Santa Claus = new religious figure

D

dtcarson

CAGiversary!
Yay, political correctness/zero tolerance. More like zero commonsense.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/hampton/12212004/news/55149.htm

Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

By Patrick Cronin
[email protected]

HAMPTON - A parent of a Hampton Academy Junior High School student says the principal of the school told his son to leave the school’s holiday dance on Friday night because the boy was dressed in a Santa Claus costume, which was politically incorrect.

Michael Lafond said his son, Bryan, went to the dance dressed as Santa because it was a holiday party.

"He asked if he could dress like Santa and we said yes," said Lafond. "We went to Brooks and purchased the outfit and everything."

Lafond said his wife dropped off Bryan at the school.

"I went to the dance with my friend," said Bryan Lafond, who is in seventh grade. "He had an elf hat on and we thought it was pretty cool. Everyone loved the suit, but when I went by the principal, he asked why I was dressed like that."

Principal Fred Muscara said he told the boy he couldn’t get into the dance because he was wearing the costume.

"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party. There is a separation of church and state. We have a lot of students that go to Hampton Academy Junior High that have different religions. We have to be sensitive to that."

Bryan said while Muscara didn’t say he had to leave, he told Bryan if he wanted to go the dance he would have to change out of the suit and put on proper attire for the dance.

Having nothing to change into, Bryan left the dance to try and find his mother.

"My wife was leaving the parking lot when she saw Bryan running out of the building," said Lafond. "He told her that the principal said it was politically incorrect to wear the Santa outfit."

"I saw him running out of the building crying," said Leslie Lafond, Bryan’s mother.

Lafond said while he disagrees with their reasoning he could almost understand it.

What he couldn’t understand was why his son was able to leave the dance.

"One of reasons why we are so angry is that the school has a policy that says once you go to the dance you can’t leave until it’s over," said Lafond. "You can’t leave school grounds unless they call a parent. If my wife wasn’t there, my son would have been out roaming the streets."

Bryan’s mother picked up her son and drove him home to change.

Lafond said his wife had to persuade Bryan to go back to the dance.

"He was so embarrassed," said Lafond. "It wasn’t like he was trying to pull a prank. He is just a good-natured kid getting into the holiday spirit who just happened to walk right by Scrooge."

Muscara said he was unaware that Bryan left the dance.

"I asked if he had something he could change into and he said he did," said Muscara.

Lafond said when his wife drove Bryan back to the dance, she complained to school officials.

She said she also complained to several School Board members and Muscara.

On Monday, Bryan’s parents went before the School Board to voice their concerns.

"I don’t want this to happen again," said Leslie. "It is unacceptable. When Bryan returned to the school, the principal said, ‘What are you doing, trying to get me fired.’ That is not a proper comment to make to a student."

Superintendent James Gaylord told the School Board it would discuss the matter in non-public session because it involved a student and personnel.

When contacted at her house Monday afternoon, Hampton School Board Chairman Nancy Serpis said she was concerned with what she heard.

"We need to look at the whole situation," said Serpis.

Lafond said political correctness is getting out of control.

"I don’t get it," said Lafond, citing a PTA breakfast with Santa at the school a couple of weeks ago.

"What’s next? Are they going to get rid of Halloween because of paganism?" he asked.

"The last time I checked, Christmas was the celebration of the birth of Christ and not Santa Claus," Leslie said. "I want them to make an apology to my son. My son was humiliated."

end

"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party. There is a separation of church and state. We have a lot of students that go to Hampton Academy Junior High that have different religions. We have to be sensitive to that."

WTF? He can say this with a straight face? What does Santa Claus [nowadays] have to do with 'church and state'? Not to mention the apparent misunderstanding of what 'separation of church and state' even means.
 
yeah sure, since we all know how santa is big friends with Jesus.

I mean really, what kinda Bullshit it that ? If I went to that school I would TP & Egg the shit out of lady's house. And I'm sure I could get like 1/2 of the school to help me.

I can't wait till easter runs around and people can't wear bunny ears because they are not PC.
 
Yeah the principal is an idiot. So what if the kid wanted to dress up. It's all in fun. I seriously doubt any non-Christian 7th-graders are going to be literally offended.

And Santa Claus is really more of a commercial figure than a religious figure. That's my opinion anyway. People really need to lighten up.
 
Exactly. 'Santa Claus' was based on a real person, Saint Nicholas, [Sinterklaas] but, oh, about 300 years ago he became extremely secularized. In fact, the practice of getting gifts [other than sweets, nuts, and fruits for stockings] can be linked back to Macy's, who stayed open late one Christmas Eve.
 
I don't give a shit, but I will ask you this..

Does Santa a figure of Thanksgiving? The Fourt of July?

No, he is a religious figure. Jewish people might complain because they don't have a figure. lol

I don't even believe in God and I still have to scelibrate XMas.
 
Well, how can it be a holiday party if you don't recognize any of the holidays of the season? What's the secular holiday of this time of year? Life Day?
 
[quote name='Scrubking']And who do we have to thank for this attack on Xmas? Why liberals of course.[/quote]

OMG! Xmas! You're trying to take the Christ out of Christmas! YOU'RE a liberal!
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Scrubking']And who do we have to thank for this attack on Xmas? Why liberals of course.[/quote]

OMG! Xmas! You're trying to take the Christ out of Christmas! YOU'RE a liberal![/quote]

Scrubking just walked into that one, didn't he?
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Scrubking']And who do we have to thank for this attack on Xmas? Why liberals of course.[/quote]

OMG! Xmas! You're trying to take the Christ out of Christmas! YOU'RE a liberal![/quote]

Scrubking just walked into that one, didn't he?[/quote]

Scrubking=Michael Moore. He's just trying to make upstanding conservatives look bad by pretending to be a ginormous retard.
 
Man, you people are really dumb, but I'll leave you to your delusions that Xmas isn't trying to be eliminted by liberal organizations like the ACLU.

Oh, and please feel free to post the long list of conservatives that I know you have :roll: that want to eliminate xmas and replace it with "holiday season".
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Man, you people are really dumb, but I'll leave you to your delusions that Xmas isn't trying to be eliminted by liberal organizations like the ACLU.

Oh, and please feel free to post the long list of conservatives that I know you have :roll: that want to eliminate xmas and replace it with "holiday season".[/quote]

Whatever, Ted Kennedy! Go back to Russia!
 
[quote name='Scrubking']
Oh, and please feel free to post the long list of conservatives that I know you have :roll: that want to eliminate xmas and replace it with "holiday season".[/quote]

Why?

You have never answered most of the real hard questions here, so why should we?
 
[quote name='jmcc']Well, how can it be a holiday party if you don't recognize any of the holidays of the season? What's the secular holiday of this time of year? Life Day?[/quote]

First off, it's called the Winter Solstice. Shortest day of the year is around Xmas time.

Second, it seems the principel didn't let him in for not meeting the dress code. (Bryan said while Muscara didn’t say he had to leave, he told Bryan if he wanted to go the dance he would have to change out of the suit and put on proper attire for the dance.) Our school for example requires that males wear ties to goto certain dances.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice
 
[quote name='gamefreak'][quote name='jmcc']Well, how can it be a holiday party if you don't recognize any of the holidays of the season? What's the secular holiday of this time of year? Life Day?[/quote]

First off, it's called the Winter Solstice. Shortest day of the year is around Xmas time.

Second, it seems the principel didn't let him in for not meeting the dress code. (Bryan said while Muscara didn’t say he had to leave, he told Bryan if he wanted to go the dance he would have to change out of the suit and put on proper attire for the dance.) Our school for example requires that males wear ties to goto certain dances.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice[/quote]

Sorry, but that would be the celebration of Neopagan Sabbat. :)
JMCC has a point.
 
If it was because of not fitting a dress code, as long as that dress code was applied consistently, then I don't have a problem with it.
But then where does the 'church and state' thing come in?
It was called a Holiday party, which doesn't necessarily imply a religious holiday [4th of July and Memorial Day are holidays], but at this time of year, odds are it used to be called a Christmas party. Unless he's British, and Holiday means Vacation, which I doubt.
If anything, it should be 'winter party' or 'season party' or 'end of year party'. I hope no one would think any of those are 'offensive' to a religion.
 
Holiday, word origin:

(from “holy day”), originally, a day of dedication to religious observance; in modern times, a day of either religious or secular commemoration. Many holidays of the major world religions tend to occur at the approximate dates of more ancient, pagan festivals. In the case of Christianity, this is sometimes owing to the policy of the early church of scheduling Christian…
Click to expand...

The simple use of this word can connote a religious implication and should be banned from all public school calenders immediately.
 
Holiday-

A day free from work that one may spend at leisure, especially a day on which custom or the law dictates a halting of general business activity to commemorate or celebrate a particular event.
A religious feast day; a holy day.
Chiefly British. A vacation. Often used in the phrase on holiday.


Words really mean nothing, look up different words in different dictionaryies and you will get different things.

But it's just dumb to say Merry Christmas to people that could be Jewish or that dumbass religion that knocks on your door.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Man, you people are really dumb, but I'll leave you to your delusions that Xmas isn't trying to be eliminted by liberal organizations like the ACLU.

Oh, and please feel free to post the long list of conservatives that I know you have :roll: that want to eliminate xmas and replace it with "holiday season".[/quote]

No one is trying to take the Christ out of Christmas. That is just more whining from the right.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Man, you people are really dumb, but I'll leave you to your delusions that Xmas isn't trying to be eliminted by liberal organizations like the ACLU.

Oh, and please feel free to post the long list of conservatives that I know you have :roll: that want to eliminate xmas and replace it with "holiday season".[/quote]


Yes, liberals are trying to take the Christ out of Christmans. In fact a school had suspended for one day kids who were handing out candy canes with religious messages on them. Oh wait a minute, those kids were DEFENDED by the ACLU.
http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRights.cfm?ID=11876&c=159

OK Scrubking, why don't you name some big name liberals who are trying to take the Christ out of Christmas.
 
Should we also discuss the farce that is Christmas and the fact that he was inserted into an already existing celebration of the winter solstice that existed far longer than the christos ?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Should we also discuss the farce that is Christmas and the fact that he was inserted into an already existing celebration of the winter solstice that existed far longer than the christos ?[/quote]

the farce that is Christmas ?
Watch your words. That's a very imflamatory statement, and you give little to back it up.
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']Should we also discuss the farce that is Christmas and the fact that he was inserted into an already existing celebration of the winter solstice that existed far longer than the christos ?[/quote]

the farce that is Christmas ?
Watch your words. That's a very imflamatory statement, and you give little to back it up.[/quote]

Eh. Given that it's agreed upon by scholars on the subject that Jesus wasn't born on the 25th or even in December it's not a stretch to call it a farce, I don't think.
 
It's amusing that most Christians don't know the history behind their own holy-days. Never questioning the reasons why they celebrate things at certain times and who decided when they should be observed and what they should stand for.

Humans have been celebrating the "birth" of the "sun" for centuries before the modern myth was grafted onto this sacred solar point in time. Christmas is a fairly modern invention - created by men, not god.
 
I would also be curious to know, how many of the people that are crying that liberals are trying to take Christ out of Christmas actually go to church on Christmas, or attend church regularly.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']It's amusing that most Christians don't know the history behind their own holy-days. Never questioning the reasons why they celebrate things at certain times and who decided when they should be observed and what they should stand for.

Humans have been celebrating the "birth" of the "sun" for centuries before the modern myth was grafted onto this sacred solar point in time. Christmas is a fairly modern invention - created by men, not god.[/quote]

I think you're underestimating most people. Many people are quite aware that many rituals in many faiths are co-opted from previous (and now likely extant) religions. Many people are aware than biblical scholars place Christ's birth in either late summer or fall

Just because Christians choose to observe Jesus' birth on or near the Winter Solstice does not automatically make thier celebration "a farce".
The day is unimportant. It's the meaning behind the celebration that is important. Most practicioners realized this... heck, in the 17th century, Massachusetts puritans tried to ban the celebration of Christmas on the 25th because of the heathen roots the celebration had.

Christmas is a fairly modern invention - created by men, not god.

As are most religious festivals. I highly doubt anyone is going to say that they were divinely inspired to have Christmas be celebrated on Dec. 25th.
It's current placement likely has more to do with the fact that the Christian festivals replaced the celebrations that were native to the certain areas... and for most of the native religions, the celebration of the Winter Solstice was one of the most important festivals.

I hardly think this makes Christmas a "farce".
The celebration could occur on any other day of the year, and still be just as important.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']And who do we have to thank for this attack on Xmas? Why liberals of course.[/quote]

This attempt to force EVERYTHING into a liberals vs conservatives issue is one of the biggest problems in this country today. These issues are not black and white.

You should not be mad at "liberals." You should be mad at idiots who sue everytime their feelings are hurt, and the idiotic judges and juries who give them victories (thus leading to big settlements, thus leading to more retarded lawsuits, etc).

I would probably be classified as a liberal, but I hate frivolous lawsuits and this horrible "PC" disease that is sweeping the nation today. (I also dislike warmongering neocoms, as an aside).
 
[quote name='JSweeney']

I think you're underestimating most people. Many people are quite aware that many rituals in many faiths are co-opted from previous (and now likely extant) religions. [/quote]

Esepcially now that hald the country has read The DaVinci Code ;)

Seriously, though, JSweeney makes an excellent point.
 
[quote name='Backlash'][quote name='JSweeney']

I think you're underestimating most people. Many people are quite aware that many rituals in many faiths are co-opted from previous (and now likely extant) religions. [/quote]

Esepcially now that hald the country has read The DaVinci Code ;)

Seriously, though, JSweeney makes an excellent point.[/quote]

No kidding. Give a somebody a copy of Angels and Demons and the DaVinci Code and they think they're symbology experts.
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='Backlash'][quote name='JSweeney']

I think you're underestimating most people. Many people are quite aware that many rituals in many faiths are co-opted from previous (and now likely extant) religions. [/quote]

Esepcially now that hald the country has read The DaVinci Code ;)

Seriously, though, JSweeney makes an excellent point.[/quote]

No kidding. Give a somebody a copy of Angels and Demons and the DaVinci Code and they think they're symbology experts.[/quote]

Yes, that author reads like a poor man's Umberto Eco. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='bmulligan']It's amusing that most Christians don't know the history behind their own holy-days. Never questioning the reasons why they celebrate things at certain times and who decided when they should be observed and what they should stand for.

Humans have been celebrating the "birth" of the "sun" for centuries before the modern myth was grafted onto this sacred solar point in time. Christmas is a fairly modern invention - created by men, not god.[/quote]

I think you're underestimating most people. Many people are quite aware that many rituals in many faiths are co-opted from previous (and now likely extant) religions. Many people are aware than biblical scholars place Christ's birth in either late summer or fall

Just because Christians choose to observe Jesus' birth on or near the Winter Solstice does not automatically make thier celebration "a farce".
The day is unimportant. It's the meaning behind the celebration that is important. Most practicioners realized this... heck, in the 17th century, Massachusetts puritans tried to ban the celebration of Christmas on the 25th because of the heathen roots the celebration had.

Christmas is a fairly modern invention - created by men, not god.

As are most religious festivals. I highly doubt anyone is going to say that they were divinely inspired to have Christmas be celebrated on Dec. 25th.
It's current placement likely has more to do with the fact that the Christian festivals replaced the celebrations that were native to the certain areas... and for most of the native religions, the celebration of the Winter Solstice was one of the most important festivals.

I hardly think this makes Christmas a "farce".
The celebration could occur on any other day of the year, and still be just as important.[/quote]

c'mon sweeny, I think we both may agree that most christians are 'literals' in the sense they believe the bible as written and subject to interpretation only by the leader of their own branch of faith. That they do place importance in the calendar date of spiritual 'events' as if they hold special significance. Yeah, the 'message' is paramount but the cultural colloquialism that pervades our society is to be "filled with christmas spirit" is heard exclusively at christmas time and the call to behave nicely because "tis the season" doesn't spring from tongue in July. Not many are aware that their rituals were co-opted, not many are aware of bibical scholars theories. And most immediately disbelieve anything contrary to social tradition.

The fact that most reserve their 'christmas' behavior to the month of December makes the significance of the 'day' all too obvious. If the message was indeed the only motivator, then the actual day would not be necessary at all, and signifying a date amounts to no less than a 'farce' by idolizing it's chronological significance along with it's content.
 
c'mon sweeny, I think we both may agree that most christians are 'literals' in the sense they believe the bible as written and subject to interpretation only by the leader of their own branch of faith.

See, I don't agree with that. I think that may apply to a subset, but with many churches that doesn't make sense. Heck, go to two different Catholic Churches on the same sunday, and you'll hear each priest give a different interpretation of the same passages.

That they do place importance in the calendar date of spiritual 'events' as if they hold special significance. Yeah, the 'message' is paramount but the cultural colloquialism that pervades our society is to be "filled with christmas spirit" is heard exclusively at christmas time and the call to behave nicely because "tis the season" doesn't spring from tongue in July.

Most churches put significance with the date of the celebration because the celebration itself is so significant.
You're lumping a whole lot of secular things into this... while not as intense because it's not filled with the secular trappings, there are plenty of people that are rather spiritual right around Easter as well.
You're lumping everything that is "Christmas" together, without considering where any of the influence is from.

Not many are aware that their rituals were co-opted, not many are aware of bibical scholars theories. And most immediately disbelieve anything contrary to social tradition.

I think you are wrong. You're talking majorities here, so you can't just go by what the vocal minority believes. Not to mention that "social tradition" is seeped with secular influence now.

The fact that most reserve their 'christmas' behavior to the month of December makes the significance of the 'day' all too obvious.

"Christmas" behavior? That's too vague a term to actually argue successfully. "Christmas Behavior" if it is what I think you think it is, is a strange amalgam of the religious and the secular.

If the message was indeed the only motivator, then the actual day would not be necessary at all, and signifying a date amounts to no less than a 'farce' by idolizing it's chronological significance along with it's content.

Festivals need dates if they are to be celebrated by all of the churches of a faith at the same time. There is not chronological significance to the date, other than it made it easier for Christianity to be accepted into new societies when it was introduced. It's the same reason why old symbols like the christmas tree are still accepted.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']c'mon sweeny, I think we both may agree that most christians are 'literals' in the sense they believe the bible as written and subject to interpretation only by the leader of their own branch of faith.

See, I don't agree with that. I think that may apply to a subset, but with many churches that doesn't make sense. Heck, go to two different Catholic Churches on the same sunday, and you'll hear each priest give a different interpretation of the same passages.

That they do place importance in the calendar date of spiritual 'events' as if they hold special significance. Yeah, the 'message' is paramount but the cultural colloquialism that pervades our society is to be "filled with christmas spirit" is heard exclusively at christmas time and the call to behave nicely because "tis the season" doesn't spring from tongue in July.

Most churches put significance with the date of the celebration because the celebration itself is so significant.
You're lumping a whole lot of secular things into this... while not as intense because it's not filled with the secular trappings, there are plenty of people that are rather spiritual right around Easter as well.
You're lumping everything that is "Christmas" together, without considering where any of the influence is from.

Not many are aware that their rituals were co-opted, not many are aware of bibical scholars theories. And most immediately disbelieve anything contrary to social tradition.

I think you are wrong. You're talking majorities here, so you can't just go by what the vocal minority believes. Not to mention that "social tradition" is seeped with secular influence now.

The fact that most reserve their 'christmas' behavior to the month of December makes the significance of the 'day' all too obvious.

"Christmas" behavior? That's too vague a term to actually argue successfully. "Christmas Behavior" if it is what I think you think it is, is a strange amalgam of the religious and the secular.

If the message was indeed the only motivator, then the actual day would not be necessary at all, and signifying a date amounts to no less than a 'farce' by idolizing it's chronological significance along with it's content.

Festivals need dates if they are to be celebrated by all of the churches of a faith at the same time. There is not chronological significance to the date, other than it made it easier for Christianity to be accepted into new societies when it was introduced. It's the same reason why old symbols like the christmas tree are still accepted.[/quote]

Sweeny, you're preaching to the choir. I'm not the one who needs a history lesson on religion, so you're either doing it for vanity's sake, or you agree with me that 'christians' don't really understand the contexts and rationalizations for their ceremonious behaviors. I'll just skip to the end so I can avoid your long-winded, content-less lectures and state that the entire christian religion is farcical. Organized religion are preaching the streetcorners while Yeshua is holds the red phone receiver to the almighty in the WC.
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='JSweeney']c'mon sweeny, I think we both may agree that most christians are 'literals' in the sense they believe the bible as written and subject to interpretation only by the leader of their own branch of faith.

See, I don't agree with that. I think that may apply to a subset, but with many churches that doesn't make sense. Heck, go to two different Catholic Churches on the same sunday, and you'll hear each priest give a different interpretation of the same passages.

That they do place importance in the calendar date of spiritual 'events' as if they hold special significance. Yeah, the 'message' is paramount but the cultural colloquialism that pervades our society is to be "filled with christmas spirit" is heard exclusively at christmas time and the call to behave nicely because "tis the season" doesn't spring from tongue in July.

Most churches put significance with the date of the celebration because the celebration itself is so significant.
You're lumping a whole lot of secular things into this... while not as intense because it's not filled with the secular trappings, there are plenty of people that are rather spiritual right around Easter as well.
You're lumping everything that is "Christmas" together, without considering where any of the influence is from.

Not many are aware that their rituals were co-opted, not many are aware of bibical scholars theories. And most immediately disbelieve anything contrary to social tradition.

I think you are wrong. You're talking majorities here, so you can't just go by what the vocal minority believes. Not to mention that "social tradition" is seeped with secular influence now.

The fact that most reserve their 'christmas' behavior to the month of December makes the significance of the 'day' all too obvious.

"Christmas" behavior? That's too vague a term to actually argue successfully. "Christmas Behavior" if it is what I think you think it is, is a strange amalgam of the religious and the secular.

If the message was indeed the only motivator, then the actual day would not be necessary at all, and signifying a date amounts to no less than a 'farce' by idolizing it's chronological significance along with it's content.

Festivals need dates if they are to be celebrated by all of the churches of a faith at the same time. There is not chronological significance to the date, other than it made it easier for Christianity to be accepted into new societies when it was introduced. It's the same reason why old symbols like the christmas tree are still accepted.[/quote]

Sweeny, you're preaching to the choir. I'm not the one who needs a history lesson on religion, so you're either doing it for vanity's sake, or you agree with me that 'christians' don't really understand the contexts and rationalizations for their ceremonious behaviors. I'll just skip to the end so I can avoid your long-winded, content-less lectures and state that the entire christian religion is farcical. Organized religion are preaching the streetcorners while Yeshua is holds the red phone receiver to the almighty in the WC.[/quote]

The religion or the church is farcical? Not everyone considers them the same thing.
 
Sweeny, you're preaching to the choir. I'm not the one who needs a history lesson on religion, so you're either doing it for vanity's sake, or you agree with me that 'christians' don't really understand the contexts and rationalizations for their ceremonious behaviors.

I completely disagree with you. Not as many christans are the "blind sheep" you believe them to be.

I'll just skip to the end so I can avoid your long-winded, content-less lectures and state that the entire christian religion is farcical. Organized religion are preaching the streetcorners while Yeshua is holds the red phone receiver to the almighty in the WC.

I find that to be a vile, tactless and utterly disrespectful statement.
Not only is it overly broad, it places everything from Jehova's Witnesses to Catholics to fundamentalists under the exact same banner... which is utterly ridiculous.
 
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