen thing. I wish it was non-flip single screen, in fact, I wish it was the original GBA with 4 buttons, 2 shoulders and the screen (non-touch is fine).

Why does every good game need a sequel? Good games don't need sequels. They are fun and continue to be fun even after time and lots of play.

Many people, like me don't give a flying fuck about online games and don't want them. Subscriptions and paying for virtual bits of data instead of some sort of media doesn't sit well with me and I refuse to contribute towards it popularity. When Nintendo does Xbox live I quit keeping up with the new school gaming stuff and stay with the previous generations.

I find the Mario Sports games more fun than the any of the other sports games out. Sorry, I just do. Madden blows and always had. It was fun on the Genesis, to a degree (more so then current Madden). However, this is coming from someone who still plays hours of Tecmo Super Bowl almost daily.

Technology improves and such items become cheaper over time. Live with it. The original DS was fine and still is. It's not broken because a new model came out.

The GBA SP breaks my hands, the micro is where it's at for me, nearly perfect.

Seriously, Dr. Mario sequel? Get a life. It's a puzzle game. Have you conquered it yet? Does the game even finish? I'd sure like to know. If you haven't, why do you want a sequel if you haven't finished it yet?
 
People that don't see the value in stylus games haven't played Osu Tatake Ouendan (which is understandable given that it's import-only).

Wait until Elite Beat Agents comes out, then talk. I've never played a more fun and innovative hand-held game.
 
I'd like to thank those who saw fit to debunk Mooky's "Childish" critique. It says something when more than one person sticks up for someone when they were ridiculously ridiculed. Praise alliteration.

Anyway, I think I'm done with the "You think I'M childish, when YOU'RE the one who..." arguments. We're here to discuss gaming, and that's what I'll try to do. As one last note on the subject, I'm sorry if my comment insulted you, but there's very little reason there to not even read my argument. Anyway, peace.

It's good that you saw fit to change the original post, Mooky. That shows that you listened to at least the criticism about the redundancy. It's obvious you want to like Nintendo, but are having serious doubts. That's fine. What I'm trying to show you is that you have very little reason to dislike Nintendo's choices.

In addition to the previously-stated fact about your main "Rehash" concerns being developed by other companies, some of the things you're asking for are pretty picky. Many people want a Kid Icarus sequel (besides the Game Boy one), and we may get it. But for now, we'll have to contend ourselves with the original on Virtual Console and Pit in Smash Bros.: Brawl. I'd have to look over your list again, but this is just as an example.

But let's finally look at the things Nintendo has done right. When the Gamecube started lacking, they dropped the price to 99 bucks with a game. For a few months, it sold 4 times each the amount of PS2s and Xboxs, if I'm not mistaken.

Sure, Zelda has taken a long time to come out, but it simply wasn't ready in its form a year ago. In fact, my one concern with it was the four-legged gameplay, which has never worked well in a game. This is what they spent 6 months fixing, along with adding several new dungeons to make the longest game Nintendo has ever produced. Sure, we're talking about a game that isn't out yet, but it will be out, and it will be nothing short of a flagship title.

You say they abandoned the Gamecube. Perhaps. I personally sold my Gamecube to get some extra cash until the Wii comes out, but there are several games that have come out recently and a few that I want that haven't yet. It's not the focus, but it's not abandoned.

The Wii is looking great. The controller is innovative to most, whether you choose to believe so or not, and the library looks very, very strong, even at launch. I can honestly say that there are 5 or 6 games that I "Must" have very soon after launch, whereas there wasn't very much I was even interested in at the 360's launch, and even now, 70 bucks is a LOT to pay for a single game, no matter how appealing. Nintendo's doing their best to keep game costs down, and they're offering a lot of incentive. Do you think we could play Duck Hunt 2 without the Zapper attachment? Of course, but adding that little slipcase to the package makes it much more nostalgic and appealing for the potential buyer.

The following is purely a dream, but it is, at the very least, possible. It is what I can possibly see Nintendo offering as an "Ultimate" package for the Wii's launch:

Wii system
2 Wii Remotes, 2 Nunchuks, 2 Classic Controllers, 2 Zapper Attachments
1 Memory unit (of some kind or another)
1 Free Virtual Console download
Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, Virtual Console downloads.
1 1st-party-developed game.
Total Cost = $300 + whatever else you want, +tax.

Now, as I said, it's a long-shot. But, it serves a purpose, because here's the absolute bare minimum for the PS3 launch:

PS3 60 GB system = $600
1 extra controller = $50?
1 game = I'll say $60, but it may be more than that.
1 Memory Unit = $30.
Total cost = $850, with nothing else.

That's a huge difference, and it's already been shown in user polls that about 75% of gamers want just the Wii, and about 12% want just the PS3. If no one else bought anything else at launch, and if my estimates proved true, that would mean that out of 100 buyers, Nintendo would get $22,500. Sony would get approximately $10,200. Sony would also lost money because the PS3's hardware is too expensive to charge ONLY $600 for. This is what Nintendo is doing right - They are making a MASSIVELY appealing console, which is cheap to produce and develop for, and making substancially more, hypothetically, than the PS3, at launch.

Sony's biggest problem is assuming we'll all buy the PS3. We won't. They are assuming it will be MORE successful than the PS2, and not everybody bought that even at $300. It's ludicrous, and it shows poor, poor market strategy.
 
[quote name='SMMM']I'd say you ignoring his counter-opinion completely would be more childish than him trying to stand up to you more than once so that his counter-opinion may be read and countered yet again....He's trying to enter a discussion and you don't want him in, like it's some sort of secret club. Now that's childish.[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? He made a post, and because I didnt comment to it in 45 mins or less my topic is forfit because I ignored him? I didnt ignore him, I chose to just move on to the person who stuck to the topic and didnt start out the post verbally attacking me personally.

He's going on about ignoring him, but I'm not... I just didnt get to his yet... Him talking shit to me isnt my fault either.

I cant stop him from entering the disscussion if I wanted, its a free topic... he's just talking shit to me and attacking me personally to flame and make the topic pointless because I didnt rebuttal something everyone said on the first page.
 
Taking them in order:

1) I got plenty of use from my original GBA and still have it for GBC games. I rarely had a problem finding a proper light source I could position myself by for play. It was the first GameBoy model I bothered to buy. The B&W models were far harder to use and didn't merit a purchase. The few early GameBoy games I really wanted to play I used on the Super GameBoy. At the time of its release the GBA was the best that could be done while not exceeding the $99 upper limit on a GameBoy price. Nintendo sold many millions of that model and by all indications the satisfaction level was far higher than the decibels of the whining.

When reduced cost allowed, Nintendo introduce the SP with screen-lighting and rechargeable battery. Since I had already gotten extensive use from my GBA with an added battery pack that also made it fit my hands better, I didn't feel at all ripped off. If the SP had been available at the time of my GBA purchase it would have been at least $50 more and I still would have gone for the less expensive model.

2) Square contributed much to Super Famicom sales but hardly did anything for the Super Nintendo. Every single game Square published for the SNES put together wouldn't make it into the Top 20 bestselling US SNES games. Even in worldwide SNES/SF sales, a Square title doesn't come up until the 12th position in this listing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bestselling_computer_and_video_games

Shocking to some but Square didn't become a big mainstream brand in the US until FFVII. US sales on Nintendo platforms had been such that half the FF series never saw release here on their original platforms.

So NOA didn't have that much cause for anxiety of Square's decision to favor CD-ROM and NCL likely thought they could win them back since the real effect of the PlayStation was not yet known. Up until then, consoles dependent on CD-ROM had been failures. Square was a big third party publisher but not the biggest by far and only one of many. Without any way of knowing how much the RPG genre would grow in the US on the PlayStation, Square was far from Nintendo's biggest worry when it came to lining up third parties for the N64.

3) Yet they continue to make mountains of net revenue. Nintendo stopped being as concerned with third party support when they lost their stranglehold on third party publishers in the SNES era. They loved it then because their contracts made them the only game in town and they didn't have to compete for third party support. Instead they could do all kinds of stuff that some game publishers with long memories still resent. For instance, if NOA wanted to pump up the quarterly results, they'd tell a company that their cartridge production run would only happen as scheduled if they upped their order by 100K units. That meant an easy $Million in royalty fees that were almost pure profit. When Sony came in with media costs and ordering schedule that were the stuff of dreams compared to dealing with Nintendo, there were companies that had wanted to tell Old Man Yamauchi to go fuck himself for a decade that finally had their chance.

Nintendo's current third party support issues can be traced all the way back to the mid-80s.

BTW, EA released several GameCube titles in 2006 and has announced six games for the Wii.

4) Works fine for me. Does every game make good use of it? No. But if that were the requirement the DS either wouldn't exist or would have a very small library. I don't expect every major feature of a platform to be supported by every title. In the case of the DS there are more than enough games that do make good use of the dual screens to qualify the concept. On the SNES only a fraction of the games made good use of the much touted Mode 7 features. Did this mean that Mode 7 was a worthless gimmick or did it just mean it didn't have a role to play in every game and the abundance of multiplatform crap movie and TV licenses are unlikely to make good use of any one platform.

5) Mario Party does an excellent business. Every game in the series has moved well over a million units and several of them have exceeded two million sold. You have to pay me a goodly wage to play Madden but that doesn't alter the fact that it makes a mint every year. The Mario Party series all by itself gave reason to have four controller ports on the GameCube. Nintendo has to love it when a game not only sells well but encourages the purchase of a full set of controllers.

Besides, Mario Party is a second party effort. If it weren't for the Nintendo license it would be Bomberman Party, perhaps with Bonk and the Adventure Island guy (Master Higgins IIRC) and some other Hudson owned characters. But with the Mario pantheon it has a lot more mainstream appeal. I'd be willing to bet that Mario Party 8 for the Wii is well underway to sell lots of additional Wii-motes.

6) Stupid people in slasher films manage to be completely ignorant of the genre and insist on going out in the dark alone. And slasher films with such stupid characters continue to have some of the best ROI in film production.

The same thing that you complain about in the Metroid series happens as well in RPGs series where the same characters appear. A guy who had become nearly a god in his level of power is back to level 1 the next time we see him. Link, in those cases where it is the same Link in consecutive Zelda titles, is back down to three hearts and tends to have misplaced all of his hardwon equipment.

The FFVII Advent Children movie touched upon this briefly. There was a scene where some dialogue quickly noted that two years after the events of FFVII, Cloud was the only member of the team who still had anything close to that power level. (My Cloud was level 99 with all attributes at 255 due to spending far too much time in the underwater base.)

Metroid games are playing out a beloved formula and the developers are loathe to mess with it. It may seem repetitive but it is also at the heart of the Metroid game structure. Perhaps they'll do something different on the Wii. Bowser kidnaps Samus. Mario remarks that he has never heard of any such bitch and he doesn't care if the kid was born with a familiar moustache and cap, then goes home to the castle for a nooner with Peach. Samus, long accustomed to dating non-humans, finds Bowser attractive but decides to play to get for the sport of it. Bowser then commences on a series of hilarious misadventures in his determination to impress Samus. After all, a woman who comes in a shell is irresistible to Bowser. He has long been troubled by his interspecies attraction to Peach and Samus' armor helps him look past the unseemly appearance of his approach to dating. We'll get the Feel the Magic/Rub Rabbits crew to do this one.

7) Hasn't happened yet, so no, I don't know. Nor have I any special reason to believe it. There are many millions of GameCube owners who aren't going to be Wii early adopters. If any game can still do big numbers on the GameCube, it's Twilight Princess.

8) Where are all the mainstream sales for same? By and large publishers know they can move a lot more of the same game just doing it on the PS2. Especially if it's a long faded genre like SHMUPS. It's been a long time since a shooter in the Gradius mold did serious numbers. The list of PS2 titles with sales of one million and higher doesn't include any that I can spot. That Ikaruga for GameCube even had a US release is remarkable.

The GameCube has one of the bestselling fighters of all time if you count SSBM. It also got a couple of new Mortal Kombats as well as the arcade originals in nostalgia packages. And Capcom vs. SNK, Soul Calibur 2, Viewtiful Joe: Red Hot Rumble, Turtles, license based fighters like X-men: Next Dimension, One Piece:Grand Battle, multiple Narutos, Marvel Nemesis, Bloody Roar, and others. Sure, a lot of them suck but that is Sturgeon's Law in action.

RPGs as a genre may do much better today than before FFVII drew so much attention but aside from the really big name franchises RPGs face an uphill climb for sales. In which case the platform with the biggest installed base is going to be the #1 choice. If you can only hope to reach 3% of the market on a particular machine, that machine better have a really big number of units out there. It wasn't for lack of trying. Tales of Symphonia broke a million sold worldwide but nothing else reached that mark and most did far worse. Baten Katos, Baldur's Gate, Darkened Skye, Summoner 2, LOTR: Third Age.

Publishers are going to place their games on platforms that either have huge market leads or are demographically well matched to the particular game. The GameCube is seen as a good place for a Spongebob title. A Max Payne, not so much.

9) On what do you base that? Although it hasn't been all one might wish for, the GameCube is hugely more successful than the Dreamcast. Unless Nintendo is blatantly lying, the GameCube has overall been a net profit for the company. Not nearly as great a money maker as past consoles or the assorted incarnations of the GBA, but worth the effort.

10) Because Nintendo had a standing army of inhouse developers and extensive second party deals before either Sony or Microsoft even had consoles on the market, and thus they don't see the need. It isn't Nintendo's policy to pay for third party content. Rather, they're accustomed to those publishers paying in the form of media production royalties to be on Nintendo's platform. They've managed to be a very profitable company without purchasing exclusivity on third party titles. The closest they've come to such deals didn't work out well. The Capcom deal was based on providing a variety of incentives rather than an outright cash payment. Primary of these was picking up the tab for the marketing of these titles. Capcom got cold feet before most of the games shipped due to their suspicion that a game like Killer 7 wasn't well suited to the GameCube demographic. This was correct in that nearly all GameCube owners are humans and Killer 7 did poorly among humans. Some were just bad luck. Critics showered adoration on Viewtiful Joe but retailers couldn't give it away. RE4 did well but had a huge franchise momentum behind it and could just as easily have done all of that business and then some on the PS2. The Xbox audience should have been highly receptive to that title as well but would have at best matched the GameCube sales.

11) Because it goes against their policy. The current boss Iwata recently spoke at length about his dislike for unstable prices. This is one reason the online distribution market holds so much appeal. Rather than having a small mountain of game packages produced and making retailers antsy if they don't sell a sufficient pace, there is instead just some files on a server. Since hard drive space is so cheap, there is far less incentive to drop the price on a game. If it sells really well and makes back its development cost, it can be discounted to reach a wider audience. But there would be no hurry. A game that sells very slowly might get a price drop in hopes of doing better in volume and making the payoff point within the same fiscal year as the release. A game that sells well but isn't a major hit can hold the same price for a long time. That is the way Nintendo likes it. Freed from media costs, their SRP will be lower than the competition's but their Player's Choice price point won't be as much as a reduction as the competition's games receive either.

Although, for what it's worth, I've gotten plenty of Nintendo published games in the recent blowout sales. Metroid Prime II, for instance, at CC for $9. I have a very big collection of GameCube games and paid over $20 for only one of them. That would be the Super Monkey Ball purchased to accompany my launch GameCube.

12) Do I really have to say it? Super Mario 64? At nearly 12 million units also one of the bestselling games of all time, and that is before counting the DS version.

13) The answer to #13 is to be found just below at #14. Star Fox passed from the Argonaut personnel who created the great SNES game and also away from the creators of the N64 hit. Star Fox Adventures started life with entirely original characters and was reworked to use the Star Fox characters fairly close to completion. The game might be judged more fairly if it had stayed with the original cast and stood on its own rather than being treated as a spin-off of what was really an unrelated franchise. The Namco crew who took on Star Fox Assault thought they had the feel of the series and could do more with it but it didn't prove out in execution.

Just because a game did a lot of business is not reason to do a sequel if the ideas aren't there to make it worthy. Consider how many crap sequels exist solely because the previous game did a lot of business, not because the creator has found further inspired use for the concepts. Nintendo can be credited with showing some restraint against doing sequel before the ideas are really there. Miyamoto is just one man and so far the secret cloning lab has had no success. After generating $Billions in revenue for the company, they're inclined to indulge his whims. He'll do the next major Mario platformer when he feels inspired, not when the accountants demand it.

Without a really inspired concept for bring it to the current era, a game that sold millions on the NES isn't necessarily going to hold that kind of appeal again. Dr. Mario has seen many revivals but no real sequel. There has been versions for pretty much every Nintendo platform, even if it was just the ugly NES Classic on the GBA. So it's gotten a lot of mileage since the NES but without a lot of added modes and tarting up.

Punch-Out got an SNES revival but didn't do all that well. A Wii version with a Wii-mote in each hand could be in the works.

Frankly, I strongly suspect Luigi's Mansion would not have done nearly as much business if it hadn't been a launch title and one that had people looking for the Second Coming of Super Mario 64. If it had come out in 2003 it would probably have lost a third or more of its sales to date.

Consider New Super Mario Bros. SNES owners would have loved a Super Mario World sequel, and here it is, just fifteen years later.

14) See above.

15) Nintendo dipped their toes into online ventures on numerous earlier occasions and found the world wasn't ready to deliver the numbers that gets Nintendo's interest. Sega's commitment to out of the box online support was a big mistake. Sony and Microsoft had to get quite far into the current generation to show a real console audience for online gaming and most of the consumers they drew were for game that are not Nintendo's strong suits. By and large, putting off a big online presence for their platforms didn't affect things much in this generation. The people who most desired online play were the least likely to be traditional Nintendo customers.

16) What would you have done? It wasn't that they didn't try. It was conceptually ahead of its time and of limited application. (The idea was far older. Atari demoed the Jaguar connecting to the Lynx in a similar fashion but never produced anything.) The cables reduced a lot of the appeal, much as they long had for several handheld multiplayer setups. Multiplayer is far more accessible on the newer WiFi equipped handhelds and they're going to be much easier to use in conjunction with their upcoming WiFi equipped console counterparts. The DS/Wii and PS3/PSP combos will explore the concept much farther I believe.

17) Mario gets generally very favorable reviews and makes heaps of money when he plays sports. Mario Golf, Tennis, and Soccer all have over a million sold. The soccer game probably saw a nice spike in sales in the last month thanks to the Rest of the World Cup.

18) See #17.

19) Because that doesn't sell anymore. In the days when all they had was wretched character mapped graphics with flickering sprites on very low capacity media, you couldn't offer much of a sensory experience. But you could code a huge amount of conditional stuff in very little space. One good set of tiles took up a lot of space by comparison. Modern games tend to hinge more on a visceral experience. Some of my all time favorite games could have disappeared in a puff of smoke when I finished and I wouldn't have minded. (Except for the lost resale value.) If they had anything left to show me I failed to find, it would have to be pretty major if it meant slogging through again. There is a point where fun becomes work. For me to do it again there has to be a major variation on the game offered. For instance, Star Ocean 2 on the PS2 had two choices of main character and far more character to be recruited into your team than could fit, so you had a lot of paths to choose for which ones you'd get. (Of course, I found a battle near the climax of that game so annoying I stopped playing and never got around to finishing it, nevermind doing it all over.)

Seems to me that Mario Sunshine was mainly spending hours finding all sorts of crap. You could spend a huge amount of time finding the exact way to reach a certain spot where a box of some object was visible.

20) Are you expecting some formal public announcement? It isn't as though Nintendo is facing some crisis like Sega did first with the Saturn and then with the Dreamcast. If retailers were complaining that they could no longer sell the GameCube at it's current price Nintendo would simply whip up a new bundle incentive or failing that, drop the price to $80. I greatly doubt there is a factory still producing truckloads of GameCubes daily that are threatening to become white elephants. The production lines would have been converted for manufacturing the Wii by now.

The real question is whether they'll produce a revised GameCube model that sells for $50 or less. Since the Wii chipset is a direct extension of the GameCube's at 90nm, they almost certainly used the GC chipset for initial test production before increasing the embedded RAM. Also, there is a thing called recoverable defects. If a chip intended for Wii use was unable to run at full speed but operated correctly at GC speed, or if there was a defective block of embedded RAM but enough was intact to serve as a GC part, these chips otherwise bound for the trash can could be used in a tiny, very low cost GameCube model to satisfy the last dregs of demand.

21) It's all about the numbers. PlayStation's got 'im, Nintendon't. Besides, what special advantage, other than making you happy, would those games receive from being on the GameCube?

Since the EyeToy was developed internally at Sony (although many similar products have existed), it seems unlikely Nintendo could have gotten it at all, nevermind an exclusive. EyeToy has done decent business but isn't huge. It's unlikely Nintendo would have done much better. It would have been supported by Mario Party but that hardly helps you, does it?

Your Sega question pretty much answered itself. Most of what Sega had to offer Nintendo didn't want. Again, what special advantage would the GC offer Sega's games that they wouldn't get on the competing machines? Early on Sega tried to categorize each machine by demographic but that ultimately proved pointless. Monkey Ball is a good seller anywhere you put it. Making it a GameCube exclusive for a while was more a benefit for Nintendo than for Sega. They would have been better off going multiplatform with it from the start.

22) Your analysis is based on hindsight rather than the real issue involved in design and manufacture of those handhelds. Both the original GBA and original DS found millions of satisfied customers before their replacement models became feasible. My 'phat' DS works perfectly and I have no urge to buy a DS Lite unless my existing DS dies. By the time that happens there may be yet another revision of the DS.

A major revision of the Wii that would make people like yourself driven insane by aesthetics over function is unlikely to happen for several years. Because a handheld incorporates so many functions that are fulfilled by separate equipment on a console, there is far more opportunities for engineering improvements. An N64 isn't affected by price drops to TV screens during its lifetime. It doesn't care if the set that was $800 when the N64 launched has dropped to $600 and lost 10 inches in depth three years later. But if Nintendo was selling the TV and N64 as one unit, then those cost reductions and technology improvements to the TV screen make a huge difference. No device is ever perfect. You go with the best that can be achieved at the time for the designated price point or you never end up selling anything.


I think a big part of the problem you're having is that Nintendo had too large a presence in your childhood. People who were NES playing kids in the 80s saw a world where Nintendo had a lock on the market due to their control of third party publishers. This created a false impression for kids that Nintendo could do no wrong when in fact they were human and made plenty of mistakes. Having competition locked out of the market made them so omnipresent it was hard for kids to see it. As soon as Nintendo had to compete on a level playing field they began to falter. The company still made tons of money but no longer appeared to have everything under control when they now had to work for things they'd previously gotten by default.

Kids who grew up under totalitarian regimes often have a hard time adjusting to freedom when it arrives.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']What the hell are you talking about? He made a post, and because I didnt comment to it in 45 mins or less my topic is forfit because I ignored him? I didnt ignore him, I chose to just move on to the person who stuck to the topic and didnt start out the post verbally attacking me personally.

He's going on about ignoring him, but I'm not... I just didnt get to his yet... Him talking shit to me isnt my fault either.

I cant stop him from entering the disscussion if I wanted, its a free topic... he's just talking shit to me and attacking me personally to flame and make the topic pointless because I didnt rebuttal something everyone said on the first page.[/QUOTE]

Again, I'm sorry I attacked you. However, it is questionable if indeed you read my apology, which was in the post directly before your newest, a full 8 hours before. This is not immaturity. This is saying that my opinion doesn't matter to you and that nothing I say, even apologetically, will be noticed by you. That's a very common human feeling, it's the feeling of being inconsequential, and I'd really appreciate it if you would acknowledge my points from now on, as my last post alone works out to over 3 pages of intelligently worked-out material. Thanks.
 
Nintendo Fanboys are sheep basically.

They speak of innovation, like their console is really the god of innovation. So, it has a stylis, and a WiiMote...

Why must you be brought into Nintendo's view on Innovation. It's innovative to have a control that you can move with the screen? Or is it just a gimmick?

So every single movie that has been released are stupid and uninspired, non changing? No, because the Movie itself is where people the see new exciting ideas, new approaches. And with the ever growing technology, people are able to expand on that and create even more elaborate, more immerse films that draw people in.

Nintendo constantly runs itself on its same basic core characters... And that’s innovation?

I'd rather have my companies striving to put out new, different games. Featuring new characters, environments, stories. An actual emotional impact involved with the player. Not just some mindless clicking of a control, clicking mario fast enough so he can blow up a balloon...

Maybe "Wii60". "Nintendo Fanboys", "xbox fanboys" are the ones scared of innovating... They don't want to leave their roots, they feel more secure sticking with a never changing ideal and characters that follows them throughout their lives...

But for some, we seek change. And Nintendo doesn’t bring that, not then, not now, not on the horizon.

Maybe, next time Nintendo says they are so "Different" , "Innovated", "Unique" why not look at the games... and then think what that really means...

I do not hate Nintendo, and I am going to be purchasing a Wii. Not because I think its the, "OMG one system to rule all!" but because it is still a "FUN" toy to play with. And is a fun gimmicky-toy to play with the family...

But when I want real gaming... and real story, immersion, emotional impact. Something that draws me in... I wont be picking up my WIIMOTE for that...
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']
But when I want real gaming... and real story, immersion, emotional impact. Something that draws me in... I wont be picking up my WIIMOTE for that...[/QUOTE]
Fire Emblem Wii. Nuff said. :D


But... where does the Xbox comment come from? They're following the same progression as PS3, since I'm assuming that's who you are favoring.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']But when I want real gaming... and real story, immersion, emotional impact. Something that draws me in... I wont be picking up my WIIMOTE for that...[/QUOTE]

Just curious, but what do you consider real gaming in terms of what's out right now?
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']
Why must you be brought into Nintendo's view on Innovation. It's innovative to have a control that you can move with the screen? Or is it just a gimmick? [/QUOTE]

Actually, it's an innovation. The DS's success and software library has proved that it's more than a gimmick, it's a new method of control for new and old genre's alike. Not unlike the Analog stick which nintendo also innovated in.

DS allows previously too complex or too unweildy designs to be more handheld friendly. Just look at Metroid Prime Hunters vs Coded Arms. There's no question over which handles FPS on a handheld better. In the same way, things like Brain Age would never be the same without handwriting recognition, or without voice recognition(regardless of the quality of either). Nintendogs would just be menus and pushing buttons, not watching a digital creature respond to your actual voice and motions.

Looking at the future, the possiblities for DS haven't even been explored yet. You're probably the type of person who groans at the concept of mario basketball, but it's also because you haven't looked into the unique control style (tap to dribble, drag to pass, etc) and the fact that the game started out as a Square-Enix idea that nintendo wanted to partner up on and help gain recognition with the Mario name. That's not even mentioning Ouendan/EBE which, as far as i can tell, is the only decent implementation of rhythm gameplay into a portable, unless you include those awful japanese GBA DDR titles.

I really didn't understand what you were talking about with film, so i can't say anything about it.

Nintendo constantly runs itself on its same basic core characters... And that’s innovation?
Click to expand...

I think that this one's been answered a million times already. The characters are popular and allow strong but foreign concepts (like DS/Wii/Super Smash/Paper Mario/Wario Ware/Cel-shaded zelda/FPS Metroid) to have a hint of familiarity that helps spark interest and make them more consumer friendly.
If something like Mario soccer didn't have mario in it and it was basically just a sequel to sega soccer slam (another fun, but forgotten game by the SAME developer) I'd pass it over in an instant. Maybe that makes me shallow, but in the sea of shit that sits on retail shelves now, familiar characters mean a lot in a first impression. It's unfortunate, but true.

Do you honestly think that Resident Evil 4 would have been as successful without a long established Resident Evil fanbase behind it? The game would still have been as fun, but I doubt the sales would have been there.
On the other hand, Beyond Good and Evil was a critically acclaimed title that saw little commercial success. If it'd been Princess Zelda's adventures against an evil organization in hyrule using her camera with the same basic gameplay and concepts, it'd have been a commercial hit as well.

I'd rather have my companies striving to put out new, different games. Featuring new characters, environments, stories. An actual emotional impact involved with the player. Not just some mindless clicking of a control, clicking mario fast enough so he can blow up a balloon...
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume based on your continued love fof "stories and emotions" that you're a gamer who enjoys RPGs and other story based games. Typically genres that see you spending 40 hours MINDLESSLY CLICKING THROUGH MENUS. It seems to me that most normal styled japanese RPGs are just mediocre literature/film with menu clicking thrown in to simulate some sort of interactivity. And their main demographic is intellectual wannabes who don't get into real literature, so they bite on RPGs' cliched, trite stories.

Maybe "Wii60". "Nintendo Fanboys", "xbox fanboys" are the ones scared of innovating... They don't want to leave their roots, they feel more secure sticking with a never changing ideal and characters that follows them throughout their lives...
But for some, we seek change. And Nintendo doesn’t bring that, not then, not now, not on the horizon.
Click to expand...

Such a powerful, bucking the masses quote makes me think you're stricken with anti-establishement needs to be different. I haven't yet figured out what your unmentioned alternative is to nintendo's "failed innovation attempts" but my best guesses are with square enix's mediocrity, or just any small time company whos games play the underdog at retail and are adored for that.

Sony certainly isn't delivering anything new, with their me-too attempts at every turn to copy MS and Nintendo's legitimate innovations. At least Microsoft innovated in creating a workable worldwide online community and marketplace that millions swear by. Sony is the biggest follower of the three. Nintendo has and always will play by their own rules and what they believe will work.

So far, their systems have never dissapointed for myself and millions of others. To call us "sheep" because we believe in a long history of nintendo's products that have been good to us and because of the rosy childhood memories involved is just ignorance.
Someday, after Sony has their failures and falls from the top of the industry, there'll be sony apologists too who'll wax poetic about the first time they played twisted metal, or FFVII, or Crash Bandicoot, or whatever those sony kids played. And just like us nintendo lovers (and the sega/atari fans before us), they will support sony to the end. Brand loyalty isn't being "sheep" although saying so briefly makes you look totally anti-establishment and like such a rebel. Kudos for that, a lot of people will probably buy into it.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']From whats been said, the Wii wasnt even that awesome at E3.[/QUOTE]

Where has this been said? Some alternate bizarro internet?
 
Reality's Fringe;2038506]The fact is said:
The Wii isn't bringing any new ways to play. If I want to stand up aiming something at the screen shooting people I can play Time Crisis. If I want to swing a sword I can go to the arcade. I sell virtual pong at work. I have the Eyetoy for PS2, and that allows a lot of stuff too. All Wii does is put it in one big box, without wires.

Casual gamers will see this as something new, because honestly, besides your non casual gamers who always goes to arcades you play those sword games, picked up Time Crisis 3 on sale at EB, or owns the whole library of Eyetoy games? They'll be like "ooo virtual sports, I saw this at a kiosk at the mall but now it's made by Nintendo! They make video games! It's cheap!"
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='TimPV3']The Wii isn't bringing any new ways to play. If I want to stand up aiming something at the screen shooting people I can play Time Crisis. If I want to swing a sword I can go to the arcade. I sell virtual pong at work. I have the Eyetoy for PS2, and that allows a lot of stuff too. All Wii does is put it in one big box, without wires.

Casual gamers will see this as something new, because honestly, besides your non casual gamers who always goes to arcades you play those sword games, picked up Time Crisis 3 on sale at EB, or owns the whole library of Eyetoy games? They'll be like "ooo virtual sports, I saw this at a kiosk at the mall but now it's made by Nintendo! They make video games! It's cheap!"[/QUOTE]
Wow.

Okay, so I guess you don't need to pick up Red Steel, Metroid Prime 3, Wii Sports, DQ Swords (maybe), Duck Hunt (maybe) and... I think that's it. That leaves WarioWare, Trauma Center, Super Mario Galaxy, Madden, ExciteTruck, Downhill Jam, Elebits, Project H.A.M.M.E.R., Rayman, Super Monkey Ball, Wii Music, DBZ and a few others (probably Necro-Nesia, Day of Disaster, Resident Evil, Fire Emblem, and Crystal Chronicles) as currently announced titles that don't really fit what you are claiming you can do now. I think that's probably enough games for you. Enjoy!

And yes, we know some of those mayend up sucking, but that happens on every system, irrelevant of the control scheme.
 
Oh come now, you really can't compare Eyetoy to the Wii because that's comparing an add-on versus a core component.

And you really can't say that it's analogous to Time Crisis 3. In interface they are about half and half at best.

Beyond that, I think we all need to not argue about how the games will be/control because none of us have a damn clue, with the small exception of a few people who went to E3 (which, oddly, seems to be some of the most anti-Nintendo of the CAG bunch), and even that is a place so full of extra-sensory overload that you can't formulate that great of an opinion.

I think there's some good arguments here both for and against the big N, but there's some really odd ones that can't be relegated in any manner given what we all know.

I'm going to wait until November, when the thing comes out, and we'll discuss it then (yes, I have a good idea of the release date given some sources I have).
 
Are you suggesting that there are only two ways to use the Remote? Are you that narrow-minded? Sure, it'll be a sword and gun; that's what people want. But there are countless other innovations down the line, and all your arguments like, "The gimmick will get tired and they'll use it as a regular controller," are based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. You're counting out the possibility of innovation before you take the time to look at the possibilities of innovation. That's simple, stubborn blindness.
 
[quote name='botticus']Wow.

Okay, so I guess you don't need to pick up Red Steel, Metroid Prime 3, Wii Sports, DQ Swords (maybe), Duck Hunt (maybe) and... I think that's it. That leaves WarioWare, Trauma Center, Super Mario Galaxy, Madden, ExciteTruck, Downhill Jam, Elebits, Project H.A.M.M.E.R., Rayman, Super Monkey Ball, Wii Music, DBZ and a few others (probably Necro-Nesia, Day of Disaster, Resident Evil, Fire Emblem, and Crystal Chronicles) as currently announced titles that don't really fit what you are claiming you can do now. I think that's probably enough games for you. Enjoy!

And yes, we know some of those mayend up sucking, but that happens on every system, irrelevant of the control scheme.[/QUOTE]Red Steel = Time Crisis/Killer 7/arcade sword game hybrid. I apologize I forgot about all those titles, but we already have Downhill Jam on DS, same with Trauma Center (are you supposed to stand and wave your arms to operate? Gee, that would be cool), and I don't know enough about those titles to make a valid argument, even though my first one wasn't even close to that. But hey, have fun playing football without an analog controller, and standing up to do your kamahameha's. While we list all the Wii games that aren't even launch titles, why don't we list all the other announced titles for PS3 and 360 too.

Who's The Twitch Now?;2039779]The following is purely a dream said:
Nintendo charged $40 for a Wavebird, so I'd imagine that's how much a Wiimote will cost. If the system alone with a Wiimote and probably a nunchuk will (most likely) be $249.99, I honestly doubt you'll get a virtual console download rumored to be $5, a $40 Wiimote, 2 zapper attachments, another nunchuk, a game, and a memory unit for $300. Good luck though.
Who's The Twitch Now?;2039779] Now said:
$600 + $50 + $60 = $710, even with a memory stick it would only be $740 so you had some sweet math going on that one. No need for a memory unit though because the PS3 comes with a hard drive. So you're paying $710 for an awesome looking game, 60 GB worth of space (that would cost $300 if you had to buy 3 20GB HD's for the 360, but that's an irrelevant argument with a supposed bigger HD coming this year), the ability to play all of your old PS2/PSX games without having to buy them all over again, a DVD/CD/Blu-Ray player out of the box (it's unknown if Wii will play DVD movies right away), a Linux operating system, a better online service (have fun with friend codes), giant enemy crabs, and some other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting. Wii is definately more worth it, but what the fuck ever, I'm still getting both.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='TimPV3']Red Steel = Time Crisis/Killer 7/arcade sword game hybrid. I apologize I forgot about all those titles, but we already have Downhill Jam on DS, same with Trauma Center (are you supposed to stand and wave your arms to operate? Gee, that would be cool), and I don't know enough about those titles to make a valid argument, even though my first one wasn't even close to that. But hey, have fun playing football without an analog controller, and standing up to do your kamahameha's. While we list all the Wii games that aren't even launch titles, why don't we list all the other announced titles for PS3 and 360 too.
[/QUOTE]
That's why I said you don't need to get Red Steel. And you don't need to stand up to use the damn remote, good God. Have you seen the controls for Madden? Flicking the nunchuk to juke left or right? Yeah, beats button pressing. But you must have missed Madden on the PC back in the day when we used the keyboard. :lol: And actually, the vast majority of those are planned as launch-window titles (they expect 24, we'll see), which can certainly change. I think the only ones that weren't are... DBZ, RE, and Fire Emblem.

What do the non-launch PS3 and 360 games have to do with anything? Do they use different controls?
 
Who's The Twitch Now?;2043711 said:
Are you suggesting that there are only two ways to use the Remote? Are you that narrow-minded? Sure, it'll be a sword and gun; that's what people want. But there are countless other innovations down the line, and all your arguments like, "The gimmick will get tired and they'll use it as a regular controller," are based on nothing. Absolutely nothing. You're counting out the possibility of innovation before you take the time to look at the possibilities of innovation. That's simple, stubborn blindness.
Click to expand...
I'm not being blind. I never said anything like the gimmick will get tired and it'll be used as a regular controller, if anything I think people will get tired from having to stand with their arm extended to use it. I'm aware of most of the innovations that will come, but you summed it up here:

Sure, it'll be a sword and gun; that's what people want.

I'm not going to stand up to break in billiards, run around the room playing pong or swinging the Wiimote like a bat for baseball, because like I said, those are gimmicks that you see in little kiosks at the mall during Christmas, little plug in systems with wireless paddles that you use to swing. Those are really exciting. The only thing I think anybody really care about are using it as a sword and gun. I haven't used it for this, but it sounds impractical to stand up next to your TV (even weirder far away) to make precision cuts in Trauma Center. What sounds decent is conducting an orchestra, or shooting an arrow (same thing as a gun, except the pulling back). I know I'm missing all the other cool stuff so while you're flaming me be sure to include it in great detail.
 
[quote name='botticus']That's why I said you don't need to get Red Steel. And you don't need to stand up to use the damn remote, good God. Have you seen the controls for Madden? Flicking the nunchuk to juke left or right? Yeah, beats button pressing. And actually, the vast majority of those are planned as launch-window titles (they expect 24, we'll see), which can certainly change. I think the only ones that weren't are... DBZ, RE, and Fire Emblem.

What do the non-launch PS3 and 360 games have to do with anything? Do they use different controls?[/QUOTE]If you're not standing what's the point? It can't be fun sitting on the couch with your hand sitting on an armrest. Non-launch PS3 and 360 titles have nothing to do with this, this thread turned into a Nintendo vs. the World thread, and it's not fair to compare the current and launch games of 360/PS3 games to Wii titles we won't see for a while.
 
I'm bored with honestly nothing else to do, so i'll add my thoughts.

1. I agree with the fact that it sucked to have to buy another GBA just because they decided to make a better one, but the reality is that it was better hence worth getting it. They could have left it like it was, but they chose to redesign it. Weather it be for money, artistic view, or just to produce something better/cooler, they still gave us something superior.

2. Square did do alot for the snes, but far from held it up. The titles you listed are the only thing that squaresoft has released in a while that have been that good, so we arn't missing out.

3. EA is the biggest mainstream unoriginal company out there, it's a good thing they jumped ship. They care about money, not innovation, that's why they left. As for other 3rd party support, They go where the money is. Where's the money? PS2.

4. A gimmick that not only impressed and amazed japan, but the US as well. I personally enjoy the simplest thing which is not having to pause to check the map in a game. It also may not have the huge list of games to support the touchscreen, but that's just icing on the cake. 2 screens are better than 1. Don't get me wrong tho, some games do suck.

5. Mario party does suck. It used to be awesome, but they overdid it. Now think about that for a second. It used to be a great party game on the cube till they came out with 7 of them. Do you think you'd still enjoy smash brothers the same if they would have released the 7th title by now? No. Why? Because innovation dies when you release the same thing over and over with no pause inbetween.

6. As true as the metroid thing is, the games are still amazing. Besides, Losing her powers is what makes the game challenging. Storywise, they're all different. They just add that to make it challenging, tho boring.

7. Do we know it? No. It could come out for both, it could come out for the Wii. Till the time comes we won't know. I would get the Wii version if I had a Wii, just for the extra's. So releasing it on both consoles wouldn't be a bad move, just wouldn't force so many Wii sales. The game will sell the system, and If I had to make the choice i'd go for the option with the most money making involved. You would too.

8. Fighters: PS2, RPG's: PS2, Shmups: xbox. That's how it's been this Gen.

9. Because the world is full of GTA's and Maddens.

10. Contracts and companies work like that. Look at the metal gear series. So exclusive yet always jumps from one system to another.

11. When you're short on system selling, it's a good idea to try to make money off the games. I also don't see a huge difference in price as far as systems and games go. I also bet the Wii will have the cheapest priced games this upcomming gen.

12. That 3D mario came and went. It's called Mario 64. Also, Mario 3 was something special, things like that can't be duplicated.

13. The point is that if they released mario kart's and smash bro's like they do mario party's, the games wouldn't be as good or special when they do come out. Innovation dies when you overdo it. Yay! Mario kart 14!

14. Why, I don't know. Does it suck? Yes. Nintendo needs to get on the ball with starfox and make it themselfs.

15. It's coming, and better than the other consoles will have. The DS has amazing online support with a very easy interface. Expect the Wii to be the same.

16. The support was crappy for that, what can you do.

17. Mario baseball was the shit. Stop whining so much.

18. Madden also sells because it's madden. Think about that.

19. Replayability doesn't really exist anymore sadly.

20. Why kill something that's making you money? Would you stop doing something that's making you money? No.

21. Or maybe the wouldn't have been perfect? I can't see myself playing KH on the cube, it's just weird.

22. If you came out with a system, then thought of a way to improve it, you would redesign it in a heartbeat. Something better is always a good thing, just because the redesign thing's till perfection isn't a flaw.

There done. Alot of your nitpicks were just that, personal nitpicks with nintendo. I don't think you LOVE NINTENDO because alot of points were silly and pointless.
 
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