Retailer explains how used Xbox One games are traded in and bought

SINNED

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CAGiversary!
A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.

The game is then registered as having been trade-in on Microsoft’s system. The consumer who handed it over will subsequently see the game wiped from their account – hence the until now ambiguous claim from Phil Harrison that the Xbox One would have to ‘check in’ to Microsoft’s servers every 24 hours.

The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publ...of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

Goodnight sweet deals.
 
Why would you say goodnight sweet deals? As far as I can tell this won't impact used game prices. In fact since GS cannot take the full used cut there won't be a huge gouge on price I would guess. It does eliminate Ebay and Craigslist though which IS bull.
 
So now I wont be able to sell my used games on Amazon? That is a dealbreaker for me. Also a good way to kill any new IPs that come out. Why would I waste money on a new game I may not like if I will be stuck with it, or have to go trade it in to GS for 15% of what it is worth? I really wanted to stay with XBox this generation, but if this is true it looks like I will be only buying a PS4.

In such a tight console war I really do not know why a company would try to fuck over its user base so hard. It isnt like MS is the only game in town. I just hope enough gamers say "fuck you" to MS and do NOT buy their product. Sadly, I know most will bend over and take it with a smile.
 
We still do not know Sony's plan. They only confirmed there will be a way to trade used games. I am betting it will be the same for both systems even if they use different ways to control the used game.
 
When I trade in a game to Amazon, I just want my money and then the transaction is done. I don't feel great about Amazon needing to then access my gamertag and take away the rights to that game. What if they accidentally take away the rights to the wrong game? I mean I'm sure it could get straightened out eventually but what a nightmare.

As to the Console Warz stuff, I'd be willing to bet that Sony is on board with the exact same thing. We haven't heard anything about their plans yet so we don't know.
 
I agree that Sony is going to be doing the same thing. No way EA gets rid of online passes just because of Microsoft. A cut of used game sales is something that EVERY publisher wants. If Sony doesn't do this, publishers and development companies would be more apt to create only for Xbox because of the increased sales profits. No way Sony doesn't do this because what corporation doesn't like making more money. Microsoft just took the leap first.
 
So much for private sales and lending, then.

I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a console reveal.
 
I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sony doing something similar, since if they didn't a lot of companies would have more reason to make games on the Xbox One if they make money off of both the used and new game sales.
 
Maybe this is why Ubisoft pulled Rayman... and also why publishers are taking a wait-and-see approach with Nintendo and WiiU. Certainly the slowdown in sales after the first couple of months didn't help, but Nintendo systems already have a reputation for only moving large amounts of 1st party titles and not 3rd party stuff. Now 3rd parties have another reason to favor MS and Sony, unless WiiU sales really take off when gamers learn about these restrictions.
 
[quote name='MoCiWe']I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sony doing something similar, since if they didn't a lot of companies would have more reason to make games on the Xbox One if they make money off of both the used and new game sales.[/QUOTE]

But that's assuming people buy into this game trade in system. Although a lot of people trade in games to GS and Amazon, there's a lot of people who sell games on eBay, Craigslist, local mom & pop stores, etc. that probably will not like this system and will probably go to the PS4 if it doesn't have the used game restrictions.

Even then, based on how bad Games for Windows Live has been, I'm guessing this system is going to be a disaster.
 
We *want* it to be a disaster for the sake of our wallets.

However, there's a very good chance that the average joe consumer won't know or understand the changes to this at all. AT ALL. Or care.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']Why would you say goodnight sweet deals? As far as I can tell this won't impact used game prices.[/quote]
You answered your own question in the same post.[quote name='cancerman1120']It does eliminate Ebay and Craigslist though which IS bull.[/QUOTE]
Used prices from other human beings have always been lower than retail used prices.

With that market gone, retailers will be able to command a higher used price.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']We still do not know Sony's plan. They only confirmed there will be a way to trade used games. I am betting it will be the same for both systems even if they use different ways to control the used game.[/QUOTE]
Yup I have a feeling sony will be doing something similar.
 
[quote name='confoosious']We *want* it to be a disaster for the sake of our wallets.

However, there's a very good chance that the average joe consumer won't know or understand the changes to this at all. AT ALL. Or care.[/QUOTE]
agree, ppl like us are in the miniority. your average joe consumers / call of duty loyalists will still buy the xbox one no matter what, so they can play with their friends.
 
I don't like losing my ability to sell games on Amazon. But I'm usually just selling things for $10-15 as I'm not often selling things anywhere near launch and just price it as low as possible to sell right away anyway. So if I can trade things into Amazon for around those prices then I guess it's more or less the same for me.

I don't buy used games, don't lend my games (none of my local friends game) and don't rent games (really only play mainstream AAA games I know I'm going to like) so the rest of it doesn't affect me.

I don't like it all on principle as consumers should own things they purchase. But it's much like my Kindle e-books where none of it really affects me despite my not liking the DRM etc. in principle.
 
Media content companies, in general, have hated the first-sale doctrine in the U.S. because they don't get to profit from the used market directly. Since, at least in the U.S., they haven't been able to get rid of it in the courts, they'll try by other means. This is Microsoft's attempt. If this used game system is implemented, I wonder how long it'll be until some takes MS to court over first-sale?

Wiki entry for the first-sale doctrine.
 
[quote name='midlifecrisisMkII']Media content companies, in general, have hated the first-sale doctrine in the U.S. because they don't get to profit from the used market directly. Since, at least in the U.S., they haven't been able to get rid of it in the courts, they'll try by other means. This is Microsoft's attempt. If this used game system is implemented, I wonder how long it'll be until some takes MS to court over first-sale?

Wiki entry for the first-sale doctrine.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting that.
 
[quote name='confoosious']We *want* it to be a disaster for the sake of our wallets.

However, there's a very good chance that the average joe consumer won't know or understand the changes to this at all. AT ALL. Or care.[/QUOTE]

You are probably right. People paid ridiculous prices for MS's HDDs and WiFi adapters for years, and MS wouldn't have done it unless they think they can get away with it.
 
[quote name='Vinny']You are probably right. People paid ridiculous prices for MS's HDDs and WiFi adapters for years, and MS wouldn't have done it unless they think they can get away with it.[/QUOTE]

If the games are there, people will do whatever to play them.

Fans of Halo, Gears, CoD are going to by the Xbox One to keep playing those games with all their friends who are also MS gamers.

People who love Uncharted, Infamous, Gran Tourismo etc. are going to buy PS4s even if it has the same used game restirctions etc.

Some of the hard cores on sites like this may balk and go PC gaming only etc., but the average Joe Six Pack gamer won't care as it doesn't really affect them. They're not aware of all the details, can still trade their games into Gamestop like they do all the time now etc.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']Why would you say goodnight sweet deals? As far as I can tell this won't impact used game prices. In fact since GS cannot take the full used cut there won't be a huge gouge on price I would guess. It does eliminate Ebay and Craigslist though which IS bull.[/QUOTE]

Well, possibly not. There are rumors that Microsoft will allow the digital trading of game licenses as well. If true, we might see a whole new sort of ecosystem spring up on the XBox One, where consumers are able to exchange their right to play specific titles with each other.

This could actually be quite good for consumers. A system like that would be much more cost-effective than GameStop's current system, even if Microsoft was charging a fee for each exchange.

The big problem at the moment is inertia. The market has been functioning in a given fashion for so long, that it is going to be resistant to the kind of change Microsoft is pushing forward. But there could actually be advantages to this approach, if Microsoft implements the system properly.

The whole push to digital goods isn't necessarily bad for consumers. More than anything else, it's bad for GameStop. It's also kind-of bad for game collectors, but there's another thread for that discussion. I, for one, am fine with GameStop getting the shaft. My favorite non-GameStop used game stores will barely feel this. Their business is centered around classic games, not the most recent generation titles. It's only GameStop with their new-release churn that is going to get truly shafted by this transition.

The big problem for Microsoft is once again, inertia. That inertia is going to slow adoption of the XBox One, which in turn will severely hamper exclusive development for the platform.

But it might not be too bad in the long run. Microsoft still has the 360 to ride for a few years. A more gradual transition is possible for Sony and Microsoft.
 
Great Recession + anti-consumer "features" = rude awakening for the industry.

I can't wait. Maybe we'll see something like the NES in the aftermath of the next crash.
 
[quote name='ECisMe']So much for private sales and lending, then.

I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a console reveal.[/QUOTE]

This is so so so disappointing and, if true, will probably make me not buy an Xbox One.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Great Recession + anti-consumer "features" = rude awakening for the industry.

I can't wait. Maybe we'll see something like the NES in the aftermath of the next crash.[/QUOTE]

This will be interesting to see. The economy is doing much better, but unemployment is still high--especially among recent college grads. So we do have a big chunk of the core gamer demographic that's still tight financially. At the same time, a lot of young people spend all their income, run up credit card debt etc., so who knows.

I think it just comes down to the games. When the Xbox One and PS4 have some big games like CoD, Halo, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone etc. out and only on the next gen platforms, gamers will buy the consoles one way or the other.
 
[quote name='Javery']This is so so so disappointing and, if true, will probably make me not buy an Xbox One.[/QUOTE]

If it is true, then I think we could be pretty sure the PS4 would do the same.

I mean EA didn't get rid of their Online Passes if only MS was doing something to limit used sales as they'd be throwing away money on the PS side of things.

I imagine whatever system they put in place will probably allow private sells/trades of games for some fee. But maybe not if they've got an exclusive agreement with Gamestop and/or Amazon etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']This will be interesting to see. The economy is doing much better, but unemployment is still high--especially among recent college grads. So we do have a big chunk of the core gamer demographic that's still tight financially. At the same time, a lot of young people spend all their income, run up credit card debt etc., so who knows.

I think it just comes down to the games. When the Xbox One and PS4 have some big games like CoD, Halo, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone etc. out and only on the next gen platforms, gamers will buy the consoles one way or the other.[/QUOTE]
most ppl/your average consumers does not wait till the game drops to $10, and get it for cheap. They pay the game at msrp price during release date, or close to release date. Unlike ppl like us on cag forum, who stalk the thread for cheap gaming deals daily. They mostly play most of the few well-known title franchises like, COd, halo, uncharted, madde, Ea sport titles. which all their friends/buddies play.
 
[quote name='YBX87']most ppl/your average consumers does not wait till the game drops to $10, and get it for cheap. They pay the game at msrp price during release date, or close to release date. Unlike ppl like us on cag forum, who stalk the thread for cheap gaming deals daily. They mostly play most of the few well-known title franchises like, COd, halo, uncharted, madde, Ea sport titles. which all their friends/buddies play.[/QUOTE]

Yep. And my point was those people are still going to buy consoles to play those games.

And I shouldn't really say "those people" as that's pretty much all I play these days.

And I'd like to get back to just buying a few AAA mainstream games a year at launch and not having a backlog next gen so I'll probably be even more in that boat.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']This will be interesting to see. The economy is doing much better, but unemployment is still high--especially among recent college grads. So we do have a big chunk of the core gamer demographic that's still tight financially. At the same time, a lot of young people spend all their income, run up credit card debt etc., so who knows.

I think it just comes down to the games. When the Xbox One and PS4 have some big games like CoD, Halo, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone etc. out and only on the next gen platforms, gamers will buy the consoles one way or the other.[/QUOTE]

"The Economy" is such a nebulous term. Young people and lower to middle class families have less disposable income since before the gaming industry started. This is a whole new ocean for the game industry. The industry is in decline and MS is acting like Kutaragi. The difference is the PS3 launched before the Great Recession.

It's fun to speculate. As much as I enjoy games, 90% of them are garbage now. We need a crash to get something revolutionary like the NES.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']If it is true, then I think we could be pretty sure the PS4 would do the same.

I mean EA didn't get rid of their Online Passes if only MS was doing something to limit used sales as they'd be throwing away money on the PS side of things.

I imagine whatever system they put in place will probably allow private sells/trades of games for some fee. But maybe not if they've got an exclusive agreement with Gamestop and/or Amazon etc.[/QUOTE]

Why?

Sony didn't region lock their games... even when the technology was out to do so.

Sony didn't require a butt ton of proprietary hardware and add-ons (Vita memory card aside) for the PS3.

While they very well may do something similar it is a little premature to just assume so.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep. And my point was those people are still going to buy consoles to play those games.

And I shouldn't really say "those people" as that's pretty much all I play these days.

And I'd like to get back to just buying a few AAA mainstream games a year at launch and not having a backlog next gen so I'll probably be even more in that boat.[/QUOTE]
I know that is what you meant. Honestly, when my friends came over to my home, and saw the vast backlog/ gaming collection I own. They asked how i got the money to buy all these games, then I told them about cag forum for video game deals. Their response was a funny/ weird/ clueless look. Most of them never thought about stalking a forum daily just for video games. Before joining cag, those are the types of game i only played as well. It is with the cheap deals i gotten, after joining cag, when i started expanding my horizon on different types of games to play.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']"The Economy" is such a nebulous term. Young people and lower to middle class families have less disposable income since before the gaming industry started. This is a whole new ocean for the game industry. The industry is in decline and MS is acting like Kutaragi. The difference is the PS3 launched before the Great Recession.
[/QUOTE]

All ture. And it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The stock market has bounced back to record highs (yay for my retirement accounts) and the upper middle class and above is doing great. But that's obviously not the core of the gamer market. Most gamers in those brackets are probably like me and only buying a handful of games a year due to not having time to play more than that from working a lot etc. If the younger gamers who have more free time to game aren't able to buy into the next gen in the first year or two, it could be a real struggle for Sony and MS--just like it has been for Nintendo with the Wii U.

[quote name='GBAstar']Why?

Sony didn't region lock their games... even when the technology was out to do so.

Sony didn't require a butt ton of proprietary hardware and add-ons (Vita memory card aside) for the PS3.

While they very well may do something similar it is a little premature to just assume so.[/QUOTE]

It is just speculation at this point.

But EA wouldn't have dropped their online passes totally if they weren't going to have someway to make money on used game sales on all platforms (other than Wii U--and I wouldn't be shocked to see them just not support it once the next gen is rolling).

I also wouldn't think that Sony would turn their back on that revenue stream--money on used sales of first party games, maybe fees on person to person game trades/license transfers etc.

I mean maybe they would to be able to tout it as a benefit over MS. But at the same time, that's a lot of potential money and if both companies do it most gamers have no choice so they wouldn't lose sales by doing the same as MS--and MS is already taking all the heat for it. The mainstream gamer market isn't going PC only or to Wii U like hardcores on this site might.
 
Sony won't do this for a few reasons. It would kill the PS4 in Japan and they don't have the infrastructure for it like MS does. They'll just leave it up to the publishers.
 
[quote name='Bluth Superfan']Sony won't do this for a few reasons. It would kill the PS4 in Japan and they don't have the infrastructure for it like MS does. They'll just leave it up to the publishers.[/QUOTE]

Could very well work that way if publishers can use whatever used game/license transfer system Gamestop or whoever puts in place for MS for games on other platforms if they so choose.

Otherwise, again, I can't see EA dropping online passes if they didn't know they had someway to get some profits from used game sales on BOTH the Xbox One and PS4.
 
The stock market has bounced back to record highs (yay for my retirement accounts) and the upper middle class and above is doing great. But that's obviously not the core of the gamer market. Most gamers in those brackets are probably like me and only buying a handful of games a year due to not having time to play more than that from working a lot etc. If the younger gamers who have more free time to game aren't able to buy into the next gen in the first year or two, it could be a real struggle for Sony and MS--just like it has been for Nintendo with the Wii U.
Click to expand...
but you also forgot the factor, that alot of those young gamers, also comes from the upper middle class, and above. Surely, their parents would have no problem getting them the next gen console at release. Maybe those numbers are not huge, but they are not to be ignored.
 
If Sony leaves it up to the individual publishers I think it will effectively amount to the same thing that MS is doing. I'm definitely taking a wait and see approach to the next generation and may end up only buying a WiiU due to all of the anti-consumer nonsense being thrown around - who would have thought!?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The economy is doing much better, but unemployment is still high--especially among recent college grads. So we do have a big chunk of the core gamer demographic that's still tight financially. At the same time, a lot of young people spend all their income, run up credit card debt etc., so who knows.[/QUOTE]

The economy is not doing better. We've never gotten out of the recession.

-The Fed has printed ~2.5 trillion dollars and currently 85 billion dollars a month to prop the stock market up to undeserved all-time highs. A huge bubble, much bigger than 2008.
-A misleading unemployment rate (Check the labor force participation rate. Workers are dropping out of the labor force, and many jobs being given are part-time due to the Obama care requirements)
-A fake inflation rate (food/energy are not counted) of 1-2%

[quote name='Javery']If Sony leaves it up to the individual publishers I think it will effectively amount to the same thing that MS is doing. I'm definitely taking a wait and see approach to the next generation and may end up only buying a WiiU due to all of the anti-consumer nonsense being thrown around - who would have thought!?[/QUOTE]

Same here. The Xbox One is already out or me, and if the PS4 does the same thing, no way I'll buy it. I have a Wii U and I'd have no problem sticking only to that to avoid this bullshit.
 
[quote name='nintendospy']The economy is not doing better. We've never gotten out of the recession.

-The Fed has printed ~2.5 trillion dollars and currently 85 billion dollars a month to prop the stock market up to undeserved all-time highs. A huge bubble, much bigger than 2008.
-A misleading unemployment rate (Check the labor force participation rate. Workers are dropping out of the labor force, and many jobs being given are part-time due to the Obama care requirements)
-A fake inflation rate (food/energy are not counted) of 1-2%
[/quote]

All true and good points. The only thing that's bounced back is the stock market that's at record highs. But that really only benefits those of us who were never really hit by the recession other than our retirement accounts/investments taking a hit.

For people who lost jobs, couldn't find jobs after graduating etc., things aren't much better at all.

For me, the economy is better. I never lost my job, got a 22% raise last year etc., so I largely dodged the recession. I also didn't take much of an investment hit since I finished grad school in summer 2009 and started my career in August 2009. So I didn't really have any money invested until the stock market started bouncing back--so perfect timing for my retirement accounts to build up nicely early on.

But it's easy to forget that most people weren't/aren't so fortunate, so thanks for the reminder.
 
Hopefully when MS/Sony go to this type of system and rant and rave that Steam is like this and still popular, they will then be forced to provide Steam-like deals on digitally downloaded content on a similarly Steam timeline. I love used games but if Sony/MS make me buy new ones, they had better make it more affordable, at least when I buy them digitally.
 
If Microsoft made cars:

When purchasing the car, they would tell you that while you do own the car, they remain owner of the ECU and the software the ECU runs is only being licensed to you for your usage.

Instead of using a car key to start it, you would swipe your driver's license and it would verify that you are the owner of the car by using cell phone signal before starting.

You'd have swipe your license once per 100 miles to verify that you are in posession of the car. If you are out-of-range of a cell phone signal, you may drive the car 100 miles before the engine shuts off.

If you sold your car, your ECU would be disabled and no longer run until the buyer signs an End-Driver Licensing Agreement and pays an Activation fee. Only 40,000 Microsoft Auto Points. *sold only in packages of 50,000 points

They would make sure it is known as immoral to sell a car without paying the manufacturer again. The poor engineers put all that work into it and are being ripped off

Any attempts to defeat the protection of the car is a violation of the Auto Millennium Copyright Act (AMCA)
 
[quote name='xRidley']If Microsoft made cars:

When purchasing the car, they would tell you that while you do own the car, they remain owner of the ECU and the software the ECU runs is only being licensed to you for your usage.

Instead of using a car key to start it, you would swipe your driver's license and it would verify that you are the owner of the car by using cell phone signal before starting.

You'd have swipe your license once per 100 miles to verify that you are in posession of the car. If you are out-of-range of a cell phone signal, you may drive the car 100 miles before the engine shuts off.

If you sold your car, your ECU would be disabled and no longer run until the buyer signs an End-Driver Licensing Agreement and pays an Activation fee. Only 40,000 Microsoft Auto Points. *sold only in packages of 50,000 points

They would make sure it is known as immoral to sell a car without paying the manufacturer again. The poor engineers put all that work into it and are being ripped off

Any attempts to defeat the protection of the car is a violation of the Auto Millennium Copyright Act (AMCA)[/QUOTE]

Well put.
 
[quote name='ColFantastic']If Sony doesn't do this, publishers and development companies would be more apt to create only for Xbox because of the increased sales profits. [/QUOTE]

[quote name='MoCiWe']I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sony doing something similar, since if they didn't a lot of companies would have more reason to make games on the Xbox One if they make money off of both the used and new game sales.[/QUOTE]

Huh?

So developer X (we'll call them EA ;) ) makes XB1 exclusives because Sony won't lock down used game sales. So the consumer (that's me) will flock to their system because EA makes an exclusive title only for XB1.

Sorry, I can't see that, look at Wii U, devs are fleeing in droves because of hardware sales, if XB1 looses a significant share of core gamers to Sony or Nintendo (who is the surprise benefactor so far with this announcement) because they won't tolerate this anti-consumerist BS.

If Sony sells the PS4 in droves those said publishers will flock to their doorstep and be begging to release those former exclusive titles on the PS4 as well because they NEED the sales it will bring. Especially if the XB1 flops at retail. And even if XB1 has Wii like success to casual and non-gaming types, we all know how that worked out for Nintendo this gen, now don't we, with all of those people buying zero to none as far as games were concerned, and not buying the Wii U at all.

There's many factors in what you both say, while publishers are all for getting more money in their pockets with a stricter leash on used game sales, they risk serious financial issues by driving away their main consumers (you know the people who actually buy more than say 1 game a year).

So I don't believe Sony would be so ignorant as to look at the backlash from the XB1 debut and blindly follow step into the abyss and loose a massive amount of fans by doing what MS did (or is accused of doing) at this point. I've read Xbot diehards championing up PS4 loyalty as long as it doesn't do the same stupid things that the XB1 does.

But I guess we'll all know where the chips will fall in a few weeks at E3, but I seriously hope MS has a big shovel to dig out of this grave they've put themselves in with their gamers and loyalists to their brand. Otherwise this gen is pretty much done, even before it gets started.
 
[quote name='uncle5555']Huh?

So developer X (we'll call them EA ;) ) makes XB1 exclusives because Sony won't lock down used game sales. So the consumer (that's me) will flock to their system because EA makes an exclusive title only for XB1.

Sorry, I can't see that, look at Wii U, devs are fleeing in droves because of hardware sales, if XB1 looses a significant share of core gamers to Sony or Nintendo (who is the surprise benefactor so far with this announcement) because they won't tolerate this anti-consumerist BS.

If Sony sells the PS4 in droves those said publishers will flock to their doorstep and be begging to release those former exclusive titles on the PS4 as well because they NEED the sales it will bring. Especially if the XB1 flops at retail. And even if XB1 has Wii like success to casual and non-gaming types, we all know how that worked out for Nintendo this gen, now don't we, with all of those people buying zero to none as far as games were concerned, and not buying the Wii U at all.

There's many factors in what you both say, while publishers are all for getting more money in their pockets with a stricter leash on used game sales, they risk serious financial issues by driving away their main consumers (you know the people who actually buy more than say 1 game a year).

So I don't believe Sony would be so ignorant as to look at the backlash from the XB1 debut and blindly follow step into the abyss and loose a massive amount of fans by doing what MS did (or is accused of doing) at this point. I've read Xbot diehards championing up PS4 loyalty as long as it doesn't do the same stupid things that the XB1 does.

But I guess we'll all know where the chips will fall in a few weeks at E3, but I seriously hope MS has a big shovel to dig out of this grave they've put themselves in with their gamers and loyalists to their brand. Otherwise this gen is pretty much done, even before it gets started.[/QUOTE]
Romantic thoughts, but it's pretty obvious that, in terms of buying power, the "true gamer" is in the minority here.

Look how the 360 soared to great new sales heights with the addition of the Kinect. I don't own a Kinect. I don't know anyone who has one. Casual gamers.

I'll get some kneejerk hate for this, but it's true: Look how many mommies and grandmas bought the Wii for their tiny babies last generation. It was very successful to the non-core gamer.

The uninformed, casual consumer gamer outweighs us a million to one. Gaming is extremely mainstream now, and will become more and more so.
 
Wow, it seems like of all the segments of gamers out there, us cheap arse gamers are going to suffer the most from all this. We are the deal seekers, we the waiters for price drops. We buy and sell things on Ebay and Craigslist, because we are so damn cheap that we don't want to give ANY money to any middle man.

This is going to affect our segment of the gaming population more than any other segment.

I don't think I've EVER traded a game into GameStop. You know why ? Because they give pennies on the dollar. Why the heck would I ? You buy a brand new game for about $66 after tax, and GameStop is going to offer you like 20 bucks in store credit. Why would I do that, when I can sell that same game on Craigslist for 45 bucks ?

Why deal with a middle man ?


Yet, this is going to be a thing of the past when it comes to the PS4 and Xbox One. Games won't be able to be sold on Craigslist or Ebay. They are completely killing that market. Games will traded in, and sold used only at specific retailers that agree to all the stipulations involved.

So, instead of me being able to sell my used game on Craigslist for $45, I'll instead have to settle for maybe $15 store credit from a place like GameStop or Best Buy.


The end result is that I'm only going to purchase a game, if I know that it's an absolute home run type game, with tons of hours of gameplay. Something like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout 3 or Skyrim or GTA V. No way I'm going to take any chances on any mediocre type games. It's too risky. You spend $66, get a crappy game, and can only get $15 back for it, then you've taken a huge $51 loss on that gamble.

What about rental ? If you can't rent the game first, it's even more dangerous. You'll pretty much have to wait for all the reviews, and watch all the videos, and be extremely cautious with each purchase decision you make. No margin for error.
 
[quote name='Anthony1']Wow, it seems like of all the segments of gamers out there, us cheap arse gamers are going to suffer the most from all this. We are the deal seekers, we the waiters for price drops. We buy and sell things on Ebay and Craigslist, because we are so damn cheap that we don't want to give ANY money to any middle man.

This is going to affect our segment of the gaming population more than any other segment.

I don't think I've EVER traded a game into GameStop. You know why ? Because they give pennies on the dollar. Why the heck would I ? You buy a brand new game for about $66 after tax, and GameStop is going to offer you like 20 bucks in store credit. Why would I do that, when I can sell that same game on Craigslist for 45 bucks ?

Why deal with a middle man ?


Yet, this is going to be a thing of the past when it comes to the PS4 and Xbox One. Games won't be able to be sold on Craigslist or Ebay. They are completely killing that market. Games will traded in, and sold used only at specific retailers that agree to all the stipulations involved.

So, instead of me being able to sell my used game on Craigslist for $45, I'll instead have to settle for maybe $15 store credit from a place like GameStop or Best Buy.


The end result is that I'm only going to purchase a game, if I know that it's an absolute home run type game, with tons of hours of gameplay. Something like Red Dead Redemption or Fallout 3 or Skyrim or GTA V. No way I'm going to take any chances on any mediocre type games. It's too risky. You spend $66, get a crappy game, and can only get $15 back for it, then you've taken a huge $51 loss on that gamble.

What about rental ? If you can't rent the game first, it's even more dangerous. You'll pretty much have to wait for all the reviews, and watch all the videos, and be extremely cautious with each purchase decision you make. No margin for error.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly how I feel, especially since I have made quite a business out of buying and selling used games on eBay. This move kills my business for the future. Its no wonder prices for retro games are up. I am so cheap that I really don't want to spend $500 for something that does the same thing as something I already have.

I can't really think of a game that is worth $60, maybe something like Ni No Kuni, Skyrim, Dragon Quest or Pokemon. But DQ and Pokemon dont even cost that much, The only games that would be worth getting are those that have at least 60 hours of gameplay in them. People will be much more cautious with their game purchases, except for those that have tons of disposable income, but that isn't a whole lot of people in my area.

I wonder what eBay has to say about all this, they make a lot of money off those that sell used games in fees, it can't be good for their business either.
 
[quote name='uncle5555']Huh?

So developer X (we'll call them EA ;) ) makes XB1 exclusives because Sony won't lock down used game sales. So the consumer (that's me) will flock to their system because EA makes an exclusive title only for XB1.

Sorry, I can't see that, look at Wii U, devs are fleeing in droves because of hardware sales, if XB1 looses a significant share of core gamers to Sony or Nintendo (who is the surprise benefactor so far with this announcement) because they won't tolerate this anti-consumerist BS.

If Sony sells the PS4 in droves those said publishers will flock to their doorstep and be begging to release those former exclusive titles on the PS4 as well because they NEED the sales it will bring. Especially if the XB1 flops at retail. And even if XB1 has Wii like success to casual and non-gaming types, we all know how that worked out for Nintendo this gen, now don't we, with all of those people buying zero to none as far as games were concerned, and not buying the Wii U at all.

There's many factors in what you both say, while publishers are all for getting more money in their pockets with a stricter leash on used game sales, they risk serious financial issues by driving away their main consumers (you know the people who actually buy more than say 1 game a year).

So I don't believe Sony would be so ignorant as to look at the backlash from the XB1 debut and blindly follow step into the abyss and loose a massive amount of fans by doing what MS did (or is accused of doing) at this point. I've read Xbot diehards championing up PS4 loyalty as long as it doesn't do the same stupid things that the XB1 does.

But I guess we'll all know where the chips will fall in a few weeks at E3, but I seriously hope MS has a big shovel to dig out of this grave they've put themselves in with their gamers and loyalists to their brand. Otherwise this gen is pretty much done, even before it gets started.[/QUOTE]

I agree that it doesn't mean the consumer will like it as much, and yeah these companies obviously do want to keep their fans, but they need money to do that, let's use this so called "EA" company again :p, they had their little project 10 dollars going on, they announced they weren't going to do that for next gen, it would make sense if this was because now they at least get those 10 dollars from any used game sale that they made without the need of having an online pass.
Honestly to me, if they got the percents all locked in at a fair amount I'm okay with this as it's nice to see the Developers/Publishers make more money since that could mean more games for us as fans, and this way people who choose not to/can't afford a lot of new games are still able to help the general gaming market out with their purchases.
It sucks for people who sell on eBay/Craigslist/Amazon and for the stores like GameStop, but I guess I usually don't so there is no big difference for me. I'm not saying I fully agree with them doing this but it's something that I can see both the positives and negatives that come along with it.

As you pointed out though, it's something I don't really want to focus on much (along with all the other Xbox Ones news out now) until E3 where we might get some more answers and see some more reasons that make the new systems more worthwhile then not.
 
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