Road to Wrestlemania that points at the Wrestlemania sign Wrestlemania XXVIII thread
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I think it's kind of sad that this whole Undertaker HHH feud ever started. I wish it could have been between taker and someone from that era, back when he was still a character rather than just some goth looking dude. It's just that there aren't many of those guys left, let alone in the WWE. Mark Calaway was tombstoning guys before anyone had ever heard of Hunter Hearst Helmsley.
[quote name='Clak']I think it's kind of sad that this whole Undertaker HHH feud ever started. I wish it could have been between taker and someone from that era, back when he was still a character rather than just some goth looking dude. It's just that there aren't many of those guys left, let alone in the WWE. Mark Calaway was tombstoning guys before anyone had ever heard of Hunter Hearst Helmsley.[/QUOTE]
... for like 5 years.
Considering HHH debuted with WW(F)E 17 years ago, they're pretty close.
... for like 5 years.
Considering HHH debuted with WW(F)E 17 years ago, they're pretty close.
007
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[quote name='masked lemon']I'm not sure what some of you expected or wanted from HHH Taker. It was a HIAC match, of course weapons were going to be the focal point of the match. It was slow paced because Taker can't work like he used to, but it still had all of the big spots you would expect, and it told a story, something that only a couple other matches did last night. If there wasn't chairshots there would have been nothing but rest holds and punching and kicking... is that what you guys wanted?[/QUOTE]
I wanted a match that made the HiaC stipulation relevant. That was a streetfight that happened to have a cage around it.
I understand that it's not 1998 and that both guys are close to 50 years old, but I assumed the stipulation would have some impact on the match.
I wanted a match that made the HiaC stipulation relevant. That was a streetfight that happened to have a cage around it.
I understand that it's not 1998 and that both guys are close to 50 years old, but I assumed the stipulation would have some impact on the match.
I'd go so far as to say that Punk/Jericho had better wrestling but less story and intensity than Punk/Cena at MitB. Dead crowd didn't help.
20-0 was rather underwhelming, but Taker just can't do it like he usedtacould. The ramp hug kind of ruined it for me. Match wise, looking back I think the story was basically HHH wanting to tear him apart with HBK trying to keep everyone "safe". The lack of commentary on the submission hold to HBK broke that storyline however. It just made for a really confusing moment. All in all, not a very fitting end which makes me believe that it isn't the end. Which is a bummer because Taker is basically done in terms of a high performance worker and HHH does more in a suit than in his leather panties these days. UT's entrance was rather underwhelming too.
The GM match was actually fun to watch with lots of chaos going on and nothing makes for a fun match quite like midget tossing. The dick kick was part of some story arc that I don't care about so it made for a rather ridiculous ending that didn't need to happen. Santino actually appeared to be the toughest guy in the ring despite having ripped apart a crab with a sock not 10 minutes earlier.
That was kind of a crappy crowd through the whole thing though. Other than the "yay - boo" thing while HHH and Taker were trading punches, they were almost a non-factor through the whole thing.
20-0 was rather underwhelming, but Taker just can't do it like he usedtacould. The ramp hug kind of ruined it for me. Match wise, looking back I think the story was basically HHH wanting to tear him apart with HBK trying to keep everyone "safe". The lack of commentary on the submission hold to HBK broke that storyline however. It just made for a really confusing moment. All in all, not a very fitting end which makes me believe that it isn't the end. Which is a bummer because Taker is basically done in terms of a high performance worker and HHH does more in a suit than in his leather panties these days. UT's entrance was rather underwhelming too.
The GM match was actually fun to watch with lots of chaos going on and nothing makes for a fun match quite like midget tossing. The dick kick was part of some story arc that I don't care about so it made for a rather ridiculous ending that didn't need to happen. Santino actually appeared to be the toughest guy in the ring despite having ripped apart a crab with a sock not 10 minutes earlier.
That was kind of a crappy crowd through the whole thing though. Other than the "yay - boo" thing while HHH and Taker were trading punches, they were almost a non-factor through the whole thing.
masked lemon
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[quote name='007']I wanted a match that made the HiaC stipulation relevant. That was a streetfight that happened to have a cage around it.
I understand that it's not 1998 and that both guys are close to 50 years old, but I assumed the stipulation would have some impact on the match.[/QUOTE]
So you wanted them throwing each other into the cell for 5-10 minutes straight rather than chairshots? I would think that would be even more boring. Especially since this being PG era, there wouldn't be any blood. And they damn sure weren't going to be climbing the cell. So I guess I'm still confused as to what people were expecting from this match that they feel they didn't get.
I understand that it's not 1998 and that both guys are close to 50 years old, but I assumed the stipulation would have some impact on the match.[/QUOTE]
So you wanted them throwing each other into the cell for 5-10 minutes straight rather than chairshots? I would think that would be even more boring. Especially since this being PG era, there wouldn't be any blood. And they damn sure weren't going to be climbing the cell. So I guess I'm still confused as to what people were expecting from this match that they feel they didn't get.
masked lemon
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I think his last match will be at Survivor Series, not WM. He debuted at a Survivor Series, so it seems fitting. Let the streak stand at 20-0.
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I was a fan of WWF in the old days so this was the first PPV i actually paid to watch ( the hype got me damn you Vince) and was overall disappointed. I liked the UT Triple H HITC match considering what those guys can do now. I wasnt expecting them to go on top of the cell anymore. I agree with Puple Flames about the main event. I was shocked actually the Rock won. Doesnt make sense for a guy who isnt even part time to win against the franchise wrestler. I was a big fan of the WWF in its heyday but WWE shouldnt have had Cena job to Rock.
007
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[quote name='masked lemon']So you wanted them throwing each other into the cell for 5-10 minutes straight rather than chairshots? I would think that would be even more boring. Especially since this being PG era, there wouldn't be any blood. And they damn sure weren't going to be climbing the cell. So I guess I'm still confused as to what people were expecting from this match that they feel they didn't get.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's totally a thing I said. Really.
One, them using the cell instead of chairs would be boring as
, especially because that's what the first 5-10 minutes of the match already was.
Two, you're missing the point... expectations aside, my point is that there was zero reason for this to be a HiaC match if that's what they had planned. All it ended up being was a nice bullet-point for the marketing. If you took that exact match and gave it a streetfight, regular cage, or simple No-DQ stipulation... what would make it different? I admit, I'm still one of those HiaC purists, where I think it needs to be used sparingly and only when there's a purpose. They weren't keeping anyone out. No one was trying to get out of the match. The ref got knocked out and replaced quickly. It wasn't an all-out bloody grudge match. It just... it was just a match that happened to be enclosed in a fence. I get that it doesn't gel with current day WWE, but I expected more from the three men involved. All told, I witnessed a broken down looking man getting repeatedly hit with a chair while the referee cried in a corner and a greatest hits package of moves. Putting that inside HiaC doesn't magically make it special for me.
Yeah, that's totally a thing I said. Really.
One, them using the cell instead of chairs would be boring as
, especially because that's what the first 5-10 minutes of the match already was. Two, you're missing the point... expectations aside, my point is that there was zero reason for this to be a HiaC match if that's what they had planned. All it ended up being was a nice bullet-point for the marketing. If you took that exact match and gave it a streetfight, regular cage, or simple No-DQ stipulation... what would make it different? I admit, I'm still one of those HiaC purists, where I think it needs to be used sparingly and only when there's a purpose. They weren't keeping anyone out. No one was trying to get out of the match. The ref got knocked out and replaced quickly. It wasn't an all-out bloody grudge match. It just... it was just a match that happened to be enclosed in a fence. I get that it doesn't gel with current day WWE, but I expected more from the three men involved. All told, I witnessed a broken down looking man getting repeatedly hit with a chair while the referee cried in a corner and a greatest hits package of moves. Putting that inside HiaC doesn't magically make it special for me.
[quote name='MrNEWZ']... for like 5 years.
Considering HHH debuted with WW(F)E 17 years ago, they're pretty close.[/QUOTE]
And plenty had changed in those five or so years. The guys came into the WWF at different "eras" if you want to call it that. HHH's biggest time was the attitude era, with Rock and Austin etc. That wasn't Taker's era, that was the beginning of, what I think, was the worst time for that character, when they eventually turned him into nothing more than some tatted up biker.
Problem is that most of the guys that debuted around 1990 with him are either dead or retired by now.
Considering HHH debuted with WW(F)E 17 years ago, they're pretty close.[/QUOTE]
And plenty had changed in those five or so years. The guys came into the WWF at different "eras" if you want to call it that. HHH's biggest time was the attitude era, with Rock and Austin etc. That wasn't Taker's era, that was the beginning of, what I think, was the worst time for that character, when they eventually turned him into nothing more than some tatted up biker.
Problem is that most of the guys that debuted around 1990 with him are either dead or retired by now.
I understand what everyone's saying. I have come to a place, as a wrasslin fan, where I have zero expectations of WWE to use some brains. Danielson jobbing in under 30 seconds is awful—but he's still employed and making WWE money. That's really the only thing I care about: that people like Danielson, Punk, etc. earn big money—because I don't want to see them end up a joke like, say, Virgil, Hacksaw, and other guys who perform in their fifties to earn a paycheck. That shit is depressing.
Are we really critiquing The Rock as a wrassler? I have never been impressed with his ring work. He's not like Steve Austin where he had a solid foundation under his gimmick. The Rock arguably laid the groundwork for WWE's "five moves of doom" ring style—and is the man WWE used to transition from pro wrestling to sports entertainment. Rock has never been a wrassler. Not even in his "Die Rocky Die" blue-chipper days or Nation of Dominaton days. He's always been an entertainer.
And I'm not sure what's worse between Rock's Shitshooter or Cena's ShitTF.
Are we really critiquing The Rock as a wrassler? I have never been impressed with his ring work. He's not like Steve Austin where he had a solid foundation under his gimmick. The Rock arguably laid the groundwork for WWE's "five moves of doom" ring style—and is the man WWE used to transition from pro wrestling to sports entertainment. Rock has never been a wrassler. Not even in his "Die Rocky Die" blue-chipper days or Nation of Dominaton days. He's always been an entertainer.
And I'm not sure what's worse between Rock's Shitshooter or Cena's ShitTF.
has WWE given any hints when WWE network is coming out was april 1 but nope...
heard oct 31 but dont know
i cant belive people still spend 50 to 60 on ppvs... yea maybe 20 years ago when it was only one once a week and you had to wait a week to see who won but come on PPV are not even worth 20 anymore...
i think that is why almost all of the PPVS will be free on the wwe network (last i heard).. rumble. WM.summer and SS will still be pay to see
heard oct 31 but dont know
i cant belive people still spend 50 to 60 on ppvs... yea maybe 20 years ago when it was only one once a week and you had to wait a week to see who won but come on PPV are not even worth 20 anymore...
i think that is why almost all of the PPVS will be free on the wwe network (last i heard).. rumble. WM.summer and SS will still be pay to see
metaphysicalstyles
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[quote name='Chase']And I'm not sure what's worse between Rock's Shitshooter or Cena's ShitTF.[/QUOTE]
Those STFs were damn ugly. Somewhere backstage, Regal was crying.
Those STFs were damn ugly. Somewhere backstage, Regal was crying.
mykevermin
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Sounds like I made the right decision to go to a concert last night then, even if I was hungover as could be this morning, and my ears are still ringing.
masked lemon
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[quote name='007']Yeah, that's totally a thing I said. Really.
One, them using the cell instead of chairs would be boring as, especially because that's what the first 5-10 minutes of the match already was.
Two, you're missing the point... expectations aside, my point is that there was zero reason for this to be a HiaC match if that's what they had planned. All it ended up being was a nice bullet-point for the marketing. If you took that exact match and gave it a streetfight, regular cage, or simple No-DQ stipulation... what would make it different? I admit, I'm still one of those HiaC purists, where I think it needs to be used sparingly and only when there's a purpose. They weren't keeping anyone out. No one was trying to get out of the match. The ref got knocked out and replaced quickly. It wasn't an all-out bloody grudge match. It just... it was just a match that happened to be enclosed in a fence. I get that it doesn't gel with current day WWE, but I expected more from the three men involved. All told, I witnessed a broken down looking man getting repeatedly hit with a chair while the referee cried in a corner and a greatest hits package of moves. Putting that inside HiaC doesn't magically make it special for me.[/QUOTE]
I get what you are saying, but what exactly did you want them to do with the cell? You say you wanted the cell used more in the match, what other way could it have been used besides as a weapon, because like I said, you surely don't expect them to climb it.
I don't think it needed to be a hiac match either, but for different reasons. I don't think at this point an Undertaker Wrestlemania match needs any extra gimmicks added to it. The streak is more than enough to make it a compelling match.
It's been pretty much established that normal wrestling isn't enough to beat UT, so I feel weapons are fine in the match. Neither of these men can put on technical clinics, so we get a hardcore style match, and I'm fine with that.
You're not wrong for not liking the match, that's your opinion. I just felt like opening a debate about what more you would have liked to have seen. I personally thought the match was great, but I would have liked to have seen a Last Ride, and I would have done away with the ref run in. More finisher reversals would have been good also.
One, them using the cell instead of chairs would be boring as
, especially because that's what the first 5-10 minutes of the match already was. Two, you're missing the point... expectations aside, my point is that there was zero reason for this to be a HiaC match if that's what they had planned. All it ended up being was a nice bullet-point for the marketing. If you took that exact match and gave it a streetfight, regular cage, or simple No-DQ stipulation... what would make it different? I admit, I'm still one of those HiaC purists, where I think it needs to be used sparingly and only when there's a purpose. They weren't keeping anyone out. No one was trying to get out of the match. The ref got knocked out and replaced quickly. It wasn't an all-out bloody grudge match. It just... it was just a match that happened to be enclosed in a fence. I get that it doesn't gel with current day WWE, but I expected more from the three men involved. All told, I witnessed a broken down looking man getting repeatedly hit with a chair while the referee cried in a corner and a greatest hits package of moves. Putting that inside HiaC doesn't magically make it special for me.[/QUOTE]
I get what you are saying, but what exactly did you want them to do with the cell? You say you wanted the cell used more in the match, what other way could it have been used besides as a weapon, because like I said, you surely don't expect them to climb it.
I don't think it needed to be a hiac match either, but for different reasons. I don't think at this point an Undertaker Wrestlemania match needs any extra gimmicks added to it. The streak is more than enough to make it a compelling match.
It's been pretty much established that normal wrestling isn't enough to beat UT, so I feel weapons are fine in the match. Neither of these men can put on technical clinics, so we get a hardcore style match, and I'm fine with that.
You're not wrong for not liking the match, that's your opinion. I just felt like opening a debate about what more you would have liked to have seen. I personally thought the match was great, but I would have liked to have seen a Last Ride, and I would have done away with the ref run in. More finisher reversals would have been good also.
OnyxPrimal
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THQ has announced a WWE 12 Wrestlemania edition for the UK. Looks like it includes all DLC.
mykevermin
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007
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[quote name='masked lemon']I get what you are saying, but what exactly did you want them to do with the cell? You say you wanted the cell used more in the match, what other way could it have been used besides as a weapon, because like I said, you surely don't expect them to climb it.
I don't think it needed to be a hiac match either, but for different reasons. I don't think at this point an Undertaker Wrestlemania match needs any extra gimmicks added to it. The streak is more than enough to make it a compelling match.
It's been pretty much established that normal wrestling isn't enough to beat UT, so I feel weapons are fine in the match. Neither of these men can put on technical clinics, so we get a hardcore style match, and I'm fine with that.
You're not wrong for not liking the match, that's your opinion. I just felt like opening a debate about what more you would have liked to have seen. I personally thought the match was great, but I would have liked to have seen a Last Ride, and I would have done away with the ref run in. More finisher reversals would have been good also.[/QUOTE]
That's fair. It's tough to armchair book it from the perspective of not wanting it to be HiaC anyway, but I would have at least gone outside. A nice 'driven through a panel' spot would've worked for me, possibly leading to the destruction of the (shockingly still standing by the end of the event) Spanish announce table. Taking that further, if they're outside, it's pretty easy and not extremely dangerous to do a table spot that doesn't involve climbing all the way up, similar to the first HiaC match. Working that into the context of the match, HHH beats Taker down, somehow ends up driving him through the cage wall. Taker no sells, sits up, HHH's escape is blocked by the fallen cage portion on one side and Taker on the other, so he starts climbing up. Gets a few feet up, Taker pulls him off and through the annouce table. HHH gets time to recover because Michaels won't let Taker near him. The rest of the match can play out the same way.
The flipside of that idea would be to have Michaels be behind whoever goes through the cage, leading to a series of pinfalls, submissions, whatever, where there just isn't a ref. Build it so each man has technically 'won' a number of falls without winning the match.
I'm pulling these out of my ass, so I won't even claim they're good ideas. At the very least, though, they make use of the caged environment.
I agree that the matches don't need gimmicks, but my armchair booking idea last night was to have made it a casket match. Same build, but now you have the added 'oomph' of Taker reminding both Michaels and HHH that it's the match which cost HBK four years of his career, and almost ended it completely. If you're going to work with the history of these men, it's a way to use a gimmick that actually means something. It adds more drama to it, because it wouldn't just be Michaels helping a friend to do what he couldn't... it'd be him remembering just how much Taker has cost him.
Anyway, it was an okay match. What baffles me is how much praise it seems to be getting. I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on this one, but I didn't think it was that special. I ranted about it already, but the 'end of an era' thing bugged me, since it seemed like WWE was promoting it like there was so much on the line... but they never bothered to tell us what. Taker loses, the Streak ends. Fine. HHH loses, and... uh... yeah. Overall, I'm disappointed that they went with repeats instead of laying out a unique match that really fit the occassion.
I don't think it needed to be a hiac match either, but for different reasons. I don't think at this point an Undertaker Wrestlemania match needs any extra gimmicks added to it. The streak is more than enough to make it a compelling match.
It's been pretty much established that normal wrestling isn't enough to beat UT, so I feel weapons are fine in the match. Neither of these men can put on technical clinics, so we get a hardcore style match, and I'm fine with that.
You're not wrong for not liking the match, that's your opinion. I just felt like opening a debate about what more you would have liked to have seen. I personally thought the match was great, but I would have liked to have seen a Last Ride, and I would have done away with the ref run in. More finisher reversals would have been good also.[/QUOTE]
That's fair. It's tough to armchair book it from the perspective of not wanting it to be HiaC anyway, but I would have at least gone outside. A nice 'driven through a panel' spot would've worked for me, possibly leading to the destruction of the (shockingly still standing by the end of the event) Spanish announce table. Taking that further, if they're outside, it's pretty easy and not extremely dangerous to do a table spot that doesn't involve climbing all the way up, similar to the first HiaC match. Working that into the context of the match, HHH beats Taker down, somehow ends up driving him through the cage wall. Taker no sells, sits up, HHH's escape is blocked by the fallen cage portion on one side and Taker on the other, so he starts climbing up. Gets a few feet up, Taker pulls him off and through the annouce table. HHH gets time to recover because Michaels won't let Taker near him. The rest of the match can play out the same way.
The flipside of that idea would be to have Michaels be behind whoever goes through the cage, leading to a series of pinfalls, submissions, whatever, where there just isn't a ref. Build it so each man has technically 'won' a number of falls without winning the match.
I'm pulling these out of my ass, so I won't even claim they're good ideas. At the very least, though, they make use of the caged environment.
I agree that the matches don't need gimmicks, but my armchair booking idea last night was to have made it a casket match. Same build, but now you have the added 'oomph' of Taker reminding both Michaels and HHH that it's the match which cost HBK four years of his career, and almost ended it completely. If you're going to work with the history of these men, it's a way to use a gimmick that actually means something. It adds more drama to it, because it wouldn't just be Michaels helping a friend to do what he couldn't... it'd be him remembering just how much Taker has cost him.
Anyway, it was an okay match. What baffles me is how much praise it seems to be getting. I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on this one, but I didn't think it was that special. I ranted about it already, but the 'end of an era' thing bugged me, since it seemed like WWE was promoting it like there was so much on the line... but they never bothered to tell us what. Taker loses, the Streak ends. Fine. HHH loses, and... uh... yeah. Overall, I'm disappointed that they went with repeats instead of laying out a unique match that really fit the occassion.
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