Ripken Jr.,Gwynn in Hall of Fame

eaglebeak

eaglebeak

CAGiversary!
Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn have been elected into the Hall of Fame. Mark McGuire wasn't elected in his first year of eligibility....should he have been? Is there bias when it comes to who deserves election? Are there players in the Hall who don't deserve to be there?...and some who should, who have been passed over?......anyone have thoughts?
 
Was this Ripkens first year of eligibility? He is the type who deserves to be voted in first year. NOT McGuire. I don't think McGuire will be voted in for a while, which shouldn't come by as surprising because players usually are not voted in first year.
 
[quote name='help1']Was this Ripkens first year of eligibility? He is the type who deserves to be voted in first year. NOT McGuire.[/quote]

Yes, this was Cal Ripken's first year on the ballot.

What bothers me the most is how some players that have been passed over or being close to their last year of eligibility are not elected where some players already in have lesser stats.....for example: Bill Mazeroski in the Hall....Dave Concepcion and Steve Garvey...not...when both have superior numbers than he.....just because he hit one home run to win a World Series.

I think a lot of players aren't getting the recognition they deserve. The election system should be overhauled.
 
Ripken is coming to my university to speak. I'm probably not gonna go as I have no interest in baseball, but from what I've seen, he's a good man who deserves it. McGuire is an asshat plain and simple.
 
[quote name='eaglebeak']Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn have been elected into the Hall of Fame. Mark McGuire wasn't elected in his first year of eligibility....should he have been? Is there bias when it comes to who deserves election? Are there players in the Hall who don't deserve to be there?...and some who should, who have been passed over?......anyone have thoughts?[/quote]

Hall of Fame in every sport is a joke considering politics and favoritism play a bigger role than most realize. McGwire cheated. So did a lot of players. Spittballs, pine tar, nail files. I'm not saying McGwire deserves to be in, but if he is out then there are quite a few others who need to be removed also.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Hall of Fame in every sport is a joke considering politics and favoritism play a bigger role than most realize. McGwire cheated. So did a lot of players. Spittballs, pine tar, nail files. I'm not saying McGwire deserves to be in, but if he is out then there are quite a few others who need to be removed also.[/QUOTE]
Disregarding the fact that pine tar and spitballs are on a totally different level when compared to steroids, McGwire failed to be forthright at the Congressional hearings on steroids in baseball. That's one of the biggest reasons why he's not in and why he doesn't deserve to be in.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']Disregarding the fact that pine tar and spitballs are on a totally different level when compared to steroids, McGwire failed to be forthright at the Congressional hearings on steroids in baseball. That's one of the biggest reasons why he's not in and why he doesn't deserve to be in.[/quote]

yeah well im sure if they had congressional hearings for pine tar and spitballs the players wouldnt have admitted it either. thats human nature. you can fault him for cheating, but not for lying about it and trying to cover his ass.
 
Who are the dickwad voters who didn't vote for Gwynn? They should have their privileges revoked. He is a top 5 hitter of all time and he won like 5 gold gloves. It should have been mandatory to vote him in - I'd love to hear a rational reason why he wasn't voted for.
 
Just read this on one of the sports blogs... IT boggles the mind that Ripken got more votes than Gwynn.

How could Cal Ripken be worse you may ask? Well perhaps if he had just played 155 games per year instead of 162, he wouldn't have been.....

1) A below average fielder, who really shouldn't have been a shortstop at all and was given two undeserved Gold Glove awards simply because the press loved him.

2) A .276 lifetime hitter, which isn't saying very much considering that the league average throughout his career was .262.

3) A "power hitter" who couldn't hit over 30 dingers more than once in his career.

4) One of the slowest shortstops alive...

5) Incapable of playing more than two Hall of Fame caliber seasons in a career spanning 21 years (1983 & 1991)

I mean - besides the Iron Man record and his popularity, there's nothing all that special about Cal Ripken Jr.

Just like I don't consider Mike Piazza a real Catcher, I don't consider Cal Ripken Jr. a real shortstop. To me, he should have been a third baseman. What kind of shortstop steals 36 bases in 21 seasons?

If he was a third baseman, his offensive numbers would still be above average - but guys like Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews & Harmon Killebrew would completely blow him out of the water. Defensively speaking, Cal gets blown out of the water as a third basemen by guys like Mike Schmidt, Brooks Robinson and Ken Caminiti, and utterly destroyed as a shortstop by the likes of Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel and Luis Aparacio. Based upon his lifetime achievements both offensively and defensively, I don't see any reason why Cal should be considered a shoe in for the Hall while Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy & Gil Hodges have to sit on the sidelines.

In essence, what I'm saying is this: the Iron Man record is one of the coolest records in all of sports, and that alone should get Cal into the Hall of Fame. However in the end, I think it's important to realize that Mr Ripken is extremely overated. He's definitely not one of the best 50 baseball players in history (perhaps he sneaks into the top 100), and is indeed not even close to the best player in this round of Hall of Famers. Surely Tony Gwynn - with 3 more gold glove awards, 8 more batting titles, 283 more stolen bases and a career batting average more than .60 points higher - is more deserving of this honor. So why shouldn't every sportswriter vote for him? Huh Beezer?
 
yes ripkin is over rated but he does deserve to be in the hall...regardless of macs juicing he doesn't deserve to be in the hall. a .263 career hitter does not belong in the hall. If he gets voted in, then so shouldn't jim rice
 
Hooray Ripken! He was a great player, i watched him play a few times and was even there at his second to last game.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Hall of Fame in every sport is a joke considering politics and favoritism play a bigger role than most realize.[/QUOTE]

Bingo, bebe. Which is why none of this self-adulating bullshit matters, ultimately. In *any* sport.

And I say that as a HUGE fan of Pete Rose, but one who realizes that the Hall of Fame is just a meaningless title bestowed by much bickering and politicking. It's like American Idol but without the obnoxious product placement.
 
Good to see Ripken in it.

For those who say he doesn't deserve it. He was an above average player that didn't miss a game for 18 years. I think he deserves it. If you disagree become a major leaguer, and do what he did then tell me its not hard.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Who are the dickwad voters who didn't vote for Gwynn? They should have their privileges revoked. He is a top 5 hitter of all time and he won like 5 gold gloves. It should have been mandatory to vote him in - I'd love to hear a rational reason why he wasn't voted for.[/QUOTE]


well from what I hear neither of them were going to be unanimous because there was never a unanimous player to go into the hall. Not even the greats of old like Cobb, Ruth, Wagner etc were elected unanimously. Its just the way it is.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Cobb was the greatest ever. I'm just sayin'.

EDIT: And apparently my gf shares a birthday with him. That's just awesome. :cool::lol:[/QUOTE]



ask her if you could call her Ty on her bday?
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']ask her if you could call her Ty on her bday?[/QUOTE] She actually works with a guy name Ty, at the radio station. Well, not "with", but they both work there, on different days. :lol:
 
If I had a vote, I'd vote for McGwire. Do I think he cheated? Probably. Do I have proof? Nope. Do I think Ripken or Gwynn cheated? Probably not. Do I have proof they didn't cheat? Nope. The fact is, McGwire played ball in an era of lax testing and irresponsible management. Should we throw out all votes from that era of baseball because people might have been cheating? I'd vote McGwire in as a representative player of his era. Nobody complains that guys who pitched in the "dead ball" era cheated. It is the way the game was played then. Big Mac deserves his spot in the Hall.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']well from what I hear neither of them were going to be unanimous because there was never a unanimous player to go into the hall. Not even the greats of old like Cobb, Ruth, Wagner etc were elected unanimously. Its just the way it is.[/quote]

I know - and it's just silly. There is no rational reason to not vote for him. There's no debate about it - he is a Hall of Famer. If you have the responsibility of voting someone in you should be able to recognize someone like Gwynn belongs there no matter if it's his first year of eligibility or not. That's not a real reason to not vote for someone.
 
I think too many players are in the Hall of Fame. Has there been any time in which no players in the same ballot were voted in the Hall?
 
I think there have been like 5 years where no one got in and there are only about 250 players who have been elected which is only like 3-4 per year on average since the Hall of Fame started back in the 30s (but it also included players who played prior to that so it's more like a 2-3 player per year average). That's practically nothing when you think that there are like 800 players per year in the major leagues... so like 0.3% of all players make it in.
 
[quote name='Mr.Answer']Just read this on one of the sports blogs... IT boggles the mind that Ripken got more votes than Gwynn.

How could Cal Ripken be worse you may ask? Well perhaps if he had just played 155 games per year instead of 162, he wouldn't have been.....

1) A below average fielder, who really shouldn't have been a shortstop at all and was given two undeserved Gold Glove awards simply because the press loved him.

2) A .276 lifetime hitter, which isn't saying very much considering that the league average throughout his career was .262.

3) A "power hitter" who couldn't hit over 30 dingers more than once in his career.

4) One of the slowest shortstops alive...

5) Incapable of playing more than two Hall of Fame caliber seasons in a career spanning 21 years (1983 & 1991)

I mean - besides the Iron Man record and his popularity, there's nothing all that special about Cal Ripken Jr.

Just like I don't consider Mike Piazza a real Catcher, I don't consider Cal Ripken Jr. a real shortstop. To me, he should have been a third baseman. What kind of shortstop steals 36 bases in 21 seasons?

If he was a third baseman, his offensive numbers would still be above average - but guys like Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews & Harmon Killebrew would completely blow him out of the water. Defensively speaking, Cal gets blown out of the water as a third basemen by guys like Mike Schmidt, Brooks Robinson and Ken Caminiti, and utterly destroyed as a shortstop by the likes of Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel and Luis Aparacio. Based upon his lifetime achievements both offensively and defensively, I don't see any reason why Cal should be considered a shoe in for the Hall while Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy & Gil Hodges have to sit on the sidelines.

In essence, what I'm saying is this: the Iron Man record is one of the coolest records in all of sports, and that alone should get Cal into the Hall of Fame. However in the end, I think it's important to realize that Mr Ripken is extremely overated. He's definitely not one of the best 50 baseball players in history (perhaps he sneaks into the top 100), and is indeed not even close to the best player in this round of Hall of Famers. Surely Tony Gwynn - with 3 more gold glove awards, 8 more batting titles, 283 more stolen bases and a career batting average more than .60 points higher - is more deserving of this honor. So why shouldn't every sportswriter vote for him? Huh Beezer?[/quote]

The key though is that Ripken was doing this back when shortstops over 6 foot tall where not the norm and ones who could hit 20 dingers were even rarer. He was a shortstop, not a right fielder. We have been spoiled the last 10 years by A-Rod, Jeter, Garciaparra, Tejada, etc.
 
Do you really think the Hall of Fame should be populated by "above average" players?

And the streak was a farce. Once the media caught on that the record could be broken(years before it was), no manager was going to NOT play him and look like a bad guy.


[quote name='CitizenB']Good to see Ripken in it.

For those who say he doesn't deserve it. He was an above average player that didn't miss a game for 18 years. I think he deserves it. If you disagree become a major leaguer, and do what he did then tell me its not hard.[/QUOTE]
 
You can't use that funny math. How many of those players are the SAME every year???

[quote name='javeryh']I think there have been like 5 years where no one got in and there are only about 250 players who have been elected which is only like 3-4 per year on average since the Hall of Fame started back in the 30s (but it also included players who played prior to that so it's more like a 2-3 player per year average). That's practically nothing when you think that there are like 800 players per year in the major leagues... so like 0.3% of all players make it in.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='hufferstl']You can't use that funny math. How many of those players are the SAME every year???[/quote]

oops. um yeah.... I wonder if I can dig up the number of people who have played in the majors...
 
[quote name='Mr.Answer']Just read this on one of the sports blogs... IT boggles the mind that Ripken got more votes than Gwynn.

How could Cal Ripken be worse you may ask? Well perhaps if he had just played 155 games per year instead of 162, he wouldn't have been.....

1) A below average fielder, who really shouldn't have been a shortstop at all and was given two undeserved Gold Glove awards simply because the press loved him.

2) A .276 lifetime hitter, which isn't saying very much considering that the league average throughout his career was .262.

3) A "power hitter" who couldn't hit over 30 dingers more than once in his career.

4) One of the slowest shortstops alive...

5) Incapable of playing more than two Hall of Fame caliber seasons in a career spanning 21 years (1983 & 1991)

I mean - besides the Iron Man record and his popularity, there's nothing all that special about Cal Ripken Jr.

Just like I don't consider Mike Piazza a real Catcher, I don't consider Cal Ripken Jr. a real shortstop. To me, he should have been a third baseman. What kind of shortstop steals 36 bases in 21 seasons?

If he was a third baseman, his offensive numbers would still be above average - but guys like Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews & Harmon Killebrew would completely blow him out of the water. Defensively speaking, Cal gets blown out of the water as a third basemen by guys like Mike Schmidt, Brooks Robinson and Ken Caminiti, and utterly destroyed as a shortstop by the likes of Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel and Luis Aparacio. Based upon his lifetime achievements both offensively and defensively, I don't see any reason why Cal should be considered a shoe in for the Hall while Andre Dawson, Dale Murphy & Gil Hodges have to sit on the sidelines.

In essence, what I'm saying is this: the Iron Man record is one of the coolest records in all of sports, and that alone should get Cal into the Hall of Fame. However in the end, I think it's important to realize that Mr Ripken is extremely overated. He's definitely not one of the best 50 baseball players in history (perhaps he sneaks into the top 100), and is indeed not even close to the best player in this round of Hall of Famers. Surely Tony Gwynn - with 3 more gold glove awards, 8 more batting titles, 283 more stolen bases and a career batting average more than .60 points higher - is more deserving of this honor. So why shouldn't every sportswriter vote for him? Huh Beezer?[/QUOTE]

If Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver cant get a unanimous vote than gwynn will never get it. i bet you ripken got more of the votes because of his games played record. thats really it.

as for ripken...sure he was just average but he helped predefined the power hitting SS..and it lies in what we have today with A-Slob and the others.

as for the HOFs in waiting..some of them should be getting as next years first ballots are weak. c'mon Stan Javier?
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']If Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver cant get a unanimous vote than gwynn will never get it.[/quote]

If I were starting an all-time team I'd take Gwynn before either Seaver or Ryan but that's just me. My measuring stick will be whether Roger Clemens gets a unanimous vote - it is unthinkable that someone wouldn't vote him.
 
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