RPG Thread XVII - Talk of RPGs past.

[quote name='heavyd853']It's pretty good. The voice acting is pretty grating though, I think you can turn it off in any case. [/QUOTE]

Can you switch it to Japanese? I generally prefer that over a lot of dubs in games like this. I'll probably pass on it, since I'm currently in the middle of FF9 on my PSP, and I still have P2: IS to finish.
 
I'm sort of tempted to get a 3DS and EO IV with my tax refund, but I have probably about 5 RPGs on the :psp: still to finish.

If I wait to finish all of those, I'll end up getting a 3DS with my 2014 tax refund. (Which, by then there will be 5 different models to choose from. XL? Metalic Color? Super Slim?)
 
[quote name='eldergamer']So...

Unchained Blades won the PSN Gamer's Choice for best :psp: game.

It's on sale (for plus) for $14.69. Tempted to pick it up. Looks like a first person dungeon crawler that has monster collecting, a sphere grid upgrade system and even some rhythm elements (?)

Any opinions?

Also, what is the Dungeons & Dragons Daggerfall game on PSN.[/QUOTE]

I've heard good things about it, so I want to get it...

But I'm 11 cents short from what I have in my psn wallet and I don't want to add $5.

Life is hard.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']Can you switch it to Japanese? I generally prefer that over a lot of dubs in games like this.[/QUOTE]
one of the problems when you learn japanese is that you learn how terribly annoying and cheesy their voices are

one of my biggest pet peeves are female characters that refer to themselves in the third person to be cute

my brain explodes when real life people do it
 
So I made an aside about ME2 in GGT and was about to expand on it, but I'm bringing it here.

I was seriously misled about ME2. I had a few friends who said that, gaming aside, as a scifi experience ME2 was effectively a modern marvel, that it competed with contemporary scifi in lit and film. And that's just not the case.

There are so many flaws. It's not just the fault of the morality system (or whatever you call the paragon/renegade thing). The simplest complaint is that the writing is just boring. Not only in terms of the overarching narrative, where somehow I'm super pissed at this Cerebus thing but never given the option to tell them to shove it. I get that they have to do some shoehorning, but jesus, that seems like an obvious path that they've blocked off.

However, I was told to overlook the main narrative, my friends told me, "Look at the loyalty quests, that's the meat and potatoes." Well I've played three of them thus far, and they were trite. Jack's was particularly banal.

That whole character of Jack...not even bad fanfic would stoop to full body tattoos and dress-belt-for-halter-top in making a "bad girl." It's embarrassing. I know sex sells, and they want to sell something, but jesus. Jack is a part of this narrative, and that kind of lazy characterization (i.e. some hollywood pitch of "sexy female Weapon X") is just dumb, it takes away from the narrative. I can't take scifi seriously that starts with these extremely weak cutouts.

I just don't get it. I might return to it and stick it out, but ME2 is not great scifi. You strip away the scifi element, and you're left with okay but not terrific squad based FPS play and a shitload of dialogue cutscenes with dialogue that isn't particularly engaging. If it were like Falllout, where there can be entertainment to dialogue, that's one thing, but this stuff is so dry.

The way the Mordin guy talks, for instance...I get it, the broken sentences, the phrasing, he's somehow anti-social and analytical and detacted. But he's a fuckin genius: make a complete sentence, dipshit! It's got nothing to do with his species, I've run into other salarians who could communicate. Ugh. The characters are so bad.

The game is just not the scifi story telling experience it's cracked up to be. It might be good relative to gaming, but across media, it's not good. I don't know why critics were all over it. They're all liars, or they just haven't experienced enough thought provoking scifi. They think the scene where Luke finds out Vader is his father is great scifi. It's not. That's good soap opera stuff, and that's what ME2 is going for.
 
[quote name='dothog'] That's good soap opera stuff, and that's what ME2 is going for.[/QUOTE]


This. I LOVED ME1. fucking loved it, sure there were flaws but if fixed in ME2, it will be for the better. Boy was I in a surprise.

ME2 was this sub-par shooter that was over shadowed by this need to be a space soap opera. Don't worry about ME2, because it seriously is just a filler story wise that makes no impact on ME3. Then there is ME3...

And it only gets worse.

Earth is getting attacked, hang on, let me get some booty first...
 
[quote name='dothog']So I made an aside about ME2 in GGT and was about to expand on it, but I'm bringing it here.

I was seriously misled about ME2. I had a few friends who said that, gaming aside, as a scifi experience ME2 was effectively a modern marvel, that it competed with contemporary scifi in lit and film. And that's just not the case.

There are so many flaws. It's not just the fault of the morality system (or whatever you call the paragon/renegade thing). The simplest complaint is that the writing is just boring. Not only in terms of the overarching narrative, where somehow I'm super pissed at this Cerebus thing but never given the option to tell them to shove it. I get that they have to do some shoehorning, but jesus, that seems like an obvious path that they've blocked off.

However, I was told to overlook the main narrative, my friends told me, "Look at the loyalty quests, that's the meat and potatoes." Well I've played three of them thus far, and they were trite. Jack's was particularly banal.

That whole character of Jack...not even bad fanfic would stoop to full body tattoos and dress-belt-for-halter-top in making a "bad girl." It's embarrassing. I know sex sells, and they want to sell something, but jesus. Jack is a part of this narrative, and that kind of lazy characterization (i.e. some hollywood pitch of "sexy female Weapon X") is just dumb, it takes away from the narrative. I can't take scifi seriously that starts with these extremely weak cutouts.

I just don't get it. I might return to it and stick it out, but ME2 is not great scifi. You strip away the scifi element, and you're left with okay but not terrific squad based FPS play and a shitload of dialogue cutscenes with dialogue that isn't particularly engaging. If it were like Falllout, where there can be entertainment to dialogue, that's one thing, but this stuff is so dry.

The way the Mordin guy talks, for instance...I get it, the broken sentences, the phrasing, he's somehow anti-social and analytical and detacted. But he's a fuckin genius: make a complete sentence, dipshit! It's got nothing to do with his species, I've run into other salarians who could communicate. Ugh. The characters are so bad.

The game is just not the scifi story telling experience it's cracked up to be. It might be good relative to gaming, but across media, it's not good. I don't know why critics were all over it. They're all liars, or they just haven't experienced enough thought provoking scifi. They think the scene where Luke finds out Vader is his father is great scifi. It's not. That's good soap opera stuff, and that's what ME2 is going for.[/QUOTE]


I don't think we're friends anymore.

[quote name='j-cart']This. I LOVED ME1. fucking loved it, sure there were flaws but if fixed in ME2, it will be for the better. Boy was I in a surprise.

ME2 was this sub-par shooter that was over shadowed by this need to be a space soap opera. Don't worry about ME2, because it seriously is just a filler story wise that makes no impact on ME3. Then there is ME3...

And it only gets worse.

Earth is getting attacked, hang on, let me get some booty first...[/QUOTE]

I don't think we're friends anymore.
 
[quote name='dothog']So I made an aside about ME2 in GGT and was about to expand on it, but I'm bringing it here.[/QUOTE]
Not to get too off-topic, but they still talk about games in the GGT?!
 
[quote name='dothog']So I made an aside about ME2 in GGT and was about to expand on it, but I'm bringing it here.

I was seriously misled about ME2. I had a few friends who said that, gaming aside, as a scifi experience ME2 was effectively a modern marvel, that it competed with contemporary scifi in lit and film. And that's just not the case.

There are so many flaws. It's not just the fault of the morality system (or whatever you call the paragon/renegade thing). The simplest complaint is that the writing is just boring. Not only in terms of the overarching narrative, where somehow I'm super pissed at this Cerebus thing but never given the option to tell them to shove it. I get that they have to do some shoehorning, but jesus, that seems like an obvious path that they've blocked off.

However, I was told to overlook the main narrative, my friends told me, "Look at the loyalty quests, that's the meat and potatoes." Well I've played three of them thus far, and they were trite. Jack's was particularly banal.

That whole character of Jack...not even bad fanfic would stoop to full body tattoos and dress-belt-for-halter-top in making a "bad girl." It's embarrassing. I know sex sells, and they want to sell something, but jesus. Jack is a part of this narrative, and that kind of lazy characterization (i.e. some hollywood pitch of "sexy female Weapon X") is just dumb, it takes away from the narrative. I can't take scifi seriously that starts with these extremely weak cutouts.

I just don't get it. I might return to it and stick it out, but ME2 is not great scifi. You strip away the scifi element, and you're left with okay but not terrific squad based FPS play and a shitload of dialogue cutscenes with dialogue that isn't particularly engaging. If it were like Falllout, where there can be entertainment to dialogue, that's one thing, but this stuff is so dry.

The way the Mordin guy talks, for instance...I get it, the broken sentences, the phrasing, he's somehow anti-social and analytical and detacted. But he's a fuckin genius: make a complete sentence, dipshit! It's got nothing to do with his species, I've run into other salarians who could communicate. Ugh. The characters are so bad.

The game is just not the scifi story telling experience it's cracked up to be. It might be good relative to gaming, but across media, it's not good. I don't know why critics were all over it. They're all liars, or they just haven't experienced enough thought provoking scifi. They think the scene where Luke finds out Vader is his father is great scifi. It's not. That's good soap opera stuff, and that's what ME2 is going for.[/QUOTE]


Yup. Sounds about 90% right.

It's not hard sci-fi story telling on the level of a Alastair Reynolds, Frederik Pohl or early Steven Baxter. Those are novels. And in most sci-fi novels the characterization is poor, really poor. (Scientist guy and girl scientist who loves him. But isn't as smart as him)

The characters in ME 2 are mostly carrictures but they have slightly more depth than most video gaming cliches, and the game at least attempts to give them an arc and meaning for the stories besides just, "Let's run in this room. shoot stuff, and find the key."

You're really trying to compare novels, movies, and video games against each other. Each is its own medium with different strengths and weaknesses. ME 2 tells a science fiction based story with some soap opera mixed in. It's a genre of it's own called Space Opera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceOpera

And when viewed as a Space Opera (melodrama in space) as opposed to a Sci-Fi Story (pages detailing centrifugal force and how space elevators work) it does a pretty good job of telling an entertaining, melodramatic story.

(The combat is a little boring and repetitive though. Weapon variety is far too limited)
 
[quote name='j-cart']Earth is getting attacked, hang on, let me get some booty first...[/QUOTE]
About the booty...my Shepard is female. On the romance tip, I was a few forced interactions with Jacob into my game when I realized, "This game wants me to WHAT!?"

What makes it even better is that my Shepard is black. Not that skin color is any part of their matchmaking algorithm, just makes it fun to see the two black folk getting stuck in a room. Cartman would be proud.

Anyhow, my interaction degraded into me and Jacob, looking awkward, staring at each other while I contemplated stupid dialogue options that Bioware is using to tell me, "You are super into this black dude! He's cute, he likes guns, and he's brave enough to stand on his own against an absent father!"

[quote name='eldergamer']YME 2 tells a science fiction based story with some soap opera mixed in. It's a genre of it's own called Space Opera.
[/QUOTE]
Yep, I can see that, and I'm aware of what space opera is, but I don't think ME2 stands up to other space opera works (especially the really big, well-known ones). I mean, even Ender's Game provides more depth to its admittedly flat characters than ME2. I didn't force the comparison on to ME2, by the way, it's gaming critics (and my friends who went along with it) who invented this idea that ME2 could be held alongside works outside of gaming.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Yup. Sounds about 90% right.

It's not hard sci-fi story telling on the level of a Alastair Reynolds, Frederik Pohl or early Steven Baxter. Those are novels. And in most sci-fi novels the characterization is poor, really poor. (Scientist guy and girl scientist who loves him. But isn't as smart as him)

The characters in ME 2 are mostly carrictures but they have slightly more depth than most video gaming cliches, and the game at least attempts to give them an arc and meaning for the stories besides just, "Let's run in this room. shoot stuff, and find the key."

You're really trying to compare novels, movies, and video games against each other. Each is its own medium with different strengths and weaknesses. ME 2 tells a science fiction based story with some soap opera mixed in. It's a genre of it's own called Space Opera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceOpera

And when viewed as a Space Opera (melodrama in space) as opposed to a Sci-Fi Story (pages detailing centrifugal force and how space elevators work) it does a pretty good job of telling an entertaining, melodramatic story.

(The combat is a little boring and repetitive though. Weapon variety is far too limited)[/QUOTE]

I agree with this more, except I didn't find the combat boring or anything.

It's hard for me to talk about this game, seeing how it's my favorite game this generation and quite possibly my second favorite game of all time.

So Yeah.
 
Me? Of course I did. I love it.

And after playing ME2 and going back, ME1 was a fuckin chore.

That might be more of a problem with its shitty load times though.
 
And to clarify, I'm not ragging on fans of the game or even the game itself. It's just clearly been oversold as a gaming achievement and a work of scifi -- even calling it a space opera is really pushing it. I think the fault lies largely at the feet of critics who are too eager to write provocative reviews, whether laudatory or damning. I guess where I'd fault Bioware is in the characterization, which can be so lame.

I mean, there's no forgiving that Jack character. That's some embarrassing stuff, it's just juvenile hardon fantasy material, it's the kind of thing a junior high kid would scribble out on the back of a notebook.
 
To me, Mass Effect is sub-par in gaming and story. It just delivers on the end of "cool" factor.

Everything by itself is "cool" but together it is just this mess.

/edit: Jack is a super hottie in ME3 :p Still worthless to the narrative of ME3.
 
Well, I'd certainly argue that most media SciFi (TV, some Movies) tend to be rather soapy anyways, probably because the focus is usually on human drama, which can get soapy.

That being said, there was something about ME1 that got me all giddy with excitement. Maybe it is because it isn't common to see and RPG set in an SF setting. Maybe it was the dialog choices, but a lot of it hit the right spots for me. Unfortunately, I got stuck at one point, put the game aside, and haven't gotten back to it. I should at some point, but I found when I tried starting a new game with a FemShep that I was very rusty with the game.

Certainly all the blowback with ME3 (and to a lesser degree ME2) had taken some of the shine off the game, but I can understand the excitement about the game, since there are few games with that kind of setting.
 
I've never been too crazy about the ME series, but I did very much enjoy all 3 games for various reasons, with 3 being my favorite despite it's problems simply because it also had my favorite/most memorable parts of the series. I was never too invested in the main story or most of the characters, but I do love Mordin (
His death being my favorite part of the series.
) and I'm somewhat fond of a few others such as Thane, Grunt, and Wrex.
 
The asian sword wielding ninja villain in ME3 just made the game meh to me. What am I here to fight? Ninja hair guy or Reapers?

It was like they didn't have anymore ideas left in the game and though, lets put a ninja in the game, because ninjas are cool...
 
That Ninja is hilarious. I thought maybe they would at least attempt to explain him, but no, he's just there because ninjas, man.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']That Ninja is hilarious. I thought maybe they would at least attempt to explain him, but no, he's just there because ninjas, man.[/QUOTE]

Makes me think of this. Go about a minute in...

[youtube]_UuWv_4RrRU[/youtube]
 
Read the books guys gawd.

Anyyyyyyyyyyways, from what the half that I played of 3 (cuz I stop playing games halfway through) it seems alright narratively speaking. I don't mind running into every character I know and dealing with all the major plot threads that have been brought up during the series cuz I know it's the end. I do kind of want to see this stuff out. And besides, seeing Thane sneak up on ninjas and Grunt being all badass is cool. Yes, Earth is under attack, so fuckin what, it's going to wait for me to get back. I'm Shepard.
 
[quote name='kainzero']i liked ME1 because it reminded me a little bit of star control 2.

except star control 2 was a lot better.[/QUOTE]

This is why feel at home with CAG. We're a bunch of jaded old nerds.
 
[quote name='Indignate']Read the books guys gawd.

Anyyyyyyyyyyways, from what the half that I played of 3 (cuz I stop playing games halfway through) it seems alright narratively speaking. I don't mind running into every character I know and dealing with all the major plot threads that have been brought up during the series cuz I know it's the end. I do kind of want to see this stuff out. And besides, seeing Thane sneak up on ninjas and Grunt being all badass is cool. Yes, Earth is under attack, so fuckin what, it's going to wait for me to get back. I'm Shepard.[/QUOTE]

The best parts of ME3 and the reason why it's my favorite is the way it ties up the sideplots, like Mordin with the Genophage, and Tali/Legion with the war; and the fanservicey stuff like letting you see all the characters again for a final mission with them. It's really just the new stuff they introduced that I didn't like: the little boy dream stuff, the ninja, and the sudden change of focus to man vs. machine and repeating a cycle. Even those issues would be less of an issue to me if they didn't seem to make those the focus by not providing anything in the way of character epilogues at the very end in addition to the missions. I basically wanted a MGS4 for the ME universe.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']This is why feel at home with CAG. We're a bunch of jaded old nerds.[/QUOTE]
then people get mad when i say i liked star control 2 over starflight
 
[quote name='kainzero']then people get mad when i say i liked star control 2 over starflight[/QUOTE]

Both were damn good games, tho I'd say the downside of StarCon2 was that if you didn't play the game for any period of time, you were completely lost as to what you were doing, or what you needed to do. (At least, that happened when I played Ur-Quan Masters.
 
We had JUST moved in and our renter's insurance hadn't been set up yet :(


On the bright side, they didn't get the other RPG/collectable games box. Still have my Valkyrie Profile.

Still have most of my PSX Square collection. It was complete, now I'm now short about 5-6 titles. Anyone out there care to part with Threads of Fate, Chocobo's Dungeon 2, Parasite Eve 1 & 2 or the box/manual to Ergheiz?
 
Pretty much agree about the silliness of the Mass Effect series, or at least any attempt those games make at romance. They are great games but for whatever reason people have to treat the character interaction like it's some arthouse level shit. They are action games with episodic doses of hollywood drama in between, leave them at that. Though, I also get starry eyed about certain games from time to time, so maybe I shouldn't talk

Also, I thought Ender's Game was pretty damn stupid.
 
Yeah he kind of assumed Gabranth/Noah's armor and haircut at the very end. AFAIK he kept using his own name though.

Pretty slick fanart though in any case. Basch was my favorite character.
 
[quote name='Indignate']wat[/QUOTE]

Wat yourself, he's a badass. And FF12 is the best game in the series. (My turn to say something controversial since I held my tongue while ME2 was being trashed. :lol:)
 
not bashing ME just saying to relax a bit. last thing we need is kids in 2107 being told that Bioware was the Shakespeare of gaming. you guys ever think about that shit? like, how history is going to document all this? like is Halo going to take a seat next to Super Mario? that's fucked up.
 
Playing Persona 3 for the first time. Just got
Koromaru.
Pissed now that he's not in Arena. Would have made finding a Kanji alt so much easier. Naoto works though.
 
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