Scores of Boy Scouts fall ill from heat, waiting for Bush to arrive

E-Z-B

E-Z-B

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Posted on Wed, Jul. 27, 2005
Scores of Boy Scouts fall ill from heat
MICHAEL FELBERBAUM
Associated Press

BOWLING GREEN, Va. - Scores of Boy Scouts were sickened by the heat Wednesday while waiting for President Bush to arrive at a memorial service for four Scout leaders who were killed while pitching a tent beneath a power line.

The president's visit to the Scout Jamboree at Fort A.P. Hill was postponed because of the threat of severe thunderstorms and strong winds. Instead, Bush is scheduled to visit the gathering Thursday.

But before the president's appearance was called off, many Scouts fell ill from temperatures that rose into the upper 90s, made worse by high humidity.

Soldiers carried Boy Scouts on stretchers to the base hospital, about three miles from the event arena, and some were airlifted from the Jamboree.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12239181.htm?

So Bush's visit was postponed due to the threat of "severe thunderstorms"? More likely, it was postponed due to the ruined photo op.

(BTW - the storms weren't that bad in DC that Bush couldn't make the event. And he has yet to make the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.)
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']Posted on Wed, Jul. 27, 2005
Scores of Boy Scouts fall ill from heat
MICHAEL FELBERBAUM
Associated Press

BOWLING GREEN, Va. - Scores of Boy Scouts were sickened by the heat Wednesday while waiting for President Bush to arrive at a memorial service for four Scout leaders who were killed while pitching a tent beneath a power line.

The president's visit to the Scout Jamboree at Fort A.P. Hill was postponed because of the threat of severe thunderstorms and strong winds. Instead, Bush is scheduled to visit the gathering Thursday.

But before the president's appearance was called off, many Scouts fell ill from temperatures that rose into the upper 90s, made worse by high humidity.

Soldiers carried Boy Scouts on stretchers to the base hospital, about three miles from the event arena, and some were airlifted from the Jamboree.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12239181.htm?

So Bush's visit was postponed due to the threat of "severe thunderstorms"? More likely, it was postponed due to the ruined photo op.

(BTW - the storms weren't that bad in DC that Bush couldn't make the event. And he has yet to make the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.)[/QUOTE]


1. Why would a boy scout troop be camping anywhere that had power lines?
2. Where were the parents and leaders that should have been sheparding the kids and making sure they stayed hydrated?
 
[quote name='JSweeney']1. Why would a boy scout troop be camping anywhere that had power lines?
2. Where were the parents and leaders that should have been sheparding the kids and making sure they stayed hydrated?[/QUOTE]

It is the Boy Scouts, not the Cub Scouts.
Cub Scouts require shepards, Boy Scouts (technically) run the show themselves.
The adults are there as a back up for the older (boy) leadership.

You can lead a horse to water . . .

Granted, the adults will get blamed.

I have been a leader for almost 10 years and it is always your fault.
You can put the bottle of water in their hand, and they'll set it down and forget about it.
 
It is the Boy Scouts, not the Cub Scouts.
Cub Scouts require shepards, Boy Scouts (technically) run the show themselves.
The adults are there as a back up for the older (boy) leadership.

I'd agree to that, but there is a real difference between the boys when the just come into Boy Scouts and when they're later in. If it were a group of older boys, or an Explorer or Varsity crew, then I'd understand more. But the difference between a kid in Webelos and a kid that's new to scouts is not that marked that they deserve free reign.

You can lead a horse to water . . .
But was that the case? Was water provided? Available?
If it was, and the kids decided not to, that's one thing... if it wasn't, that was a major foible on the part of the leadership.
I mean, the entire time I had been in Boy Scouts, I had never been dehydrated.
Violently ill, a concusion or two, a few cuts, bruises, etc... but never dehydrated.

Granted, the adults will get blamed.

As they should. It really doesn't look like proper planning with a fallback scenario was done here. Every outing or even that I've worked with, planned or helped on, there was a fallback scenario... even if I had to create and implement it myself.


I have been a leader for almost 10 years and it is always your fault.

Of course it is. That's the tacit understanding most parents have when they release thier children to you. Of course, some are a tad bit more reasonable than others.

You can put the bottle of water in their hand, and they'll set it down and forget about it.

Which is why you pull your group of boys aside, check in on them, and make sure that the do drink at least something. You are the adult here... even if the boys don't want to listen.
 
I'd agree to that, but there is a real difference between the boys when the just come into Boy Scouts and when they're later in. If it were a group of older boys, or an Explorer or Varsity crew, then I'd understand more. But the difference between a kid in Webelos and a kid that's new to scouts is not that marked that they deserve free reign.
Which again falls to the older boy leadership, to make sure the younger ones are is step.

Granted, the adults will get blamed.

As they should. It really doesn't look like proper planning with a fallback scenario was done here. Every outing or even that I've worked with, planned or helped on, there was a fallback scenario... even if I had to create and implement it myself.
Youch, a touchy subject it seems.
But which adults? The troop leader or the organizer of the event. Shit, just sue them all.

I agree with most of your points, it is the adult leader who is ultimately resonsible.
However, they do not deserve the finger pointing immediately, tho that is what they get.

From what info has been released, the tent was being put up in the dark, and they were told the location to set up. Wether they could see the power lines or not, I don't know.

Just curious what your experience is.
Obviously were a scout, but are you or have you been a leader?
Any kids of your own?

I leave next week with 12 boys to BSA Seabase in the FL Keys.
6 days of Sailing to Key West and back.

I've yet to make it to Philmont, tho possibly next year.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']1. Why would a boy scout troop be camping anywhere that had power lines?
2. Where were the parents and leaders that should have been sheparding the kids and making sure they stayed hydrated?[/QUOTE]
It was a national jamboree, it's a giant national convention for Boy Scouts, not a camping trip.

Water was readily available, but water alone cannot prevent heat related illness.

They were waiting for Bush to give a speech, and he backed out without notifying them.

The president always gives a speech at the National Jamborees (except Bush, who has backed out of 2 so far). The media said it was a memorial service, but they are lying. If I had a dollar for evertime the media lies about the Boy Scouts I wouldn't be at Cheapass Gamer.

(And about the electrical accident, the most important question is why wasn't the line insulated?)
 
Which again falls to the older boy leadership, to make sure the younger ones are is step.

The older boys in leadership should try to handle it, but the adult leadership should be good enough, and paying enough attention that they know when to step in. You don't want to completely coddle or control them, but you don't want the younger boys hurt either.


Youch, a touchy subject it seems.

Yeah, it somewhat it is. Helping with my brother troop, or at various camps, it becomes obvious that some of the higher ups seem to only look at "best case scenarios". I mean, I've seen terribly incomplete and near useful first aid kits, poorly laid out plans for campsites, etc.

But which adults? The troop leader or the organizer of the event. Shit, just sue them all.

If water and other facilites weren't available, the organizers have something they need to answer to. If they were there, but not used, then the youth leadership and thier adult counterparts have something to answer to.

I agree with most of your points, it is the adult leader who is ultimately resonsible.
However, they do not deserve the finger pointing immediately, tho that is what they get.

The troop leadership ends up being the face of Boy Scouts that the parents know.
Thus, they end up getting hit with the brunt of the complaints and fingerpointing, very often undeservedly so. Add in broken families, custody schedules and various other things that people end up raising a fuss over, and I'm surpised that Boy Scouts can still get leaders to volunteer at all.

From what info has been released, the tent was being put up in the dark, and they were told the location to set up. Wether they could see the power lines or not, I don't know.

That bothers me, though. If properly taught, even the youngest scout should know that the first thing you do when you set up camp is to search the area for any possible hazards and be aware of anything that could go wrong.

Just curious what your experience is.
Obviously were a scout, but are you or have you been a leader?

I ran or assisted on various events at Cub Day camp for 4 years, everything ranging from running the waterfront to running the archery and rifle ranges.
Currently, I'm volunteering every so often with by youngest brothers patrol when they need an extra leader (campouts, etc)

Any kids of your own?
Nope.
 
It was a national jamboree, it's a giant national convention for Boy Scouts, not a camping trip.

They had set up the tent by power lines at the national Jamboree?
Or had that happened previously?

Water was readily available, but water alone cannot prevent heat related illness.

Of course, but it seems like common sense would set in and you'd walk some of the kids back to an air conditioned car if you noticed them showing signs of illness.

They were waiting for Bush to give a speech, and he backed out without notifying them.

That bothers me quite a bit. I mean, the man has masses of aides to assist on all manner of duty. I mean really, couldn't one of them just shot off a phone call saying. "I'm sorry,but due to ... blah, blah, blah... the president will not be appearing.


The president always gives a speech at the National Jamborees (except Bush, who has backed out of 2 so far). The media said it was a memorial service, but they are lying. If I had a dollar for evertime the media lies about the Boy Scouts I wouldn't be at Cheapass Gamer.

Was it a lie or a misunderstanding? It does seem to minimize it if you just said it was a memorial service instead of a national jamboree.


Of course, it was a national jamboree makes the situation make quite a bit more sense. I still think that some of the leadership should have been trying to watch for signs of exhaustion more, but the fact that water and other necessities were available in the necessary quantities makes me feel a bit better about the situation.

(And about the electrical accident, the most important question is why wasn't the line insulated?)

One should know the site before setting up. That's fairly basic.
 
The troop leadership ends up being the face of Boy Scouts that the parents know.
Thus, they end up getting hit with the brunt of the complaints and fingerpointing, very often undeservedly so. Add in broken families, custody schedules and various other things that people end up raising a fuss over, and I'm surpised that Boy Scouts can still get leaders to volunteer at all.

It is frustrating. Mommy rips on a leader (boy or adult) about why johny didn't do his merit badges, when all johny wanted to do was eat candy and sit on his butt.

I just got back from summer camp with 28 boys, and they were the laziest group I've been with. We (adults), got them going and made sure then got where they needed to be the first two days, after that it is up to the scout. If they really don't want to do something, we are not going to force them.

We did make them get off their butts and get out of camp tho.
;)

From what info has been released, the tent was being put up in the dark, and they were told the location to set up. Wether they could see the power lines or not, I don't know.
That bothers me, though. If properly taught, even the youngest scout should know that the first thing you do when you set up camp is to search the area for any possible hazards and be aware of anything that could go wrong.

I agree, it was four (or more) adults hefting the center pole of a huge tent, right up into the power lines.

I ran or assisted on various events at Cub Day camp for 4 years, everything ranging from running the waterfront to running the archery and rifle ranges.
Currently, I'm volunteering every so often with by youngest brothers patrol when they need an extra leader (campouts, etc)
Kudos.
 
Bush's visit with Scouts put off again

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - President Bush's trip to the Boy Scout jamboree has been postponed again, a day after some 300 people at the national gathering were sickened while waiting for him in hot, humid weather.

Bush initially was to speak Wednesday at the Scout Jamboree at Fort A.P. Hill, an Army base in central Virginia about 75 miles south of Washington, where a memorial service was planned for four Scout leaders killed Monday while pitching a tent. Severe thunderstorms and strong winds caused Bush's visit to be rescheduled for Thursday evening.

But on Thursday morning, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said the Scouts had asked the president to put off his appearance yet again, until Sunday.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/breaking_news/12245578.htm
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']It was a national jamboree, it's a giant national convention for Boy Scouts, not a camping trip.

Water was readily available, but water alone cannot prevent heat related illness.

They were waiting for Bush to give a speech, and he backed out without notifying them.

The president always gives a speech at the National Jamborees (except Bush, who has backed out of 2 so far). The media said it was a memorial service, but they are lying. If I had a dollar for evertime the media lies about the Boy Scouts I wouldn't be at Cheapass Gamer.

(And about the electrical accident, the most important question is why wasn't the line insulated?)[/QUOTE]

I was in Richmond's airport Saturday when people were flying in for this, there were a ton of scouting uniforms. They had 40,000+ attending and also had 4 die due to an electrical accident Monday. It was all over the Richmond news, yeah, I was there over the weekend until Tuesday.

Quack is exactly right about the media portrayal of Scouting. He would indeed be a wealthy man if he had a dollar for every innacuracy reported about them.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I was in Richmond's airport Saturday when people were flying in for this, there were a ton of scouting uniforms. They had 40,000+ attending and also had 4 die due to an electrical accident Monday. It was all over the Richmond news, yeah, I was there over the weekend until Tuesday.

Quack is exactly right about the media portrayal of Scouting. He would indeed be a wealthy man if he had a dollar for every innacuracy reported about them.[/QUOTE]
:shock:

PAD and Quack actually agree on something!?

Is this the start of a new era?? :grouphug:
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']:shock:

PAD and Quack actually agree on something!?

Is this the start of a new era?? :grouphug:[/QUOTE]

It's the end of the world!

"Earthquakes and volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria!" :D
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']So Bush's visit was postponed due to the threat of "severe thunderstorms"? More likely, it was postponed due to the ruined photo op.

(BTW - the storms weren't that bad in DC that Bush couldn't make the event. And he has yet to make the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.)[/QUOTE]

Please be informed before you post. There were indeed severe thunderstorms in the DC area yesterday evening. I live in the DC area. Bush's speech was scheduled for 7:00 and the storms rolled in around 6:30. You guys are way, way too desperate to rip on Bush for the wackiest things. There's plenty of readily available ammunition already without resorting to crap like this, don't you think?
 
Awesome! Now that they took out all the homo's from Boy Scouts the higher ups are finally toughening them up! About freaking time if you ask me, damnit.

/end politically incorrect rant which should be funny to most, but offend at least one or two people
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Please be informed before you post. There were indeed severe thunderstorms in the DC area yesterday evening. I live in the DC area. Bush's speech was scheduled for 7:00 and the storms rolled in around 6:30. You guys are way, way too desperate to rip on Bush for the wackiest things. There's plenty of readily available ammunition already without resorting to crap like this, don't you think?[/QUOTE]

I live in the philly area, and the storms rolled in around 8:30. There were a few flashes of lightning, some cracks of thunder. But that's it.
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']I live in the philly area, and the storms rolled in around 8:30. There were a few flashes of lightning, some cracks of thunder. But that's it.[/QUOTE]

Good for you. But in the DC area, which is not too far from Fort A.P. Hill, there were SEVERE thunderstorms and it's not surprising the event got cancelled. But I guess if anything fits with your theory of "Bush is evil and trying to ruin the country"...
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Good for you. But in the DC area, which is not too far from Fort A.P. Hill, there were SEVERE thunderstorms and it's not surprising the event got cancelled. But I guess if anything fits with your theory of "Bush is evil and trying to ruin the country"...[/QUOTE]
Um, the event didn't get cancelled. The National Jamboree is the most important Scouting event in America.

Boy Scout events are never cancelled due to weather unless there is a hurricane or something of equal magnitude.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Um, the event didn't get cancelled. The National Jamboree is the most important Scouting event in America.

Boy Scout events are never cancelled due to weather unless there is a hurricane or something of equal magnitude.[/QUOTE]

I meant Bush's event. But I am still wrong because it just got PPD to Sunday.
 
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