Really, what has Nintendo done right? List reworked.

[quote name='TimPV3']If you're not standing what's the point? It can't be fun sitting on the couch with your hand sitting on an armrest. Non-launch PS3 and 360 titles have nothing to do with this, this thread turned into a Nintendo vs. the World thread, and it's not fair to compare the current and launch games of 360/PS3 games to Wii titles we won't see for a while.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'm one of the people who never understood this whole "your arm will get tired thing" - this isn't just for you. Imagine you're holding a 360 controller. Now, cut it in half. Move your hands apart as far as you'd like. Seems like we should be able to sit the same way we have for years.
 
I really don't know where I was with that math, I had to have erased something and kept the total. Sorry about that. And you do make a good point, with all the inclusions, but the simple fact is that Sony CANNOT win. They're assuming they're going to be more popular than they were for double the price, and they're going to lose. On the home front, though, sure, you're getting a lot of bang for your buck, and for many it will be worth it. However, your other argument simply counts out ingenuity for the Wii, based on personal concerns, not known facts.
 
[quote name='varsitygamer']get tired of standing and moving your arm?

man, you guys must be fatties.[/QUOTE]

Hey.

We can't all be on the varsity team and get to wear matching jackets. With stupid differntly colored sleeves and collars that ride up on your neck, but just below your shaved haircut, which is totally shaved from after winning the district championships against your cross town rivals, The Tigers....
 
[quote name='Strell']Hey.

We can't all be on the varsity team and get to wear matching jackets. With stupid differntly colored sleeves and collars that ride up on your neck, but just below your shaved haircut, which is totally shaved from after winning the district championships against your cross town rivals, The Tigers....[/QUOTE]

...


it's like you've known me for years...
 
[quote name='varsitygamer']...


it's like you've known me for years...[/QUOTE]

Well, you did stuff me in your locker a few times, but I totally got back at you on alt.nerd.obsessive, where I wrote all kinds of hilarious things at your expense! The other people at the forum like, totally thought I was awesome.
 
The wiimote won't be any more tiring to use than a mouse is. Games like Wii sports may be more strenuous, but then they're probably only designed for short and fun multiplayer sessions. And if you can't stand the stress of standing up and swiging your arms, videogames might need to move down on the priority list in life for you.

I guess there are still people who complain about having to move the stylus and that being tiring with the DS.. whatever. All the arguements against the Wii are subjective bullshit that anti-nintendites feel they have to bring up to make the company look bad.
The arguments against sony are facts. $600 is a lot of money. The system uses the same damn controller it's used for nearly 10 years. Sony's got a proven track record of sketchy launch hardware. Blu-Ray is an uncertain format with more uncertainty brought on by the failure of UMDs. Developers have said the PS3 will be an even more difficult/expensive system to develop for than ever before. The PSP is expensive it's library consists of load time laden dumbed down PS2 ports. All facts.

Lets see some arguements against nintendo that aren't based on personal game preferences or assumptions about limitations of the controller that NONE of us have even touched yet. Because after all, if you don't like nintendo's games, it's pretty much a no-brainer to not buy their system.

I hate Dynasty Warriors, and you couldn't pay me to play one. Same goes for Need for Speed, i've always hated that damn series, and i'll never buy one. But you don't see me on dynasty warriors or need for speed boards posting "really, what has Koei/EA done right?" guess why that is? because i'm not an attention whore douchebag like all the anti-nintendo posters out there are. You're not going to change our opinion about loving nintendo and their games, so find something better to do with your fucking time. Because we've had enough of you wasting ours. I'm sick of this shit.
 
Dual screen is a Gimmick... and the DS doesnt have enough titles that fully support the touch screen.
Click to expand...

It might be a gimmick, but it's a fucking rad gimmick, it's fun and it works.

Super Mario Bros. 3 is one of the top selling games of all time... why not release a 3d Mario with the same ideas that made that one so inventive?
Click to expand...

New Super Mario Brothers. You re-touched your list three days ago and you didn't even catch that one?

Dr Mario sold 4.85 million copies, Kid Icarus sold 1.76 Million copies, Punch Out sold 3 Million copies, Luigi's Mansion sold 3.27 million copies.... sequel? Anyone? What about Animal Crossing? Couldn't they at least put that online, or released extended content? I mean, only one Smash Brothers, Mario Kart & Mario platformer per console? Whats the point?
Click to expand...

Animal Crossing Wide World. God damn, you are out of touch.

Nintendo games lack replayability now. Even flagship titles dont have hours of finding items in them anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm going back through NSMB. Awesome game.

BTW, not a fanboy, own all the current/last gen hardware and plenty of games.
 
[quote name='jer7583'] The system uses the same damn controller it's used for nearly 10 years. [/QUOTE]

Tsk Tsk....actually its worse no rumble and the tilt sensitivity is nothing more than a really piss poor attempt to seem state of the art.
 
[quote name='jer7583']I guess there are still people who complain about having to move the stylus and that being tiring with the DS.. whatever. All the arguements against the Wii are subjective bullshit that anti-nintendites feel they have to bring up to make the company look bad. [/quote] [quote name='jer7583'] [...] But you don't see me on dynasty warriors or need for speed boards posting "really, what has Koei/EA done right?" guess why that is? because i'm not an attention whore douchebag like all the anti-nintendo posters out there are. You're not going to change our opinion about loving nintendo and their games, so find something better to do with your fucking time. Because we've had enough of you wasting ours. I'm sick of this shit.[/quote]

People who complain about the stylus know not what they bequest upon their friends and children. Nintendo DS is a system of perfect equilibrium concerning everything, which includes the number of worthy titles for it. It is a joy to program for, it features a kick-ass 2D engine, and from what I hear, the actual development kit (not the reverse-engineering one you can get online) rocks ass. (If you need a list of great games for Nintendo DS, someone else here can hand your ass to you better than I can, because I still have two paychecks worth of paying off my credit cards.)

Anti-Nintendo person is hardly a person at all, although we've had a few people claim to have "fallen from grace." I do not know how that works, but if you've grown up playing Kid Icarus and A Boy And His Blob, and then you see Grand Theft Auto : San Andreas and go "fuck yes, Nintendo SUX LOL," there is something inherently wrong with that picture. I'll also say that if you grew up with Zelda, and you were "impressed beyond belief" with something as predictable as The Shadow of the Colossus, I feel nothing but contempt for you.



[quote name='jer7583'] The arguments against sony are facts. $600 is a lot of money. The system uses the same damn controller it's used for nearly 10 years. Sony's got a proven track record of sketchy launch hardware. Blu-Ray is an uncertain format with more uncertainty brought on by the failure of UMDs. Developers have said the PS3 will be an even more difficult/expensive system to develop for than ever before. The PSP is expensive it's library consists of load time laden dumbed down PS2 ports. All facts.[/quote]
Despite the fact that I agree with everything you wrote, the PSP statement can still be considered an 'opinion.' Don't get me wrong, you'll get an "amen, brother" from me anytime you say shit like that... but facts are facts.

Speaking of which, there is a list of "facts" much more extensive than yours of Sony's CORRECT decisions both in the marketplace and in the industry. I'd really write out what they are, but I can't be bothered - can't physically, because I possess ElektroPlankton, and the mellow subtleness of this rhythm is rather active in being the one and only catalyst of magic that is to change my boring office into a fun room made of succulent female breasts. AND/OR PLANKTON!


[quote name='jer7583'] Lets see some arguements against nintendo that aren't based on personal game preferences or assumptions about limitations of the controller that NONE of us have even touched yet. Because after all, if you don't like nintendo's games, it's pretty much a no-brainer to not buy their system. [/quote]
Why do you care to hear arguments against Nintendo? There can be a rather tiring list of Nintendo's mistakes, both commercially, and in their software development. Yet the reason why I like Nintendo more than I'll ever attempt to liking Xbox / PlayStation franchise stems from the fact that as a company that delivers games, they are consistent. That isn't enough to love something for, but being that Nintendo has yet to succumb to the term "predictable," I think that as long as I stick with their system (and just as with GameCube, their system alone), I do not see myself losing out.


Just recently, I tried talking to a couple of friends of mine about Nintendo. We actually tried to come up with such list, but we ended up remembering the underdogs of every console instead... When it comes to this thread vs. Nintendo, the only metaphor I could fathom is bringing a gun to an arm wrestling match. To accuse Nintendo's GameBoy of being "bad" because "you couldn't see the screen" is pomposity held paramount beyond standards that someone who combined MARIO and COLBERT for his nickname would care to approach. There is a part of me that wishes to pull a Lewis Black and yell "THEY RELEASED IT IN 1989 YOU fuckING ASSHOLE!!!" but mmm... Plankton!


I found a solution for this nonsense. So, next time some gentleman/lady speaks out of their anus about how much Nintendo sucks, do the following (commands are in bold):
  • pick up ElektroPlankton Cartridge
  • use Cartridge on Nintendo DS
  • use Nintendo DS [this will turn it on]
  • give Nintendo DS to Smug Bastard
  • pick up Pineapple
  • use Pineapple on Smug Bastard Entranced
  • in the following "dialog" of how you wish to use the pineapple, choose "Like a Knight would use his Mace"
  • after a funny cutscene, pick up Nintendo DS
 
[quote name='MarioColbert']
I found a solution for this nonsense. So, next time some gentleman/lady speaks out of their anus about how much Nintendo sucks, do the following (commands are in bold):
  • pick up ElektroPlankton Cartridge
  • use Cartridge on Nintendo DS
  • use Nintendo DS [this will turn it on]
  • give Nintendo DS to Smug Bastard
  • pick up Pineapple
  • use Pineapple on Smug Bastard Entranced
  • in the following "dialog" of how you wish to use the pineapple, choose "Like a Knight would use his Mace"
  • after a funny cutscene, pick up Nintendo DS
[/QUOTE]

Also,
  • Use gopher repellent on gopher.
  • Then, use it on another gopher.
  • Then, use it on gopher horde.
  • Then, use it on funny little man.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Awesome, name them. And name ones that werent on any other systems or remakes.[/QUOTE]

Animal Crossing
Zelda: WW
Metroid Prime
Metriod Prime 2
Super Mario Sunshine
Tales of Symphonia
Mario Kart: DD

Only games I liked fer PS2:

Shadow of Col.

Metal Gear 2 and 3

Only games I like for Xbox:

Halo
Ninja Gaiden
 
Colbert, you rock. I know the psp statement was opinion, not fact, but I just hate that little shitty portable so much, and the rapstar wannabes to bling bling it off their neck more often than use it. Yes, i've seen this happen numerous times around here, and yes, i laugh hysterically whenever i see it.
 
OP, I read your title and was expecting a list of what "Nintendo has done right" not a list of where nintendo went wrong. Kind of misleading.

Anyhow, a pretty interesting thread read.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']
I just dont get the whole Nintendo bandwagon, just 2 years ago everyone hated Nintendo, then they remake the GBA again, talk about the Wii and release the first decent system in years (DS) and now everyone is in love with them again... I just dont follow the bandwagon, and I think its idiotic to get screwed by Nintendo again and again. So, tell me... why is NINTENDO so awesome? Because 2 years ago, they were going the way of ATARI. Is it just cool to like them cause they're the underdog? Because newsflash, they're NOT the underdog, they're freakin NINTENDO.[/quote]

That problem isn't Nintendo's fault. That problem is caused by idiots who don't like Nintendo just because they don't spit out new games or hardware as fast as Sony does. (Even though most games and hardware from other companies are rushed and they end up being shit.) Nintendo takes it's time and makes something good.
 
[quote name='MarioColbert']People who complain about the stylus know not what they bequest upon their friends and children. Nintendo DS is a system of perfect equilibrium concerning everything, which includes the number of worthy titles for it. It is a joy to program for, it features a kick-ass 2D engine, and from what I hear, the actual development kit (not the reverse-engineering one you can get online) rocks ass. (If you need a list of great games for Nintendo DS, someone else here can hand your ass to you better than I can, because I still have two paychecks worth of paying off my credit card.)[/quote]
"Nintendo DS is a system of perfect equilibrium concerning everything" - You should go into advertising... I should stop reading right there, but I'll proceed and assume you have stock in the company.

First off, the stylus is already proving to have less usefulness than the D-pad and buttons. Controlling Mario around in Mario DS is chore, and proves that it’s not really ready for 3D 3rd person control. Now first person works pretty well, but its a freaking keyboard and mouse setup... not innovative. I can drive a car with a joystick, but in the end I'm still driving a car.

So in the future, I hope to see Nintendo deliver on more innovative game design revolving around the stylus. I enjoyed the Kirby Game, and Trauma Center... but most of the games I've played really would of been decent without a second screen and without stylus control as well. Advanced Wars DS, Castlevania, New Super Mario Bros.... these games would of stood out regardless, and the extra display and input just felt tacked on. That’s the difference between a Gimmick and Innovation. Innovation revolutionizes, a Gimmick is tacked on fluff to entice the buyer. We'll see in a year, if the added pieces are Innovative depending on the games. Here's hoping for the best.

Personally, I believe the DS is still the better handheld, but I'm not blinded by Nintendo fanboyism... a Gimmick is a gimmick. It's fun, but I really could of lived without it.

[quote name='MarioColbert'] Anti-Nintendo person is hardly a person at all; although we've had a few people claim to have "fallen from grace." I do not know how that works, but if you've grown up playing Kid Icarus and A Boy And His Blob, and then you see Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and go "shaq-fu yes, Nintendo SUX LOL," there is something inherently wrong with that picture. I'll also say that if you grew up with Zelda, and you were "impressed beyond belief" with something as predictable as The Shadow of the Colossus, I feel nothing but contempt for you. [/quote]
Quick note: Could all the Nintendo Fanboys stop doing "leet speak" in their posts? I know you think you're clever in making people who dont think like you look stupid, but the only people I've seen talk like that are Nintendo Fanboys, and Nintendo Fanboys making fun of other Fanboys. OK? Thanks.

Now, back to business.

"Anti-Nintendo person is hardly a person at all" - Once again, mar-ket-ing. Go for it, its yours for the taking.

Here's the issue with Nintendo... it doesn’t evolve... and no, I'm not talking about getting more violent... I dont care about blood, and GTA is shit... I mean Nintendo doesn’t try to immerse the player. Let me explain myself.

Video game companies are constantly trying to "immerse" the player. IE: Nintendo, creating the Wii in an attempt to make the player more immersed in the world of the game. Ok, sounds good... but therein lays the problem. Immersion is a mental thing, not a physical thing. We learned this lesson with Virtual Reality.

Video Games do not make you cry, and usually... the people who do cry, it’s usually at an old RPG game. I'll tell you why in a second.

Why do movies make you cry? It almost doesn’t make since right? Movies make you cry, and you do nothing... you're not even controlling the main characters... why do you cry?

Because you're immersed.
Because Immersion is Mental. NOT PHYSICAL.

Now, this brings me to my real point about evolution. Nintendo doesn’t evolve their characters... Mario is still Jumpman from 1978; Samus is still a faceless, emotionless, sexless character in a suit. Link; who has the most emotion out of the "Triforce" (Nintendo's top 3 characters)... he's still pointless. He's a kid, who even though his love is stolen, he stays kind hearted and smashes through levels as he becomes more and more powerful with multiple weapons and assortments that make him practically and unstoppable juggernaut.

But wait, Link...he's a kid. There's no way he should be able to master all these weapons in 40-50 hours game play. He cuts down creature after creature, and even after getting the master sword, he's as strong as he's always been. Kill a creature, get a rupee... repeat. Find some random kindhearted characters... meet silly townsfolk, talk to a retard in a peter-pan costume.... WHAT THE HELL?

It's Link, the way he's always been, and the way he'll always be. Same story, same premise... and the character, though iconic, he's iconic because gamers are in love with gaming history. But if Link were designed for a movie, he would be a half-rate character.

The reason I was playing Colossus, and saying that this should be Zelda isn’t because it’s a better game. Or that I feel that Zelda should change drastically into a completely different game... its that I'm not attached to Link. I was attached to the main character in Colossus. I was immersed.... without fancy gadgets and bullshit marketing tactics... I felt the main character's plight. I was rooting for him all the way, all while I was controlling him. And I thought, God, why isn’t a Zelda game this good?

Zelda games are great, dont get me wrong... but though fun, I've never rooted for Link to find the Princess... it was just fun. Link never felt real to me. Every attack was the same, he never faulted, Link was a machine... he could do a spin-slash, over and over again. No change, no deviation. He would jump off everything the same, and reticules would lock for ease of attack.

Here's the problem. Zelda evolved for 3D... but that was 10 years ago. When Wind Waker was released, it was still Zelda 64, with Cel Shading. Link was still a robot, with the same damn story over and over again. But now it looks like it’s a 3D cartoon. Awesome.

Have you ever seen the movie "Legend"? They should call Ripley Scott to direct the next Zelda game. They make enough money on the franchise to do it. Maybe then I would give a shit again about Link's plight.

We expect more from movies... but with games, most people still have their expectations 15 years behind. "Is it fun?", isn’t the only question on my mind when I pick up a game. And when I pick up a Nintendo game, I know that, that question will be answered with a "Hell yes it's fun!” But then I realize the stark truth...

"Do the characters feel real?" NO.
"Will I care to finish this game?" NO.
"I know its fun, but is the fun repetitive?" YES.
"Why do I want to play the same game over and over again? This was fun when it was the 2D to 3D transition... but it’s lacking substance, is this even really fun anymore now?" I DONT KNOW ANYMORE. I JUST LIKE IT BECAUSE I'M NOSTALGIC.

In the old days, you didn’t need a story. You just needed fun. Now, I get bored to death of robotic characters in low-grade B movies.

[quote name='MarioColbert']....because I possess ElektroPlankton, and the mellow subtleness of this rhythm is rather active in being the one and only catalyst of magic that is to change my boring office into a fun room made of succulent female breasts. AND/OR PLANKTON!

I found a solution for this nonsense. So, next time some gentleman/lady speaks out of their anus about how much Nintendo sucks, do the following (commands are in bold):
  • pick up ElektroPlankton Cartridge
  • use Cartridge on Nintendo DS
  • use Nintendo DS [this will turn it on]
  • give Nintendo DS to Smug Bastard
  • pick up Pineapple
  • use Pineapple on Smug Bastard Entranced
  • in the following "dialog" of how you wish to use the pineapple, choose "Like a Knight would use his Mace"
  • after a funny cutscene, pick up Nintendo DS
[/quote]Sounds Great, I LOVE Electroplankton... as a musician I freaked over this and bought it from Japan first day. I love it...except for one small problem.

Electroplankton isn’t a game. It's a toy.

This is as effective as saying that Warner Bros. is the best Movie studio and then proving that by playing a music CD produced by Warner Bros. Nintendo is a toy company, as well as a gaming company. But dont confuse the two, and say Nintendo makes great games because they made Electroplankton.

Even on that level, Electroplankton is repetitive and boring. You can breeze through all of the levels (instruments) in about 20 mins... its a handy toy to blow off some steam with... but its as fun as sketching something on a post-it note. It's mindless....

[quote name='MarioColbert']To accuse Nintendo's GameBoy of being "bad" because "you couldn't see the screen" is pomposity held paramount beyond standards that someone who combined MARIO and COLBERT for his nickname would care to approach. There is a part of me that wishes to pull a Lewis Black and yell "THEY RELEASED IT IN 1989 YOU fuckING ASSHOLE!!!" [/quote]
I was talking about the 1st Gameboy Advance. I could see the Gameboy just fine.

[quote name='MarioColbert']Yet the reason why I like Nintendo more than I'll ever attempt to liking Xbox / PlayStation franchise stems from the fact that as a company that delivers games, they are consistent. That isn't enough to love something for, but being that Nintendo has yet to succumb to the term "predictable," I think that as long as I stick with their system (and just as with GameCube, their system alone), I do not see myself losing out.[/quote]
First off, I'm confused... are they consistent? Or are they not predictable? Because those two things are opposites.

And second, "Consistent" isn’t good.

If I make a "Shit Sandwich" today, someone may like it... and hey that person may be a food critic... Now everyone wants a "Shit Sandwich" because it’s the new thing.

But when everyone realizes that it’s a freaking "Shit Sandwich". Then the fad dies, and as a smart business owner.. I should move on.

Closing Argument:

You see, Mario was great one day. But Mario never stopped being 2 Dimensional. Because of that, his followers are dwindling... and nostalgia is keeping the poor plumber alive because the "Bit Gen" is in. But when that dies... Nintendo better have something better up their sleeve than a hardware gimmick to revitalize their franchises.

Immersion is mental. It doesn’t matter if it’s a real person in a movie, or an animated Disney movie. People become immersed, and in turn become emotionally involved in joy, sadness, anger or fear. The mind can play tricks on you, and game companies can exploit this tricks to make you a little more immersed… but the rest comes from just being a damn good game. Something that make you relate to the protagonist, and something that connects you to the moving object on the screen.

“Connection is Immersion.“

I don’t want to watch Mario, Samus or Link anymore… I want to be Mario, Samus or Link. I want to feel what they’re going through and understand why I need to retrieve more items to be able to get past something.

-I don’t want a “Voice of God” to tell me I can’t pick up that rock because its too heavy, I want it to BE too heavy.
-I don’t want “Fate” to teleport me from inside the Mushroom Kingdom to 100 feet Underwater anymore, I want to run out of the castle and jump in the river and swim into the lake to find the next castle to save MY princess.
-I don’t want my only reason to live, is to exterminate a colony of creatures on a planet because they stole my ability to scrunch into a ball and roll around. I want to experience the feeling of loss and the rage of revenge.

A Gimmicky controller isn’t going to fix this. New, better graphics doesn’t fix this. Better sound doesn’t fix this.

Fix the games, Nintendo.
 
God, Juka.

All of your arguments are "my opinion != what Nintendo does, and therefore it sucks."

The fact that you don't realize this is insane.

To top it off, you throw around a lot of nonsense arguments about how everything Nintendo does is a gimmick, how they don't evolve at all, etc etc etc.

I just can't do this anymore. I can't deal with the bullshit N gets that conveniently is never leveled at everyone else.

This is the company that rebuilt an industry, ushered in all sorts of gameplay foundations, revolutionized everything a few times, and has been mercilessly copied over and over and over. This is the company that is the most profitable, that attempts to appeal to everyone, and that is never satisfied with shoveling down system version 2.0. This is the company that does X, everyone tells them it's bullshit and laughs at them, and then 3-4 years later when everyone else does it, it's heralded as amazingly innovative. Not only that, but by the time they are doing X, they are doing it a third as well as Nintendo did it the first time.

And throughout ALL of that, Nintendo just keeps its trap fucking shut and doesn't complain. They don't whine about how profits are up or down 4%, they don't shovel down 4-5 franchise sequels a year + 4-5 other series that are either spinoffs or total ripoffs, they don't bitch about how we need more/less of this or that, and they don't dick around with idiotic attempts to promise the fucking moon.

I really can't argue on their behalf anymore. They've lost. They've lost to all the people who made up their minds a few years ago and just absolutely refuse to come out of the shells they've constructed.

So screw it. I'm not going to refute your post. I just don't have the fucking energy.

To everyone fitting into this group, don't get a Wii. I don't want to put up with your asinine whiny bullshit online, I don't to hear you bitch about how Mario's hat is still red, I don't want to listen to a juvenile rant about how Mario needs a gun, about how Samus isn't parading around with big breasts, about how Luigi needs to punch Mario in the face, about how the Princess needs to stop fucking getting kidnapped, about how Toad is probably gay, about how a sequel to a game that came out 10+ years ago is "milking the franchise," about how we need 14 Smash Bros a year BUT that such is milking, etc etc etc etc etc etc fucking etc.

Don't do it. The last thing I need is some fucking pansy telling me he can't handle the system because his arms will get too tired. Or any other fucking weak stupid bottom-of-the-barrel bullshit argument that you pull out of your ass because I guess that sensation is completely pleasureable to you.

fucking Nintendo could do the same thing it has done the last 10 years - which is LOSE MARKET SHARE - beacuse they can't compete with their image, with their competitor's third party support, and with their competitors monetary resources.

OR THEY COULD fuckING TRY SOEMTHING NEW.

Jesus. And STILL people would bitch that they aren't doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY THINK NINTENDO NEEDS TO DO. And you know what? This is why Nintendo is giving you all the big middle finger by doing shit the way they want - with a new interface and a goofy name. Cuz they fucking are trying, and if they go out, their death is peppered with a lot of goddamn tenacity and the biggest fucking balls you've ever seen.

And yet people STILL bitch.

Fine. Then don't get it.

Just stfu and don't get it.

Why? Because I'm damn well sure there's other people who will happily give it a shot, gamer and nongamer alike, and I'd much rather think I'm enjoying something with people who might be willing to leave their fucking comfort sphere and assgroove-laden couch and computer chair to just stfu and play games with.

That's the whole fucking point.

So stfu.

fuck.
 
H...h... holy shit, dude.

That's pretty much exactly how I feel right now. I no longer have any interest in trying to refute peoples' baseless or outright stupid claims against Nintendo... there's really no end to it.
 
You make a decent point, Mooky, about characters in games being 1-dimensional. But do you know what? I don't mind if they are one dimensional. I don't mind if Link is a Jedi master the first time he picks up a dagger, because as long as I experience quality GAMEPLAY while playing as a 1-dimensional 11-year-old with a katana, I'll be satisfied.

Your main argument about the feeling of "Immersion" is something akin to, "Oh, that's the same animation they used last time. And there it is again. This game sucks - It's not real enough."

You want real, don't play videogames. If you play videogames, you might just get such unholy sins against mankind as "Artistic interpretation" or "Stylized combat."

You didn't complain when you saw all those bitchin' kung fu and sci-fi movies, did you? Cause that's what they have; stylization. As a side note, most people were BLOWN AWAY by The Matrix in 1999, but few know that the vast majority of the story elements were stolen from a sci-fi novel Neuromancer, written in the early 80s, and what was left was "Unbelievable philosophy, like a new-age Bible." People couldn't see the plaijurism and the 1-dimensionalism. They only saw the amazing flips and stoppage of time. This is an excellent analogy, because it shows that the vast majority of people don't care about Shakespearian characters and drama, as long as they're having fun.

And Nintendo provides fun, in excess.
 
[quote name='Strell']God, Juka.

All of your arguments are "my opinion != what Nintendo does, and therefore it sucks."

The fact that you don't realize this is insane.

To top it off, you throw around a lot of nonsense arguments about how everything Nintendo does is a gimmick, how they don't evolve at all, etc etc etc.

I just can't do this anymore. I can't deal with the bullshit N gets that conveniently is never leveled at everyone else.

This is the company that rebuilt an industry, ushered in all sorts of gameplay foundations, revolutionized everything a few times, and has been mercilessly copied over and over and over. This is the company that is the most profitable, that attempts to appeal to everyone, and that is never satisfied with shoveling down system version 2.0. This is the company that doesn't X, everyone tells them it's bullshit and laughs at them, and then 3-4 years later when everyone else does it, it's heralded as amazingly innovative. Not only that, but by the time they are doing X, they are doing it a third as well as Nintendo did it the first time.

And throughout ALL of that, Nintendo just keeps its trap fucking shut and doesn't complain. They don't whine about how profits are up or down 4%, they don't shovel down 4-5 franchise sequels a year + 4-5 other series that are either spinoffs or total ripoffs, they don't bitch about how we need more/less of this or that, and they don't dick around with idiotic attempts to promise the fucking moon.

I really can't argue on their behalf anymore. They've lost. They've lost to all the people who made up their minds a few years ago and just absolutely refuse to come out of the shells they've constructed.

So screw it. I'm not going to refute your post. I just don't have the fucking energy.

To everyone fitting into this group, don't get a Wii. I don't want to put up with your asinine whiny bullshit online, I don't to hear you bitch about how Mario's hat is still red, I don't want to listen to a juvenile rant about how Mario needs a gun, about how Samus isn't parading around with big breasts, about how Luigi needs to punch Mario in the face, about how the Princess needs to stop fucking getting kidnapped, about how Toad is probably gay, about how a sequel to a game that came out 10+ years ago is "milking the franchise," about how we need 14 Smash Bros a year BUT that such is milking, etc etc etc etc etc etc fucking etc.

Don't do it. The last thing I need is some fucking pansy telling me he can't handle the system because his arms will get too tired.

Fine. Then don't get it.

Just stfu and don't get it.

Why? Because I'm damn well sure there's other people who will happily give it a shot, gamer and nongamer alike, and I'd much rather think I'm enjoying something with people who might be willing to leave their fucking comfort sphere and assgroove-laden couch and computer chair to just stfu and play games with.

That's the whole fucking point.

So stfu.

fuck.[/quote]

Wow, I dont remember once talking about changing the characters, just exploring them. If Batman Begins came out 2 years ago, and Batman was still being played by Adam West you'd be like WTF too.

Batman is still Batman, awesome and as Iconic as ever... but changed and evolved.

Also, Nintendo DID revolutionize the industry, which is why I'm rooting for them to do it again. I just believe that having a light gun with controls on top isnt the answer... its in the games.

You're blowing up for no reason, and assuming many things I've never said. You've defended Nintendo, but never gave reason. You've attacked me, (you know I say some crazy shit) but I've kept my cool, to have a level headed conversation about Nintendo.

I want Nintendo to grow... if you feel that having a light gun with controls on top is innovative and immersive... tell me why. Dont act like an idiot attacking me and denouncing everyone because they dont share you're point of view.

I wanted a sequel to their highest selling game in 5 years. Nothing more.

Out of the 3 major Nintendo fanatics who have spoke on Nintendo's behalf... not a one of them had a reason or answer for anything... they've all just personally attacked me and now you've basically just slammed everyone who doesnt think like you.

I wanted to have a serious debate, and to be honest Strell, I thought you would win everyone over. Instead you've exploded this into a flame war, but a flame war you fight alone in.

I'm not following you in, and now, back to the debate.

This Generation of gaming isnt going to rely on graphics, which Nintendo made a safe bet in that corner. It'll rely on immersion... another safe bet. But going to see a movie in 3D isnt more immersing, it's distracting... and adding two controllers to play a game isnt immersing either. If you add to one side, you take some off the other side.

Its the media law of balance. It works for all media.

If you were to take all of otis redding's music and remaster it completely taking out all pops and crackles... you lose something in the ambiance.

When you take a stage musical and make it into a movie, you lose some of the "pop" or "flare".

If you were to take out the artist who pencils "The Walking Dead" and replace it with Michael Turner (Clean "pointy" artist of Fathom) you lose the grit... Same reason why, Jim Lee and Frank Miller's new Batman book sucks... they're both so good at what they do.. but together the balance is screwed.

When you add a stylus, and are missing buttons to Mario 64, you lose full range of motion and camera movement.

---------------------------

Can Nintendo take this gamble and win? Tell me why. Dont flame or attack me, because I wont bite back. Be an adult.
 
[quote name='Strell']about how Luigi needs to punch Mario in the face[/quote]Come on now, you know he deserves it. You're only defending Mario's honor because of your avatar! :booty:
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']

Also, Nintendo DID revolutionize the industry, which is why I'm rooting for them to do it again. I just believe that having a light gun with controls on top isnt the answer... its in the games.[/QUOTE]

This is why I won't respond further.

fuck it.
 
Who's The Twitch Now?;2048042 said:
You make a decent point, Mooky, about characters in games being 1-dimensional. But do you know what? I don't mind if they are one dimensional. I don't mind if Link is a Jedi master the first time he picks up a dagger, because as long as I experience quality GAMEPLAY while playing as a 1-dimensional 11-year-old with a katana, I'll be satisfied.

Your main argument about the feeling of "Immersion" is something akin to, "Oh, that's the same animation they used last time. And there it is again. This game sucks - It's not real enough."

You want real, don't play videogames. If you play videogames, you might just get such unholy sins against mankind as "Artistic interpretation" or "Stylized combat."

You didn't complain when you saw all those bitchin' kung fu and sci-fi movies, did you? Cause that's what they have; stylization. As a side note, most people were BLOWN AWAY by The Matrix in 1999, but few know that the vast majority of the story elements were stolen from a sci-fi novel Neuromancer, written in the early 80s, and what was left was "Unbelievable philosophy, like a new-age Bible." People couldn't see the plaijurism and the 1-dimensionalism. They only saw the amazing flips and stoppage of time. This is an excellent analogy, because it shows that the vast majority of people don't care about Shakespearian characters and drama, as long as they're having fun.

And Nintendo provides fun, in excess.
Click to expand...

I'm not looking for realism, I'm looking for a wider artistic palette.

The Matrix was cool at first glance for Stylized Combat... thats what brought you in... you stayed for the story. Think I'm wrong? Then tell me why the next two in the series weren't as good? They had A LOT more action in them. What happened?

Artistic expression is based in reality, go to far to one side of the spectrum and you start to lose people... dont go far enough... and the fantasy is gone.

Whats the point of having a cool controller when you're character still runs face first into wall and manically flips when you jump more than once? These were great ideas in 96, because 3D was new and cool. Now its retarded. And the fact that the "artists" didnt take the time to make Mario brace himself from running straight into a wall or grab onto a ledge from almost falling, instead of everyjump being prefect and every grab perfect is TOO stylized and lacks reality. Those "artists" arent "artists" at all then are they? We have the technology... so why isnt Mario reacting realistically to his surrounding yet? Many games do this already.

I just want fluid animation. Overdoing everything is boring.

What to see an example of too much? Watch Mummy Returns. Watch how after an hour you dont even care about CG anymore. Thats how it feels to me when I play Nintendo games.

Nintendo is awesome with a good polish on their games, no doubt about that...

But its easier to polish a Voltswagon Bug, than a Lamborgini.
 
Mooky, if you need a real reason as to why the Wii is innovative, and no one's comments early on in this thread could help you to understand, then maybe you'll just never get it. I'm personally excited about the Wii because my mind is wandering and being overwhelmed with possibilities, and there's no telling what will be done and when. We have no way of knowing if it will get repetitive and more gimmicky, but when the possibilities just don't spark your mind, maybe the Wii isn't for you. Maybe it's for people who want to be amazed, and want to take the risk of buying a new product because of all the potential, and not because they have predetermined cold, hard facts about what they're going to be getting.
 
Who's The Twitch Now?;2048114 said:
Mooky, if you need a real reason as to why the Wii is innovative, and no one's comments early on in this thread could help you to understand, then maybe you'll just never get it. I'm personally excited about the Wii because my mind is wandering and being overwhelmed with possibilities, and there's no telling what will be done and when. We have no way of knowing if it will get repetitive and more gimmicky, but when the possibilities just don't spark your mind, maybe the Wii isn't for you. Maybe it's for people who want to be amazed, and want to take the risk of buying a new product because of all the potential, and not because they have predetermined cold, hard facts about what they're going to be getting.
Click to expand...

I'll be getting the Wii, avoiding the PS3 altogether. I feel that if Nintendo has a chance to turn it all around and end back up top.

But then I see E3, and I see the same damn games, played the same damn way... but instead of pressing a button to jump you lift the controller and I go... wait a second... Mario is still the same old Mario games, and Zelda is the Zelda game I've seen for the last 3 years...

I'm torn, I want to buy the system because I love nintendo and love the idea of virtual system and everything... but I cant help but get that sinking feeling that this is a marketing ploy and not really the ushering in of a new age.

We'll see, so far it looks decent... but I was expecting the worlds biggest gaming icons to evolve... but it just looks like the same old shit.

When I buy the Wii, if I'm wrong... I'll ressurect this thread and say so. I have no problem of doing so... I've stood corrected before and admitted it publically. But if I buy a $250 system, and then have to buy a seperate perifrial for every single game and I have to jump through hoops over something thats just a glorified gamecube, I'll be pissed.

I've had some conserns, but thanks for just attacking me or blowing me off. It's good to see that the Nintendo Bandwagon is strong as ever. Now just let me know why you're on it.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']
Also, Nintendo DID revolutionize the industry, which is why I'm rooting for them to do it again. I just believe that having a light gun with controls on top isnt the answer... its in the games.

[/QUOTE]

This simple little sentence basically moots your entire argument. You obviously don't understand fuck about the capabilities of the Wii. But you're right, it is in the games, and the Wii will be able to allow the games to explore new areas of gameplay that have never been experienced before. How many genres were created this generation compared to the last few? Not very many, I believe. And it'll only be fewer next-gen for the PS3/360. The Wii will allow new genres to be created. The developers just need to be clever. Sure, there will be a ton of gimmicky games, a thousand baseball/golf/tennis games...but it's not like we already have a ton of that shit already on the current systems. And look at this way, this might be the first time I actually buy a Baseball game since the NES. Mainly because they never carried the real feel of it, and it was always "Timing + Press Button", which I always thought was boring as hell. I'd take a "gimmicky" version over that any day. But again, this is only another side of Wii. Immersion is only one of the key factors.
 
Who's The Twitch Now?;2048042 said:
You make a decent point, Mooky, about characters in games being 1-dimensional. But do you know what? I don't mind if they are one dimensional. I don't mind if Link is a Jedi master the first time he picks up a dagger, because as long as I experience quality GAMEPLAY while playing as a 1-dimensional 11-year-old with a katana, I'll be satisfied.

Your main argument about the feeling of "Immersion" is something akin to, "Oh, that's the same animation they used last time. And there it is again. This game sucks - It's not real enough."

You want real, don't play videogames. If you play videogames, you might just get such unholy sins against mankind as "Artistic interpretation" or "Stylized combat."

You didn't complain when you saw all those bitchin' kung fu and sci-fi movies, did you? Cause that's what they have; stylization. As a side note, most people were BLOWN AWAY by The Matrix in 1999, but few know that the vast majority of the story elements were stolen from a sci-fi novel Neuromancer, written in the early 80s, and what was left was "Unbelievable philosophy, like a new-age Bible." People couldn't see the plaijurism and the 1-dimensionalism. They only saw the amazing flips and stoppage of time. This is an excellent analogy, because it shows that the vast majority of people don't care about Shakespearian characters and drama, as long as they're having fun.

And Nintendo provides fun, in excess.
Click to expand...

People didn't see that way because it isn't true. William Gibson coined the term cyberspace but invented nothing else in 'Neuromancer.' It wan't about new ideas, it was about writing style. Gibson had a more literary bent than most SF writiers, so was taken seriously by people who otherwise look askance at SF. Besides, Neal Stephenson's 'Snow Crash' was likely a greater influence. (Stephenson has a problem ending stories but he at least wraps up most of the loose ends, which is more than can be said for the Wachowskis.)

An episode of the shortlived series Harlan Ellison created in the early 70s, 'The Starlost,' had a plot device that was cyberspace in everything but name and also lent some inspiration to 'Tron.' That is only one of many examples. Much like the term 'virtual reality,' the concept was around for a very long time before someone coined a term and started treating as a serious subject. When Ray Bradbury in the 1950s wrote a story in which a children's playroom simulated the African savannah so realistically that they could have lions kill their parents and thus enjoy playtime forever, it was VR in everything but name.


THe problem with the following Matrix movies is not that they overemphsized action over story. It was just that the story was awful. The series suffered from one of the worst plagues on the Big Concept plot. There isn't always a satisfactory ending known to the author. The same thing happened to the anime series 'Big O.' It became a completely self-contradictory mess. The last minute of the last episode seemed to be the writer throwing up his hands and saying, "I give up. I'm just going to put everything back where I found it and pretend none of this ever happened."
 
Believe me, I know Neuromancer is not the only influence on the Matrix. There are countless sources, not all of which were used for the plot. A year before the Matrix was released, the far superior Dark City came out, and was all but overlooked. Not only was it almost the exact same concept, but many scenes were stolen directly and put in the Matrix, in some cases even using the same sets. But this is not what this thread is about.

Mooky, in my last post, I wasn't trying to flame you. I was merely trying to put a rational end to the discussion based on your earlier posts. The idea that you still think I'm attacking you, when you have shown nothing but contempt for me this whole time, even when I'm being just as calm and collected as you, is kind of disappointing. You have a lot of interesting points, but your unwillingness to listen to others and accept their input in more ways than "Wrong" or "Attacking," is truly what put a damper on this thread. I may have more to say later, but for now I'm going to let you make your own decision, as it's obvious you won't let anyone else influence it.
 
I agree with the argument that it's about the games. There's plenty of innovation out there. Virtual Boy anyone? I believe Atari was the first with analog sticks and look where that got them. It has to translate into games that are more fun that games on other systems and that's that.

As for why Nintendo doesn't just throw in the towel, etc. - I like anything that keeps Nintendo at odds with the competition. I like their unique perspective on gaming. I like that they want to go in other directions form the competition. I like Pikmin, etc. And the farther Nintendo stays from a "Unified" video game world the better. Something was clearly lost when the Dreamcast died. You can always say "well, they just focus on the games now" but I don't believe it's a one-to-one trade. I'd rather have a quilt than a melting pot in the world of video games.
 
Who's The Twitch Now?;2048243 said:
Believe me, I know Neuromancer is not the only influence on the Matrix. There are countless sources, not all of which were used for the plot. A year before the Matrix was released, the far superior Dark City came out, and was all but overlooked. Not only was it almost the exact same concept, but many scenes were stolen directly and put in the Matrix, in some cases even using the same sets. But this is not what this thread is about.

Mooky, in my last post, I wasn't trying to flame you. I was merely trying to put a rational end to the discussion based on your earlier posts. The idea that you still think I'm attacking you, when you have shown nothing but contempt for me this whole time, even when I'm being just as calm and collected as you, is kind of disappointing. You have a lot of interesting points, but your unwillingness to listen to others and accept their input in more ways than "Wrong" or "Attacking," is truly what put a damper on this thread. I may have more to say later, but for now I'm going to let you make your own decision, as it's obvious you won't let anyone else influence it.
Click to expand...

Not to mention they also directly took a couple scenes from the first Ghost in the Shell movie. They even admitted to it.
 
Mooky is just forever unable to understand. He seems like one of those spoiled playstation generation kids who want games to gravitate more towards being movie-like or that hollywood is the ultimate example for gaming to take on. Guess what. Videogames are different than movies/Television.

Videogames have the added benefit of being mentally and phsically immersive. The problem is that this concept is still in its infancy. NOBODY really understands how to create something that immerses you while still maintining interactivity well. Some games show hints of it and that's a good thing, but we've got a long way to go. But guess what, videogames have only been around for 30-40 years. And videogames that are able to portray believably detailed characters are even more recent.

Anyway, back to the concept of mental/physical immersion. The Wii may not work. It may be a complete failure and the concept might just not catch on. But i really don't understand how you can't applaud Nintendo for trying to merge the mental and physical immersion that videogames have, rather than just limiting them to being a hollywood copycat, and not their own form of entertainment. Nobody knows how or if videogames can set themselves apart from other forms of entertainment, but Wii is one way of exploring those possibilities, success or not. And without experimentation, we'd still be watching vaudville plays, and slapstick comedy movies made just to watch things move on a screen.

Shooting nintendo's efforts down by calling it "a lightgun with buttons" just shows how ignorant you are to the concept behind Wii. Microsoft and Sony aren't doing shit to change videogames or explore their possibilities. They're just serving up the same ol shit on a shinier plate.

That you are ignorant to that because you can't get over that mario still jumps on enemies heads and link still swings a sword is your own fault. You will never get it, until it's already passed you by. Maybe that's just how it is. Not everyone is fit to get on board with new innovations and changes in forms of media.

I personally think that the playstation MTV generation fucks who are stuck thinking Final Fantasy is the height of artistic expression in videogames are about to be left behind. Their time is over, they're no longer needed. They got videogames into the mainstream, now games can truely show the world what they have to offer.
 
[quote name='jer7583']Mooky is just forever unable to understand. He seems like one of those spoiled playstation generation kids who want games to gravitate more towards being movie-like or that hollywood is the ultimate example for gaming to take on. Guess what. Videogames are different than movies/Television.

Videogames have the added benefit of being mentally and phsically immersive. The problem is that this concept is still in its infancy. NOBODY really understands how to create something that immerses you while still maintining interactivity well. Some games show hints of it and that's a good thing, but we've got a long way to go. But guess what, videogames have only been around for 30-40 years. And videogames that are able to portray believably detailed characters are even more recent.

Anyway, back to the concept of mental/physical immersion. The Wii may not work. It may be a complete failure and the concept might just not catch on. But i really don't understand how you can't applaud Nintendo for trying to merge the mental and physical immersion that videogames have, rather than just limiting them to being a hollywood copycat, and not their own form of entertainment. Nobody knows how or if videogames can set themselves apart from other forms of entertainment, but Wii is one way of exploring those possibilities, success or not. And without experimentation, we'd still be watching vaudville plays, and slapstick comedy movies made just to watch things move on a screen.

Shooting nintendo's efforts down by calling it "a lightgun with buttons" just shows how ignorant you are to the concept behind Wii. Microsoft and Sony aren't doing shit to change videogames or explore their possibilities. They're just serving up the same ol shit on a shinier plate.

That you are ignorant to that because you can't get over that mario still jumps on enemies heads and link still swings a sword is your own fault. You will never get it, until it's already passed you by. Maybe that's just how it is. Not everyone is fit to get on board with new innovations and changes in forms of media.

I personally think that the playstation MTV generation fucks who are stuck thinking Final Fantasy is the height of artistic expression in videogames are about to be left behind. Their time is over, they're no longer needed. They got videogames into the mainstream, now games can truely show the world what they have to offer.[/quote]

I'm 25, my favorite types of games are 2D shmups and 2D fighters. I cut my teeth on a 2600. My first personal console was a Nintendo. I had a Saturn, and have always hated Playstation. My favorite game is Chrono Trigger. I own a Gamecube, DS, and Xbox 360. I used to draw Mario everywhere as a kid.

If I'm a kid, how old are you?

The movie industry has experimented, and 3D movies and smell-o-vision still hasnt become standard.

We'll see as it comes... thanks for adding yourself to the Nintendo Fanboys who personally attack me for not sharing your view list. Go nintendo.
 
You totally proved your hardcore street cred by prefering 2D games. You didn't, however answer my question about if you think hollywood/film should be videogames' role model or ideal. This, more than even your personal game preferences, will show how you and I (and many others) are fundamentally unable to agree. And there's not really anything wrong with that, except that it's my opinion that following hollywood will cause gaming to stay as the "little brother" to movies/books/etc. and ignored by the majority of (american) society.

I think 2D shmups are such an overplayed genre, by the way. Most people(not saying you) claim to love these games do it because they think it makes them look old school or different. I personally wouldn't waste any more of my money or time on 2D shmups.. i've played it a million times already.

Just think, in 20 years we'll have these FPS aplogists claiming how they're hardcore because their favorite genre is FPS when that trend has gone the way of 2D shmups.

2D fighters are another thing entirely. Still damn fun, but there hasn't been a worthwhile one since Street Fighter 3, imho. Even guilty gear has run it's course.
 
This entire thread has become pointless. Now it's just a huge back and forth arguement filled with posts that have become way to arduous to read and still care about by the time your done reading them.
 
[quote name='jer7583']....answer my question about if you think hollywood/film should be videogames' role model or ideal.[/quote]

I agree that Video games are NOT movies. Personally, I dont believe in long drawn out cut-scenes at all.. I feel that you can get across the same ideas without ever making the game give up control. Now a cutscene or two thats brief 1-2 mins here and there... I can understand... But no Metal Gear Solid 2's.

[quote name='jer7583']This, more than even your personal game preferences, will show how you and I (and many others) are fundamentally unable to agree. And there's not really anything wrong with that, except that it's my opinion that following hollywood will cause gaming to stay as the "little brother" to movies/books/etc. and ignored by the majority of (american) society.[/quote]

I believe that gaming is the evolution of popular media. Its the "Step up" from books. Yes, It's still in its infantcy... but my biggest problem in games is lack of realistic movement. Not if Link still swings a sword, 20 years later. I complete love Nintendo's idea of making the controller more accessible to the general public. I dont know if the "Wiimote" is really what I had in mind... but Nintendo's been lowering the button quotent since the N64.

I just believe that "immersion" in video games is in a realistic, believable world. Something Nintendo hasnt really focused on in a while. Trees swaying in the wind, getting your character's clothing dirty, NPC's that are more than just a palette swap. A fun, multi-directional story would be nice, something that didnt feel like it was on rails. I believe these can be fixed for all game companies, but Nintendo's game worlds just seem extra cold and robotic.

Games dont have to be movies, but the "game world" doesnt have to have the cold, uninviting feel of being on a movie set.

[quote name='jer7583'] I think 2D shmups are such an overplayed genre, by the way. Most people(not saying you) claim to love these games do it because they think it makes them look old school or different. I personally wouldn't waste any more of my money or time on 2D shmups.. i've played it a million times already.

2D fighters are another thing entirely. Still damn fun, but there hasn't been a worthwhile one since Street Fighter 3, imho. Even guilty gear has run it's course.[/quote]

Well, there are alot of very good 3D games as well. And I'm no FPS hater... (playing Prey now). But there was something definatly lost between dimentional upgrade. But that's just my opinions, and I'm just a child raised in the 2D age.

You're right about 2D Fighters though, I never was a fan of Guilty Gear, I felt that the characters were either sci-fi generic or annoying... and the game lacked the soul earlier Capcom fighters seemed to have. Street Fighter 3 was a really good fighter, but these days I'm just so damn sick of it... (Too many hours)

I think my big issue with the Big N isnt their games. I love many of thier games, I just dont feel that I get my $50 bucks worth. The Wii just feels like an even further path down that road. We'll be shelling out $50 for Wiimote Minigames or some "Toy" that uses the Wiimote's capabilities.
 
Looks like Friend-codes on the Wii. Awesome. Bout time for some disapointing news. Cant wait for the official word that Zelda is going to be Wii exclusive and it wont take personal smart media but a special Nintendo brand smart media that's twice the price for the same amount of storage.
 
I agree with some of your points mooky. I'm looking forward to the Wii but i'm not fully convinced its going to give me a gameplay experience i'm going to enjoy after the novelty of it wears off.

I love my DS, but the games that utilize the touch screen are the ones that i get bored with faster. Dont misinterpret what im saying, they're still good games but after awhile the gimmick of the touch screen isn't what keeps me in love with my DS.

I'll tell you what i hate, people on the Nintendo Wii bandwagon and their elitest attitude because they "get it." Just because the Wii appeals to you doesn't make you "smart." Its all so fucking pretentious, no one voicing their opinion in this thread has had a chance to even play the system yet.
 
Mookyjooky:

As glad as I am that you've read my post, you have obviously missed the sarcasm underlying the extreme statements. I thought that as a person who has been posting nothing but "anti Nintendo marketing," you'd enjoy a direct pro-marketing "rebuttal," but alas, I was wrong. You just called me Nintendo's marketing whore, made me smile, and that about wraps it up.

However, I don't understand your desire to have an "argument" about this: this is hardly much else than you providing a list of your pet peeves with Nintendo and the gaming industry in general. As such, they are great: they are bitter, extreme, personal, and delivered with cold nonchalance. (The only thing is: you may want to re-read your posts on top of using a spellchecker, at the very least when poking fun of other people's posts.)

Your stance on "character development" and "immersion" is laughable, because no, not every film out there is immersive. Film-like character development is not possible in video games, not that it hasn't been tried before. Interactive movie genre has been long defeated by piss poor sales (thank god), and I find it rather ironic that you've cited Shadow of the Colossus, a game with a cliche "damsel in distress" setup, and total lack of any character development to speak of, as your example of immersive experience. Shadow of the Colossus is a very beautiful arcade game, and I know I'm "the strange one" for being unimpressed with it. Every single one of my friends loves that game, and before you proceed to "prove" me wrong, consider that people that I love and share a lot of time with have failed to do so. I tried it, I said "meh," and I won't play it again.

I think what adds to my negative perception of your posts, is your arrogance. I grew up playing adventure games, with classics like Space Quest and Monkey Island (I hope you heard of those) being an important part of my childhood. I am willing to tell you that I would absolutely love to have Gilbert make Monkey Island: NEXT, and Crowe/Murphy team get together for Space Quest 7. Unfortunately, that will never happen. There have been multiple videogame companies that have delivered (in accordance to my taste and "fanboyism") perfect videogame entertainment for years, and they no longer exist.

You say that there isn't enough Mario, that Zelda is not growing up to be what you want, and that Wii Controller isn't the answer. I won't get into why you've got the question wrong, or care to explain that "immersion is purely mental" is plain wrong. At least you can still get Mario and Zelda, while disliking them. I'm not saying you should be grateful for bad games, or am I saing that you should feel "happier" that they are available for you, if you find them generic and uninspiring. All I'm saying is that at the very least, you can't be sad that they've been undone, despite having people that have found them to be perfect for what they were.

Perhaps that is the middle ground where you and I can agree: there are things that we both want that a lot of other people do not, and because of that fact alone, the industry will always go by "majority rule" and will leave certain ones behind. After all, the companies are there to first and foremost make some money, and just as with film, music, and any other form of art, that will remain to be a block between those seeking true innovation and those who are looking for a layman's good time.

But there's one more thing: unlike you, I like the Nintendo approach. And consistency is good, if they are consistent at making great games. Nintendo franchises are popular, yet they are popular for a pretty good damn reason: the character's adventures stay with a seal of power. I understand that there are lots of things that you dislike about Nintendo today, and perhaps you should look elsewhere for entertainment. Despite the fact that fans of Space Quest still exist, there will not be another "official" Space Quest made by the original "Two Guys from Andromeda," and the reason for that is that there were enough of assholes like you saying the same kind of bullshit like what your posts generally represent. At the right time. At the right place. And loudly enough for the company in debt to overhear. But still.

Perhaps I should point out that as a person who also likes those games you've hated on, I would like them to continue. That is to say, I'd like for Link to not speak, I'd like for Mario to keep being the italian plumber jumperman, and I don't want realistic combat in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I also think that Nintendo's take on alternative control helps immersion, in the same way that it helps to turn off the lights when watching a movie, or to have people shut up when listening to music. Having to worry less about the way you control your character is just as much of an innovation as being able to see your videogame avatar better. Sure, that's MY opinion, and according to you it's dumb and it stinks, and I just say that because Nintendo have managed to brainwash me.

But, I'd like to tell you: Nintendo fans want Nintendo to succeed. Despite their mistakes, and despite their major fuck-ups. Because yes, they are better than their competition. And their games are more fun and more unique than other stuff on the market. I don't feel like rationalizing that, because my point is that _I fuckING LIKE IT_.


Oh yeah, last thing: I will not stop using "leet speek" when making up mock-quotes of my opposition. I'll use it more now just to piss you off. And as much as I appreciate your opinion on what's funny and what's not, I'm going to be the judge of that when it comes to editing my post. Tough shit, last I checked your name is Moo-something, and the one next to my post is MarioColbert. I will tell you, however, that using colors as obnoxiously as you do is about the most NOT funniest thing you can do.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Looks like Friend-codes on the Wii. Awesome. Bout time for some disapointing news. Cant wait for the official word that Zelda is going to be Wii exclusive and it wont take personal smart media but a special Nintendo brand smart media that's twice the price for the same amount of storage.[/QUOTE]
Dude... get over it. Now you're just trolling in your own thread. Here I thought all the news so far was disappointing for you, or there wouldn't be a reason for this topic in the first place.

There comes a point where you complain so much about the Wii, all the while saying you're going to buy it anyway, that you become the people you've railing against, buying Nintendo no matter what.
 
[quote name='botticus']Dude... get over it. Now you're just trolling in your own thread. Here I thought all the news so far was disappointing for you, or there wouldn't be a reason for this topic in the first place.

There comes a point where you complain so much about the Wii, all the while saying you're going to buy it anyway, that you become the people you've railing against, buying Nintendo no matter what.[/quote]

Good point. I wait till after launch and test it in stores. If it feels like console versions of DS games... I'll just set it aside till games that interest me come out.

I guess in the end, I DONT really get it. I'm skeptical, and Nintendo has been feeling really dull lately to me. The magic is gone, and profit and financial gain replaced it. I'm tired of picking Mario in the only 5 good games on the system... and the Wiimote feels so Gimmicky its rediculous.

After a 12-14 hour day of work, I dont feel like waving my arms around like an idiot and I dont play video games when I have the energy to do something more productive with my time. The Wii is not for me. My girlfriend on the other hand wont stop talking about. it.... =)
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Good point. I wait till after launch and test it in stores. If it feels like console versions of DS games... I'll just set it aside till games that interest me come out.

I guess in the end, I DONT really get it. I'm skeptical, and Nintendo has been feeling really dull lately to me. The magic is gone, and profit and financial gain replaced it. I'm tired of picking Mario in the only 5 good games on the system... and the Wiimote feels so Gimmicky its rediculous.

After a 12-14 hour day of work, I dont feel like waving my arms around like an idiot and I dont play video games when I have the energy to do something more productive with my time. The Wii is not for me. My girlfriend on the other hand wont stop talking about. it.... =)[/quote]

I know you probably don't want to take me seriously, but this is the best post of yours so far. I'm down with "only time will tell" sentiment, regardless of whether or not I will pick one up at launch.

If you don't mind me asking, though, what games apart from Shadow of the Colossus did you enjoy as of late? I agree with "magic is gone" idea, except for me it's not in Nintendo games (but with most of PC titles as of late). Any insight into what your top picks of this past generation are (you've reflected plenty on Nintendo franchises, yet a cross-platform list is what I'm asking for) would be appreciated.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']

Dual screen is a Gimmick... and the DS doesnt have enough titles that fully support the touch screen.
[/quote]

That gimmick is currently wiping the floor with it's nearest competitor.


BTW, Why don't people look at Sony's failures.

Mini-Disc (1991)--custom disc format, and used ATRAC audio compression, which is proprietary.
Sony Dynamic Digital Sound (1993)--a competitor to the Dolby Digital 5.1 standard.
Multi-Media Compact Disc (1994)--Sony's proprietary format for high-density optical storage, developed in conjunction with Phillips. Negotiations merged this format and Toshiba's Super Density disc format into what would become DVD.
Music Clip (1999)--Sony's first digital player, used ATRAC audio compression.
HiFD (1998)--a competitor to Iomega's Zip drive.
Memory Stick (1998)--proprietary memory device as a competitor to SD and Flash memory.
Super Audio CD (1999)--an optical disc format with higher fidelity than the CD.


Heck, a little over a year ago they released a 20 GB MP3 Player I was interested in. Then I find out it used the ATRAC audio compression, instead of regular MP3s. I was disgusted that Sony was still trying to shove their Mini-Disc format down my throat.
 
[quote name='MarioColbert']I know you probably don't want to take me seriously, but this is the best post of yours so far. I'm down with "only time will tell" sentiment, regardless of whether or not I will pick one up at launch.

If you don't mind me asking, though, what games apart from Shadow of the Colossus did you enjoy as of late? I agree with "magic is gone" idea, except for me it's not in Nintendo games (but with most of PC titles as of late). Any insight into what your top picks of this past generation are (you've reflected plenty on Nintendo franchises, yet a cross-platform list is what I'm asking for) would be appreciated.[/quote]

Well, here's the problem with my list... but I'll come up with one. Soon...

I was getting out of gaming completely. After 6 million "urban" games and FPS's I am just tired of gaming all around. I walked in a EB downtown and at a whim picked up a new game. For the first time in years. I bought True Crime : New York City. (I dont know why, I never played the first one... I guess I just hate GTA and wanted to see what the fuss was about without playing GTA)

I put it in, played for 2 hours... put the controller down, got up and smoked a cig outside... walked back in and packed up all of my 5 consoles and 2 handhelds w/games and sold them all at gamestop.

I didnt play anything for months, and to be honest.. it was really nice.

Now, I had 2 PS2's, the old one, and my girlfriend had the thin one for Taiko Drum Master and Katamari... My girlfriend picked up the game I really wanted before I got rid of everything and told me to come over.

It was of course, Shadow of the Colossus.

It wasnt just the realistic movements, or the colossuses... it was the magic. The magic games lacked for so long, when it was a simple story and a simple play.

Now you'll notice right there, "Nintendo's got that!" - yeah, they do... but this was something different. Nintendo 8bit was like reading a novel, you had the basic idea of what you looked like and what was going on... but your imagination filled the rest. When graphics got better, and games got better... your imagination was used less and less.

To me, Nintendo 8bit games, were always a bit dark... maybe it was the color palette... but I loved the idea of Mario being in this wierd world like in SMB 2. It was so dark, and Mario was a shining light...

But mario become more and more colorful, and more and more vibrant... until the game looked like a bright, colorful eyesore.

By the time SM Sunshine came out, it looked like a 8 year old came up with it. And all the creatures were the same... nothing changed like the old SMB games did everytime a new one came out.

Then I saw this and got hope... this is my idea of Mario and Luigi... it's concept are of superstar saga -

feature.jpg


That's the Super Mario Bros. I remember... a little darker palette, real feeling... has magic like a 40's Disney cartoon. I was hoping Nintendo would make something artistic and beautiful like this for their SMB console games... but you see Galaxy, and its the same damn model for Mario they've used for 5 years...

I used to be happy, scared, frantic, hopeful, etc, etc for Mario. Now I'm just happy. Granted, its nice to play a game that puts you in a good mood... but it doesnt challange you emotionally.

When I play Mario on the gamecube, this is what I see on the screen.

GC122.jpg


Its fun, colorful, slightly humorous, and it quickly puts you in a good mood. But look at it for 5 minutes or more and you get really tired fast of looking at it. Where the REAL fun?

Something exciting, like Mario textured like the concept art above running on a clay brick terrain, green pipes with cloudy blue skies above and Luigi following you stomping on goombas you miss or helping you get to higher places you cant jump... A world you can taste, and immediatly immerse yourself into.

Instead, it's bright and slightly irritating... I feel from Nintendo grace because Nintendo didnt communicate to me anymore with their high res. 3D models...

I dunno, I'll post a list of this gen faves later... back to work!
 
[quote name='jer7583']Colbert, you rock. I know the psp statement was opinion, not fact, but I just hate that little shitty portable so much, and the rapstar wannabes to bling bling it off their neck more often than use it. Yes, i've seen this happen numerous times around here, and yes, i laugh hysterically whenever i see it.[/quote]
You're saying you hate the PSP?! I could've sworn you've been singing its praises in any thread mentioning the PSP. I don't know what's real anymore. :cry:
 
Mooky: since your post had big-ass pictures, I didn't want to "quote" it because I'm too lazy to edit them out, but I guess I'm not too lazy to type up this sentence... In any case, I am replying to you.


What's interesting, is that all the bullshit aside, I can more than relate to the whole "not playing videogames" deal. I've looked through the thread about posting your collection pics, but apart from maybe 15 GameCube games, and a lot of old (read: ancient) PC titles, I have ultimately nothing to show off.

I'm younger than you by a year or so (based on your response in this thread), but I've gone through multiple periods of not playing things at all. I own only one console and one hand held (you can guess what they are), and both are special to me, since the former was my first purchase ever with my first job in the US. The second was a birthday gift from the woman I'm marrying in February.

I was way more frustrated with games than you, when Sierra On-Line announced the immediate cancellation of Leisure Suit Larry 8 (LUST IN SPACE) and Space Quest VII (rumored to be called "The Return to Roman Numerals") back in 1999. When Full Throttle 2 and Sam and Max 2 (Freelance Police) were wiped out of existence, I knew that losing Ron Gilbert wasn't the worst thing that happened to LucasArts (and that was 2002 or so). I know this seems like I'm changing the subject away from Nintendo, but it is my firm belief that the truth in many of your statements apply more to the videogame industry in general, and I want to let you know, that even if you boycott, scream, fight, and bomb videogame boutiques in an act of terrorism in hopes of better character development in videogames - your voice is not likely to be heard.


Things that are truly "original" and "magical" to me are the bottom layer of the underdogs, and not because "that's totally cool." Playing through Psychonauts was an amazing experience, and despite the fact that arrogant fans are bitching Revolution Software out TO THIS DAY for it, I found Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon to be one of the best things I've played in forever. (Note: Syberia and Indigo Prophecy suck donkey balls, so no, being an "underdog" does not imply "instant awesome")


If I may make one statement that I really wish to be well understood, is that with age, the frequency of magical and unique objects appears to dissipate. My guess is that by the time you are too old to kick it, there are very few things worth kicking anymore, at the very least to this proverbial "you" that I'm referring to. With videogames, I doubt that most young adults our age today can be happy to what has become of their afterschool specials, and each and every console out there. (I got this from Nintendo: they're milking this nostalgia bit ferociously with the Virtual Console, and EXCITETruck, Duck Hunt 2, Donkey Kong Wii, etc.)

I knew what was up when I was showing the high quality trailer of Super Smash Bros. Brawl to my friends who have not seen it 'til then. No matter how cool Snake is, no matter how much of a tit outline you can spot on Zero Suit Samus, the biggest "HOLY SHIT" that I have ever heard was when Pit flew out and broke his bow into swords. It wasn't due to "immersion," or because everyone was dying to have him in there. (In fact, most everyone present did not think of Pit for at least 10 years or so....) It was because at that moment, every single fucking mid-20s asshole with a shitty job, or a stupid paper due the next day had a flashback to the time when you sat on the floor, being frustrated as shit at Kid Icarus. And that is about as happy as a video game thought can get.

My point is: this is your choice now. You either ride the nostalgia, or you give up completely. From where I'm sitting, your only other option is try to keep up with the younger enthusiasts, and feel constantly dissapointed.



And one last thing: having something like Psychonauts happen after years of really not digging anything... is still better than not playing Psychonauts at all. :)
 
games are supposed to be fun... What has this all turned into? I dont see why we all need to defend consoles as if we created them... just enjoy what you enjoy and go play.
 
Nintendo Fanboys tend to be more vicious then others, they seek out fights...

Just look at the PS3 forum compared to the Wii forum, in the Wii forum, there is one topic pointing out flaws in the console, and every nintendo fanboy and there cousin are coming here to debunk the fact...

In the PS3 forum, its countless annoyances by WII FANS! Yelling on top of their lungs on, "OMG! Have you seen Marios new overalls! PS3 cant do that!"

It sure gets old fast.
 
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