School Uniforms: Looking at both sides of the argument

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Dreadnought10

CAG Veteran
Most people in the world disapprove of the concept of school uniforms existing in public schools, despite this, a few individuals (primarily lower-class individuals living in England) approve of the concept. So let's just take a moment and look at the pros and cons of school uniforms.


Why school uniforms shouldn't ever exist in public schools:
-Students work better when they are able to choose their own attire.

-This is one thing that separates public schools from private schools, since private (often religious) schools have them, and public schools don't. If you want your son/daughter to wear a uniform, you send them to a private school, if not, then don't.

-Contrary to popular belief, real life school uniforms are (for the most part) not the sexy and revealing uniforms that anime shows, and they are usually hideous looking garbs.

-It gives students the ability to express themselves in a healthy and non-violent manner.

-Uniforms repress and punish individuality.

-Students who wear uniforms often find them uncomfortable.

-It's unnecessary totalitarianism and a limitation of freedoms.

-Uniforms have proven

-Uniforms do not prevent bullying.

-No one would listen to the rule, because you can't give someone freedom their entire life, and then just take it away, students, especially in high school, would just ignore the rule.

-If such a rule was ever passed, it would start protesting, riots, and rebellion. I've witnessed this first-hand when the school board of a district in my area tried to pass a rule requiring uniforms, and many students and parents protested and started a petition, banning the passage of their uniform rule.

-Uniforms are often expensive, more expensive than normal clothing. Also, bear in mind that it is not required to have the latest and greatest most popular fashion.

-Most students dress appropriately anyway, and most responsible school boards do have some minor guidelines prohibiting too revealing or inappropriate clothing from being worn (i.e. coming to school in your underwear, or wearing a shirt that advocates using meth).

-Uniforms wouldn't stop gangs if such gangs existed (there are no gangs in my area, so I wouldn't know much about that). Assigning a uniform would just be trying to blanket the gang issue, instead of getting to the heart of the problem (putting an end to the gangs).

-It makes normal clothing almost entirely useless since what's the point of owning normal clothes if you can only wear it two days a week?

-Uniforms would promote violence, since many people don't like the idea of school uniforms, so more people would shoot up school board meetings, from political activists who are against school uniforms and willing to become martyrs for their beliefs against school uniforms.

-Sub-culture is not a bad thing, and not having uniforms allows students to explore both mainstream culture and sub-culture, should they wish to.


"Good" things that school uniforms can possibly bring:
-It eliminates the ability for students to choose their own clothing, because if it actually worked (which it wouldn't), it could in theory make it so that they have to wear the same thing everyday.

-It forces people to actually care about school pride, whereas normal schools that don't force school uniforms often do NOT require students to actually take "pride" in their school. But even this "pro" for school uniforms is a fallacy, since just because you wear a uniform depicting something, doesn't necessarily mean you support it.
 
It'd never be popular in the states. Though, my old middle school adopted a simple khaki's + colored polo uniform that my younger brother went through, I really doubt that did much.

I don't think they are a cure to problems, but they are probably beneficial in that kids have one less thing to be stressed over, and it also makes the deans' job a bit easier. Also, a lot of uniforms do look pretty good. Giving students ugly uniforms kind of defeats the purpose of them, since they are supposed to feel and look professional.

And do you really want kids thinking clothing expresses their individuality? Walk into any highschool and report back what you see.
 
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[quote name='Dreadnought10']Most people in the world disapprove of the concept of school uniforms existing in public schools...[/QUOTE]

How did you come to this conclusion? China is the most populated country, and schools over there have uniforms... public or private. So does Japan, Taiwan, etc. Should I go on? (I'd want to research India a bit also.) Regardless, if you add up those numbers from the Asian countries, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get to half of the students in the world. And since I don't hear an uproar about the uniforms, then I'm curious upon what basis you drew that assumption.
 
# of students doesn't really equal how accepted it is throughout the world. I'd be more curious as to how many countries are very supportive of it.

It is pretty common though, not sure about Europe.
 
-It eliminates the ability for students to choose their own clothing, because if it actually worked (which it wouldn't), it could in theory make it so that they have to wear the same thing everyday.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what this says.
 
I'm kind of glad to be talking about a less serious topic even though this reminds me of fifth grade (where we had to write an essay on this)

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Students work better when they are able to choose their own attire.
[/QUOTE]

[citation needed]

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-This is one thing that separates public schools from private schools, since private (often religious) schools have them, and public schools don't. If you want your son/daughter to wear a uniform, you send them to a private school, if not, then don't.[/QUOTE]

What? The whole idea about uniforms is that it levels the playing field and makes everybody equal (which hopefully leads to students focusing on their schoolwork not whether Joe Q Public's stupid kids are wearing either hand me downs or a $150 pair of Nikes)

People forcing their kids to wear hand me downs or goodwill clothes can't magically afford to send their kids to private school.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-It gives students the ability to express themselves in a healthy and non-violent manner.[/QUOTE]

Can't they also do this by choosing what clubs/electives/extra-curricular activities they take part in? (if we are talking about Junior High/High School, I don't think this applies to elementary school kids)

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Uniforms repress and punish individuality.[/QUOTE]

No, it doesn't. Your clothes don't make you who you are.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Students who wear uniforms often find them uncomfortable.[/QUOTE]

[citation needed]

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-It's unnecessary totalitarianism and a limitation of freedoms.[/QUOTE]

Not really. How much freedom do kids have anyways?

Also again the whole "make everybody equal, focus on studies" thing.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Uniforms have proven[/QUOTE]

what?

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Uniforms do not prevent bullying.[/QUOTE]

And? That isn't the only goal of them.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-No one would listen to the rule, because you can't give someone freedom their entire life, and then just take it away, students, especially in high school, would just ignore the rule.[/QUOTE]

What? That wouldn't happen. The administration would say anybody who doesn't follow the dress code gets suspended, a few rebels decide to get suspended, everybody else falls in line, the rebels eventually fall in line when they realize they are the odd man out and the rule isn't changing.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-If such a rule was ever passed, it would start protesting, riots, and rebellion. I've witnessed this first-hand when the school board of a district in my area tried to pass a rule requiring uniforms, and many students and parents protested and started a petition, banning the passage of their uniform rule.[/QUOTE]

Riots? lol You highly underestimate how much most teenagers are complete sheep when it comes to stupid rules. Students and parents protest and start a petition? The administration doesn't care, kids/parents eventually fall into line when faced with punishment.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Uniforms are often expensive, more expensive than normal clothing. Also, bear in mind that it is not required to have the latest and greatest most popular fashion.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so and again, the idea is to equal everybody out.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Most students dress appropriately anyway, and most responsible school boards do have some minor guidelines prohibiting too revealing or inappropriate clothing from being worn (i.e. coming to school in your underwear, or wearing a shirt that advocates using meth).[/QUOTE]

So, what does it matter? They are already stepping on your freedoms MANNNNNN. How can you express yourself with a dress code in place?!? Who are they to say I can't dye my hair green or shave my hair into horns like the guy from Mudvayne?
And yes I did the horns idea when I was younger...I lasted two days before I realized how stupid they were

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Uniforms wouldn't stop gangs if such gangs existed (there are no gangs in my area, so I wouldn't know much about that). Assigning a uniform would just be trying to blanket the gang issue, instead of getting to the heart of the problem (putting an end to the gangs).[/QUOTE]

You really don't understand the idea behind school uniforms.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Uniforms would promote violence, since many people don't like the idea of school uniforms, so more people would shoot up school board meetings, from political activists who are against school uniforms and willing to become martyrs for their beliefs against school uniforms.[/QUOTE]

LOL really? People will kill and die over the right to wear their Paramore shirt to school?

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-Sub-culture is not a bad thing, and not having uniforms allows students to explore both mainstream culture and sub-culture, should they wish to.[/QUOTE]

Which distracts them from the thing that they are there for...learning/studying.

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-It eliminates the ability for students to choose their own clothing, because if it actually worked (which it wouldn't), it could in theory make it so that they have to wear the same thing everyday.[/QUOTE]

Never heard of somebody buying more than one of something? Also if you think that would be a protest (wearing the same clothes every day) if wouldn't be long before you went from "wow, he's fighting the man" to "wow, he smells like shit...get away from us"

[quote name='Dreadnought10']-It forces people to actually care about school pride, whereas normal schools that don't force school uniforms often do NOT require students to actually take "pride" in their school. But even this "pro" for school uniforms is a fallacy, since just because you wear a uniform depicting something, doesn't necessarily mean you support it.[/QUOTE]

No, it doesn't force people to have school pride.

----------

Teenage rage against the machine is so cute. High school and/or any school is no big deal, you will graduate and forget almost everything about it.
 
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When I think of kids in school uniforms i think of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bvT-DGcWw

I remember back in grade school thinking how horrible it would be for everyone to have to wear a uniform, almost as if it were a prison for kids, and school sometimes feels that way anyway. Individuality is important, having everyone dress alike strips a little of that away from the kids. It's bad enough having to do it for a job when you're older, let the kids dress how they want. Doing this to stop the fighting over clothes and shit is ridiculous, it isn't even addressing the problem.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']How did you come to this conclusion? China is the most populated country, and schools over there have uniforms... public or private. So does Japan, Taiwan, etc. Should I go on? (I'd want to research India a bit also.) Regardless, if you add up those numbers from the Asian countries, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get to half of the students in the world. And since I don't hear an uproar about the uniforms, then I'm curious upon what basis you drew that assumption.[/QUOTE]

Most Indian schools have uniforms as well.
 
Most schools (public and private) here in Dubai have Uniforms, I never had a problem with mine, it was actually pretty comfortable, simple navy blue pants, and lighter blue button down shirt, black shoes (not necessarily dress shoes). Different cultures I guess. No one here has a problem with them
 
IMO school uniforms are oppressive. I agree with Clak's views. I also don't understand how fastdiver82 could state unequivocally that "No one here has a problem with them" unless you know every single person in the UAE's views on the matter.

Maybe what you meant is that most people who you know do not object to them.

Getting to dress how you want is a freedom. Women voting and having the right to work is also a freedom. Some middle-eastern countries (Iran for one) do not afford their women that right, yet I would wager that MOST people there don't object to that way of life.

It isn't until you give somebody a freedom, and then try to take it away, that one can trully appreciate how they feel about it.

I for one appreciate freedom. I do not think the advantages of uniforms, (if any) outweigh the disadvantages of having that freedom taken away.

AMERICANS LOVE FREEDOM. We value it over our own safety sometimes. It's important to us, and I think if you take away kids right to dress how they want, then it is more likely that other freedoms will be taken away as well.
 
I remember being picked on at times in school because my family tended to buy 'off brand' clothes(aka Kmart special and not the 'name brand' of that time) and shoes for me to go to school with.

So school uniforms would at least negate some of this form of bullying by putting everyone on the same level as far as clothing is concerned.

I see nothing wrong with it, as long as it's a policy adopted across all schools in a district.
 
@Pittpizza2
Maybe I should clarify my statement, because your point is valid. Having visited almost every school in Dubai to play Soccer/Basketball against them, I have found that in most student bodies no one minds wearing uniforms.It saves them time in the morning, prevents bullying due to the clothes one is wearing and gives the school an identity, for example I know everyone who goes to Dubai College wears either a White Shirt with Black pant or a Blue shirt with Black pants (depending on their grade), everyone going to my school wears the Light Blue with Navy Blue shirt/pants combo. I should note here that none of the uniforms in Dubai are incredibly formal, some schools have ties but most don’t usually it’s just a button down shirt un-tucked; with some color of pants and black shoes.

It gives them a sense of school spirit. For example, most people who graduate from a High School here, will usually get all his/her friends to sign a spare uniform shirt they have (I have one and I know most people do it. Yes this time I know a lot of students in different schools who have corroborated this information). It's a memory of your time spent in the school and the friends you made there. No one gives it a second thought here (yes I’m stating in general again)

As for the freedoms afforded to people, I have two questions in rebuttal to your statements: A) Are you really comparing having the right to wear whatever you want to school to a Woman's right to vote and work? Surely the latter is a tiny bit more important? B) I quote “I think if you take away kids right to dress how they want, then it is more likely that other freedoms will be taken away as well.” What other freedoms do you think are going to be taken away after a uniform is “enforced” on the kids?
Personally if everyone in a district could agree on a uniform, than I see no problem with it.


I would also like to state in general (though this probably isn’t the thread for it) that I am sick of people bringing up the oppression people face in Iran and Saudi Arabia every time they want to make a point about the Middle East. It would be like me always using examples from intolerant Red Necks and Gang Members to make my point. Does oppression exist in the Middle East? Yes in two countries, a fraction of the Population in the entire region. Is it Ok? Off course not! But understand that this is barely a representative of what happens in most countries in the region. Anyone can work in the U.A.E. as long as they are over the age of 18. It’s the same in Qatar, Jordan, Bahrain and Syria (just to name a few countries). Women have been able to vote (where applicable) for the last 10 years (if not more) and progress is still being made.

How this relates to Uniforms I have no idea, you brought it up, though I think you were just trying to give an example of freedoms that do not exist in the region.

I posted this bit in a spoiler tag because it's slightly off topic
I look forward to your coherent response whenever you are unbanned.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']So school uniforms would at least negate some of this form of bullying by putting everyone on the same level as far as clothing is concerned.[/QUOTE]

Never, ever doubt a child's capacity for cruelty. I went to a uniformed school and people got ragged on for the wrong haircuts, jackets, shoes, socks, etc. That said I am still pro-uniforms for private schools.

Corollary: Clip-on ties are basically weapons in the right hands.
 
[quote name='cochesecochese']Never, ever doubt a child's capacity for cruelty. I went to a uniformed school and people got ragged on for the wrong haircuts, jackets, shoes, socks, etc. That said I am still pro-uniforms for private schools.

Corollary: Clip-on ties are basically weapons in the right hands.[/QUOTE]
I don't doubt it. I saw and suffered through some of the same teasing. But it seems like kids nowadays are too f'n emo to where they'll off themselves if one of their peers says the wrong thing about them.

Back when I was in school if someone teased me I'd put up with it for a while and then I'd just snap n slam them into a locker, possibly head first.:D;)

As for clip on ties, that's all I ever wore when I went to Catholic school(for one year before I got kicked out cuz I was a bad monkey:razz:).
 
[quote name='fastdiver82']A) Are you really comparing having the right to wear whatever you want to school to a Woman's right to vote and work? Surely the latter is a tiny bit more important? B) I quote “I think if you take away kids right to dress how they want, then it is more likely that other freedoms will be taken away as well.” What other freedoms do you think are going to be taken away after a uniform is “enforced” on the kids?

I look forward to your coherent response whenever you are unbanned.[/QUOTE]

Okay that account was banned because it was a duplicate. I had some technical difficulties getting into my old account (this one) but got it sorted.

A) Absolutely Yes, I am comparing them. Am I saying they're the same, asbolutely not. Surely we agree that women's suffrage and rights are more important than a childs right to dress how he wants. Still, this doesn't mean that a childs, and young adult's really, right to dress how they choose is not important at all. It is. It absolutely is important. Maybe I like a band, or feel really comfortable wearing hoodies, or like purple, or whatever. If the school, (which is really the government), tells me I can't do that, and I have to dress this way, and they don't have compelling reasons why (I don't believe there are) then this is wrong. This is oppresive. This is unjust and too controlling.

B) I like how you put "enforced' in quotes. What would happen if you didn't wear a uniform to a school that required it? If you would be punished, and forced to wear the uniform, is this not enforcement? Is there a prettier word for when a government makes people follow their laws? Here we call that "law enforcement", or "enforcing" a school policy.

You make a good point here. You argue that we can get off this slippery slope. That we can just draw the line at school uniforms and stop there. Maybe we can get off the slope and it wont eek into other freedoms. I worry that at least attitudinally it would change us. It would make us more conformist. It eliminates diversity, even if it is only diversity of garb, and I believe diversity is good. I sort of believe that everything you do leaves a mark on your soul, and I would prefer the type of souls that get to choose how they want to dress, those who are free from having their schools force them to wear the same thing. The other freedoms that this policy would but into is young adult's feedoms of expression, the freedom of indivuality by controlling your physical appearance, the front you present to the outside world. The freedom to be yourself through dress. What if you have some sick as style, and just KNOW you would win best dressed in the yearbook if you could only choose your own clothes. That wasnt me but that would suck.

Honestly watch that "another brick in the wall" video that clak posted. Look up the lyrics. They make the argument through song much better than I can. It just feels wrong.

Good points have been made here about kids being cruel and suffering bullying despite wearing uniforms. The movie Kite Runner is a true story where a young lowerclass boy gets raped by some upperclass kids. They're all wearing the same uniform. I don't buy that uniforms promote equality or eliminate getting made fun of for kmart clothes. Lots of rich people dress ridiculously anyway. In my highschool lots of kids caught shit for wearing fancy expensive stuff.

Also I compared Iran because it has a pretty bad track record for civil rights and it was the first example that came to my head. Sorry if I offended.
 
"Looking at both sides" begins with a one-sided sensationalist piece. I like it.

Pros:
* Levels out the clothing inequity majorly, but not entirely (because let's be honest, the kids get the clothing bias from their idiot parents)

* One less thing for teachers and students to get their "panties in a twist" over

* Lots of children's laundry blows


Cons:

* You're trying to turn children into drones

* Unless you're magically giving them the Doug Funny treatment, I can't imagine how much the school has to pay out to get multiple uniforms
 
[quote name='Dreadnought10'].[/QUOTE]

i read your other threads. pretty goddamn funny. did they take your thread posting privileges or are we going to have some more discussions?
 
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