Ron Paul's foreign policy.

Yeah, but how long do you think it would be before they were fighting again if we left tomorrow? That's my point, our forces being there have been the only thing that kept them from engaging each other again. Because the north knew we'd be involved if it tried anything. So yeah, wouldn't say it ended that well, especially since it didn't really end.
 
[quote name='Clak']Then they hijacked revolutionary history and imagery and tried to act like some modern day colonial patriots.[/QUOTE]

you mean revisioinist history?
nyuck nyuck nyuck
 
[quote name='nasum']you mean revisioinist history?
nyuck nyuck nyuck[/QUOTE]
Oh a wise guy eh?

261585-moe_howard_7_large.jpg
 
[quote name='Clak']I wouldn't even say the Korean war turned out well either since we're basically the only thing that keeps the north in check.[/QUOTE]

It didn't turn out perfect but SK did become a pretty decent place with a decent economy and a way better stance on rights issues than it's partner did. Just comparing the two is night and day, and yes if the US did leave I am not completely sure that it would lead back to war. Especially with some of the leaked cables from last year saying that even China is cutting off NK now. Honestly from what I understand of the current situation it seems China finally blinked and is willing to allow for a US friendly reunified Nk and SK with Seoul being the main anchor for the country. But the SK example is me taking a generally broad whack at foreign policy, a part of politics I am not really interested in nor read about a lot.
 
I don't what's more amusing. The fact that the OP thinks the military won't find someway to spend a trillion dollars whether we're at war or peace or that the money saved will go to equality measures.
 
[quote name='Knoell']But regardless, I would compare US human rights to any other country, not just the bad ones. But that wasn't the point. The point was the rest of the world hates us for our foreign policy. I say our foreign policy gives a lot of aid and stabilization to the rest of the world, and that it is widely ignored and taken for granted. Sure they can be pissed about what we do in Iraq, or the whole torture debacle and such but to hate us for it? You would think that our actions would bring armageddon, while countries like France, UK, Russia, China etc have in the past, and are currently struggling through the same type issues. And before you comment on how China isn't worth comparing to us, think of how they are one of 5 countries that are permantly on the UN Security Council holding a large amount of power (in the UN anyway).[/QUOTE]

I agree that helping AIDS victims in Africa is a good thing. But that isn't what we're hated for. We're hated for killing civilians with robots. We're hated for throwing people in black holes like Bagram and Guantanamo. We're hated for further destabilizing an entire region.
 
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[quote name='IRHari']I agree that helping AIDS victims in Africa is a good thing. But that isn't what we're hated for. We're hated for killing civilians with robots. We're hated for throwing people in black holes like Bagram and Guantanamo. We're hated for destabilizing an entire region.[/QUOTE]
To be fair to the US on this one, it was already destabilized when we got there. We just took British/Russian destabilization and upped the ante.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5339-2002Mar22?language=printer

During that time of Soviet occupation, regional military leaders in Afghanistan helped the U.S. smuggle books into the country. They demanded that the primers contain anti-Soviet passages. Children were taught to count with illustrations showing tanks, missiles and land mines, agency officials said. They acknowledged that at the time it also suited U.S. interests to stoke hatred of foreign invaders.
The military content was included to "stimulate resistance against invasion," explained Yaquib Roshan of Nebraska's Afghanistan center. "Even in January, the books were absolutely the same . . . pictures of bullets and Kalashnikovs and you name it."

During the Taliban era, censors purged human images from the books. One page from the texts of that period shows a resistance fighter with a bandolier and a Kalashnikov slung from his shoulder. The soldier's head is missing.

Above the soldier is a verse from the Koran. Below is a Pashtu tribute to the mujaheddin, who are described as obedient to Allah. Such men will sacrifice their wealth and life itself to impose Islamic law on the government, the text says.
Nothing could have possibly gone wrong with that strategy.
 
[quote name='depascal22']We're hated for selling Saddam the chemical weapons that he used on Iran. Nah, they hate us because we're Christian...[/QUOTE]

While I see what you are saying, I have no doubt that Christianity is a big component of the hatred.

All of the Abrahamic religions have a massive hardon for each other.
 
[quote name='camoor']While I see what you are saying, I have no doubt that Christianity is a big component of the hatred.

All of the Abrahamic religions have a massive hardon for each other.[/QUOTE]

Very true. It just seems like the right wants everyone to believe that the only reason for their hatred is that we collectively believe in Jesus.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Very true. It just seems like the right wants everyone to believe that the only reason for their hatred is that we collectively believe in Jesus.[/QUOTE]

The Right: blaming America for 9/11, while insisting those who highlight that our policies in the Middle East inflame hatred around the world are in league with radical extremist Moslem jihadists.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
 
I met a man like Ron Paul once. He smelled of urine, used an old "Dunkin Donuts" cup for spare change, and slept in the SEPTA station. He, too, spoke of how the world is fucked up, and that we should just, like, leave everyone the fuck alone, man. And get, like, government out of it, too.

That man could at least justify his ideology on the liter of rotgut in his belly.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']He smelled of urine, used an old "Dunkin Donuts" cup for spare change, and slept in the SEPTA station. He, too, spoke of how the world is fucked up, and that we should just, like, leave everyone the fuck alone, man. And get, like, government out of it, too.

That man could at least justify his ideology on the liter of rotgut in his belly.[/QUOTE]

In my defense, I didn't have access to a shower and those Dunkin Donuts cups are really really durable.
 
thrust said in another thread that all our problems would go away if we cloned Ron Paul and gave the Paul hivemind extra-constitutional powers.

Which goes just how even theoretical glibertarian governance runs on magical thinking.
 
[quote name='Msut77']thrust said in another thread that all our problems would go away if we cloned Ron Paul and gave the Paul hivemind extra-constitutional powers.[/QUOTE]

I envision them working just like Dr. Doom's doombots.

Why do the conservative politician to supervillian comparisons always work so damn well?
 
That's a rather presumptuous assertion...

I read the article, and was left a bit disappointed... if one starts from certain assumptions, it's easy to argue just about anything without making any profound connections or statements.
 
[quote name='BigT'] if one starts from certain assumptions, it's easy to argue just about anything without making any profound connections or statements.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Which is why Libertarianism is a such a bag of shit scented hot air.
 
I like what Ron Paul says, it makes sense and sounds sane. The problem is... no one talks about what that action in the right direction would be and I'm more interested in action or the promise of this action toward the right action. So far, I don't see any "change" in the right direction with what we have now other than more of the "wrong" direction. We really need a mass natural disaster or a serious change in the way we ALL think to get going in the right direction regardless of what politics there may be...
 
well, it wasn't the sentence where you use the word "action" 4 times as if it contained some meaning beyond whatever ambiguous deus ex machina you were trying to allude to.

don't give yourself as much credit as you do. your post is equivalent to a radio talk show caller who says "we just need to fix stuff."
 
I like what Harvey Dent says, it makes sense and sounds sane. The problem is... no one talks about what that action in the right direction would be and I'm more interested in action or the promise of this action toward the right action. So far, I don't see any "change" in the right direction with what we have now other than more of the "wrong" direction. We really need a mass natural disaster or a serious change in the way we ALL think to get going in the right direction regardless of what politics there may be...
 
[quote name='VipFREAK'] We really need a mass natural disaster or a serious change in the way we ALL think to get going in the right direction regardless of what politics there may be...[/QUOTE]

Didn't Ron Paul bring up the horrible disaster in Galveston when talking about getting rid of FEMA? You know the one where bodies had to be thrown in huge pits and then burned so we didn't have Dawn of the Dead up in that piece? Somehow that was much better than Katrina right? The federal government royally screwed up and somehow the death toll in New Orleans wasn't anything close to Galveston in 1900. Never mind that Ron Paul really doesn't know what he's talking about since the federal government spent millions to rebuild Galveston.

Nah. I'd much rather sit on my roof knowing that I'm about to die a horrible death from dehydration, malnutrition, exposure, or the plague instead of having my tax dollars go to a helicopter rescue and a crude shelter.
 
[quote name='Msut77']http://www.thenation.com/article/163672/charles-koch-friedrich-hayek-use-social-security[/QUOTE]

Hayek was not as laissez-faire as many who came before him, his colleagues, or those who came after him. In terms of political philosophy, he was comparatively statist. I can also show you a number of anarchists who advocate using social security under current conditions, so I'm left to conclude that the point of the story is that the Koch brothers are bad actors. Which isn't really disputed by me, they're oligarchs above all else.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Hayek was not as laissez-faire as many who came before him, his colleagues, or those who came after him. In terms of political philosophy, he was comparatively statist. I can also show you a number of anarchists who advocate using social security under current conditions, so I'm left to conclude that the point of the story is that the Koch brothers are bad actors. Which isn't really disputed by me, they're oligarchs above all else.[/QUOTE]
Very true about Hayek. Adam Smith proposed a social security-like program as well.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Hayek was not as laissez-faire as many who came before him, his colleagues, or those who came after him. In terms of political philosophy, he was comparatively statist. I can also show you a number of anarchists who advocate using social security under current conditions, so I'm left to conclude that the point of the story is that the Koch brothers are bad actors. Which isn't really disputed by me, they're oligarchs above all else.[/QUOTE]
Hayek did advocate for a minimum state, especially in vol 2 of Law Legislation and Liberty. However it is important to not that this was not the social security net he was advocating and the fact that he got it showed how philosophically and personally hollow both Koch and Hayek were. For the most part he advocated the basic level only for those who could not under almost any circumstances support themselves (think mentally disabled, orphans and certain people with physical ailments like quadriplegia or loss of limbs that kept people from working and the really advanced elderly). If it was not under these circumstances than no one should take any social services at all.

Secondly make nooo mistake about why he wanted the minimum social safety net. He had an almost irrational fear of what he called the tribal nation, namely a nation of mobs where people get together to influence others. He saw these as things such as religions and charities as these tribal entities. So he advocated a minimum income to protect against deprivation which in his mind torn people to these tribal agencies. But is against straight up income redistribution because it is totalitarian or offering aid to certain groups, such as the Native Americans or any group that receives these aids due to class/race/clan/occupation, an act he deems as not meeting his necessary clause (which in all his books he never really defined). In effect he is not actually worried about helping people, but rather he sees these things as protections against people choosing to go to a tribal society because of the harsh realities of capitalism.

Make no mistake, he was a total capitalist and believed in the system completely. His stances on social safety nets had less to do with statism, which he actually identified as a tribal society, and more to do with his fear of a tribal slide to totalitarianism. However this does not apply to him as his actions showed. He wasn't a statist at all, he just realized that when capitalism and a minimum state screw the bottom class, the bottom class will come knocking on the door with pitchforks.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']...he just realized that when capitalism and a minimum state screw the bottom class, the bottom class will come knocking on the door with pitchforks.[/QUOTE]
This is my impression of why laissez faire capitalists justify a redistribution of wealth. It's not for any altruistic reason, but for a minimum level of protection from the destruction they unleash on society.
 
He went to the "government with a gun to the head" metaphor over public roads.

'Scuse me while I pick my jaw up off the motherfucking floor.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']He went to the "government with a gun to the head" metaphor over public roads.

'Scuse me while I pick my jaw up off the motherfucking floor.[/QUOTE]
Not knowing much about Hayek, I was always under the impression that he wasn't one of the worst of the bunch. I guess I was wrong...not the first or last time I bet! lollers
 
that was Ron Paul who said that in msut's link, not Hayek. ;)

Given who is likely to be the beneficiaries of state-imposed violence, as we can see from the police response to the Occupy movements in multiple cities, it's about time we stopped letting Republicans use the "government gun to the citizens' heads" metaphor.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']that was Ron Paul who said that in msut's link, not Hayek. ;)

Given who is likely to be the beneficiaries of state-imposed violence, as we can see from the police response to the Occupy movements in multiple cities, it's about time we stopped letting Republicans use the "government gun to the citizens' heads" metaphor.[/QUOTE]
Ah...thanks for clarifying. I thought you were responding to cindersphere's post.

Now that I've watched the video, I'm surprised Paul went in the direction he did because I don't recall him using that particular metaphor before...or maybe he's been so full of crazy that I'm starting to forget. It's hard enough to keep track of all the crazy from the last couple months as it is. :lol:
 
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