Scientology... with your host, Tom Cruise

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SPIEGEL: Do you see it as your job to recruit new followers for Scientology?

Cruise: I'm a helper. For instance, I myself have helped hundreds of people get off drugs. In Scientology, we have the only successful drug rehabilitation program in the world. It's called Narconon.

SPIEGEL: That's not correct. Yours is never mentioned among the recognized detox programs. Independent experts warn against it because it is rooted in pseudo science."



http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,353577,00.html

Um, the only successful drug rehabilitation program? Scientology creeps me out the more I know about it... the way some of their followers speak really is creepy, definitely not helping the brainwashing claim...
 
[quote name='valor19']How about we just all agree that all of it (including Scientology) is just a bunch of shit?[/QUOTE]
Sounds good to me.
 
[quote name='valor19']How about we just all agree that all of it (including Scientology) is just a bunch of shit?[/QUOTE]

That would be my basic point, if you want to bash scientolgy I'm sure you can also find plenty of holes in Mormonism, Catholicism, Christianity and most religions in general.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']That would be my basic point, if you want to bash scientolgy I'm sure you can also find plenty of holes in Mormonism, Catholicism, Christianity and most religions in general.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but most established religions aren't geared towards making their leaders rich off of the followers. They mostly try to make the institution itself rich... Like the government.

Scientology irks people initially because many of their 'religious texts' are secret, and their lawyers make sure the general public can't see them. You have to be a certain "level" to see them, and to get to the different "levels", you have to pay thousands of dollars for these made up "tests".

Anyone whos objectively looked into scientology can see that its a giant load of horse shit. They tried to recruit Elvis, and even he could see that they just wanted his money and to use his fame for their own purposes. I'll be the first one to bash just about any established religion for their failings. This isn't about theological holes, like some in the bible, this is out and out fraud.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Yeah but most established religions aren't geared towards making their leaders rich off of the followers. They mostly try to make the institution itself rich... Like the government.

Scientology irks people initially because many of their 'religious texts' are secret, and their lawyers make sure the general public can't see them. You have to be a certain "level" to see them, and to get to the different "levels", you have to pay thousands of dollars for these made up "tests".

Anyone whos objectively looked into scientology can see that its a giant load of horse shit. They tried to recruit Elvis, and even he could see that they just wanted his money and to use his fame for their own purposes. I'll be the first one to bash just about any established religion for their failings. This isn't about theological holes, like some in the bible, this is out and out fraud.[/QUOTE]

So explain to me the difference between this and the church of latter day saints?
 
What's weird is seeing Scientologists "measure your stress" in Times Square. They have these machines that supposedly detect things that no other scientists can confirm to even exist. Go Midichlorians!

What aggravates me about Scientology is their bastardization of actual, confirmable science. That's not to say every thing they teach is totally bunk (I can't say that since I don't know all of what they teach... which is at their descretion and your bank account) but their practices are definitely shady.
 
Wasn't Scientology created on a bet? In that one of Hubbard's friends quite literally said, "I bet you can't establish your own religion," and he took the challenge?

I could be wrong; this is what I heard from one of my professors a few semesters ago and I never researched it any further.
 
[quote name='Ledhed']Wasn't Scientology created on a bet? In that one of Hubbard's friends quite literally said, "I bet you can't establish your own religion," and he took the challenge?

I could be wrong; this is what I heard from one of my professors a few semesters ago and I never researched it any further.[/QUOTE]

And wasn't mormonism created by a man with supposed texts that no one is allowed to see? Remember even the ancient jews of isreal only allowed those certain sects to see their holy documents.;)
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']So explain to me the difference between this and the church of latter day saints?[/QUOTE]
I have my problems with the Mormons too, not people that are Mormons but the founding of the religion, and the coverups by present Mormons, particularly about things like the Mountain Meadows Massacre, how Brigham Young routinely ordered people murdered, and the way that they ran things in Utah. There was this great site that had a lot of information, but I can't seem to find it right now. One of his top henchmen wrote a book in the 1800s about how they'd murder people for him.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I have my problems with the Mormons too, not people that are Mormons but the founding of the religion, and the coverups by present Mormons, particularly about things like the Mountain Meadows Massacre, how Brigham Young routinely ordered people murdered, and the way that they ran things in Utah. There was this great site that had a lot of information, but I can't seem to find it right now. One of his top henchmen wrote a book in the 1800s about how they'd murder people for him.[/QUOTE]
These are both relatively recent religions, would you be at all surprised to find this sort of behavior in the history of any western religion?
 
[quote name='Ledhed']Wasn't Scientology created on a bet? In that one of Hubbard's friends quite literally said, "I bet you can't establish your own religion," and he took the challenge?

I could be wrong; this is what I heard from one of my professors a few semesters ago and I never researched it any further.[/QUOTE]

L Ron Hubbard stole Jack Parson's girl and money, and ran off to form his own cult by mixing occult rituals with his own bad science fiction. Parsons worked for Nasa and developed a revolutionary form of solid rocket fuel (nicknamed "Greek Fire", an obvious nod to alchemy), and used this money to pursue his occult interests. If you ask me, Parsons is the more interesting character as Werner von Braun even admitted that he was the true father of the American Space Program, but his religion and occult experiments were so radical that Nasa would rather leave him shrouded in mystery (they erected a statue and named a crater on the dark side of the moon for him, that's about it as far as I can tell)

Hubbard bores me greatly, and from what I have read his behavior seems to be borderline sociopathic.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']I find it odd how people are so willing to gang up on scientology yet fail to look at the gaps in their own religious teachings.[/QUOTE]

Scientology in general: http://www.xenu.net/
OT III - the big secret: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/
A survivor's account: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/xenu/index.html

Scientology is not a religion. It's the world's best-organized, self-perpetuating scam. L. Ron Hubbard decided to dub it a religion simply for the tax exempt status.
 
Just you you know: at some point in your life, you will be offered a "free personality test". That test only has one possible result: you need a course in communication. Which is pretty much an introduction to scientology. Of course, none of this is mentioned when you are offered the test - sometimes, the people offering it don't even know about it themselves.
 
The only thing that bothers me about scientology is the lawyer aspect. If not for that, they're no more kooky than any other cult out there. It actually makes sense for celebrities to join. It's a lot cheaper to level up in scientology than it is to tithe in Judeo-Christian religions when you have their pay scale.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']I find it odd how people are so willing to gang up on scientology yet fail to look at the gaps in their own religious teachings.[/QUOTE]

What about people like me that have no religious affliation?
 
[quote name='jmcc']The only thing that bothers me about scientology is the lawyer aspect. If not for that, they're no more kooky than any other cult out there. It actually makes sense for celebrities to join. It's a lot cheaper to level up in scientology than it is to tithe in Judeo-Christian religions when you have their pay scale.[/QUOTE]

There's alot more that one can legitimately be bothered about. Anything from the brainwashing sessions to the next bad Travolta movie.
 
I once talked to a scientologist at a fair, as he was recruiting there. He was trying to convince me to join, by telling me all the famous people in the religion, like im gonna drop my religion cause Tom Cruise, and Rosie O' Donnel says so
 
[quote name='jmcc']The only thing that bothers me about scientology is the lawyer aspect. If not for that, they're no more kooky than any other cult out there. It actually makes sense for celebrities to join. It's a lot cheaper to level up in scientology than it is to tithe in Judeo-Christian religions when you have their pay scale.[/QUOTE]

Read the last link I posted. You'll have a lot more to bother you.
 
[quote name='camoor']There's alot more that one can legitimately be bothered about. Anything from the brainwashing sessions to the next bad Travolta movie.[/QUOTE]

Brainwashing my ass. (talk about pseudoscience)

The US government tried pursuing brainwashing from a scientific perspective. You know what they came up with?, LSD, and it was dubbed a failure.
 
[quote name='chunk']Brainwashing my ass. (talk about pseudoscience)

The US government tried pursuing brainwashing from a scientific perspective. You know what they came up with?, LSD, and it was dubbed a failure.[/QUOTE]

Says the christian who thinks creationism is a valid scientific theory.
 
It may not be brainwashing in the stric sense we would like to impose on the term, but any religion attempts to "re-educate" their followers. This is why in my hometown a professor was essentially forced to resign from a RCA-affiliated college because he published articles supporting gays.
 
[quote name='camoor']At least scientologists don't push for public school kids to goto sunday schools or take classes about the bible.[/QUOTE]

Yet
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Yeah but most established religions aren't geared towards making their leaders rich off of the followers. They mostly try to make the institution itself rich... Like the government.[/QUOTE]


:rofl::rofl:

So... thats why the Pope wears silk robes and carrys a gold staff?

By asking for 10% of your income, the Catholic church is showing they don't want your money?
 
[quote name='eldad9']Scientology in general: http://www.xenu.net/
OT III - the big secret: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/
A survivor's account: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/xenu/index.html

Scientology is not a religion. It's the world's best-organized, self-perpetuating scam. L. Ron Hubbard decided to dub it a religion simply for the tax exempt status.[/QUOTE]

A scam? I'd say that's pretty obvious.:lol:
What isn't obvious is how this scam in any different from the worlds established religions.

From your first link:

[font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][font=ARIAL,HELVETICA]The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.[/font][/font]

Change the word money to power and Scientology really just looks like a new take on a very old practice.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Ummm, :lol:[/QUOTE]

You just wait until TOm cruise is hired as a teacher at your local high school. You'll see, YOU'LL SEE! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']A scam? I'd say that's pretty obvious.:lol:
What isn't obvious is how this scam in any different from the worlds established religions.

From your first link:

[font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][font=ARIAL,HELVETICA]The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.[/font][/font]

Change the word money to power and Scientology really just looks like a new take on a very old practice.[/QUOTE]

Oh snap! Nietzsche!!
 
[quote name='Kayden']:rofl::rofl:

So... thats why the Pope wears silk robes and carrys a gold staff?

By asking for 10% of your income, the Catholic church is showing they don't want your money?[/QUOTE]

Some abuse their priveledge when recieving people's money but the tithing (sp?) is desgined to go back into the church itself, not to the leaders, just like he said. Also, do you think the pope rolls up to the jewelry store and places an order for his personalized blinging gold staff, then pays in cash or puts it on his Mastercard?
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']You just wait until TOm cruise is hired as a teacher at your local high school. You'll see, YOU'LL SEE! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!![/QUOTE]

That was towards your bible comment, I'm sure he would have plenty of their special phamphlets to hand out.
 
[quote name='jmcc']I think maybe he confuses Hollywood movie brainwashing with the reality of it.

edit: a recent Straight Dope article sheds light on it: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/050318.html[/QUOTE]

Ummm, that article is exactly what I said. To summarize, the idea of brainwashing was created by the media. The reality is that there is no such thing, just unethical forms of persuasion that we are already familiar with (like putting a gun to someone's head, or plain old torture). The US government tried to create real brainwashing, but ended up creating LSD (which doesn't work for brainwashing).

If you want to call physically forcing someone into compliance brainwashing then fine. In that case the police exercise brainwashing on a daily basis.

[quote name='eldad9']You're not seriously suggesting there's no such thing as brainwashing, are you?[/QUOTE]

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. What makes you think there is such a thing as brainwashing?

[quote name='camoor']Says the christian who thinks creationism is a valid scientific theory.[/QUOTE]

That's a lie and you know it. Why do you want to spread misinformation?

[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']It may not be brainwashing in the stric sense we would like to impose on the term, but any religion attempts to "re-educate" their followers. This is why in my hometown a professor was essentially forced to resign from a RCA-affiliated college because he published articles supporting gays.[/QUOTE]

How is that any different from anything else taught in public schools?

There are always people that are trying to persuade other people, sometimes with unethical or even brutal means, but that doesn't make it brainwashing. In fact, many of us are trying to persuade each other in this thread right now, but I would hardly say that there is any brainwashing going on. We are all rational individuals that make our own decisions.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Some abuse their priveledge when recieving people's money but the tithing (sp?) is desgined to go back into the church itself, not to the leaders, just like he said. Also, do you think the pope rolls up to the jewelry store and places an order for his personalized blinging gold staff, then pays in cash or puts it on his Mastercard?[/QUOTE]

Instead he uses his power to convince millions that they shouldn't use condoms. It's the same old song and dance, scientology simply wants their power in a more readily useable form.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']That was towards your bible comment, I'm sure he would have plenty of their special phamphlets to hand out.[/QUOTE]

Well, I thought it was assumed that they wouldn't be using Bibles :cool:
 
[quote name='chunk']

How is that any different from anything else taught in public schools?
[/QUOTE]

Well, any good public school presents ideas and teaches the students to think about them. Religion is based on faith, and faith requires that you don't think. You cannot prove something by faith. It's very different.
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']Well, I thought it was assumed that they wouldn't be using Bibles :cool:[/QUOTE]

:lol: I think you could have turned it a bit better.
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']Well, any good public school presents ideas and teaches the students to think about them. Religion is based on faith, and faith requires that you don't think. You cannot prove something by faith. It's very different.[/QUOTE]

Oh god no! You have no idea what you've just gotten yourself into. :rofl:
 
[quote name='chunk']That is exactly what I'm suggesting. What makes you think there is such a thing as brainwashing?[/QUOTE]

So, if not brainwashing, what's keeping people in cults? Or, how'd Jim Jones/Charles Manson/Marshall Applewhite get a bunch of people to commit suicide/kill?
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']Well, any good public school presents ideas and teaches the students to think about them. Religion is based on faith, and faith requires that you don't think. You cannot prove something by faith. It's very different.[/QUOTE]

:applause:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by camoor
Says the christian who thinks creationism is a valid scientific theory.



That's a lie and you know it. Why do you want to spread misinformation?
Click to expand...

So you're not christian? Or you're not supporting creationism?

Either way, please close out the creationism vs evolution thread. I dont even know what you were arguing, but if you're for teaching evolution then we're on the same side on that issue.
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']I welcome all comers. Bring it! :booty:[/QUOTE]

We will see how much spunk you've got left in you after a few days.:lol:
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']We will see how much spunk you've got left in you after a few days.:lol:[/QUOTE]

Oh Zion, you know how much "spunk" I've got ;) But back to the matter at hand, I'll take rational facts over superstitions any day.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']We will see how much spunk you've got left in you after a few days.:lol:[/QUOTE]

Perhaps he will succeed where others have failed. Perhaps he can penetrate the wall of ignorance.

Or perhaps I won't be spending much time in this thread. :lol:
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']Oh Zion, you know how much "spunk" I've got ;) But back to the matter at hand, I'll take rational facts over superstitions any day.[/QUOTE]

But internet spunk is of a completely different nature.;)

I agree with you on rational facts I simply don't want to see you waste hours of your life debating what a ratjional fact is.:lol:
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Perhaps he will succeed where others have failed. Perhaps he can penetrate the wall of ignorance.

Or perhaps I won't be spending much time in this thread. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Well you could join me and my crusade to help scientology become an accepted religion, afterall it doesn't seem to be that much more nutty than mormonism.
 
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