RPG Thread #4 - Just in Time for Final Fantasy IV DS
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Rei no Otaku
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I heard it's been selling pretty well in the US though.
tiggerkiddo
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Doubtful. Was I the only person who felt a bit annoyed at the ending? That and all the Secret Reports soured my opinion a little so I sold it.
I felt annoyed anythime there was dialogue. That part put me to sleep.
"The World Ends With You" was okay. I also heard the game sold poorly in Japan, which I find surprising since the gameplay was new & fresh and the setting was right up their alley. Maybe the Japanese are getting tired of themselves.
"The World Ends With You" was okay. I also heard the game sold poorly in Japan, which I find surprising since the gameplay was new & fresh and the setting was right up their alley. Maybe the Japanese are getting tired of themselves.
StarKnightX
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[quote name='kainzero']For a STRATEGY game which places emphasis on terrain and army movement and skill synergy and well-thought out turn-based battles, it sure sucks when you can throw that all out the window because you levelled up more.
And unlike traditional RPGs where you can push into an area and leave if you're not strong enough, SRPGs you either win the battle or you die.[/quote]
[quote name='kainzero']Yeah. I know. I kinda like a clean SRPG like Vandal Hearts or Front Mission where you can't power level because there's no random battles. The difficulty is set. That whole levelling thing, I was referring to doing story battles straight up, which you can't do in most of them because they level faster than you. Even in Tactics Ogre, they make you do some intrasquad training just to get to the same level. But you can do it in most traditional RPGs, play the story straight through.[/quote]
I was just thinking about this earlier today. To compare FFT to Tactics Ogre both do require you to power level to some extent. In Tactics Ogre you only really need to level enough to keep your characters on par with the enemy. You could level more but it doesn't really matter that much , gets tedious , plus it helps keep some of the challenge in the game intact.
On the other hand , FFT basically forces you to do a lot of power leveling throughout the first chapter or the enemies early on will run you thru. But after the really tough first chapter the difficulty declines a lot more , so all that training you did early on tends to make you too strong. By late chapter 3 or early chapter 4 , it's almost impossible not to be a team of walking tanks unless it's your first time through the game and you don't know any better.
In either case , yeah being able to power level does take away from the strategic elements , but I think Tactics Ogre helps keep the balance better.
And unlike traditional RPGs where you can push into an area and leave if you're not strong enough, SRPGs you either win the battle or you die.[/quote]
[quote name='kainzero']Yeah. I know. I kinda like a clean SRPG like Vandal Hearts or Front Mission where you can't power level because there's no random battles. The difficulty is set. That whole levelling thing, I was referring to doing story battles straight up, which you can't do in most of them because they level faster than you. Even in Tactics Ogre, they make you do some intrasquad training just to get to the same level. But you can do it in most traditional RPGs, play the story straight through.[/quote]
I was just thinking about this earlier today. To compare FFT to Tactics Ogre both do require you to power level to some extent. In Tactics Ogre you only really need to level enough to keep your characters on par with the enemy. You could level more but it doesn't really matter that much , gets tedious , plus it helps keep some of the challenge in the game intact.
On the other hand , FFT basically forces you to do a lot of power leveling throughout the first chapter or the enemies early on will run you thru. But after the really tough first chapter the difficulty declines a lot more , so all that training you did early on tends to make you too strong. By late chapter 3 or early chapter 4 , it's almost impossible not to be a team of walking tanks unless it's your first time through the game and you don't know any better.
In either case , yeah being able to power level does take away from the strategic elements , but I think Tactics Ogre helps keep the balance better.
depascal22
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I was just checking out estarland.com to see if anyone traded in games last week and they have sealed copies of Grandia II for the DC.
http://www.estarland.com/SegaDreamcast.product.799.html
If anyone wants to pony up $80, they're all yours. I got a mint copy off of Goozex for 200 points.
http://www.estarland.com/SegaDreamcast.product.799.html
If anyone wants to pony up $80, they're all yours. I got a mint copy off of Goozex for 200 points.
kainzero
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[quote name='DQT']FFT kicked my ass all over the place. I almost regretted buying the game until I gave it a fair shake. Interestingly, I've heard the Japanese version is even harder.[/quote]
[quote name='StarKnightX']I was just thinking about this earlier today. To compare FFT to Tactics Ogre both do require you to power level to some extent. In Tactics Ogre you only really need to level enough to keep your characters on par with the enemy. You could level more but it doesn't really matter that much , gets tedious , plus it helps keep some of the challenge in the game intact.
On the other hand , FFT basically forces you to do a lot of power leveling throughout the first chapter or the enemies early on will run you thru. But after the really tough first chapter the difficulty declines a lot more , so all that training you did early on tends to make you too strong. By late chapter 3 or early chapter 4 , it's almost impossible not to be a team of walking tanks unless it's your first time through the game and you don't know any better.
In either case , yeah being able to power level does take away from the strategic elements , but I think Tactics Ogre helps keep the balance better.[/quote]
I wanna say that FFT is not that hard, but that's because I learned about the system. The game is all about stat growth and the monks have really good stat growth, whereas knights have really poor stat growth. There's also a ridiculous amount of useless skills; Charge + 20? Really now. Also there's that really cool part where spells miss your own characters. But seriously, a party of all monks should be able to clean up the game real easy, maybe throw in a chemist like Mustadio in. Also, even if you PL, random battles will always match your highest characters level; really annoying when you bump into 8 chocobos who use Choco Meteor.
My biggest gripe about TO was the intrasquad training. It was really boring. I just wanna get on with the game but I was always bogged down by this. IIRC all the enemies had built in counterattack, so if you were underlevelled you would always get hit for more damage than you dealt... not really cool.
[quote name='StarKnightX']I was just thinking about this earlier today. To compare FFT to Tactics Ogre both do require you to power level to some extent. In Tactics Ogre you only really need to level enough to keep your characters on par with the enemy. You could level more but it doesn't really matter that much , gets tedious , plus it helps keep some of the challenge in the game intact.
On the other hand , FFT basically forces you to do a lot of power leveling throughout the first chapter or the enemies early on will run you thru. But after the really tough first chapter the difficulty declines a lot more , so all that training you did early on tends to make you too strong. By late chapter 3 or early chapter 4 , it's almost impossible not to be a team of walking tanks unless it's your first time through the game and you don't know any better.
In either case , yeah being able to power level does take away from the strategic elements , but I think Tactics Ogre helps keep the balance better.[/quote]
I wanna say that FFT is not that hard, but that's because I learned about the system. The game is all about stat growth and the monks have really good stat growth, whereas knights have really poor stat growth. There's also a ridiculous amount of useless skills; Charge + 20? Really now. Also there's that really cool part where spells miss your own characters. But seriously, a party of all monks should be able to clean up the game real easy, maybe throw in a chemist like Mustadio in. Also, even if you PL, random battles will always match your highest characters level; really annoying when you bump into 8 chocobos who use Choco Meteor.
My biggest gripe about TO was the intrasquad training. It was really boring. I just wanna get on with the game but I was always bogged down by this. IIRC all the enemies had built in counterattack, so if you were underlevelled you would always get hit for more damage than you dealt... not really cool.
willardhaven
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That's why I liked Disgaea. It let you decrease or increase enemy levels to your liking so the game always had an appropriate difficulty.
Man, 
that stupid Dark Elf in FF IV DS.
I forgot that he's weak to fire so I didn't have Yang bring two fire claws, I forgot that he changes into a dragon so I wasn't high enough level.
On the third try I got lucky and took him down thanks to Tellah sacrificing himself in a flurry of Firagas instead of healing my weak-ass party.
I'm now worried about the rest of the game. That stupid Evil Wall later on is going to rape me.
that stupid Dark Elf in FF IV DS. I forgot that he's weak to fire so I didn't have Yang bring two fire claws, I forgot that he changes into a dragon so I wasn't high enough level.
On the third try I got lucky and took him down thanks to Tellah sacrificing himself in a flurry of Firagas instead of healing my weak-ass party.
I'm now worried about the rest of the game. That stupid Evil Wall later on is going to rape me.
StarKnightX
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[quote name='DQT']FFT kicked my ass all over the place. I almost regretted buying the game until I gave it a fair shake. Interestingly, I've heard the Japanese version is even harder.[/quote]
I would be interested in seeing if that is true. I think I had FFT down to a science , and short of using a really crappy team , I knew exactly how to destroy everything. Only a few battles in the game always gave me a little bit of a hard time , such as the final battle(s) of chapter 3.
[quote name='kainzero']I wanna say that FFT is not that hard, but that's because I learned about the system. The game is all about stat growth and the monks have really good stat growth, whereas knights have really poor stat growth. There's also a ridiculous amount of useless skills; Charge + 20? Really now. Also there's that really cool part where spells miss your own characters. But seriously, a party of all monks should be able to clean up the game real easy, maybe throw in a chemist like Mustadio in. Also, even if you PL, random battles will always match your highest characters level; really annoying when you bump into 8 chocobos who use Choco Meteor.
My biggest gripe about TO was the intrasquad training. It was really boring. I just wanna get on with the game but I was always bogged down by this. IIRC all the enemies had built in counterattack, so if you were underlevelled you would always get hit for more damage than you dealt... not really cool.[/quote]
At least they give you skill options. It's up to you to decide whether they are useless or not. In that same vein , there are plenty of the "customization" style skills , such as equip bow , that are pretty useless , but are at least nice to have just for the sake of having them.
As for classes , monks are overly strong , but are partly balanced by the fact that it takes very little to kill them. Making the main characters such as Ramza monks though , and they become unstoppable killing machines. Knights are generally useless. There break skills are only good with classes that have ranged attacks , and otherwise don't have much going for them except for high ATT and HP.
High powered random battles at least kept the game fun and challenging , especially in the later chapters when you can easily mop up all the story battles. Chocobo battles in generally were always a pain in the ass , no matter what kind or level.
As for team variety , unless I was using a custom team , my final team pretty much always looked like
I would be interested in seeing if that is true. I think I had FFT down to a science , and short of using a really crappy team , I knew exactly how to destroy everything. Only a few battles in the game always gave me a little bit of a hard time , such as the final battle(s) of chapter 3.
[quote name='kainzero']I wanna say that FFT is not that hard, but that's because I learned about the system. The game is all about stat growth and the monks have really good stat growth, whereas knights have really poor stat growth. There's also a ridiculous amount of useless skills; Charge + 20? Really now. Also there's that really cool part where spells miss your own characters. But seriously, a party of all monks should be able to clean up the game real easy, maybe throw in a chemist like Mustadio in. Also, even if you PL, random battles will always match your highest characters level; really annoying when you bump into 8 chocobos who use Choco Meteor.
My biggest gripe about TO was the intrasquad training. It was really boring. I just wanna get on with the game but I was always bogged down by this. IIRC all the enemies had built in counterattack, so if you were underlevelled you would always get hit for more damage than you dealt... not really cool.[/quote]
At least they give you skill options. It's up to you to decide whether they are useless or not. In that same vein , there are plenty of the "customization" style skills , such as equip bow , that are pretty useless , but are at least nice to have just for the sake of having them.
As for classes , monks are overly strong , but are partly balanced by the fact that it takes very little to kill them. Making the main characters such as Ramza monks though , and they become unstoppable killing machines. Knights are generally useless. There break skills are only good with classes that have ranged attacks , and otherwise don't have much going for them except for high ATT and HP.
High powered random battles at least kept the game fun and challenging , especially in the later chapters when you can easily mop up all the story battles. Chocobo battles in generally were always a pain in the ass , no matter what kind or level.
As for team variety , unless I was using a custom team , my final team pretty much always looked like
Ramza as a Squire/Monk , Mustadio as a chemist , Beowulf as his Temple Knight , Worker 8 , and then either Meliodoul , Agrias , Reis , or Boco depending on how I'm feeling. Maybe Orlandu for shits and giggles.
Of course, now I remember that I hadn't unlocked Monks, Ninjas, or Lancers yet. 
I very much appreciate the difficulty of the random battles however. It never feels unfair because there is so much depth, and forces you to use a variety of strategies. On the downside, it made my battles last at least 30 minutes and even longer if I was trying to level up the weaker classes.
I very much appreciate the difficulty of the random battles however. It never feels unfair because there is so much depth, and forces you to use a variety of strategies. On the downside, it made my battles last at least 30 minutes and even longer if I was trying to level up the weaker classes.
[quote name='kainzero']I wanna say that FFT is not that hard, but that's because I learned about the system. The game is all about stat growth and the monks have really good stat growth, whereas knights have really poor stat growth. There's also a ridiculous amount of useless skills; Charge + 20? Really now. Also there's that really cool part where spells miss your own characters. But seriously, a party of all monks should be able to clean up the game real easy, maybe throw in a chemist like Mustadio in. Also, even if you PL, random battles will always match your highest characters level; really annoying when you bump into 8 chocobos who use Choco Meteor.
My biggest gripe about TO was the intrasquad training. It was really boring. I just wanna get on with the game but I was always bogged down by this. IIRC all the enemies had built in counterattack, so if you were underlevelled you would always get hit for more damage than you dealt... not really cool.[/QUOTE]
knight have decent stat growth. In fact it is a lot better than special class like holy knight. The most useful skills for kngiht is the equip armor. Now your monk not only have high HP but also high defend. Now black mage have really low non magic stat growth. Bard has the worst of all.
Only non human have counter attack, and most monster are not that powerful till the end of the game. Chocobos are bad but usually only 1 or 2 show up in a fight
My biggest gripe about TO was the intrasquad training. It was really boring. I just wanna get on with the game but I was always bogged down by this. IIRC all the enemies had built in counterattack, so if you were underlevelled you would always get hit for more damage than you dealt... not really cool.[/QUOTE]
knight have decent stat growth. In fact it is a lot better than special class like holy knight. The most useful skills for kngiht is the equip armor. Now your monk not only have high HP but also high defend. Now black mage have really low non magic stat growth. Bard has the worst of all.
Only non human have counter attack, and most monster are not that powerful till the end of the game. Chocobos are bad but usually only 1 or 2 show up in a fight
depascal22
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I know this is blasphemy but I liked Jeanne d'Arc much more than Final Fantasy Tactics. The gameplay mechanics were much better. Oh, and the class system is getting a little played out. If a guy joins my party and he's an archer, I don't want to play for another four hours just to teach him to be a Knight or Mage.
kainzero
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[quote name='willardhaven']That's why I liked Disgaea. It let you decrease or increase enemy levels to your liking so the game always had an appropriate difficulty.[/quote]
i wasn't a big fan of the classes in that game though... plus that game was all about grinding. i actually enjoyed it =)
[quote name='62t']knight have decent stat growth. In fact it is a lot better than special class like holy knight. The most useful skills for kngiht is the equip armor. Now your monk not only have high HP but also high defend. Now black mage have really low non magic stat growth. Bard has the worst of all.[/quote]
iirc there is no defend stat in FFT, it was all hp. and monks have awesome hp growth. they have slightly weaker physical attack growth but a lot higher speed growth.
i wasn't a big fan of the classes in that game though... plus that game was all about grinding. i actually enjoyed it =)
[quote name='62t']knight have decent stat growth. In fact it is a lot better than special class like holy knight. The most useful skills for kngiht is the equip armor. Now your monk not only have high HP but also high defend. Now black mage have really low non magic stat growth. Bard has the worst of all.[/quote]
iirc there is no defend stat in FFT, it was all hp. and monks have awesome hp growth. they have slightly weaker physical attack growth but a lot higher speed growth.
willardhaven
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The post-game was grinding in Disgaea, otherwise you could just enjoy the ride.
Rei no Otaku
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I thought FFT was ok. Front Mission 3 is still my favorite SRPG.
StarKnightX
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[quote name='depascal22']I know this is blasphemy but I liked Jeanne d'Arc much more than Final Fantasy Tactics. The gameplay mechanics were much better. Oh, and the class system is getting a little played out. If a guy joins my party and he's an archer, I don't want to play for another four hours just to teach him to be a Knight or Mage.[/quote]
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']I thought FFT was ok. Front Mission 3 is still my favorite SRPG.[/quote]
I've had both those games for a while but haven't started or played either. I have played a demo of front mission before.
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']I thought FFT was ok. Front Mission 3 is still my favorite SRPG.[/quote]
I've had both those games for a while but haven't started or played either. I have played a demo of front mission before.
willardhaven
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FFT and FM are too slow for me, but they are good in their own way.
Rei no Otaku
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I love FM3 more than anyone should love a game. I've put well over 120 hours into it.
FM3 is bitchin'. I played it a shit ton (to me but not Rei I guess ). Probably put 60 hours into it. Never finished it though.
[quote name='suko_32']I like both! I remember getting FM3 when it was released without knowing anything about it other than that there's mechs in it. I was only a kid.[/quote]
I bought it cause of the cover too. It was actually my first SRPG.
). Probably put 60 hours into it. Never finished it though.[quote name='suko_32']I like both! I remember getting FM3 when it was released without knowing anything about it other than that there's mechs in it. I was only a kid.[/quote]
I bought it cause of the cover too.
It was actually my first SRPG.
Front Mission 3 was alright. In beginning, it was really fun - wreaking, stealing or destroying enemy wanzers. But in the end, it got kinda dull. Doing the same thing over and over again for 80+ missions will start to lose it's buzz. It's not like the game is difficult. You can easily beat all stages with dual rockets with a stack of level one skills.
kainzero
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[quote name='willardhaven']The post-game was grinding in Disgaea, otherwise you could just enjoy the ride.[/quote]
I thought there were a couple levels where you needed to level to advance, cause I remember trying to play it straight through and the level difference grows really fast.
I thought FM3 was okay. It got really tedious and the battle animations were sloooooow.
I tested FM for the DS so my opinion on it being tedious doesn't count =)
I thought there were a couple levels where you needed to level to advance, cause I remember trying to play it straight through and the level difference grows really fast.
I thought FM3 was okay. It got really tedious and the battle animations were sloooooow.
I tested FM for the DS so my opinion on it being tedious doesn't count =)
depascal22
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Disgaea doesn't require any leveling but, like you said, the difficulty goes up. I found that I really had to think about a strategy before even starting a level. Throwing became even more important in the last couple chapters.
EDIT -- Do you need to have played Disgaea 2 to get into the third chapter? I don't know enough about either of them. I spent too much time on the first one and got kind of burned out.
EDIT -- Do you need to have played Disgaea 2 to get into the third chapter? I don't know enough about either of them. I spent too much time on the first one and got kind of burned out.
I jus beat Disgaea a few weeks ago. I'm mad hype for part 3 but I'm jus gonna skip 2... I'm sure they dont tie in much...
but since I skipped 2 I went ahead and bought the World of Disgaea 2 book so I can get sum enjoyment out of that game without ever playing it.
but since I skipped 2 I went ahead and bought the World of Disgaea 2 book so I can get sum enjoyment out of that game without ever playing it.
willardhaven
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The World of Disgaea books are nice, I bought them both on Amazon recently for like 25 bucks.
Chibi_Kaji
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I'm kind of hope that Disgaea 2 sees a PSP release. While the story wasn't as good as the first game, I thought everything else about it was better. Also I liked the little breaks you would get every 10 floors or so in item world. Nothing beats running into people you killed in the 1st game.
Yeah, I just heard about the Suikoden DS coming and was wondering about the PS2 games. Supposed to be a sidestory or something?
I know Suikoden 2 is supposed to be the best in the series, but it goes for lotsa $$ now. I hope they finally get their shit together and port it to the US on the PSP one day.
I know Suikoden 2 is supposed to be the best in the series, but it goes for lotsa $$ now. I hope they finally get their shit together and port it to the US on the PSP one day.
[quote name='Krymner']Yeah, I just heard about the Suikoden DS coming and was wondering about the PS2 games. Supposed to be a sidestory or something?
I know Suikoden 2 is supposed to be the best in the series, but it goes for lotsa $$ now. I hope they finally get their shit together and port it to the US on the PSP one day.[/QUOTE]
I would consider getting V. Its only about $30-$35 but the price might end up going up a bit so its a pretty decent ideda to buy right now. Besides that though most people feel III and IV are ass but V is great, some even say better then 2.
I know Suikoden 2 is supposed to be the best in the series, but it goes for lotsa $$ now. I hope they finally get their shit together and port it to the US on the PSP one day.[/QUOTE]
I would consider getting V. Its only about $30-$35 but the price might end up going up a bit so its a pretty decent ideda to buy right now. Besides that though most people feel III and IV are ass but V is great, some even say better then 2.
Rei no Otaku
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I liked 3. It was far from ass. V is the best though.
depascal22
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I've only played III and I didn't like it. The three different protagonist idea is a good one but I didn't like the battle system and that's a big go/no go for me. If the battle system is at least decent, I can push through a game. Plus, I can't stand fighting Hollys just like I don't like fighting Slimes in DQ.
willardhaven
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Suikoden I and III made me sleepy, so I honestly don't feel like getting into the rest.
I huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I finally beat Final Fantasy VI. That accomplishment has been eluding me for 15 years now. It's actually a really easy game and the ending was surprisingly epic for an old SNES game. Plus I liked that the characters were a "rag-tag" bunch instead of being "chosen heroes" or orphans... "blah"
This had some of the best music in a video game ever. I'm heading over to Overclocked to download some of the remixs right now
This had some of the best music in a video game ever. I'm heading over to Overclocked to download some of the remixs right now
FloodsAreUponUS
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I have never played a Suikoden game, and I am thinking of starting off at 3. Suggestions?
willardhaven
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Don't?
Haha well I didn't like it but many others do. From what I have read, I suggest you start with Suikoden V. If you like the fifth, then start tracking down the others.
Haha well I didn't like it but many others do. From what I have read, I suggest you start with Suikoden V. If you like the fifth, then start tracking down the others.
I just saw those new Suikoden Tierkreis for the DS and all I have to say is, "It's about ing time." A little disappointed that it's for the DS and it's not Suikoden VI. Any new Suikoden is good news for me. Time to do some research on this one.
As much as I love talking about Suikoden I feel that the topic of "which Suikoden is the best" has been exhausted. Here:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187799
ing time." A little disappointed that it's for the DS and it's not Suikoden VI. Any new Suikoden is good news for me. Time to do some research on this one.As much as I love talking about Suikoden I feel that the topic of "which Suikoden is the best" has been exhausted. Here:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187799
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