Rumor that next Xbox won't play used games

[quote name='McCHitman']And this is the problem to me with digital distribution. Could you imagine if all the previous game generations were digital only? Honestly, how much of those games would be preserved?

I like DD, but I prefer physical media. I have 28 fantastic XBLA games and can't play them on the 360 in my bedroom because it's not connected to the internet, If I copy them to the harddrive I still can't play the full game due to the license issue and no connectivity. I think that is dumb. I don't know if the games industry is ready to move to an all digital format due to the amount of people that aren't even connected to online services.

Eh, who knows. But if the next console doesn't have a Disc drive, the probability for me buying it is pretty low.[/QUOTE]
What I said is not limited to digital distribution. It applies to physical media as well, things you "own", and is dependent on the EULA.

Important shit that I'm too lazy to put in my own words:
[quote name='the-ghetto.org']
In 2005, EBay auctioneer Timothy Vernor purchased a used copy of AutoCAD at a garage sale and proceeded to sell it through EBay’s online service. Developer Autodesk didn’t care much for that. A pretty hefty pissing match eventually turned into a legal battle. Vernor argued he was entitled to the first-sale doctrine, the apparatus that allows for the existence of a second-hand market. Autodesk said that didn’t matter. The company wrote an End User License Agreement. That document stated the software was licensed, not sold. No resale can legally occur. When the previous owner upgraded his copy of Autodesk to a newer version, he was supposed to eliminate all copies of the older version.

1996′s ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg affirmed the legal validity of shrink-wrap EULAs, those installation screens where you sell your soul and all future children to the company. But Vernor never agreed to the licensing agreement. He was simply selling some piece of software he found at a garage sale. The district court agreed. Vernor won. Autodesk appealed, and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overruled. According to the Ninth Circuit, it didn’t matter whether Vernor “agreed” or not. The EULA was the rules laid out by the company for how to use the product. So currently, in America, End User License Agreements are currently as valid as the contents within.[/quote]
 
That's my problem with EULA's also. I had a in depth conversation with my mom about it a few months back, can't remember what sparked it, some news story I think. It's to the point where, you have to accept them to use a lot of things, but could you imagine if everything was like this?

Your car is only licensed to you, you don't own it. Your home...it's absurd. Absolutely absurd.
 
Like I mentioned earlier, I think that not having the other console makers on board would create a nuke like check system to keep them from doing it. Because many people would just stay with Sony / Nintendo. I'm surprised that Sony and Microsoft never tried to just take out gamestop by having their own marketplace and instead of credit you get PSN and XBL points. Yes they would be hitting their own profits, but at least they would be cutting away from Gamestop and wouldn't alienate the costumer to a rival company.

If they would have done this from the start, they wouldn't also have Bestbuy, Amazon, etc also in the used game market.

I think a few reason that the gamestop pricing method worked vs other used items.
Games for a lot of people are a 1 and done kinda deal, replay value is low. Generally an Album has high replay value and trade in's may take time. CD stores were around when I was collecting an allowance, so I didn't have much time in them, but as a Kid I would have bought a used version at 1.00 or two less. And I remember stores that had used CDS too, but the problem is they didn't have the current popular albums used.

Games are less prone to be a flavor of the month, and are really not going to suddenly go from a huge success one week, then scandal/popularity fallout etc.

Games hold a better sale period, even budget old titles. For Music...at some point some store got stuck with Billy Ray Cyrus and Baha Men albums, and thats a lot harder to sell imo than Madden 2006
 
@ The crotch -- interesting stuff.

On the one hand, it makes sense because the original person agreed to the EULA and so he wasn't allowed to sell it at the garage sale in the first place. So even though the second person didn't actively agree, he never should have possessed the item in the first place.

On the other hand, what is person a buys the item, opens it, never accepts the EULA because he disagrees with it and tries to resell it. He should be allowed to but probably won't be under the current law.

As for video games, I couldn't imagine a company trying to pull this off, whether it's a publisher or console maker. If I heard that I couldn't resell my physical copy of Bonestorm, I would never buy it in the first place. I would hope that other gamers would have enough restraint to do the same, effectively voting down the practice with our wallets.

There's no game I could ever imagine where I would accept this type of agreement. Not Bioshock Infinite, not even the yearly sports games I get every year.
 
I read in an article that you would bind a game to your online account. Similar to the multiplayer online keys that exist now, except it applies to the whole game.
 
[quote name='Ruahrc']I read in an article that you would bind a game to your online account. Similar to the multiplayer online keys that exist now, except it applies to the whole game.[/QUOTE]

And if you don't go online?

This shit is just so dumb. If this comes to pass, I'll be done with console gaming. Why does the video game industry feel that it deserves special privileges in regards to their products? I can buy used movies, used cd's, used cars... but not used games? I seriously hope they're smarter than this shit.
 
[quote name='AugustAPC']And if you don't go online?

This shit is just so dumb. If this comes to pass, I'll be done with console gaming. Why does the video game industry feel that it deserves special privileges in regards to their products? I can buy used movies, used cd's, used cars... but not used games? I seriously hope they're smarter than this shit.[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately they are being smart. The success numbers say that as long as there is a hype on pre-orders, people will pay over the MSRP of $60. If they can get people to hold onto their games (DLC games are non-trade-able) as if they were prize possessions, then companies will do so with every intent to get people to pay them for that.
 
Yeah, it will probably be good for publishers as they'll make more money even if the size of the market shrinks since buying new would be the only way to buy games. And it would probably thwart most piracy if you needed some type on pass to register the game.

I'm with AugustAPC as I've said before though. I have no interest in holding onto my games like prized possessions as I'm not a collector. No way to trade/resell games after I beat them and I'm out.

I'm half inclined to not bother with next gen consoles anyway as I'm just burnt out on gaming again. I was super stoked for ME3, and I am enjoying it, but I've still only put 15 hours in it since release day as I've been busy and just more interested in spending free time on other things.
 
This is a bad idea. Bad, bad, bad. The market will shrink drastically. Even those people who still buy the next gen consoles wont buy as many games now.

A lot of people fund their new games by selling their old games. Without this less new games will be bought. And I buy a lot of new games now that I am not sure if I will like, because I know if I dont like it I can sell it back at no loss to me. Now everyone will really stop to think "will this be worth my money?" and "do I want to own this game for ever?" This in itself will really hurt new IPs. Why should I buy some game I really dont know will be any good when I can just buy a sequel to a game I know I liked?

As for piracy, this will only increase it. I am sure someone will find a way to get around this and make it possible for people to steal them online.

I still do not think this will actually happen. It just doesnt make sense to treat your consumers so poorly. But maybe this will open the door for some other company to jump into the console wars without this ban on used games.
 
I mean it's inevitable that it's going to happen eventually as games will eventually go download only. That probably can't happen next gen since broad band still isn't available everywhere in the country yet. So I wouldn't be shocked if they found someone way to block disc or SD card based games from being traded/sold as a stop gap measure until going 100% download only is feasible.
 
If they wanted to do it, it's a cinch to do from a tech standpoint. (And yes, people will always figure out how to hack it.)

But they won't do it as long as physical media sales are the predominant form of purchase. When the tide turns and most game sales are via dd, then they could kill physical media. Just like no one is gonna make music CDs in 5 years.

As for the next generation not being able to play used games, anyone who is spreading this rumor is an idiot. I'll eat my hat if the next gen won't play used games.
 
i still don't see the next xbox/ps4 implementing this. seems a little drastic to me. Perhaps they would do some sort of timed period where you can't activate a used game. That's more reasonable.

i pretty much refuse to buy games until they are under 20 and usually keep games from that point as they don't have much trade in value anyways. if the next gen implements this i'll just follow my guidelines. if it's sub 20 then i don't care about trading it in anyways.
 
This seems really drastic, we also have to remember that there is still a large chunk of the USA that is without broadband internet access, so if the console must be online to play games then these people obviously won't be able to purchase the console. Its a nightmare for retailers who sell the console as well, as a lot of console buyers don't understand online connectivity and I can see a lot of consoles being returned if they didn't work because the family the console was purchased for didn't have wireless broadband internet access. There are tons of people who also play their console's offline, and once again contrary to popular belief not everyone has internet access in their homes.

Some people I know just have their smartphone now and don't even bother paying for internet access in their homes, they don't have a computer and they don't have a landline (yes I know there is cable internet but most people here have DSL through a phone line). Dry loop DSL is hard to get without a landline, and is definitely not available in my area. Most smartphones don't allow you to tether a console to a phone and that would be impractical for a variety of reasons. This totally leaves out the issue of data caps that most ISP's will implement in the next few years and smartphone data caps which are getting smaller and smaller and more and more expensive.

I am glad I am getting all 3 consoles this gen, as if next gen goes this way I will be skipping it totally. Or Nintendo will become king if Sony and MS require online connectivity to play their games, as I don't think Nintendo would require online for their games and I don't think they would implement measures so that their games couldn't be played if they were used.

For the person that said there will be no music CD's in the next 5 years music CD's in japan are still the primary delivery method of the content and I seriously doubt they will be going away in the next 5 years completely for the world. I am pretty sure that there are some artist's in Japan for which they do not release digital music, you have to buy the CD and rip it yourself. Yes sales are dwindling in the USA but CD's are still being sold.
 
CDs will go the way of the LP in the next 5 years. I only speak on US issues as I don't fancy myself any expert on how the rest of the world does things.

There will be a small market for them but the majority of people will be getting their music via DD, especially newer artists. You'll still see $100 box sets from Nirvana (thanks Courtney, you whore) and the and a limited edition release or two but mostly, only old people will buy CDs and the only CDS produced will be the ones that appeal to old people.

I don't care as I'm a vinyl collector.
 
Try buying the most popular music in Japan where they release in some cases 7-10 different editions of one single, and dedicated fans will buy every single one for the exclusive songs. But that is the extreme, most singles usually have 3-5 editions, but it does seem to be getting more insane in recent years. There is usually more than one version of each album too, and again each version has exclusive content. Some fans over there buy 10-100 copies of a single just to support the artist they like. It would be very foolish for Japan to go completely digital if this model is working for them, as I am sure they are raking in the bucks from all those duplicate CD sales. A CD single in Japan is usually around $10-15 per copy usually with 1-3 songs (american dollars). An album can be as much as $30-50 in American dollars. This is the short version, its a lot more complicated then this, and I don't have a good handle on how the digital service's over there work.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']This seems really drastic, we also have to remember that there is still a large chunk of the USA that is without broadband internet access, so if the console must be online to play games then these people obviously won't be able to purchase the console. Its a nightmare for retailers who sell the console as well, as a lot of console buyers don't understand online connectivity and I can see a lot of consoles being returned if they didn't work because the family the console was purchased for didn't have wireless broadband internet access. There are tons of people who also play their console's offline, and once again contrary to popular belief not everyone has internet access in their homes.

Some people I know just have their smartphone now and don't even bother paying for internet access in their homes, they don't have a computer and they don't have a landline (yes I know there is cable internet but most people here have DSL through a phone line). Dry loop DSL is hard to get without a landline, and is definitely not available in my area. Most smartphones don't allow you to tether a console to a phone and that would be impractical for a variety of reasons. This totally leaves out the issue of data caps that most ISP's will implement in the next few years and smartphone data caps which are getting smaller and smaller and more and more expensive.[/QUOTE]

Part of the rumor is that the console will still use discs to deliver content. The only online access required would be minimal. It would take a couple hundred kilobytes...maybe a megabyte or two...to unlock the content for the system. That would still leave a problem for people who just can't get online, but Microsoft/Sony just might be willing to lose them as customers. As I mentioned way earlier, there's a lot of money offline players can't give Sony/Microsoft.

This is going to end up being a numbers game. No used sales means each game sold is guaranteed profit, at the risk of losing offline customers or customers rebelling against the new model. The answer to whether that will result in increased profits lay in data no one here has access to.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']A CD single in Japan is usually around $10-15 per copy usually with 1-3 songs (american dollars). An album can be as much as $30-50 in American dollars. This is the short version, its a lot more complicated then this, and I don't have a good handle on how the digital service's over there work.[/QUOTE]

They actually have really limited prints though. I had to settle paying $45 for a CD because the limited edition with the DVD was sold out.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Part of the rumor is that the console will still use discs to deliver content. The only online access required would be minimal. It would take a couple hundred kilobytes...maybe a megabyte or two...to unlock the content for the system. That would still leave a problem for people who just can't get online, but Microsoft/Sony just might be willing to lose them as customers. As I mentioned way earlier, there's a lot of money offline players can't give Sony/Microsoft.

This is going to end up being a numbers game. No used sales means each game sold is guaranteed profit, at the risk of losing offline customers or customers rebelling against the new model. The answer to whether that will result in increased profits lay in data no one here has access to.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if i agree with that. If i get this next gen xbox/ps4 and don't connect online when i insert a game how will my system know if this particular game has been activated. Maybe the system will write that data to the disc but then all consoles will have to have a writeable disc drive(assuming they are disk based) and that will add cost that they will try to avoid. I really don't see this happening yet.
 
I think making the market smaller isn't necessarily bad. Too many devs/publishers are catering to the general public/new/casual gamer. I'd like to see some niche titles make a comeback next-gen. Thinning the herd may help do that.
 
[quote name='tbassett']I don't know if i agree with that. If i get this next gen xbox/ps4 and don't connect online when i insert a game how will my system know if this particular game has been activated. Maybe the system will write that data to the disc but then all consoles will have to have a writeable disc drive(assuming they are disk based) and that will add cost that they will try to avoid. I really don't see this happening yet.[/QUOTE]

It'd likely work the same way Origin/Steam games work now...each game comes with an activation code that unlocks the game for your account. Instead of having to download the game in it's entirety though, you can use the discs to install the game to your hard drive. Requires minimal network bandwidth, but the same effect is achieved. If your system is offline, well then you can't activate the game.
 
[quote name='AugustAPC']And if you don't go online?[/quote]

If you don't go online at least once, to register the key, you don't get to play.

[quote name='SaraAB']This seems really drastic, we also have to remember that there is still a large chunk of the USA that is without broadband internet access, so if the console must be online to play games then these people obviously won't be able to purchase the console. Its a nightmare for retailers who sell the console as well, as a lot of console buyers don't understand online connectivity and I can see a lot of consoles being returned if they didn't work because the family the console was purchased for didn't have wireless broadband internet access. There are tons of people who also play their console's offline, and once again contrary to popular belief not everyone has internet access in their homes.[/quote]

According to this report (http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2011/db0520/DA-11-732A1.pdf) 63% of US households had broadband access in 2009. It is reasonable to assume that this number has only increased since then.

Additionally, as of June 2011 in the US, 100% of urban areas and around 95% of rural areas have access to some form of broadband. (http://www.broadbandmap.gov/download/Broadband Availability in Rural vs Urban Areas June 2011.pdf)

I'll admit the 63% number is lower than I thought (granted it is 3 years old now), but really, broadband penetration is much more widespread in the US than some people think. The availability numbers were higher than I expected, basically the entire US at least has access to some form of broadband (although this does not take into account price).

Considering the increasing association of modern consoles with online gaming, it is not hard to imagine that the overwhelming majority of current and future console owners will have access to broadband, or at least some way to get their consoles online to do things like register a game serial number. I'm sure some people will be left out in the cold if the next-gen consoles do something like this, but it's not like they'd be losing half their market.

[quote name='tbassett']I don't know if i agree with that. If i get this next gen xbox/ps4 and don't connect online when i insert a game how will my system know if this particular game has been activated. Maybe the system will write that data to the disc but then all consoles will have to have a writeable disc drive(assuming they are disk based) and that will add cost that they will try to avoid. I really don't see this happening yet.[/QUOTE]

Again, if you don't register it online, you won't get to play. It'd be like registering office or windows or basically any computer software nowadays. Maybe game companies, like MS, will adopt some kind of phone-in system for those who don't have online access or choose to activate over the phone, but I highly doubt it.

Note: not that I like any of this, I think if the consoles went in this direction, I might have serious reservations about going into the next console generation either, but I'm just trying to present some facts.
 
[quote name='Ruahrc']I'll admit the 63% number is lower than I thought (granted it is 3 years old now), but really, broadband penetration is much more widespread in the US than some people think.[/QUOTE]

And we've had a major recession since... The number might have gone up, but I'd be surprised if it hit 70% today.
 
Broadband availability is increasing, but you're still talking somewhere around 30% of the US without access.

Basically you lose huge swaths of mostly rural states where many people (like my parents) have no broadband options beyond the shitty satellite internet that's slow, expensive and has small caps.

So it's still a good chunk of the market to lose if they go to any system that requires broadband to game. So that won't happen this next go around. The genereation after this maybe it will be feasible if broadband penetration grows.

But that will probably require government funding to get it into rural areas where people are too spread out for it to be profitable for cable or phone companies to put in the infrastructure.
 
Major recession since 2009? If anything the economy has only improved since then. It's still in the dumps yes, but 2008-2009 was about the bottom of the lows.

dmaul, look at the broadbandmap report. About 85% of the rural population in the US have access to some form of wireline (i.e. not satellite) broadband access. About the same percentage have access to at least 2 wireline offerings. Meaning that pretty much anyone who has wireline access also has at least 2 offerings. Wherever your parents live, it is definitely not the typical "rural" environment, and they are very much in the extreme minority than the standard. There are no "huge swaths of rural states" that don't have access to broadband anymore.

CO, UT, NV, ND and SD, all arguably among the most rural states in the nation, consistently rank quite high in terms of equity between rural and urban broadband access options. Many times even better than some of the denser, more well-devloped states (look at the mid-atlantic region).

I'm not saying there shouldn't be better or more widespread broadband options, but IMHO we are well beyond the point where requiring a product to have broadband access won't kill sales too much to be commercially viable. Look at Apple iPads, which was essentially designed around mobile broadband access- they sell so well that Apple can't make them fast enough.

When you additionally factor in that consoles have a worldwide market (particularly europe and asia), where broadband connectivity typically equals or surpasses the US, the total size of the market that gets "closed off" because of lack of broadband is really, really small.
 
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Fair points. Maybe they could go that route if they want.

I kind of hope they do as it will reduce any temptation I have to game beyond this generation when my interest level in gaming just isn't the same anymore and my free time has shrank.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']For all we know, they might just see the eternally-offline gamer as a customer they're willing to lose. They don't buy DLC, don't pay for XBL, can't see their Ads, are immune to the online-pass shenanigans, and if microtransactions take off, they wont be able to buy those either.[/QUOTE]
With the popularity of digital distribution growing, I can see this happening. I've been one of those offline gamers for about 6 months and it's a PITA sometimes. I gotta truck my console to a house with internet, DL the updates/add-ons/DLC/codecs/etc.. just so I can enjoy all the stuff developers once used to include with a game when it was released. I suppose with the rising costs of development, all these developers need to figure out some way to recoup losses...
 
If people can't play used games on consoles they'll just do it via unsavory means aka PC piracy.

Personally I'm not bothered by this one bit *IF* Games on Demand/ new games drop in prices. If games stayed at $60 a pop all the time then I'd only be buying *maybe* 10 or so games a year. With CAG and all the insane $10 games I've been able to have a lot more purchasing power.
 
[quote name='n4styn4t3']I heard somewhere that more than half of 360s aren't connected to Live.[/QUOTE]

A lot of these are owned by kids who just don't care about going online. When it really comes down to it some people (a lot of people I know) just want to put a disk in and play, they don't want to deal with updates, installs, DLC and connecting to live even through xbox live silver which is free. Though the process is mostly seamless on xbox live after you get it set up still some people just can't be bothered to connect online.

Also just because people have broadband in their area doesn't mean they have it at their house and perhaps they can't afford it. Lots of houses here without internet access. Its a lot easier to afford a one-time christmas gift of a $200 console and a couple $20 games versus paying a $30-50 internet bill every month.
 
[quote name='Vader582']I think making the market smaller isn't necessarily bad. Too many devs/publishers are catering to the general public/new/casual gamer. I'd like to see some niche titles make a comeback next-gen. Thinning the herd may help do that.[/QUOTE]

It might help quality of titles geared towards core games but it won't help Microsoft at all. So it won't happen.

-----

Here's what a "no used disc policy" would mean:

1. Gamestop loses most of it's profit. They are pissed
2. Gamestop sells 70% (70 fucking percent) of 1st week sales.
3. Microsoft does not want to piss off gamestop/publishers because of the all important 1st week sales.
4. Whichever consoles doesn't go the no used games policy immediately gets the advantage and more positive press.

It's not gonna happen.
 
[quote name='confoosious']It might help quality of titles geared towards core games but it won't help Microsoft at all. So it won't happen.

-----

Here's what a "no used disc policy" would mean:

1. Gamestop loses most of it's profit. They are pissed
2. Gamestop sells 70% (70 fucking percent) of 1st week sales.
3. Microsoft does not want to piss off gamestop/publishers because of the all important 1st week sales.
4. Whichever consoles doesn't go the no used games policy immediately gets the advantage and more positive press.

It's not gonna happen.[/QUOTE]

I believe your numbers but number two blows my mind.

Sort of. Because I've seen the idiocy of people firsthand but still, blows the mind.

Back when Forza 2 came out, Circuit City offered a free $20 game with purchase. I remember getting Lego Star Wars II as my free game. On the way home, I passed a Gamestop and decided to check out their used games. Sure enough, some dude was in there buying Forza 2 straight up. No bonus, full price, no collector's edition. I don't expect everyone to come to CAG but holy crap. The guy probably knew the game was coming out for an extended period of time because he was picking it up on release day and at the time, Forza was less known that it is now. How do you not at least think for a second, "maybe some other retailer will have this cheaper."
 
Completely blew my mind too when I read it. I'll try to find a link.

edit: http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/28/ga...gen-consoles-wont-prevent-play-of-used-games/


For those worried used games would not work on the next generation of consoles, GameStop’s CEO Paul Raines has stated he expects no such restriction in the years to come.

In a recent earnings call, Raines said he believes “it’s unlikely that there would be that next-gen console because the model simply hasn’t been proven to work.”

Raines is of course referring to the large percentage for which used game sales account for the company. According to Gamasutra, last year, GameStop accrued $2.6 billion in used games and accessories, which translated to 27% of the company’s total sales. The more impressive number is the $1.2 billion in profit that can be attributed to used sales, which was 46% of GameStop’s total gross profits in 2011.

There has been no confirmation from any console manufacturer about the validity of these rumors, but GameStop would obviously hope to curb something that would lose them such a large profit margin. Yet none of that profit goes to the game developers and publishers, and the possibility of preventative measures does not sound farfetched.

The easiest way for console manufacturers to cut out used games would be to become all digital platforms, but to completely forgo physical media would quickly anger retail stores. Particularly when in 2010 GameStop accounted for 60% – 70% of first week game sales and for over 21% of the entire retail gaming market, as Digital Trends mentions along with Raines’ statement, consumers are showing little sign of wanting to abandon their game discs and cartridges.
Click to expand...
 
Even if gamestop some how go out of business people would still get their games at Walmart, Target, TRU, ect. Just like the music industry can survive without tower record, video game industry can do the same. Instead of letting gamestop control the direction market, Sony and MS wants to be the one in control. Going by a no used game system means that they willing to make short term sacrifice for long term gain.
 
[quote name='62t']Even if gamestop some how go out of business people would still get their games at Walmart, Target, TRU, ect. Just like the music industry can survive without tower record, video game industry can do the same. Instead of letting gamestop control the direction market, Sony and MS wants to be the one in control. Going by a no used game system means that they willing to make short term sacrifice for long term gain.[/QUOTE]

Given the precarious situation of the market, can any of them afford to take that risk? Is sony, who not exactly raking in the dough, gonna piss off their customers in the short term and ride it out for the long term? Maybe if they were operating in a vacuum. But they have nintendo and msft to deal with.

In order for one of them to succeed at it, they all must do it at the same time or the other companies have an advantage. It's not going to happen.
 
I would be fine if they went to Steam style digital gaming. New games would cost $60 and at times you could find games for insanely cheap like $2, $5, $7 etc.
 
If they don't allow me to buy used games then I won't buy it. Simple as that, they can go screw themselves. Let shitty sales show them this just won't work. Sony tried it with the PSP Go and failed terribly. It won't happen though so I'm not worried, not anytime soon that is. It's too risky of a move in which will most like result in failure
 
Removing the used game market would be burdensome at best for me. As an older gamer I'm finidng that I only really buy about 6-10 titles per year these days. I mostly buy new these days (with promotions and discounts etc.) but that is largely further subsidized by my selling of games I've finished. Removing the used market would probably push me down into about 3-5 titles per year I'd guess. I'm not sure it would be worth moving into the next generation at that point anyway. Though at this point in my life its questionable that I'd move into the next generation console anyway.

Like others have mentioned though, its a risky proposition for the console developers. If one goes that direction and the other doesn't, they immediately gain a very large markeshare. I buy one console per generation and I'm certain I'd choose the one that supported used games.

Now, online and/or digital distribution would be a far far greater impediment to my future as a gamer. No broadband access, despite being within 30 miles of a major metropolitan area, means digital distribution excludes me. Would be a bummer but, eh, there's a lot of hobbies out there vying for our time!
 
Gamestop will likely refuse to stock any console that does not allow used games to be played, since that would basically kill off GS's business model. Also when people buy a game at GS they expect to be able to trade it back in, if GS sold something that customers could not trade back in then that would just be bad business for them and they risk having customers not buy it at all or customers would become angry with them because they couldn't trade it back in and they risk losing customers over that.

Walmart and Target can survive because they sell products other than games that can keep their store afloat, since games have very thin profit margin's for retailers its very difficult for a game-exclusive store to exist on its own without selling other products. Gamestop is already selling used Apple products in some locations, so if anything we will see them diving into other products in order to stay afloat.

I can't see the next gen lasting except for the super rich and spoiled and those that absolutely must have it now if used games cease to exist, people are pretty satisfied with their Xbox 360's, Wii's and PS3's and I can bet a ton of customers wouldn't even move on to the next gen console if this happens. Not to mention the people that don't have access to broadband internet (or that simply don't want to connect their console online) that would automatically be excluded.

Hypothetically if Sony and MS both created a console where used games could not be played, and Nintendo allows used games just as the current gen I can see Nintendo taking over next gen easily, as being able to play a used game would be enough of an incentive for most people to purchase the Nintendo console.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']Also when people buy a game at GS they expect to be able to trade it back in, if GS sold something that customers could not trade back in then that would just be bad business for them and they risk having customers not buy it at all or customers would become angry with them because they couldn't trade it back in and they risk losing customers over that.[/QUOTE]

Skylanders. 'nuff said.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Skylanders. 'nuff said.[/QUOTE]

so I'm taking it that by naming one product out of thousands you are making some sort of point? :roll:

SaraAB is right. The ability to trade back into GS is a big draw for people.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']Gamestop will likely refuse to stock any console that does not allow used games to be played, since that would basically kill off GS's business model.[/QUOTE]

Did that stop them from selling the PSP Go?
 
[quote name='Thrinn']Did that stop them from selling the PSP Go?[/QUOTE]

That was a revision of an earlier system, not a brand new system like these are going to be. They still had the regular PSP to sell as well as the UMD games, and they could make a profit from people trading in their old PSP for the new PSP Go. Here we are talking about physical games being sold that cannot be traded back in.

There is no reason they couldn't take trade-in's on skylanders, from what I hear the figures can be wiped of all data then they can be re-used as new. But if they take trades on these they will probably be stuck with huge piles of unwanted skylanders once the fad dies off much like they were stuck with lots of big plastic instruments no one wants since the GH/Rock Band fad is over. I think GS knows how to pick its battles.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']That was a revision of an earlier system, not a brand new system like these are going to be. They still had the regular PSP to sell as well as the UMD games, and they could make a profit from people trading in their old PSP for the new PSP Go. Here we are talking about physical games being sold that cannot be traded back in.[/QUOTE]

They sell iPads as well. AFAIK they're not able to sell second-hand software for that.

The reason Gamestop sold the PSP Go was because they made about a $14 profit on each system sold whereas the traditional PSPs sold at cost (source).

Yes, the Go was a failure due mostly in part to its high price point. Sony probably walked away from the Go with a few lessons learned. They're going to have to take a larger loss on the hardware to allow more profit to go to retailers while keeping the overall retail cost in check, and in turn Sony will be able to completely control the software sales through PSN. For example, if the Vita Go hits and retailers are able to pocket $100 on each system sold AND the system doesn't cost more than a regular Vita, some will be desperate enough to make a quick buck that they'll sacrifice the ability to sell any software to the consumer.
 
[quote name='Thrinn']Did that stop them from selling the PSP Go?[/QUOTE]

No, smart consumers stopped them from selling the PSP Go.


ZING! :lol:
 
The PSP Go and iPad/iDevice would take up very little of their shelf space, with a new console, it would take up more shelf space. I don't think they really mind, since with the iDevices I am pretty sure its all used stuff at this point which means they are making profit on all of it. I don't think GS sells new iProducts.. but please correct me if I am wrong. With them selling iProducts they are hoping to hook the casual gamer and after they buy their iProduct at GS they will come back to the store to buy a real games console. At this point in time we don't even know if the consoles will be able to be used second hand. If they had to stock a game console and games like they do with the current gen and none of it was tradeable and profit margins stayed the same for retailers then I don't think that would go over too well since it would take up a lot of shelf space which could be filled by more profitable used product. Something will have to give somewhere if the games industry is going to go anti-used game. Consumers just won't shell out $60 per pop for video games with no option to trade and no options for discounts at all.

There is also the fact that customers will equate a physical disk game + case with being able to trade it in, when someone buys a PSP Go or an iPad they know what they are getting into and they know that the system is all digital so they can't trade anything in. We are talking about new territory with consumers here since we are speculating that there will be a split between physical media that can't be traded in and digital media which everyone is pretty used to by now. Its not easy to get every mass consumer to know about not being able to trade in a game especially since a lot of consumers only buy games as christmas gifts. We have to think of the average consumer here, as they are going to be the ones purchasing the products. The people who know what they are buying and whom are concious of what they are buying are a very small percentage of the game buying population.
 
[quote name='smallsharkbigbite']Not that I'd predict it, but the broadband connection could be in line with getting rid of the hard drive. They could raise the cost of Live to $60 a year and include cloud storage with the subscription. Then only offer USB drive alternatives as a way to push you towards Live and for people who won't purchase Live. Cloud storage is becoming a big thing and would allow them to cut the console price in the process.

Then of course you market it as never lose another game save or DLC. Xbox's next console, welcome to the future, welcome to the cloud.[/QUOTE]

Cloud storage is a very big part of Microsoft's general plans. The Windows 8 beta makes this very clear.

But there are practical considerations. A hard drive remains critical for transitioning sales towards more digital sales. That is the simplest way to eliminate the resale of used product. By never placing it in B&M outlets in the first place.

Broadband access is growing and the figures often don't factor for the demogrpahics of those who cannot get it yet. The most underserved markets also tend to be those least likely to buy a game console. Most of the people who are likely to embrace a console primarily served by online sales already have access. Great. But most of them only have so-so speeds and many have caps on their monthly usage, although this tends to be large enough that few should ever run up against them. (I probably run more material through my cable modem than all of my neighbors put together but I doubt I've ever gone over 250 GB up or down in any one month.)

Repeatedly having to download material tied to your account is not going to be popular. Waiting half an hour to start a big game while the rest continues to download in the background is acceptable on first usage but should never have to be repeated for lack of local storage. It should only come up if your pulling the game over to a different location where you've never used your account before.

This means big cheap local storage. Only one thing in existence meets that requirement: a spinning platter drive hard drive. If the new system is launching 2013 the current drive production hardships should be in the past. At a minimum I'd expect to see a 500 GB drive because that will be the lowest capacity still in production, using a single single-side platter with one read/write head. (For perspective, in the most recent big Friday Fry's Electronics ad, only the cheapest computer, a $290 laptop, had a hard drive smaller than 500 GB. The $450 AMD A6 model I bought last month came with a 750 GB drive.) A 1 TB drive will be an option with larger capacities as time goes on.

Amazing to think the 360 launched with a 20 GB drive. Even the SSD I used for a SRT cache in a new PC build this week was a 32 GB model. Works very nicely, BTW.

In addition to not subjecting consumers to repeat downloads, Microsoft doesn't want to be on the hook for greatly increased bandwidth consumption at their end. Bits that only need to be sent once are preferred.

There will be probably be an equivalent of the current 4 GB model with a larger flash drive but as now it will be a small portion of sales and intended mainly to allow a lower cost of entry to be advertised.
 
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