S&M ad repliers on Craigslist get outed.

Will

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*Did a quick search since Im about to get off so if this is a repost, Im sure Ill hear about it.

http://www.waxy.org/archive/2006/09/08/sex_bait.shtml

Recently, a blogger named Simon Owens ran a social experiment on Craigslist. He wandered into the "Casual Encounters" section of the personal ads where countless men and women were soliticing for no-strings-attached sex and wondered, Is it really that easy? As a test, he composed several ads with different permutations of assumed identity and sexual orientation: straight/bi men/women looking for the opposite/same sex. He then posted it to New York, Chicago, and Houston, and tallied the results.

Overwhelmingly and instantly, the ads from the fake women looking for male partners were inundated with responses, sometimes several per minute. All the other ads received lukewarm responses, at best. These results weren't surprising, but some of the observations were... Many of these men used their real names and included personally identifiable information, including work email addresses and home phone numbers. Several admitted they were married and cheating on their spouses. Many included photos, often nude.

His first conclusion was very reasonable: "If a really malicious person wanted to get on craigslist and ruin a lot of people's lives, he easily could."


Jason Fortuny's Craigslist Experiment
On Monday, a Seattle web developer named Jason Fortuny started his own Craigslist experiment. The goal: "Posing as a submissive woman looking for an aggressive dom, how many responses can we get in 24 hours?"

He took the text and photo from a sexually explicit ad (warning: not safe for work) in another area, reposted it to Craigslist Seattle, and waited for the responses to roll in. Like Simon's experiment, the response was immediate. He wrote, "178 responses, with 145 photos of men in various states of undress. Responses include full e-mail addresses (both personal and business addresses), names, and in some cases IM screen names and telephone numbers."

In a staggering move, he then published every single response, unedited and uncensored, with all photos and personal information to Encyclopedia Dramatica (kinda like Wikipedia for web fads and Internet drama). Read the responses (warning: sexually explicit material).

Instantly, commenters on the LiveJournal thread started identifying the men. Dissenters emailed the guys to let them know they were scammed. Several of them were married, which has led to what will likely be the first of many separations. One couple in an open marriage begged that their information be removed, as their religious family and friends weren't aware of their lifestyle. Another spotted a fellow Microsoft employee, based on their e-mail address. And it's really just the beginning, since the major search engines haven't indexed these pages yet. After that, who knows? Divorces, firings, lawsuits, and the assorted hell that come from having your personal sex life listed as the first search result for your name.

Possibly the strangest thing about this sex baiting prank is that the man behind it is unabashedly open about his own identity. A graphic artist in Kirkland, Washington, Jason has repeatedly posted his contact information, including home phone, address, and photos. He's already received one threat of physical violence. Is he oblivious to the danger, or does he just not care? Since his stated interest is "pushing people's buttons," I'm guessing the latter. (See update: Jason's been removing contact information from his sites, so some of these links are now broken.)


Legality and Privacy
But was any law actually broken? Fortuny obviously misrepresented himself under false pretenses, which is itself possibly actionable, but the privacy implications beyond that are very interesting. Does emailing someone your personal information act as an implicit waiver of your right to privacy? I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I can tell, no.

If taken to court, he's at risk of two primary civil claims. "Intentional infliction of emotional distress," while notoriously hard to prove in court, is certainly easier here based on his own writings. The second, more relevant claim, is "public disclosure of private facts." This Findlaw article on the Washingtonienne scandal sums it up nicely:

The disclosure must be public. The facts must be private. The plaintiff must be identified. The publication must be "highly offensive." And there must be an "absence of legitimate concern to the public" with respect to the publication.

It certainly seems like this clearly fits the criteria for a tort claim, but I'd love to hear some legal interpretation from the law bloggers out there. Does volunteering your information in a private context somehow invalidate your privacy rights? I don't think so. (For more information, see the EFF's Bloggers' FAQ on Privacy.)

I contacted Anil Dash, VP of LiveJournal's parent company Six Apart, to see how he felt about the breaking drama. He was clearly disturbed by it, but after contacting LJ's support staff, realized there wasn't much they could do. If they find abusive information, they act quickly to remove it, but in this case, all the identifiable information is on a third-party site. "There are always people who aren't going to be productive members of a community. We try to be consistent in honoring requests if an individual's personal info is being posted without their permission," said Anil. "The hard part, of course, is that nobody can control every site on the web, so there's always somewhere else for a person to go if they really want to be malicious or destructive.."

I haven't contacted Craigslist, but it's clear that as this story develops, it will inevitably have a profound impact on the community. A friend put it simply: "Adults are stupid on the Internet." More likely, their expectations of privacy just haven't been fundamentally challenged yet. They send naked photos of themselves to strangers because it helps get them noticed by the women they're emailing, and it's never backfired on them.

On a final note, this is just getting started. Sex baiting is so simple and so effective, I thought immediately that others would be inspired to do the same thing. And yesterday morning, a commenter confirmed that the first copycat prank is already complete in Craigslist Portland. 94 replies so far, with 60 photos. It won't be the last.

September 10: Jason Fortuny modified his homepage to remove all references to his professional life: portfolio, resume, and references to past clients are all gone. (Compare to the older versions on the Internet Archive.) It also looks like he's been scrubbing his personal contact information from his Livejournal comments and homepage. For example, this link from my post originally went to a comment with his contact information, but it's been removed entirely. (Strangely, he didn't remove his home address and phone number from this entry.) Also, Encyclopedia Dramatica has been down intermittently all day, presumably because of the traffic.

September 11: Jason Fortuny's web server is now down entirely, possibly because of today's Slashdot coverage. (One commenter claims to live in the same apartment building as Fortuny.) Other recent notable media mentions: BBC News, and Wired's Ryan Singel has coverage and a response to commenters. The New York Times article is slated for tomorrow.

Update, Part 2: Jason Fortuny sent an email to Tucker Max for advice (himself Internet-famous for posting his sexual exploits online). In the email, Jason notes that he's been flooded with thousands of phone calls and has since changed his phone number. In a followup post to that message board, he states clearly he wants to capitalize on the controversy: "Let's milk this. All the way... There must be a way to combine this. Into money. Money is important. Money is good." He's planning on setting up a dedicated website for his exploits, either on his Rfjason.com site or on the Craigslistsexbaits.com domain registered by Tucker Max.

He also distances himself from Encyclopedia Dramatica, claiming that they scraped his Livejournal and that he has little control over the site, but is "working to get the personally identifiably information redacted." (This doesn't make sense, since he claims to have editing rights on the protected page.) For more information, read the complete set of his posts and his friend Wendy Miller.
 
fuck. that guy's going to get himself killed. but whatever, he's scum, plain and simple.
 
I was reading up on this guy today. Seems like a real douchebag, and will probably be sued and fired from his job. Would you trust someone like that with confidential information?

Adults are retarded when it comes to sex...especially us guys. Oh well...

I guess the lesson is don't be a retardicon and post your personal info on the net, or send it to a stranger.
 
[quote name='Apossum']fuck. that guy's going to get himself killed. but whatever, he's scum, plain and simple.[/quote]

I bet those men's wives don't agree.
 
[quote name='neocisco']I bet those men's wives don't agree.[/QUOTE]


..........I really hope you're not implying this justifies this guy's actions.

edited for clarity
 
[quote name='Apossum']..........I really hope you're not implying this makes it all better.[/quote]

Not necessarily. Personally, though, I think any man cheating on his wife deserves whatever comes his way. It just so happens that this batch of guys fell in the deep end of the pool. They'll get zero sympathy from me.
 
I think thats jacked up. fF you get caught trying to pick up a street walker. Then yes you get whats coming to you.

However I bet most of those men that replied would have never went to the "date" even if it was a real girl. Not saying that makes it any better. But how many people follow up to what they say there going to do on the internet. Very few, the internet is the place people meet to fulfill fantansy's (without physical interaction) its that simple.
 
stallowned.gif
 
[quote name='neocisco']Not necessarily. Personally, though, I think any man cheating on his wife deserves whatever comes his way. It just so happens that this batch of guys fell in the deep end of the pool. They'll get zero sympathy from me.[/QUOTE]


I gotta agree. If you went to the trouble of responding to the ad, you would have followed through. Maybe not this time, but you would have.

Falls under the same principal as child porn. If you've actively searched it out, chances are you're going to act on it at some point. And with this, the moral implications are a lot less, so I'd have to say you're even more apt to cheat.


Here's a question for the others: what's worse, the men who cheat, or the guy who exposes them?
 
[quote name='neocisco']Not necessarily. Personally, though, I think any man cheating on his wife deserves whatever comes his way. It just so happens that this batch of guys fell in the deep end of the pool. They'll get zero sympathy from me.[/QUOTE]


agreed. nobody's a winner here. very sketchy situation all around :lol:
 
Keep in mind that there's more here than the married guys cheating on their wives. They're all dumbasses for giving private information to any "girl" on the internet, but I don't think most people here would appreciate co-workers and other people knowing their sexual proclivities. Those are the people I have some sympathy for, even if I'm not down with their scene.

But other than that, the cheaters are busted, and this guy will get sued, so some of them will get what they deserve.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']fuck the men thats what I say. Cheaters shouldnt be doing it. The single guys need to sue though as they have every right.[/QUOTE]

If you're dumb enough to have sent 'a girl' naked pictures of you and your business email, I think at that point you should find a huge rock to crawl under and call it a day.
 
There are no winners in this, everyone involved is a loser. A special fuck to the guy that pulled of this prank and is now trying to milk it for money. What a fucker.
 
This is hilarious. Internet, you give me such humor.

I dont know if any lawsuit against that guy will win, but it will certainly be costly to defend. No sympathy to the fools sending their personal info willy-nilly to an anonymous address on Craigslist. Whatever you are into, there are more secure venues than Craigslist...
 
It's all very very sad. Alot of marriages will be over very soon and it's all because of this prick and his little scam. Would it be a different story if it was actually a woman? What if the woman got pissed that she got stood up and posted his information? Would that be a different story?

Don't the police use the same tactics for underage sex stings though? They can still get convictions even if a guy doesn't ever follow through. I don't know how this all ties together but I'm sure if you send someone a dick pic you should expect to eventually get out to the public.
 
[quote name='depascal22']It's all very very sad. Alot of marriages will be over very soon and it's all because of this prick and his little scam. [/QUOTE]
I agree that it is sad, but I think the marriages will be over because the dudes got caught solicitng extra-marital poon...so I wouldn't say that it is ALL the exposer's fault.
 
[quote name='organicow']I agree that it is sad, but I think the marriages will be over because the dudes got caught solicitng extra-marital poon...so I wouldn't say that it is ALL the exposer's fault.[/quote]

Yeah, I agree with you. Eventually, some of them would have been busted but who knows how many diseases they might have exposed their wives to in the process.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']people shouldnt be sendin images of their weiners to strangers[/QUOTE]


But is it okay for Cheapy to send his balls over Xbox Live?
 
[quote name='nadsofed']HAHAHA! They deserve to get outed. That guy is awesome, more power to him.[/QUOTE]


okay, I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of nazi germany and/or utopic dictatorships ala 1984. this guy's work is by trash for trash, no offense. not that some of these people he's outing aren't in the wrong.
 
[quote name='niceguyshawne']But is it okay for Cheapy to send his balls over Xbox Live?[/QUOTE]

Awesome. :D
 
[quote name='depascal22']It's all very very sad. Alot of marriages will be over very soon and it's all because of this prick and his little scam[/QUOTE]

It's all because of his scam? The words, "all because", imply he single handely drove to every persons house and convinced them to send out personal info.

Dont fall into the trap of blaming the messenger. He may well be a jerk, but the fault lies almost entirely for the fools sending out their info.
 
[quote name='iufoltzie']
Dont fall into the trap of blaming the messenger. He may well be a jerk, but the fault lies almost entirely for the fools sending out their info.[/QUOTE]

Exactly... if you didn't want anyone to find out about what you're doing, don't send your personal and business email addresses along with phone numbers and naked shots of yourself, simple as that.
 
IF it breaks up a marriage, then the wives are better off without guys like that who are so willing to cheat so easily with complete strangers. I actually feel bad for the guy who pulled the prank, he will get sued into the poor house and some perv who wanted dom sex will get rich.

As a social experiment I found it interesting, as a money making scheme I think it was wrong. If his sole aim was to get money out of it, then I would think it borders on fraud or at least in the same category as those email scams since he knew he would get some personal info out of it.
 
I did an experiment like this myself.

I said I was a 20ish college girl home on break and wanted to have some cheap fun.

I got over 150 emails in 24 hours. lots of wang.

I never actually thought to publish the information though... A lot of these guys are totally scummy fucks and the others are just average losers that can't get a girl face to face.
 
[quote name='Kayden']I did an experiment like this myself.

I said I was a 20ish college girl home on break and wanted to have some cheap fun.

I got over 150 emails in 24 hours. lots of wang.

I never actually thought to publish the information though... A lot of these guys are totally scummy fucks and the others are just average losers that can't get a girl face to face.[/quote]

PM sent.:drool:
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Falls under the same principal as child porn. If you've actively searched it out, chances are you're going to act on it at some point. And with this, the moral implications are a lot less, so I'd have to say you're even more apt to cheat.[/QUOTE]
By that same logic, one could say that if you've actively played violent video games, chances are you're going to act on it at some point.

If you've recently purchased a firearm, I would be more convinced of your intent, but otherwise, it's all in your mind.

I'm not defending kiddie porn or cheaters. I'm just putting a mirror to your specious reasoning.

Speaking of intent, what does the law have to say about it, javeryh?
 
Thats a really great horrible analogy. These guys are responding to personal adds with nekkid pictures and personal contact information. How does that even come close to a sign someone playing a game is going to hurt someone? Its not like they're buying a game called "Play This Game If You Want To Kill Someone In Real Life!".

[quote name='radjago']By that same logic, one could say that if you've actively played violent video games, chances are you're going to act on it at some point.

If you've recently purchased a firearm, I would be more convinced of your intent, but otherwise, it's all in your mind.

I'm not defending kiddie porn or cheaters. I'm just putting a mirror to your specious reasoning.

Speaking of intent, what does the law have to say about it, javeryh?[/quote]
 
I skimmed over this, it's disturbing. I don't like the guy because he shouldn't have taken private conversations and made them public, there was NO point, is he THAT bored? Or is he just that mentally insane?

More than anything, that thing at the bottom of the wikipedia entry about some guy from another message board where the person who did prank is banned..

I never knew such a huge world [the internet] had such tiny little cliques

Damn starbucks drinking cynical indie music listening raggedy lazy looking 30 somethings.
 
This dude is a scumbag. Plain and simple. It's one thing to start a social experiment or try to catch criminals (woohoo Dateline!) but starting websites to try and make money on things like this is f'd up.

However, this brings up something I was doing just last week. I work as the IT guy and only real computer savvy person at a small 50-man sales company. They were looking to hire a few new sales assistants and when the sales manager mentioned to me she was interviewing a lot of younger people (just out of college mainly) I asked if I could take a look at the resumes and do a little research.

So onto Myspace I go and do a search based on the email addresses from the resumes. Wow. What a crew I find.

And here's the ethical question. Do I show the sales manager that her top picks have pot leaf backrounds and "love to smoke blunts and go partying"? Clearly the candidates never meant to show this to a future employer, but its out there and they put it voluntarilly on the web to display to everyone (Myspace does have a feature to block profile views publically).

I think I may just print everything out and when they are in for a second interview, walk in and just ask, "Really. What were you thinking?"
 
[quote name='radjago']Speaking of intent, what does the law have to say about it, javeryh?[/quote]

Intent rarely (if ever) matters. You could buy a gun with the intent to kill everyone you see but if you don't attempt it or actually kill someone you aren't breaking any laws. You could also shoot your gun and not intend to harm anyone but if you do holy shit are you in trouble.
 
[quote name='jalu6']This dude is a scumbag. Plain and simple. It's one thing to start a social experiment or try to catch criminals (woohoo Dateline!) but starting websites to try and make money on things like this is f'd up.

However, this brings up something I was doing just last week. I work as the IT guy and only real computer savvy person at a small 50-man sales company. They were looking to hire a few new sales assistants and when the sales manager mentioned to me she was interviewing a lot of younger people (just out of college mainly) I asked if I could take a look at the resumes and do a little research.

So onto Myspace I go and do a search based on the email addresses from the resumes. Wow. What a crew I find.

And here's the ethical question. Do I show the sales manager that her top picks have pot leaf backrounds and "love to smoke blunts and go partying"? Clearly the candidates never meant to show this to a future employer, but its out there and they put it voluntarilly on the web to display to everyone (Myspace does have a feature to block profile views publically).

I think I may just print everything out and when they are in for a second interview, walk in and just ask, "Really. What were you thinking?"[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't know, I think it's ethical because it's kind of unfair to the people who weren't her top picks if a truth becomes hidden like this..

Scumbags, losers, and hoodlums can put on a good face and dress up and make the best impression

And decent, lawful, good people try as hard as they can and simply don't make a big mark

But if there's proof that those that made the best impression really aren't what they seem to be, why should they be the top picks?

I say you show it to him/her....I think it's fair..if I gave you a business card with my website, I'm telling you to find about more about me

If I give you a whole resume, references, and an email address, plus my social and my ID, yeah, I'm GIVING you consent to look up everything about me..criminal records and credit goes only so far, if putting that email into google or myspace brings up the truth and I considered the truth good enough to put online where millions can see, then I shouldn't even question if an employer decided to look all that information up

Precislely why I don't have, never will have, and never will use MySpace.
 
[quote name='jalu6']This dude is a scumbag. Plain and simple. It's one thing to start a social experiment or try to catch criminals (woohoo Dateline!) but starting websites to try and make money on things like this is f'd up.

However, this brings up something I was doing just last week. I work as the IT guy and only real computer savvy person at a small 50-man sales company. They were looking to hire a few new sales assistants and when the sales manager mentioned to me she was interviewing a lot of younger people (just out of college mainly) I asked if I could take a look at the resumes and do a little research.

So onto Myspace I go and do a search based on the email addresses from the resumes. Wow. What a crew I find.

And here's the ethical question. Do I show the sales manager that her top picks have pot leaf backrounds and "love to smoke blunts and go partying"? Clearly the candidates never meant to show this to a future employer, but its out there and they put it voluntarilly on the web to display to everyone (Myspace does have a feature to block profile views publically).

I think I may just print everything out and when they are in for a second interview, walk in and just ask, "Really. What were you thinking?"[/quote]

Haha - what a bunch of dumbasses. It sucks though because I'm pretty sure no one would ever get hired if your boss had real insight into who you really were.
 
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