Remember How I Asked Why the Mayor and Governor Did Squat?

PittsburghAfterDark

PittsburghAfterDark

CAGiversary!
Remember I asked why it was the mayor and governor campaigns of NO and Lousiana could bus anyone willing to vote to them to the polls but didn't have the foresight to bus people to safety out of an oncoming hurricane? Remember how none of you wanted to address that but instead blame Bush?

Well here you go! Hundreds of New Orleans School District busses sitting gathered, idle, ready to go and.... under water. The order never came from city hall to deploy these busses and evacuate people somehwere, ANYWHERE, away from New Orleans.

8uedp


Local incompetence made this much worse than it needed to be. There's roughly 150 buses in that picture alone that could have ferried out anywhere from 6,000-7,500 per trip depending on what you allowed evacuees to take. How many other hundreds of busses did the city own or were in surrounding parishes? However we can't say it was local incompetence.... the mayor is a black Democrat and Bush is a white Republican.

We KNOW where the blame must lie.
 
In response to your continued furious spinning on the fact that Dear Leader once again had a "My Pet Goat" moment, I present the words of blogger Steve Gilliard:


Ever wonder why New Yorkers detest George Bush?

Because we experienced his incompetence up close and person. We knew this guy was full of shit, absolutely full of fucking shit, after they started to play games with the funding and gave Wyoming terrorism money. We knew he was an assclown then.

We thought DC 9/11 was a comedy, because the Bush we saw hid in AF One like the scared bitch that he is.

But did you listen?

fuck no. Until last week, Ann Coulter was calling New Yorkers cowards for not endorsing Bush's folly in Iraq.

We have been screaming for two years that Bush and his team sucked. That they had no clue. They sent soldiers to be wounded in Iraq without armored anything. And you idiots cheered him on from the safety of your keyboards. We told you he was fucking up Iraq. But no, we supported Saddam, we were racist, we blamed America.

You say this isn't about politics? fuck you, this IS politics, real time, real life politics, where the insanity of all your ideas are exposed to the world for the fraud that they are. Tax cuts kill. Ask the relatives of the dead of the Gulf Coast.

Well, motherfuckers, the alligators are feasting on dead $$$$$$ and there isn't an Iraqi in sight. And Bush is trying to gladhand his way through a mess which has stunned FOX reporters. I mean, Shepard Smith is calling Fox's talking heads liars ON THE AIR.

CNN rips Bush in print and online after nearly five years of sleep.

Instead of hearing what we had to say about Bush, you called John Kerry a coward, mocked Max Cleland, blamed everything but herpes on Bill Clinton. You enabled Bush into this mess and now you're shocked?

Now, Fox can be outraged, now, Wash Times and Union Leader call Bush weak? Well, his coward ass disappeared in 2001. But you rather blame Michael Moore for that.

He can't even explain the Iraq war to a grieving mother.

So what did you do?

Write the most vile things about her and her dead son. Attacked her patriotism and her honesty.

Well, motherfuckers, and that means you, fat ass Goldberg and your master, Rich Lowry, PNAC Bitch Beinart, the racist wannabe white Malkin and the little fucktards at LGF, Bareback Andy and "Diversity" Instacracker, all you backstabbing, fag hating uncle tom ministers, you can see Dear Leader in action. America's largest port is gone, maybe forever, gas is $5+ a gallon and FEMA is coming. Whores come faster with old men than FEMA is getting to NOLA.

How did your wartime President react? Like Chiang Kai-Shek when the Yellow River flooded in 1944, with corrupt indifference.

Bush, the man your fever dreams built into the next Winston Churchill when he is really the live action Chauncey Gardiner, has failed to everyone, in plain sight, without question. Rick Perry is trying to save his ass, but it ain't working. NOLA looks like ANGOLA and that ain't flying.

Say 9/11 changed everything now, motherfuckers. Ooops, 9/11, 9/11. 9/11. Doesn't work anymore? Gee, maybe the sea of alligator MRE's once known as the citizens of New Orleans has something to do with that. Now you can shut the fuck up about 9/11. Bush just proved what would happen with another 9/11. Dead Americans as far as the nose can smell.

Drunken Chris Hitchens muttered some nonsense about blacks having it so good here. The poor man needs to stay in his bottle or go to Betty Ford before someone beats his treasonous ass stupid. Islamofascism means what, now motherfucker? Shove Islamofascism up your well travelled ass. The most dangerous thing to average Americans is not some mullah in Iraq, not even Osama Bin Laden, but George Bush. If he doesn't get you killed in Iraq, he'll fuck up saving your city so it turns into Escape from New Orleans. Armed junkies roaming the streets, looking for a fix, robbing and looting like Serb paramilitaries and about as sober.

George Bush's ineptitude has killed far more Americans than Osama could have dreamed of.

Some of you still try to see the clothes on the Dauphin, but he's as naked as Peter North around Jenna Jameson. Bush fucked up so bad, FOX turned on him like a rabid dog.

You can't hide behind racism forever. Bush fucked up, Bush is a weak, callous leader and the world knows this like it knows few other things. And all the stolen TV's in the world cannot hide that.


http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/09/we-told-you-so.html



[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Remember I asked why it was the mayor and governor campaigns of NO and Lousiana could bus anyone willing to vote to them to the polls but didn't have the foresight to bus people to safety out of an oncoming hurricane? Remember how none of you wanted to address that but instead blame Bush?

Well here you go! Hundreds of New Orleans School District busses sitting gathered, idle, ready to go and.... under water. The order never came from city hall to deploy these busses and evacuate people somehwere, ANYWHERE, away from New Orleans.

8uedp


Local incompetence made this much worse than it needed to be. There's roughly 150 buses in that picture alone that could have ferried out anywhere from 6,000-7,500 per trip depending on what you allowed evacuees to take. How many other hundreds of busses did the city own or were in surrounding parishes? However we can't say it was local incompetence.... the mayor is a black Democrat and Bush is a white Republican.

We KNOW where the blame must lie.[/QUOTE]
 
Good luck finding drivers.

Unless you know you wanted inexperienced drivers careening down water soaked roads into almost certain death.
 
Drivers? Now its because we couldn't find drivers....

OMG, this is getting funnier by the response. In a city of 500,000 there aren't any truck drivers, school bus drivers, city bus drivers, limo/airport shuttle drivers, hotel bus drivers to drive these busses.

This gets better and better.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']I present the words of blogger Steve Gilliard:
[/QUOTE]
Or the man who writes like a highschool drop out. Are we suppose to take that drivel seriously? I mean, of all the hundreds of bloggers out there who desperately try to pin the blame on Bush, you pick that one.

That was quite honestly the most inane, and frivolous written piece of work I've read in quite some time.
 
Actually I dont know that im just guessing.

>>>In a city of 500,000 there aren't any truck drivers, school bus drivers, city bus drivers, limo/airport shuttle drivers, hotel bus drivers to drive these busses.

And presumably they already left. Being almost by definition in access of a vehicle and competent drivers.
 
Well, if you aren't interested in Gilliard's commentary, how about the thoughts of other Republicans?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/national/nationalspecial/03WIRE-BUSH.html

Four days after Katrina killed hundreds if not thousands, Republicans joined Democrats in shaking their heads.

"If we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" asked former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a Republican.

Republican Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts called the government's response "an embarrassment."
 
CUT AND PASTE RESPONSE I have the feeling I'm going to be using this one a lot.....

Any state and local government will tell you that it's local control and response to a disaster that is key in the first 96-120 hours. FEMA is not structured to be able to roll into a major metropolitan area on 12 hours notice. It takes 5 days for them to be on the scene, period. This is nothing new.

Let's think of mobilizing an army, something I am intimately familar with. That's what you're doing here. You're mobilizing enough support, construction, water purification, communications and engineering personnel for 400,000. These personnel cannot be pre-positioned in an urban area and more than likely they are going to come from a minimum of 10 states.

Let me give you some idea of what it takes to mobilize a division, 30,000 soldiers, you can gather the personnel from cancelled leaves, vacations etc. within 72 hours. 3 days. You can then organize and ship them to any destination in the world within another 72 hours. So, so far you're at 6 days. Now even if you were mobilizing an Army unit from Texas to Louisiana you may, at best, cut 48 hours off that time table and you're still at 4 days. However we're just talking about getting people there.

For many military pieces of equipment you cannot use standard trucking or rail cars. It may take 96 hours to recall the rolling stock of flatbed rail and truck cars from around the country. Add this on top of the 72 hours required to gather all personnel. To ship it anywhere in the country, say Maine, may take another 72-96 hours.

So while boots can be on the ground in 4 days, which is the NORM for FEMA just as after 9/11, it may take 10-14 days for heavy and specialized equipment to roll in. The first stages of a disaster are completely dependent on how well prepared and situated city and state government is for a crisis. First stages being lets say 4-5 days. It's going to take the feds that long to mobilize.

In Desert Shield/Storm we had sent airborne, Marine and Air Force units to Saudi Arabia within 2 weeks of the Kuwaiti invasion. We would not have been able to fully repel an Iraqi invasion for 90-120 days after the word "GO" and it would have been 120-150 days before we would have been able to conduct offensive operations. At the time we were moving men and material for 300,000.

You're asking now that we provide relief, reconstruction and restoration for a city of 500,000 in 5, now 6, days. It can't be done. It just can't be done.

We've become so conditioned that food comes from Kroger, Wal Mart and Safeway. That water comes from the tap and sewage disappears when we flush the toilet that people fail to understand what each marvel truly is. Food distribution, water distribution and sewage are things that have taken our entire existence as a species to perfect. Those systems cannot be repaired and replaced in a week if destroyed.

To me this argument of how fast aid arrived is not political, it's practical. You cannot pre-position enough men, material and supplies to provide 48 hour relief to any metropolitan area in the U.S.. The government, like the military or any company, is working with a limited budged and limited resources. Once brought to bear those combined resources are massive and have no equal in the world though. However like turning a giant ship with a small rudder guiding those resources take a lot of time to get to their destination from the given order.

This is not a defense of any politician or an attack on Lousiana's or NO's elected officials. It's just common sense. Getting enough personnel and equipment to help 300,000 people takes more than 96 hours to get organized, shipped and ready for duty/work. End of story.
 
Local governments would have and a much better chance of handling the situation if they had say 2 or 3 times the local national guard troops they did have, but sadly all those troops are pulling extended tours in Iraq.
 
[quote name='Cheese']Local governments would have and a much better chance of handling the situation if they had say 2 or 3 times the local national guard troops they did have, but sadly all those troops are pulling extended tours in Iraq.[/QUOTE]

Sadly you're wrong.

3,000 or Louisiana's 11,500 NG troops are in Iraq and combat units are ineffective in helping natural disaster areas. These are spread out across 74 units in 43 various Louisiana communities. SOURCE

Next time you want to spout off about a topic try even being half wrong instead of completely wrong. You'll look MUCH better.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']CUT AND PASTE RESPONSE I have the feeling I'm going to be using this one a lot.....

Any state and local government will tell you that it's local control and response to a disaster that is key in the first 96-120 hours. FEMA is not structured to be able to roll into a major metropolitan area on 12 hours notice. It takes 5 days for them to be on the scene, period. This is nothing new.
[/QUOTE]


So then it makes sense to have them get ready BEFORE the hurricane hits. It's not like they didn't have advance warning. How about declaring a state of emergency before the hurricane hits, like Clinton did when Floyd hit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/447954.stm
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']So then it makes sense to have them get ready BEFORE the hurricane hits. It's not like they didn't have advance warning. How about declaring a state of emergency before the hurricane hits, like Clinton did when Floyd hit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/447954.stm[/QUOTE]

The way I see this, if you blame the victims for staying because they knew what was likely to happen, then you have to blame the government because they knew what was likely to happen, and had much more information than the general public did. If the victims ignored the obvious, then so did the government by not having at least somet things ready to go when the hurricane hit.
 
Do you think people give a damn about there fellow citizens?
Once they found out about a hurricane that would destroy there houses & possibly kill family members they got the f%ck outta there!! Hell, 30+% of the police force turned in there badges!!!
 
Look, everyone deserves some blame. Let's start witht the Mayor. Yes, the Mayor did follow evacuation plans that had been in place for years. He evacuated 80% of the city. But they did nothing for the 100,000 that could not make it. And having just room and supplies for 10,000 people at the superdome was not enough were not enough. You must admit though, he followed the plans on the books and even reloacted the goverment to Biloxi where it could still function. Just like Washington will evacuate in a major emergency. But after the storm hit, where the hell was he? Who knows? He sure as hell wasn't in New Orleans. And that's his biggest criticism. He disappeared. Too busy doing radio spots than directing action. And then he was insane to order the evacuation of the hotels in downtown BEFORE the people in the convention center.. I guess a bunch of tourists, including an MP from Spain, are more important the the poor black children and elderly in his own city. They had to wait two more days for rescue.

But, in his defense, he does not have the resources or manpower to respond to the level of massive devestation. There is no way any mayor, his city in ruins, has enough manpoer, supplies, or resources to deal with destruction on this level.

Then there's the governor, who was obviouslly, throughout the crisis, did not have the fortitude or leadership ability to handle the emergency. She was obviously overmatched. And she knew it. So she was continuously asking for help from the federal goverment. It wasn't just New Orleans that suffered, her entire state was ravaged, just like Mississippi. And their resources were used up in a day. Now you argue that it's the states responsibilities to have the resources and direct the emergency response. But for an event of this magnitude, The state used up every single resource it had, and there was still chaos.

On a disaster of this magnitude, it requires an immediate federal response, But, while President Bush could fly back to washington on a moments notice for a brain dead woman in florida, when 100,000+ people were trapped in New Orleans he flew out to California to liken the war in Iraq to World War 2. The President today, TODAY, sent an additional seven thousand troops to Louisiana. That'll bring the troop level to less than 30,000 in the state when DAYS AGO the Governor requested 40,000 National Guard troops. And it took him till TODAY to issue just another 7000 more?!?!?!

Look at the FEMA Director. Every american watching TV knows people are dying at the Convention Center in NO. Yet, when Ted Koppel askes him what he's going to do about it, he calles it an unconfirmed report. He says the news reports are unreliable. UNRELIABBLE!?!? People are dying on TV and he says he doesn't have any clue about it. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MAN. People knew 36 hours before him that there were survivors trapped there.

He needs to be fired.

Then there's Micheal Chertoff. Today he said that there was no plan to deal with a disaster of this magnitude. The the goverment never expected the Levees to break. Which is in itself untrue. Because the Mayor followed a disaster plan that had been on the books. And that FEMA supposeldy practiced this scenario last year. And for at least five years and longer the city had been examinining the possibilities of this major disaster scenario. It was listed one of the top three disaster scenarions that may face the nation.

Even more pointedly, just today on C-Span, after Chertof made his increadibly uninformed remarks, C-span ran a JUNE hearing cunducted in the senate on this very issue addressing the need for improvements and the effects a class five hurricane might have on the city. His assertion that there wasn't a plan was just as rediculous as the presidents that nomone expected the levees to break in NO. When levees overflow, THEY BREAK. That's what;s levees do. And the Army Core of Engineers had stated that the levees in new orleans could not hold back the storm surge from a class 4 or five hurricane and fail and break.

Then there's Congress. The Army CoE requested 100 million dollars to reinforce the levees and beef up the hurricane plans in NO.. But the republican congress and the president cut that back to less than fifty million. Meanwhile, the Senator from Alaska in charge of the transportation comittee was able to appropriate 200 million dollars to build a massive bridge to an island inhabited by less than fifty people. A BRIDGE to an UNINHABITED ISLAND takes more precidence than the protection and welfare of a major metropolitan area. It gets four times the funding!!!! So Congress failed us in that department.

And now we get to the President. Here was a man who was out of touch. He is the chief executive of the United States Goverment. He's the boss. First,. all federal responsibility ultimately falls on him. It took him three days to properly respond to this disaster. A day or two too late I imagine. On his interview with Diane Sawyer he was a disgrace. First, he was uninformed by mentioning that no one didn't expect the levees to break. And he seemed more concerned about his TAX CUT than with the people in NO.

The federal response has been poor. He could place the orders and get troops there. But instead the administratuion is doing the same thing you're doing PAD. Blaming the governor. Well, intimes of emergency, the President has wide power to defend the safety and security of american citizens. He could snap his fingers and get troops to LA. But he didn't. And then he blames that the giovernor didn't request help properly when she's pleading on public radio three days prior.

He's more concerened about protecting the back of a FEMA Director that is obviously incopetent instead of rolling up his sleeves and taking charge of the efforts himself. THAT"S HIS JOB. That's why he's called the COMMANDER AND CHIEF!!!! In times of emergency Americans recognize that the goverment has to mobilize in ways that might not normally be allowed to protect the safety and security of the citizenns. If this wasn't one fo those times, WHAT IS? And ultimately this makes him more responsible than anyone else. Because he is THE ONLY MAN in this countrty with the authority, the ability, the resources, and the duty to ultimately bring the full powerr of the federal goverment to bear in a time of such extreme crisis. And he sat around for three days and did effective nothing. Avbsolutely NO leadership from the man. He jokes about his wild youth in Houston on the tarmack of New Orleans while a hundred yards away the sick and wounded lay in misery waiting for evacuation.

And now the man who was the one to say, "Now is not the time to blame, " is trying to have his administration spin this to deflect as much blame as possible from him. That's unacceptab;e. He failed us. And I gave the man the benfit of the doubt on 9-11. Those who scoff at his reaction while reading that book are unfair. Who knows how a man would react in the first minutes of 9-11. I remember waking up to it and I was dumbstruct. But this time there is NO EXCUSE. HE had time for the initial shock to get over and lead. But what does he do? He goes touring for photo ops?!? After several days of doing next to nothing.

Look. there's plenty of blame to go around. But what the President has done, (or not done) is as indefensiblle as the rest. And as the leader of our nation, as the last man we turn towards for hope. As the only man with the authority and the support and the resources to get the job done. As the sole person we turn towards in times of such strife, has an extra burden on his shoulds that goes above any mayor, or governor, or indiividual legislatire, or director. In the end, he is the one who is given the most responsibility in the crisis. So he must bear the greatest responsibility when everything goes wromng.

And there is NO WAY, no concievable way, that anyone who honesly appraises his reaction can defend his response. And ultimately everyone answers to him. FEMA is his responsibility. The Military is his responsibility. Homeland Security is his repsonsibility. The citizens of New Orleans are as much his responsibility as the Governors and the Mayors. Remember, he;'s not just the president of Alabama, or Delaware, or California. He's the president of these United States. And that includes New Orleans and the citezens trapped within.

The President failed us as much as everyone else this week. And ultimately, his failure is the greatest betrayal of all.
 
But after the storm hit, where the hell was he? Who knows? He sure as hell wasn't in New Orleans.
Click to expand...

Just want to point out, he was leading a group of people to the dome or to a bridge in the first day or two, or at least the news said he was about to. I assume he did, but I can't confirm it. Basically, he announced he would be in new orleans leading a group of survivors to something, and I'm sketchy on the rest. I also would like to know if anyone can confirm he actually led the march.

Also, in his defense of evacuating the hotel, if there was only a couple busses available at that point, going to the convention center wasn't practical while evacuating a hotel was, due to the much smaller scale. Bringing a few busses when you have tens of thousands of people would have created an issue on the ground.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Sadly you're wrong.

3,000 or Louisiana's 11,500 NG troops are in Iraq and combat units are ineffective in helping natural disaster areas. These are spread out across 74 units in 43 various Louisiana communities. SOURCE

Next time you want to spout off about a topic try even being half wrong instead of completely wrong. You'll look MUCH better.[/QUOTE]


Reports I've read have said that out of the 11500 only 6500 were available for duty. Using that number I came up with the 2 times number. I admit I jumped the gun and assumed the remainder were in Iraq. Only 3000 and most of their heavy equipment was. I can admit when I am wrong.

PittsburghAfterDark
I Get Rich Off the Poor



Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Complete List of U.S. Friends and Allies Contributing Katrina Relief
...........


That is all.
Click to expand...

To bad you can't.
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']Look, everyone deserves some blame. Let's start witht the Mayor. Yes, the Mayor did follow evacuation plans that had been in place for years. He evacuated 80% of the city. But they did nothing for the 100,000 that could not make it. And having just room and supplies for 10,000 people at the superdome was not enough were not enough. You must admit though, he followed the plans on the books and even reloacted the goverment to Biloxi where it could still function. Just like Washington will evacuate in a major emergency. But after the storm hit, where the hell was he? Who knows? He sure as hell wasn't in New Orleans. And that's his biggest criticism. He disappeared. Too busy doing radio spots than directing action. And then he was insane to order the evacuation of the hotels in downtown BEFORE the people in the convention center.. I guess a bunch of tourists, including an MP from Spain, are more important the the poor black children and elderly in his own city. They had to wait two more days for rescue.[/QUOTE]

The mayor is actually IN the hotel that was evacuated - that is, in fact, the main reason that it was evacuated: its centrally located and mostly undamaged, and is being used as a base of operation for the police in the area. The mayor has been there, in the city's temporary base-of-operation, right in the middle of the disaster, since at least Tuesday.

Its certainly worth questioning his actions before the hurricane (though as you said, he WAS simply following the guidelines created by FEMA), but he's been working non-stop right in the heart of the city for most of the week. The reason you don't see him is that he's doing actual work, not stopping for a photo-op every 10 minutes.
 
Oh, and speaking of photo-ops, German TV is reporting that Bush's appearance at supply distribution sites being set up in NO was completely fake, nothing more than a photo-op:

ZDF News reported that the president's visit was a completely staged event. Their crew witnessed how the open air food distribution point Bush visited in front of the cameras was torn down immediately after the president and the herd of 'news people' had left and that others which were allegedly being set up were abandoned at the same time.[/url]

It would be a breath-taking display of gall if this is true.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']beautiful, beautiful things[/QUOTE]

:applause:

It's a shame (or perhaps a privelege?) that only us CAGs have the opportunity to read this.
 
I basically agree with Ackbar, though the plan that had been around for years was not really a good plan and they knew it ahead of time. I hear there were lots of criticisms to this plan of their after Ivan and nothing was changed in the plan, in fact Nagin said flat out they'd do nothing differently. The Mayor and Governor said they planned meetings to improve the evacuation plan and make it more effective, that obviously did not seem to happen.

There's also the fact that the mayor and governor obviously had no plan in place to help the poor people evacuate prior to the hurricane (shoving them in the superdome was their only plan and they didn't even give them a way to get there), the same people that they are now criticizing others for not helping properly. Everyone can probably be faulted for doing something wrong here, but passing the buck off to somebody else seems to be a popular approach.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Sadly you're wrong.

3,000 or Louisiana's 11,500 NG troops are in Iraq and combat units are ineffective in helping natural disaster areas. These are spread out across 74 units in 43 various Louisiana communities. SOURCE

Next time you want to spout off about a topic try even being half wrong instead of completely wrong. You'll look MUCH better.[/QUOTE]

I would have to disagree abit about combat units not being effective with natural disasters. SC guard is always prepositioned before a hurricane gets close. Alot of these units are combat units. Though each unit is has a certain role to do. MP units would carry out police duties and what not. I was in Mechanized Infantry and was called up for several hurricanes. Usually in under 18 hrs we were in position. Every man you can get in there helps out alot. Yes you do need the equipment and such for some circumstances, but manpower is the biggest part.

SC does not have a coastal city as large as NO so I can not say if this state could have reacted any better. We did learn alot from Hugo years ago. SC does deploy about 1600 troops prior/ during a hurricane unless more are asked for. This is out of about 10000 troops that are in the SC guard (could be more, dont have the exact number). Some units are deployed to Iraq, but there is a large number still here. Glad to see some are being sent to help out the gulf coast.
 
DomeBuses.jpg

Just how far were those busses from New Orleans refugees???
bus2.jpg

Now were there other lots FULL of busses? WHY YES THERE WERE!
ddc2df

Why is New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin smiling?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The way I see this, if you blame the victims for staying because they knew what was likely to happen, then you have to blame the government because they knew what was likely to happen, and had much more information than the general public did. If the victims ignored the obvious, then so did the government by not having at least somet things ready to go when the hurricane hit.[/QUOTE]


I'm not blaming the victims for staying. The ones who stayed didn't stay because they wanted to, they stayed because they had no means of leaving. I AM blaming the govt, speciifically Bush, because natural disaters are supposed to be handled by Homeland Security. This is their mission statement:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp
Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.


Since they knew it WAS going to be this bad (see this link)

NEW YORK Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center, told the Times-Picayune Sunday afternoon that officials with the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Department of Homeland Security, including FEMA Director Mike Brown and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, listened in on electronic briefings given by his staff in advance of Hurricane Katrina slamming Louisiana and Mississippi--and were advised of the storm’s potential deadly effects.

"Mayfield said the strength of the storm and the potential disaster it could bring were made clear during both the briefings and in formal advisories, which warned of a storm surge capable of overtopping levees in New Orleans and winds strong enough to blow out windows of high-rise buildings," the paper reported. "He said the briefings included information on expected wind speed, storm surge, rainfall and the potential for tornados to accompany the storm as it came ashore.

"We were briefing them way before landfall," Mayfield said. "It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped."

Chertoff told reporters Saturday that government officials had not expected the damaging combination of a powerful hurricane levee breaches that flooded New Orleans.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054595

They should have been set up before Katrina landed.
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']I'm not blaming the victims for staying. The ones who stayed didn't stay because they wanted to, they stayed because they had no means of leaving. I AM blaming the govt, speciifically Bush, because natural disaters are supposed to be handled by Homeland Security. This is their mission statement:
[/QUOTE]

I didn't say you did. I said if someone blames the victims for not leaving because they knew what was coming, then you have to blame the government as well. Not the other way around.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']
Because he knows what local officials fucked up the most![/QUOTE]

hey that is an excellent rebuttal to Ackbar.

Seriously, you really took the issues he raised and points he made and turned it all around.

At first I was like "woah, fuck! He didn't say a goddamn thing! In fact, he made a stupid cheesy photoshop to prove some lame ass point about one of the worst disasters in the history of the U.S, that is totally fucking tasteless!"

but then I saw the cunning and depth of your argument.

three cheers.
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']hey that is an excellent rebuttal to Ackbar.

Seriously, you really took the issues he raised and points he made and turned it all around.

At first I was like "woah, fuck! He didn't say a goddamn thing! In fact, he made a stupid cheesy photoshop to prove some lame ass point about one of the worst disasters in the history of the U.S, that is totally fucking tasteless!"

but then I saw the cunning and depth of your argument.

three cheers.[/QUOTE]

You should have seen the even more tasteless pic with the busses in the shape of a "D" for democrat, but it looks like he didn't properly link it since it's no longer there.
 
bushwatch.com

The Story of the Hurricane Cowboy Who Fiddled While New Orleans Drowned, Amanda Lang Why did Bush vacation – cut wood, clear brush, bike, and read -- for days while the world watched Katrina develop, then slam as a category 4 hurricane into the Gulf Coast? Just as he did on September 11, 2001, he froze. They don’t have cable or telephones in Crawford? The unfolding catastrophe has Bush leadership skills, or lack thereof, written all over it. He treats his own citizens with the same contempt and callousness as he does the Iraqi civilians – as “collateral damage.” If a category 4 hurricane is not a “bomb” dropping on American soil, what is? Bush remained on vacation one whole day after Katrina hit, WAITING FOR WHAT? The federal government was ‘missing in action’ and has failed its citizens abysmally. And Congress... where the hell are they? They rushed back to Washington over night for one woman’s feeding tube, but can’t seem to find the way back for a destructive hurricane that most likely killed thousands. Are these Americans too poor or not expounding the right religion to garner attention the Trade Tower victims received? They all sat and watched this train wreck, now they are screwing up the rescue and salvage, probably busy searching for the ‘scapegoat’ du jour. Did the Bush administration and Congress want to create a situation where they could declare martial law? Looks like it. New Orleans has become a war zone. Martial law declared. Since when is a policy of "you loot, we shoot" appropriate for people just trying to survive until help arrives? THEY ARE DYING.
 
bushwatch.com

The Story of the Hurricane Cowboy Who Fiddled While New Orleans Drowned, Amanda Lang
Why did Bush vacation – cut wood, clear brush, bike, and read -- for days while the world watched Katrina develop, then slam as a category 4 hurricane into the Gulf Coast? Just as he did on September 11, 2001, he froze. They don’t have cable or telephones in Crawford? The unfolding catastrophe has Bush leadership skills, or lack thereof, written all over it. He treats his own citizens with the same contempt and callousness as he does the Iraqi civilians – as “collateral damage.” If a category 4 hurricane is not a “bomb” dropping on American soil, what is? Bush remained on vacation one whole day after Katrina hit, WAITING FOR WHAT? The federal government was ‘missing in action’ and has failed its citizens abysmally. And Congress... where the hell are they? They rushed back to Washington over night for one woman’s feeding tube, but can’t seem to find the way back for a destructive hurricane that most likely killed thousands. Are these Americans too poor or not expounding the right religion to garner attention the Trade Tower victims received? They all sat and watched this train wreck, now they are screwing up the rescue and salvage, probably busy searching for the ‘scapegoat’ du jour. Did the Bush administration and Congress want to create a situation where they could declare martial law? Looks like it. New Orleans has become a war zone. Martial law declared. Since when is a policy of "you loot, we shoot" appropriate for people just trying to survive until help arrives? THEY ARE DYING.
 
Minor issue but If PAD isn't even honest enough to show the driving distance of the busses to the Superdome what is the point?

Unless he is blaming the mayor for not retro-fitting school busses with hovercraft technology. Actually that the probably the one thing he hasn't blamed the mayor for.


The one thing I keep going back it is, If the city and state response was so bad (as PAD and his ilk claim) wouldn't that make the federal response all the more important? Instead, of this well everyone fucked up so Bush is not too blame bullcrap.

In fact, this administration specifically adopted a plan that allowed the feds to step in without waiting for state and local officials. From the National Response Plan page 43.

The NRP establishes policies, procedures, and mechanisms for proactive Federal response to catastrophic events. A catastrophic event is any natural or manmade incident, including terrorism, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions. A catastrophic event could result in sustained national impacts over a prolonged period of time; almost immediately exceeds resources normally available to State, local, tribal, and private-sector authorities in the impacted area; and significantly interrupts governmental operations and emergency services to such an extent that national security could be threatened. All catastrophic events are Incidents of National Significance.

Implementation of Proactive Federal Response Protocols

Protocols for proactive Federal response are most likely to be implemented for catastrophic events involving chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-yield explosive weapons of mass destruction, or large magnitude earthquakes or other natural or technological disasters in or near heavily populated areas.

Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response
Guiding principles for proactive Federal response include the following:
? The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.
? Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
? Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.
? Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
? State and local governments are encouraged to conduct collaborative planning with the Federal Government as a part of "steady-state" preparedness for catastrophic incidents.

Implementation Mechanisms for Proactive
Federal Response to Catastrophic Events
The NRP Catastrophic Incident Supplement (described in the Catastrophic Incident Annex) addresses resource and procedural implications of catastrophic events to ensure the rapid and efficient delivery of resources and assets, including special teams, equipment, and supplies that provide critical lifesaving support and incident containment capabilities. These assets may be so specialized or costly that they are either not available or are in insufficient quantities in most localities.

The procedures outlined in the NRP Catastrophic Incident Supplement are based on the following:
? The pre-identification of Federal assets and capabilities;
? The strategic location of pre-identified assets for rapid deployment; and
? The use of pre-scripted mission assignments for Stafford Act declarations, or individual agency authority and funding, to expedite deployment upon notification by DHS (in accordance with procedures established in the NRP Catastrophic Incident Supplement) of a potential catastrophic event.
Click to expand...

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf
 
okay..the adminstration has taken to lying about the State's response. PAD et al. Take note, I am ending this one before it starts.

from today Washington Post (and newsweek) -shame on them

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.
Click to expand...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

State of emergency was declared..Aug 26th

http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005 proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf

Those fuckers.
 
[quote name='usickenme']okay..the adminstration has taken to lying about the State's response. PAD et al. Take note, I am ending this one before it starts.

from today Washington Post (and newsweek) -shame on them



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

State of emergency was declared..Aug 26th

http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005 proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf

Those fuckers.[/QUOTE]

Just to let you know your Washington Post link doesn't work, fixed it in the quote above.
 
[quote name='usickenme']okay..the adminstration has taken to lying about the State's response. PAD et al. Take note, I am ending this one before it starts.[/QUOTE]

Can't say I'm terribly surprised. That's the Bush administrations standard proceedure: muddy up the waters with a bunch of different stories, try desperately to confuse everyone, then declare success. Medals of Freedom all around! They only get away with this because the media never bothers to fact-check anything, because if they actually pointed out that somebody wasn't telling the truth, they may get accused of bias. So we wind up with (to paraphrase a rather amusing remark I heard the other day...)

"Kerry says 2+2=4. Bush says 2+2=5 I guess we'll never know for sure. Next up, a special 60 minute presentation about some missing rich white girl, in which will re-re-re-reexamine all the non-evidence and unfounded rumors that we've already presented several thousand times over the past 6 months."

Has the sleeping giant of quality journalism been awaked by Katrina? I've heard some rumblings of it over the past week, but it only have been turning over to get more comfortable. Only time will tell...
 
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