RPGs suck today

saadman

saadman

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They suck today, plain and simple.

With linear gameplay, voice acting in general and complicated and unnecessary character building systems, I find myself struggling to enjoy what was once my favorite genre in gaming.

Here are a few points as to why I believe RPGs are being destroyed in the current age of gaming.
1. Voice acting - How can I be expected to relate to or get behind characters who speak in ways that in NO WAY represent a remotely coherent person? Also, 75% of what is said is useless, pointless, plotless filler
example - "C'mon guys! We can do this. We just need to believe in our friends and stay together!"
"Uh? uh.....yeah!!"
"Sure thing! I'm with you until the end!"
Awful. At least when I read Barrett cursing, I could at least imagine he was a badass.
Not an RPG, but if you want to see voice acting done perfect, check out LucasArts' classic gem Full Throttle. We can learn a lot from that.

2. Hokey characters - It seems these days that the most positive, upbeat ragtag group of characters are saving the world. You might as well put a motivational speaker in as your expert in black magic......because that's what it feels like. Where is the depth? The flaws, the development? Chrono Trigger managed to make us feel compassion for a Frog and a Robot for crying out loud! Cloud Strife.....our main character, was a selfish dick and he got through to us. Something tells me Edge Maverick (Star Ocean 4 for anyone not aware) is not going to be on my memorable list of characters.

3. Overcompensating - Symbology, guilds, level points etc... etc... somehow plain old leveling up, equipping items and learning spells got lost in that mix? It seems too many games these days come up with complex character building systems to overshadow the lack of effort they have put into the rest of the game. Sure, SIMPLE variety is nice (i.e. materia or some simple alchemy) but don't overcompensate. Stick to the basics.

4. Linear games = linear vision - What ever happened to the world map? I applaud Tales of Vesperia for keeping that in. Just jumping from town to dungeon to dungeon to town.....wow, there's a sense of accomplishment. It's not enough to acquire an airship, I want to freakin' fly the thing around the world! The first game I played where they nixed the world map was FFX.....it was brutal.

5. Saving the world is not fun - Those characters in FFVII were DEPRESSED. They were dark and dreary and sad. And honestly....that made them relatable. The characters in Xenogears had dark pasts that has serious implications on the plot. Don't pretend for a second that a group of people marching to their death are thinking "THIS IS GONNA BE FUN!!" People are scared, people are flawed, people live in a world that threatens them and their feelings and emotions react to that world. We were somehow able to translate that into RPGs of old.....but got lazy today.

Those are just a few issues I have with RPGs today. I feel the sense of wonder and imagination is lost. I am sure there are many views out there and I hope at least some people can agree with some of the points I wrote above. I certainly won't give up on RPGs in the hope that I do come across the next memorable adventure. Unfortunately sifting through bullshit to find is becoming a real task I do not wish to participate in.
 
Maybe you should play some western RPGs, some of the problems you mention aren't as big of an issue in WRPGs.

Roll the hard six. Pick up Fallout 3 or Mass Effect. ;)
 
While I enjoyed Mass Effect I'd be hard pressed to even call it an RPG. It's a shooter/action game with light RPG elements... And it isn't really open-ended either. It sort of seems that way but when most of the planets have nothing on them except for some useless collectables and one and exactly one "event" (each of which is built upon just 3 or 4 protoypes - cave, warehouse, etc) it doesn't end up being as wide open as the hype claimed.

I think the OP has just grown up and things never seem as good once you get older. Probably the games aren't that different, he just remembers them differently ;). I'm a bit older (I assume) so my "RPGs" were Zork and Adventure and early Might and Magic dungeon crawlers. The things out today seem light years ahead in just about every way so I'm not complaining. Then again I sort of skipped all that NES/SNES/N64/PS1 nonsense so maybe I just missed the "golden age". Who knows.
 
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The RPGs of my youth is The Baldurs Gate series, and yeah, a lot of that charm has disappeared over the years, but hey, nothing is really that constant.

I say, try fallout 3 or Oblivion. Actually, play some western RPG, as noted before, because they tend to be more sand-boxy than jrpgs. Overlord may be linear, but it was damn funny, and the voice acting is pretty spot on. Fallout 3 has the best voice acting that I heard in a while, and the writing is terrific. The characters have much more life in them, and they are really dynamic.
 
go play Mass Effect or Valkyrie Chronicles. they fix alot of my complaints about the genre I have. Also, most of the better and good RPGs out now are on handhelds IMHO.
 
1. Seems like you're talking more about JRPGS. Japanese to English rarely ever translates well. Plus issues of lip syncing limits what translators can do.
2. Looks like you're going to remember Edge Maverick because he's "hokey." In the context of JRPGs, the audience isn't solely the western world; Japanese developers can't cater to everyone across the world. What one group likes may not be what another group likes... so on
3. Not all is lost, WOW has what you like:fairly simplistic/complex leveling system where as you level, you get statistically stronger, can use better armor, and learn spells. Not much else after that, and look how successful it is. I do agree, sometimes it's overbearing when I have to ask, "How do I level and get stronger?"
4. Not having a world map is how traveling has changed in games. Even with a world map, all you're really doing is going from point A to point B. There's an element of exploratory role play that's missing (you're literally going around a world), but it's not totally lost. You can explore a dungeon or city that might lead to some obscure waypoint on a world map. Sometimes I miss that feeling of speed flying on an Airship, but I much prefer the convenience of just going to where I need to be. Again, not all is lost, you can fly around the world in WOW.
5. I haven't really played enough new JRPGs to address this issue of happy go lucky world saviors.

You should just go back to playing old JRPgames and relive those memories. It'll do better for you than your hating the new stuff. I'm sure there's good stuff out there, like Persona 4 which people seem to like.

Also, you should like western RPGs much more than JRPGs, so Bioware stuff, Bethesda stuff... Those games take your issues and address them to your favor
 
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Yeah, JRPGs are all kinds of fucked this gen. totally niche, except Lost Odyssey, which I think got around 600,000 ww, iirc. Some are shit (Infinite Undiscovery), others are aimed at anime fans (Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean, and Tales of Vesperia), and some just won't fucking come out, FFXIII. I remember people citing JRPGs as a big strength of the PS2 that the Xbox was lacking. The only thing that MS' grab for exclusive JRPGs achieved was a few short sales boosts in Japan.

WRPGs, on the other hand, are getting pretty sweet. Fallout 3 and Mass Effect in particular.
 
As far as I'm concerned, Bioware and Intelligent Systems are keeping RPGs alive. Well, that and whoever did Valkyria Chronicles - haven't played it, but damn do I ever want to. The Bethesda and Blizzard take on the WRPG just don't do it for me (as I have explained in the GGT and will again if for some bizarre reason you wish I do so), and Obsidian games tend to lack polish. I haven't enjoyed a non-strategy/tactical JRPG since Skies of Arcadia.

EDIT: I would like to address the "too cheerful" stuff mentioned in points 1, 2, and 5. I don't really play a lot of RPGs these days, so I can't say whether or not what you said is accurate. If it is, however, I'd say it's just the pendulum swinging back from what many felt was a post-FFVII DARK AND BROODING-athon.

...

The above should not be read as a condemnation of FFVII.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']oh shit, forgot about the Witcher too. Anyone who hasn't played it needs to get it when it comes out on consoles.[/quote]
Cant wait!
 
So...you prefer games with no voice acting, a simple level-level-level-new item-new spell system, that have depressed characters. Gee whiz, sign me up for that! :roll:

It sounds to me like you just missing out on a lot of this gen's good RPGs. The only two games I actually saw you mention were Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean 4. (Other than your complete boner fest for FFVII of course)

So to take your points one by one....

1. Voice acting: This one varies pretty wildly across the genre, and for the most part I do have to agree with you. The Bioware RPGs stand out to me as having great voice acting, but a lot of stuff that gets localized to the US seems to come out pretty terrible.

2. Hokey characters: Now here is my problem. It seems to me that you want your story spoon fed to you. The overwhelming trend in RPGs this gen is for player control and customization of the main character / avatar. So if the character is hokey...it is probably your own fault. Now as far as having a diverse group of characters that are not all happy kids...try Jeanne D'Arc.

3. Overcompensating: Again, major disagreement here. While there ARE overly complex systems, what is the problem with creativity? I like not having the same exact "fight-get XP-gain level-get Fire 2 spell" in every single game. A lot of games this break your player development into more of a skill tree where you can focus one way or another, or make a balanced character. To me this allows for greater freedom and control. For example, I thought Fable 2 had a great level/abilty system. Strength/Will/Skill, each with their own XP with a nice tree of abilites for each. I never even cared that my character did not have a "level" per say. Also, when you say "symbology", I am guessing you are referring to a lot of the games that have a "A is strong against B and weak against C" magic system. I like these systems because they build a lot more strategy into adding skills and customizing your party.

4. Linear games = linear vision: OK...what the hell are you playing? seriously, there are a ton of open world RPGs this gen. Oblivion, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Fable 2, Jeanne D'Arc, the KotOR games, WoW, the Witcher, Demon Souls...it is your own fault if you are choosing to play the linear games.

5. Saving the world is not fun: It sounds to me like your real problem is that you are insisting on playing kiddy JRPGS. While you weren't looking RPGs changed, so if the ones you liked a decade ago aren't fun, it sounds like you need to move on to the new stuff buddy. There are plenty of mature RPGs this gen.
 
FF7 is shit, but I do agree with your post. New RPGs (meaning not remakes/ports) are total ass this generation except for Valkyria Chronicles and possibly Opoona. This includes handhelds.
 
I happen to like the RPG's out today with exception of maybe one or two. But saying that all RPG's suck today is just plain stupid.
 
Most RPGs have depressing storylines which I'm really not a fan of. So I'd agree in that most RPGs do suck. Something like ToV is the only one which really had a nice, light, comical storyline that was great if you're someone who doesn't take your games too seriously.
 
[quote name='saadman']5. Saving the world is not fun - Those characters in FFVII were DEPRESSED. They were dark and dreary and sad.[/quote]
nothing says dark dreary and sad like cross dressing to get info from a fat man.
 
Yeah I think that's more limited to JRPGs which I haven't enjoyed in years.

Western RPGs have less of those problems. While I'll agree some like Mass Effect may be fairly light on the RPG elements in some peoples minds. Maybe that's why I like them more.

But yeah, check out Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 etc. and see if any of those kind of games are more your style.

I love them and had JPRGs or turn-based games in general. Can't stand playing games where I'm not in total control of combat etc.
 
I don't really care for the western-RPG track. Some are decent, like Fable, but many are kind of boring to me. I prefer the classic JRPG style, but I find few do it in the style I prefer.
 
I disagree. All the goodies are hiding on handhelds. In fact two nice ones just came out. Suikoden and Valkyrie Profile on DS. Valkyrie Profile is difficult but I am thoroughly enjoying it. It definately has a VP1 flavor to it even though it is more strategdy based. The limited voice acting (just calling out specials like in VP1) and writing is done well.

Haven't tried Suikoden yet but it looks promising. It looks like a classic Suikoden title.

There are even secret of mana types such as The Abyss (again DS).
 
Like Rum, the "classic" era of RPG for me were the days of Black Isle but I had played things like Bard's Tale, Wizardry, Ultima, others in addition to a few of the original NES FF games. Since the original Fallout, RPGs were always my favorite genre because of the choice, freedom, and occasionally unique settings or story. However, these were not always present in some of the original computer RPGs and JRPGs - at least not to me. I'm guessing everyone has different preferences of what makes a good RPG based on what got them hooked in the first place...for me, it's all about the choice. Fallout 1 and PS:T FTW.

I agree with most of the posters above me - a lot of those complaints are addressed in some Western RPGs (well, maybe not the terrible voice acting...). Depending on how far back you want to go, I think most people here can recommend some things to check out.
 
Tales games are pretty sweet. Lost Odyssey is good if you want a dark/brooding Gears of War flavored Final Fantasy. What about SMT Nocturne or Digital Devil Saga if you want a dark game? Actually, Valkyrie Profile 2 has a pretty mature cast, there isn't a lot of anime BS from what I've played.
 
Nobody mentioned this, and this game that I'm about to suggest has a pretty niche following, but I did enjoy playing the Penny Arcade games (though I haven't picked up the second episode.

When I played Penny Arcade: On the Rain-slick Precipice of Darkness Episode 1, I really enjoyed the opening narrators voice (though the rest of the game was the standard "wall-of-text" stuff). It was fairly linear, even feeling a bit heavy handed on being lead along the story, but it was a pretty good story imo. The writing style and humor is stylized like the Penny Arcade webcomics, and if you're a big fan of Tycho and Gabe and their whimsical stories, then you'll love this game.

It's download only, and personally, the episodes are fairly short for the money I payed for them (4-8 hours, depending), but to me it never got boring. Maybe the reason why it felt really short was that I was pretty engaged with the story and gameplay mechanics.

There's a free demo, for both episodes that are release now. Try it, and if you like it, then buy it :)
 
[quote name='ninja dog']oh shit, forgot about the Witcher too. Anyone who hasn't played it needs to get it when it comes out on consoles.[/quote]

I'm reading through the short stories that the Witcher is based around now (they are very good). I have yet to play the Witcher and I'm trying to decide if its worth waiting for the console version or just buy the "enhanced" pc version.

Also about modern JRPGs, I recommend trying some games from the SMT series. Persona is a bit more light hearted, but has plenty of strategy and characterization. DDS is more tactical. Nocturne is darker, and more "traditional".
 
I have to agree with the OP on a lot of points. For me personally, FFVI was the be all and end all of RPGs. The characters were great, the way you learned spells by equipping Magicite was extremely innovative, you get your airship and a world map and the story was great. Hell, you survive what is basically Armageddon and continue on. I loved it. My dream is to see Final Fantasy VI 2. i don't even care if they bring back any of the characters, I just want magicite and Espers!
 
JRPG's these days are no more linear than they were before.

Having an airship means jack if there's really nothing to fly to...it's a false sense of freedom.

True...in DQ 1 you could go whereever you wanted, until you got wiped out by an enemy far to strong for you, making your realistic path very linear.
 
I agree with the OP on all his points. I love JRPGs, but this generation is seriously lacking. Vesperia & Lost Odyssey IMO are the best so far. Vesperia would've been perfect if it wasn't for the cliched story.

And what happened to Square/Enix? Since the merge they've just been making dribble.
 
[quote name='epb']I have to agree with the OP on a lot of points. For me personally, FFVI was the be all and end all of RPGs. The characters were great, the way you learned spells by equipping Magicite was extremely innovative, you get your airship and a world map and the story was great. Hell, you survive what is basically Armageddon and continue on. I loved it. My dream is to see Final Fantasy VI 2. i don't even care if they bring back any of the characters, I just want magicite and Espers![/QUOTE]

Agreed. I think the cell phone sequel to FFIV, which is now coming to Wiiware, might be the closest we get to this anytime soon. Though, honestly, I know very little about the title.
 
I don't find myself into JRPG's as much these days, and I think I've come to the realization that I prefer Western RPG's ever since Baldur's Gate. But, I do think RPG's have been generally better all around over the past few years.
 
There are still a lot of RPG's that i'm having fun with.
weather it's linear or not doesn't really bug me anymore, I'm just interested in a good fun story and hopefully a good combat system.

I've been playing Ar Tonelico and having a great time with it, looking forward to 2.
Pearsona 3 and 4 are terrific.
Etrian Odyssey 1 and 2 are great.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Vesperia would've been perfect if it wasn't for the cliched story.[/quote]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Vesperia is more of a chore to get through than anything. I'm literally like 15 hours in and NOTHING has happened. You have your apathetic main character, miss princess OMG, and anime cliche'd characters 101 which hardly makes for an interesting story. Even the dungeons are uninspired. Something better happen soon.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']And what happened to Square/Enix? Since the merge they've just been making dribble.[/quote]
I was thinking about this....

Aside from the heavy hitters of DQ and FF, both Square and Enix never really put out a ton of good games. A lot of it was either niche or mediocre, with the occasional hit here and there. You can make a case for SoM, CT, Soul Blazer, and VP.

But the mediocrity of say, SaGa Frontier can be matched with an IU. KH can be matched with SoM (to some extent), Dissidia with Ehrgeiz / BB...

Not to mention, SE is mostly just a publisher, not an actual developer.

[quote name='FlamingMoogles']what i would give for a JRPG where not one character says, "Let's do our best!"[/quote]
"I guess it couldn't be helped!"
 
Op should play Skies of Arcadia.

Mass Effect is NOT an RPG. Cool story, Intense at points, fun dialogue system with shooter elements but 8 HOURS LONG. comon Gears of War was longer. I should not be feeling like I'm hitting the Apex of a story and dwingling down after 7 hours. Horrible Bioware, Horrible.

Then again I was suspecting something like this. I pegged Mass effect to be 20-25 hours consider KOTOR was only in that range. I made the mistake of thinking KOTOR was gonna be 40 and ended up 15 short, so i guess chopping off another 15 doesn't hurt the drooling masses.

I suppose next consoles will see RPGS with -5 hours of gameplay from Bioware.
 
[quote name='epb']I have to agree with the OP on a lot of points. For me personally, FFVI was the be all and end all of RPGs. The characters were great, the way you learned spells by equipping Magicite was extremely innovative, you get your airship and a world map and the story was great. Hell, you survive what is basically Armageddon and continue on. I loved it. My dream is to see Final Fantasy VI 2. i don't even care if they bring back any of the characters, I just want magicite and Espers![/quote]

Won't find any disagreement from me on this. I still play FFVI all the way through once or twice a year.

They're still making good JRPGs if you're a fan of JRPGs: Eternal Sonata, Valkyria Chronicles, Lost Odyssey, and others. If you're not already a fan of the genre though, ther might be fewer to draw you in (though I maintain VC can be enjoyed by anyone).
 
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